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Karbo
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PostSubject: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:52 am

*crack knuckles*

Ok let's use that thread to make a list of things you think should be changed / revamped in Felarya or that needs some precision. It can can be something big and generic or just a specific detail. Please just go ahead if you have something in mind ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:45 am

Well, I've been waiting for this one for a while.

Well, the first thing I would change, and this is probably gonna sound weird, is this very thread. See, the problem with Felarya isn't so much a bunch of ideas that clash together, but in how it's managed, and that's something that can't be as easily quantified as a list. What you need to do, Karbo, is give us a clear-cut idea of how YOU view the setting, which direction YOU want the setting to go, and make it clear that this is the vision you have of Felarya to everybody. Not just us few forumites who stayed long enough to have something of a vague idea of what that vision is, but to everyone on both the forums and the deviantArt group. Don't just ask us to list a bunch of grievances to fix and cherry-pick the ones you like like you always do; it won't solve what is fundamentally broken with Felarya.

And for that to succeed, what we need is better quality control. In fact, what we need is quality control at all. The way things are managed, if you can call it that, most contributors on the dA group are probably under the impression that Felarya is still nothing but a chaotic jungle world where giant man-eating monster girls roam free and humans are just there as fodder, and no attempt as been made to clear away this misconception. Once - or rather, if - we can all get to a solid agreement of what the setting tones' and other quirks should be, this message should be broadcast to the entire dA community, and enforced.

One thing I propose is that we add guides for newbies. Less "This is how/what you should write", and more "Here are some tips you should take into consideration when writing and what you should avoid." The SCP Foundation wiki has an excellent guide for newcomers to the setting and I'll probably be using it as a template. It won't be just a guide for writers, but there will also be a guide for character creation and possible idea submission. That way, there will be no excuse if a hack writer uploads something that clearly violates the themes and the kind of tone we wish to establish.

Speaking of idea submission, like it was discussed in earlier threads, there should contributors with authority to approve or disapprove of ideas suggested, though Karbo will still retain ultimate authority over what gets in and what doesn't. I know you made it your resolution to be more involved, Karbs, but experience has taught me that new year's resolutions are meant to be broken, so consider this a contingent in case things beyond your control keep you away from the community for extended periods. These special contributors will have editing power the wiki, able to make changes to current articles and, possibly, create new articles for ideas that have been approved. To avoid special treatments, these editors would not have the power to delete articles to avoid editors spiting each other, nor create or edit character pages. Karbo will remain the sole person with authority to make changes, create or delete characters from the page. Editors will be free to alter pages related to articles related to their own characters, but editing others' will require special permission from Karbo, and to further avoid abuse, be limited solely to minor edits like fixing typos.

On the subject of the wiki, the first change I would make to Felarya is massive deletions. We have a ton of articles we could trim out or consolidate without any issue to make space for better ideas. The core races that have been a part of Felarya since its creation; Humans, Elves, Nekos, Nagas, Mermaids, Harpies, Dryads, Dridders, Elementals, Centaurs, Sphinxes, Fairies, Angels and Demons will be exempt from the edit. Popular races such as Tinies, Inus, Slug Girls and Mantoids, will also be exempt. The rest of the races, particularly the minor races, will be systematically examined by Karbo and a group of editors. Depending on how much they contribute to the setting, they will either be allowed to stay or be deleted. I already have a list of races and sub-races I think we could already trim out, but I'll talk more about it if we agree with that plan.

The other major thing I would change is the immortality granted by Felarya's soil. The concept worked great when Felarya was nothing but untamed wilderness, but with established civilizations all across the map, not just Negav, that can reliably defend themselves from predators, the question of a stagnant and ever-expanding population has only made the idea more obsolete. It is yet another result of an unwillingness to change something about the setting on the grounds that it's "what makes Felarya unique" and the fear of upsetting long-time contributors. What I propose is that we downplay the power of the soil. Instead of making a person essentially ageless, it drastically slows down aging, with humans starting to show signs of aging passed their primes around 80 years of age, and the average human lifespan in a safe environment being in the ballpark of 150 years old. This exact lifespan would change depending on the race and its environment. On the same token, the immunity to disease should be similarly downplayed to people being hardier to normal illnesses. If a plague suddenly swept a town, far fewer inhabitants would fall ill, and the majority of victims showcasing symptoms would merely be incapacitated and bedridden for a time with no real danger to their lives. The only casualties would primarily be the elderly and those with a weak constitution. Diseases spawn from unnatural means, such as magic, would be unaffected by the soil.

The last major change I would make is establish once and for all the average level of technology across Felarya. The more I'm reading stories, the more the elements of sci-fi and fantasy clash together due to a lack of a clear cut, general idea of the global technological level. I cannot begin to count how many times I've seen high technology in Felarya be used as a substitute for magic by doing super specific things, with a mage just standing right next to it that probably could have done the same thing, and how much the two concepts end up clashing. We need to establish a coherent and mostly consistent technological level across the known parts of the map, and once we have it, we need to enforce it. While I don't have a super concrete idea for it, I do have a ground rule that most firearms sold on Negav's open market are early firearms like muzzle-loaded matchlock rifles and blunderbusses, with 19th century old west firearms at the latest, the latter of which would be ridiculously expensive. Technology from exceptionally advanced factions like the Vishmitals and Othemites would be exceedingly rare and difficult to acquire for the average Negavian and adventurer even on the black market.


I have other things I would change, but these are, in my opinion, the biggest and most important changes I would personally make to Felarya and how it's managed. Once, or if, these changes I listed are implemented, then I'll talk more about less important changes I have in mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:27 am

Shady Knight wrote:

The other major thing I would change is the immortality granted by Felarya's soil.  The concept worked great when Felarya was nothing but untamed wilderness, but with established civilizations all across the map, not just Negav, that can reliably defend themselves from predators, the question of a stagnant and ever-expanding population has only made the idea more obsolete.  It is yet another result of an unwillingness to change something about the setting on the grounds that it's "what makes Felarya unique" and the fear of upsetting long-time contributors.  What I propose is that we downplay the power of the soil.  Instead of making a person essentially ageless, it drastically slows down aging, with humans starting to show signs of aging passed their primes around 80 years of age, and the average human lifespan in a safe environment being in the ballpark of 150 years old.  This exact lifespan would change depending on the race and its environment.  On the same token, the immunity to disease should be similarly downplayed to people being hardier to normal illnesses.  If a plague suddenly swept a town, far fewer inhabitants would fall ill, and the majority of victims showcasing symptoms would merely be incapacitated and bedridden for a time with no real danger to their lives.  The only casualties would primarily be the elderly and those with a weak constitution.  Diseases spawn from unnatural means, such as magic, would be unaffected by the soil.
It would be nice to keep immortality, but either way I think that it should be due to Felaryan biology instead of magical soil(I like it better, but it isn't cannon). With regards to Negav, the inhabitants can't just live their whole lives in the safety of the wall. The majority of the inhabitants will have to venture past the Isolon eye to forage for food, resources etc(Not everything can be obtained within the boundaries of the Isolon eye). Even most that do not stray outside of Negav, will eventually; either out of boredom of having done the same job for 100 years, or because their current employment has ended. I've always assumed that the guardians of Felarya would prevent any one species from over populating, so an ever expanding city would be doomed. This is evident by Negav's fear of expanding due to what happened to Urgasol. Also in Negav the amount of births would be much less to account for the longer lifespan. On a side note humans living outside of Negav or other civilization would probably have a much higher birth rate to account for their short lifespan. Pregnancy would also probably be shorter, and babies would develop faster.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:37 am

Having a different process of digestion/some different anatomy then real life would be nice. Digestion wouldn't have to be horrendously painful/disgusting, and prey would last longer than 10 seconds, before they drown/suffocate. Also their is alot of other things that would be nice to have work differently in Felarya.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:37 am

Well Karbo, If I may, I have a few things for you. In no particular order of course.

1. Will the story of the Tomes ever be finished? This is probably my biggest question for you. I can understand if you have no current plans to continue it, but if that is the case, I would pay almost anything to know how the story ends.

2. Is the cow girl from your last DA upload canon to Felarya?

3. Will there be any changes to how the Felarya wiki is run?

4. Will there be more detail to weapons/vehicles used in Felarya? (Something that has bothered me for quite a long time. I know that you can bring/have weapons from other worlds, but I've always been curious about the weapons and vehicles on the wiki)

5. Will we ever get to see Janslo arena (in Negav?) Its always been of interest to me, but has never been fully explored, and remains one of the ever-expanding mysteries of Felarya (out of universe).

6. Any plans to draw or expand upon the non-giantess preds? Like the carnivorous plants and other voracious creatures, such as that weird unicorn creature the fairies have.

7. Will there ever be a solid process for canonazation? Over the years, I have developed a rather intricate and complex theory/story around the top guardian Notys. Though I have been actually a little scared to share it publically.

8. Will Tidrek steel ever be shown in a drawing as to how it works and can be used? (Like, since it can self replicate, lets say you have a gun like here on Earth, and you mold the Tidrek steel into a bullet, would you then have a bunch of Tidrek steel bullets?) Sorry I can't think of a better question.

9. This kinda goes with 6 but will we ever get to see some more of the rarely-used species? Like Jotuns, Nemises (which are apparently mostly used for assasinations in Negav) Saurotaurans exc.

10. Will Lydus ever be drawn or expanded upon? I ask since it is needed to go to Felarya and seems like a very disordered and chaotic place. I think it might actually look a lot like the space Bill Cypher inhabits in Gravity Falls, a disordered and random dimension where anything can happen.

I have more questions of course, but for now these will be everything. I look forward to the replies! Thanks for making this thread Karbo, and here's hoping for good times for Felarya!
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:47 am

dragon808tr wrote:
Well Karbo, If I may, I have a few things for you. In no particular order of course.

1. Will the story of the Tomes ever be finished? This is probably my biggest question for you. I can understand if you have no current plans to continue it, but if that is the case, I would pay almost anything to know how the story ends.
2. Is the cow girl from your last DA upload canon to Felarya?

1. Karbo has plans to finish it.
2. As far as I am aware it is just a fun character that isn't related to Felarya. It doesn't really feel Felaryan and is completely different than all the other hybrids that Felarya has, so I doubt it was intended for Felarya. This is all up to Karbo though.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:52 am

That does not work.  First of all, you forget that Negav does not engage in hunting and gathering thanks to the Dimensional Gate allowing them to trade with other worlds.  Even without the gate, Negav is far, far too big of a city for hunting and gathering to be a viable income of food.  Hunting and gathering can only sustain a small community, not a metropolis whose inhabitants number in the hundreds of thousands.  You also completely ignore places like Kortiki, Kelerm and Chioita, which are all safe from predation in their own way.  Kortiki is in the middle of a neutral zone and its inhabitants live peacefully with fairies.  Hunters can thus benefit from the protection of fairies when leaving the zone to hunt.  Kelerm is practically isolated geographically, with a vast sea of quicksand to the south and sheer cliffs dropping directly into the ocean to the north.  Chioita has amicable ties with sapient predators as they offer them tribute with all the fishes they catch, making them largely safe.

Your reasoning that people will eventually leave the walls due to boredom or because their employment ended arbitrarily makes absolutely no sense.  How do you know for sure that will happen?  There's a reason why the simple solutions are often the best.  Instead of coming up with something convoluted just to keep somethings that doesn't work just to try to make it work, we should get rid of it and come up with something different.  Trying to compromise and pleasing everybody only to not please anybody is what got us in this situation in the first place.


And dragon, you did not list a single thing you wish to change, only what you want to see Karbo draw. Except for 7, which is not ever going to happen. People have been fighting for having their characters added in the wiki since the place was founded, and if you want my honest opinion, this was a mistake. I'll make this as clear as possible: me and Karbo over private messages on dA and we both agreed that we need to clean house. In other words, get rid of things about Felarya that don't work so that we can make sense of the place.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:55 am

Amethyst wrote:
dragon808tr wrote:
Well Karbo, If I may, I have a few things for you. In no particular order of course.

1. Will the story of the Tomes ever be finished? This is probably my biggest question for you. I can understand if you have no current plans to continue it, but if that is the case, I would pay almost anything to know how the story ends.
2. Is the cow girl from your last DA upload canon to Felarya?

1. Karbo has plans to finish it.
2. As far as I am aware it is just a fun character that isn't related to Felarya. It doesn't really feel Felaryan and is completely different than all the other hybrids that Felarya has, so I doubt it was intended for Felarya. This is all up to Karbo though.

1. Correction, Karbo originally had plans to finish it, but since then, he's made "Hard Choices" "Check and Mate" and "A Princesses' Duty" as well as a few color comics. While I really enjoyed these spinoff comics, it makes me doubt that he will continue the tomes since the spinoffs probably make much more money. Besides, I know I'm probably the only one who cares about the story, and what happens to Lea. I know he can finish them, but i'm getting doubtful. Especially since El Portero kinda left as he was a lead story editor and help to Karbo.

2. Possibly, but we also have centaurs, so it is possible either way.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:07 pm

dragon808tr wrote:
Amethyst wrote:
dragon808tr wrote:
Well Karbo, If I may, I have a few things for you. In no particular order of course.

1. Will the story of the Tomes ever be finished? This is probably my biggest question for you. I can understand if you have no current plans to continue it, but if that is the case, I would pay almost anything to know how the story ends.
2. Is the cow girl from your last DA upload canon to Felarya?

1. Karbo has plans to finish it.
2. As far as I am aware it is just a fun character that isn't related to Felarya. It doesn't really feel Felaryan and is completely different than all the other hybrids that Felarya has, so I doubt it was intended for Felarya. This is all up to Karbo though.

1. Correction, Karbo originally had plans to finish it, but since then, he's made "Hard Choices" "Check and Mate" and "A Princesses' Duty" as well as a few color comics. While I really enjoyed these spinoff comics, it makes me doubt that he will continue the tomes since the spinoffs probably make much more money. Besides, I know I'm probably the only one who cares about the story, and what happens to Lea. I know he can finish them, but i'm getting doubtful. Especially since El Portero kinda left as he was a lead story editor and help to Karbo.

2. Possibly, but we also have centaurs, so it is possible either way.
1. I was basing what I said off him saying he had plans to finish it(this was relatively recent)
2. Yes, but the centaur is half human half horse.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:19 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
That does not work.  First of all, you forget that Negav does not engage in hunting and gathering thanks to the Dimensional Gate allowing them to trade with other worlds.  Even without the gate, Negav is far, far too big of a city for hunting and gathering to be a viable income of food.  Hunting and gathering can only sustain a small community, not a metropolis whose inhabitants number in the hundreds of thousands.  You also completely ignore places like Kortiki, Kelerm and Chioita, which are all safe from predation in their own way.  Kortiki is in the middle of a neutral zone and its inhabitants live peacefully with fairies.  Hunters can thus benefit from the protection of fairies when leaving the zone to hunt.  Kelerm is practically isolated geographically, with a vast sea of quicksand to the south and sheer cliffs dropping directly into the ocean to the north.  Chioita has amicable ties with sapient predators as they offer them tribute with all the fishes they catch, making them largely safe.

Your reasoning that people will eventually leave the walls due to boredom or because their employment ended arbitrarily makes absolutely no sense.  How do you know for sure that will happen?  There's a reason why the simple solutions are often the best.  Instead of coming up with something convoluted just to keep somethings that doesn't work just to try to make it work, we should get rid of it and come up with something different.  Trying to compromise and pleasing everybody only to not please anybody is what got us in this situation in the first place.


And dragon, you did not list a single thing you wish to change, only what you want to see Karbo draw.  Except for 7, which is not ever going to happen.  People have been fighting for having their characters added in the wiki since the place was founded, and if you want my honest opinion, this was a mistake.  I'll make this as clear as possible: me and Karbo over private messages on dA and we both agreed that we need to clean house.  In other words, get rid of things about Felarya that don't work so that we can make sense of the place.
I completely forgot about the gate. So the amount of people leaving the walls is drastically reduced. I'm a little curious as to what the point of Negav even is if they get all their resources from outside Felarya. I know they make almost all there money from mining, but there wouldn't be a need for most of Negav for just mining.

I was kinda just assuming that eventually people would venture past the walls at some point of their life. I based that on that if you were immortal eventually you would get bored and want to try something else. For the other cities you mentioned, I'm assuming the birth rate would just be super low.

I think that the problems with population due to immortality can probably be explained, but if it doesn't make sense I'm all for changing it.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:28 pm

Amethyst wrote:
Shady Knight wrote:
That does not work.  First of all, you forget that Negav does not engage in hunting and gathering thanks to the Dimensional Gate allowing them to trade with other worlds.  Even without the gate, Negav is far, far too big of a city for hunting and gathering to be a viable income of food.  Hunting and gathering can only sustain a small community, not a metropolis whose inhabitants number in the hundreds of thousands.  You also completely ignore places like Kortiki, Kelerm and Chioita, which are all safe from predation in their own way.  Kortiki is in the middle of a neutral zone and its inhabitants live peacefully with fairies.  Hunters can thus benefit from the protection of fairies when leaving the zone to hunt.  Kelerm is practically isolated geographically, with a vast sea of quicksand to the south and sheer cliffs dropping directly into the ocean to the north.  Chioita has amicable ties with sapient predators as they offer them tribute with all the fishes they catch, making them largely safe.

Your reasoning that people will eventually leave the walls due to boredom or because their employment ended arbitrarily makes absolutely no sense.  How do you know for sure that will happen?  There's a reason why the simple solutions are often the best.  Instead of coming up with something convoluted just to keep somethings that doesn't work just to try to make it work, we should get rid of it and come up with something different.  Trying to compromise and pleasing everybody only to not please anybody is what got us in this situation in the first place.


And dragon, you did not list a single thing you wish to change, only what you want to see Karbo draw.  Except for 7, which is not ever going to happen.  People have been fighting for having their characters added in the wiki since the place was founded, and if you want my honest opinion, this was a mistake.  I'll make this as clear as possible: me and Karbo over private messages on dA and we both agreed that we need to clean house.  In other words, get rid of things about Felarya that don't work so that we can make sense of the place.
I completely forgot about the gate. So the amount of people leaving the walls is drastically reduced. I'm a little curious as to what the point of Negav even is if they get all their resources from outside Felarya. I know they make almost all there money from mining, but there wouldn't be a need for most of Negav for just mining.

I was kinda just assuming that eventually people would venture past the walls at some point of their life. I based that on that if you were immortal eventually you would get bored and want to try something else. For the other cities you mentioned, I'm assuming the birth rate would just be super low.

I think that the problems with population due to immortality can probably be explained, but if it doesn't make sense I'm all for changing it.

Actually, predators can infiltrate Negav. Though it is usually the occasional Fairy in small size, undetected by the Eye's effects. Besides, Negav is a crime-heavy area, and murders and assassinations are pretty common. Especially in the political area (like real life). Heh, well besides that, the birth rate would probably be equal to the death rate, as strong as Negav is, its not impenetrable. I've actually had the idea that there is a way to shrink normal people (shrink ray or magic) and sell them off to Nekos for a high price.

I think the immortality due to the soil makes sence though.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:52 pm

dragon808tr wrote:
Amethyst wrote:
Shady Knight wrote:
That does not work.  First of all, you forget that Negav does not engage in hunting and gathering thanks to the Dimensional Gate allowing them to trade with other worlds.  Even without the gate, Negav is far, far too big of a city for hunting and gathering to be a viable income of food.  Hunting and gathering can only sustain a small community, not a metropolis whose inhabitants number in the hundreds of thousands.  You also completely ignore places like Kortiki, Kelerm and Chioita, which are all safe from predation in their own way.  Kortiki is in the middle of a neutral zone and its inhabitants live peacefully with fairies.  Hunters can thus benefit from the protection of fairies when leaving the zone to hunt.  Kelerm is practically isolated geographically, with a vast sea of quicksand to the south and sheer cliffs dropping directly into the ocean to the north.  Chioita has amicable ties with sapient predators as they offer them tribute with all the fishes they catch, making them largely safe.

Your reasoning that people will eventually leave the walls due to boredom or because their employment ended arbitrarily makes absolutely no sense.  How do you know for sure that will happen?  There's a reason why the simple solutions are often the best.  Instead of coming up with something convoluted just to keep somethings that doesn't work just to try to make it work, we should get rid of it and come up with something different.  Trying to compromise and pleasing everybody only to not please anybody is what got us in this situation in the first place.


And dragon, you did not list a single thing you wish to change, only what you want to see Karbo draw.  Except for 7, which is not ever going to happen.  People have been fighting for having their characters added in the wiki since the place was founded, and if you want my honest opinion, this was a mistake.  I'll make this as clear as possible: me and Karbo over private messages on dA and we both agreed that we need to clean house.  In other words, get rid of things about Felarya that don't work so that we can make sense of the place.
I completely forgot about the gate. So the amount of people leaving the walls is drastically reduced. I'm a little curious as to what the point of Negav even is if they get all their resources from outside Felarya. I know they make almost all there money from mining, but there wouldn't be a need for most of Negav for just mining.

I was kinda just assuming that eventually people would venture past the walls at some point of their life. I based that on that if you were immortal eventually you would get bored and want to try something else. For the other cities you mentioned, I'm assuming the birth rate would just be super low.

I think that the problems with population due to immortality can probably be explained, but if it doesn't make sense I'm all for changing it.

Actually, predators can infiltrate Negav. Though it is usually the occasional Fairy in small size, undetected by the Eye's effects. Besides, Negav is a crime-heavy area, and murders and assassinations are pretty common. Especially in the political area (like real life). Heh, well besides that, the birth rate would probably be equal to the death rate, as strong as Negav is, its not impenetrable. I've actually had the idea that there is a way to shrink normal people (shrink ray or magic) and sell them off to Nekos for a high price.

I think the immortality due to the soil makes sence though.
I know slimoids can infiltrate Negav, and they live underground. I've never heard of a fairy managing to get past. I've read that faries in their smallest size can get closer, but still can't get into Negav.(edit. after reading the wiki, fairies are affecting more than others even at any size) Where did you read this?
I've thought about the same thing XD. Once someone is shrunk by a mage, maybe they keep that size due to a special container they are in.

In Megav there is more than likely rules on the population to prevent going down like Urgasol. And in other civilizations they probably only have enough children to maintain the population. Otherwise they would outgrow their resources.

Even if it does make sense to have immortality granted through the soil, I've always thought of the biology and alot of the anatomy to be different. Which leads to not that much aging past the prime years. I've also toyed with the idea that maybe predators are drawn more to older creatures.(maybe)
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:00 pm

Amethyst wrote:
dragon808tr wrote:
Amethyst wrote:
Shady Knight wrote:
That does not work.  First of all, you forget that Negav does not engage in hunting and gathering thanks to the Dimensional Gate allowing them to trade with other worlds.  Even without the gate, Negav is far, far too big of a city for hunting and gathering to be a viable income of food.  Hunting and gathering can only sustain a small community, not a metropolis whose inhabitants number in the hundreds of thousands.  You also completely ignore places like Kortiki, Kelerm and Chioita, which are all safe from predation in their own way.  Kortiki is in the middle of a neutral zone and its inhabitants live peacefully with fairies.  Hunters can thus benefit from the protection of fairies when leaving the zone to hunt.  Kelerm is practically isolated geographically, with a vast sea of quicksand to the south and sheer cliffs dropping directly into the ocean to the north.  Chioita has amicable ties with sapient predators as they offer them tribute with all the fishes they catch, making them largely safe.

Your reasoning that people will eventually leave the walls due to boredom or because their employment ended arbitrarily makes absolutely no sense.  How do you know for sure that will happen?  There's a reason why the simple solutions are often the best.  Instead of coming up with something convoluted just to keep somethings that doesn't work just to try to make it work, we should get rid of it and come up with something different.  Trying to compromise and pleasing everybody only to not please anybody is what got us in this situation in the first place.


And dragon, you did not list a single thing you wish to change, only what you want to see Karbo draw.  Except for 7, which is not ever going to happen.  People have been fighting for having their characters added in the wiki since the place was founded, and if you want my honest opinion, this was a mistake.  I'll make this as clear as possible: me and Karbo over private messages on dA and we both agreed that we need to clean house.  In other words, get rid of things about Felarya that don't work so that we can make sense of the place.
I completely forgot about the gate. So the amount of people leaving the walls is drastically reduced. I'm a little curious as to what the point of Negav even is if they get all their resources from outside Felarya. I know they make almost all there money from mining, but there wouldn't be a need for most of Negav for just mining.

I was kinda just assuming that eventually people would venture past the walls at some point of their life. I based that on that if you were immortal eventually you would get bored and want to try something else. For the other cities you mentioned, I'm assuming the birth rate would just be super low.

I think that the problems with population due to immortality can probably be explained, but if it doesn't make sense I'm all for changing it.

Actually, predators can infiltrate Negav. Though it is usually the occasional Fairy in small size, undetected by the Eye's effects. Besides, Negav is a crime-heavy area, and murders and assassinations are pretty common. Especially in the political area (like real life). Heh, well besides that, the birth rate would probably be equal to the death rate, as strong as Negav is, its not impenetrable. I've actually had the idea that there is a way to shrink normal people (shrink ray or magic) and sell them off to Nekos for a high price.

I think the immortality due to the soil makes sence though.
I know slimoids can infiltrate Negav, and they live underground. I've never heard of a fairy managing to get past. I've read that faries in their smallest size can get closer, but still can't get into Negav.(edit. after reading the wiki, fairies are affecting more than others even at any size) Where did you read this?
I've thought about the same thing XD. Once someone is shrunk by a mage, maybe they keep that size due to a special container they are in.

In Megav there is more than likely rules on the population to prevent going down like Urgasol. And in other civilizations they probably only have enough children to maintain the population. Otherwise they would outgrow their resources.

Even if it does make sense to have immortality granted through the soil, I've always thought of the biology and alot of the anatomy to be different. Which leads to not that much aging past the prime years. I've also toyed with the idea that maybe predators are drawn more to older creatures.(maybe)

I know I read it somewhere. I just checked it in the wiki and found nothing though. I remember a sentince saying "Faries can occasionally get into the city shrunken, gobble up a human or two, and escape before the Eye's effects take their toll, though this is extremely rare, though it does happen." I'll notify you once I find the source.

Or maybe there comes a time when people are executed by the goverment?
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:00 pm

The point of Negav is simple: to provide a safe haven for humans in a world where they're near the very bottom of the food chain.  At least, that's what the big wigs there would probably tell you, but out of universe, that's essentially what it is.  It doesn't need to be all that complicated.

I realize that I probably didn't get all of my point across quite the way I wanted, and I apologize.  So I'll try to explain them more clearly.

First of all, this thread's title is woefully inaccurate.  What happened is that, in late 2017, me and Karbo had a brief chat over PM on dA.  I won't give any detail of what we were talking about, but in it, we both agreed that Felarya was in need of a clean up.  And this is what this thread is.  It's not so much a list of what you'd like to see changed and more what you think NEEDS to be changed about Felarya for the better.

The thing I think needs to change most and is the core of the setting's problem at the moment is that Karbo needs to give everyone, both on the forum and on dA, a clear-cut, concrete idea of how HE views his fictitious universe, and he needs enforces that vision.  The way things are managed at present, everyone has a radically different view of how Felarya works from each other.  What we know of Felarya right now is really little more than bullet points.  Smaller details, such as the setting's tone, overall technology level versus magic, how common the giant monster girls are out there, are nebulous and murky at best, and because there are so many such details missing because Karbo basically keeps only to himself expecting us to be mind readers, no two contributor has the same concrete idea of how Felarya works.  Ask me how I view Felarya and I guarantee you it will deviate vastly from your own preconceptions of the setting.  The result of that is that Felarya has no clear goal.  Contributions, ideas and stories clash wildly from one another because no one knows truly what Felarya is all about.  The setting may have grown greatly from its inception in the mid-2000's, but it has since meandered aimlessly for years until it came to a dead stop a few years back, lost due to a lack of clear directions.

If you ask me how I would personally make Felarya were I in Karbo's shoes right now, it would be like this:

First and foremost, I would completely abandon the idea that people in Felarya do not die from old age or are mostly immune to diseases.  I've discussed it already, but I simply don't think we can make it work anymore.  Too many civilizations with a decent lifespan and level of protection against the giant monster girls have emerged over the years to the point that we can no longer turn a blind eye to the issues of potential eternal life across the globe.  If you ask me, trying to make it work would just be too convoluted a process when nixing it entirely and replacing it with an extended lifetime would be so much simpler.  There would be exceptional cases, of course, but that's what they would be: exceptions.

Second, I would put a greater emphasis toward fantasy than sci-fi.  Like I said, I can't begin to count how many times I've seen basically magic be justified by it being advanced technology, and the end result is a setting with a severe case of identity crisis.  Felarya has no idea if it wants to be a fantasy, sci-fi, or something in-between.  From Karbo's drawings and most of his ideas in general, it's obvious he leans more toward fantasy, but with a vague idea of what the average global technological level, how far exactly it leans more toward that is anyone's guess.  I would do it were I Karbo is that humans, at least around Negav, are starting to discover gunpowder, so the most common forms of firearms are of the muzzle-loaded, matchlock, wheellock, flintlock variety.  Easy and powerful enough to use by just about anybody, but still unreliable and inefficient enough that swords and crossbows wouldn't be completely obsolete yet.  At its most advanced, easily obtainable firearms would be closer to weapons from the old west, like six-shooters and double-barreled shotguns.  The downside of these "advanced" firearms is that they would be much more difficult to produce for the average craftsman, are far rarer, and as a result, are exponentially more expensive than earlier firearms.  Groups with futuristic technology would be few and far between, and their tech would be rarer than rare; nigh impossible, if not downright impossible for just about anyone to acquire.  On an old game forum I used the frequent, the Roleplay board specifically enforced that no futuristic technology that occasionally pop up in the game be used for roleplaying solely so it wouldn't be abused.

Finally, I would get rid of a ton of races listed in the wiki.  Most of them, particularly minor races, are hardly ever used, if used at all, and a good chunk bring nothing new to the table.  Most of them, like the scorpion girls, have no depth whatsoever and only exist for the sake of having another species of monster girls.  This may sound sacrilege to you all, but I think we already have far too many monster girls, to the point they completely overshadow the regular monsters.  Of all the races in Felarya aside from the core races and the other popular races I listed, these are the ones I would keep: Demi-Chimera, because having demi-humans with widely different features is interesting, as is their ability to alter probability; Nemeses, because their appearance and power over dreams make them one of the more original races out there; Chilotaurs, because I think centipedes are cool predators and they would make for fantastic subterranean monsters; and Jotuns, because they have a history and culture, which already make them more interesting than 90% of its competitors.  Same with the Vhirya and I guess Chlaenas for the sake of variety among aquatic races.

The rest would be either deleted or made a sub-race to another more important race.  Ghosts, Genies, Slime girls and Vampires have nothing original to them, and in the vampires' case, can't even be native to Felarya, so why are they even here?  Titans would be more of a mythological creature than a real race so as to not give the wrong idea that there are still living titans in the world.  Giants and giantesses would be made part of the Human's entry, or better yet, be given its own entry as a catch-all term for giant variations of existing races.  Miaxi and Gyspas nobody use, attempts to make the former a legit race didn't work, plus they're just plain not interesting.  Squamataurs and Gekkotas are kind of bland, were originally created solely to prey on fairies which was a laughably terrible attempt at "nerfing" them.  Scorpisais are just as vanilla.  Saurotorans and Fungoids are "races" by the loosest of definitions and are really just beasties with the most rudimentary of intelligence.  Actiniaes and Achigates should really be sub-races of Dryads and Slug Girls respectively.  Nobody use Razias, Lemurians, or Tinies that aren't Neeras or Tomthumbs, so no use keeping them around.  And I don't like Ichtys anymore, so I'd be happy to let them go as well.

Instead of having a whole bunch of dull minor races and sub-races that nobody ever use, let's have fewer, more interesting races that feel right at home in Felarya.  Quality over quantity.  On that note, I would also rename Tomthumbs to Lilliputians or something different, because Tom Thumb is the name of a character, and Slug Girls to something else because "Something Girl" is painfully amateurish, and in this case, inaccurate since they're technically both male and female.  Slug Girl would just be a common name humans refer them as instead of the actual name of their race.


These are what I would personally change if I were the man in charge.


And to address dragon, you are completely wrong about fairies. Read this passage from the wiki that talks about the Isolon Eye:

Quote :
In the center of the city, in the Square of Hope atop the hill's summit, lies a large, spiraling marble tower. At the very top of this tower stands a large purple crystal, roughly 20 feet tall, known as the Isolon Eye. It was created by the Ps'isol mages as a testimony to their formidable power. It's a little marvel of magic and very few understand how it works, but what matters is that it keeps many gargantuan monsters from coming in proximity of the city. The Eye does not project some sort of tangible force-field, rather it creates magical vibrations that repel man-eating creatures over an enormous radius. Some researchers have established that the larger and more voracious the creature, the more pronounced the effects are. For example, the naga Crisis or the succubus Menyssan, both infamous for their enormous appetite for humans, would be stopped at a large distance away from Negav while a smaller, less voracious pantaur could venture closer to the city. The effects are gradual, and the closer a predator gets to the Eye, the more difficult it becomes to bear its effect. Moreover, if for some reason a predator was made immune to the Eye's effect, brought close to it, then their immunity removed, they would most likely die from the sudden unbearable repelling surge. Some rare beings, however, seem to be much less affected than others by the Eye, and fewer still appear completely immune. The reason why remains a mystery. Interestingly, fairies appear to be the most affected by the Eye, as unless they absolutely do not see humanoids as food, they will be repelled regardless of their current size. The Eye is, of course, guarded constantly by the most elite members of the Isolon Fist and surrounded by a shell of some of the most powerful warding enchantments one could find in Felarya, as the entire city could potentially be overrun by ravenous predators, especially flying ones such as harpies should it be damaged, destroyed, or stolen.

So, no. A fairy would not be able to infiltrate Negav. Also, you seem to grossly overestimate the crime rate of the city. Yes, crime is a big problem, but when is it not in big cities in real life? You make it sound like that it's a city-wide problem that you have fairly decent odds of being stabbed in the back at any time, when in reality, that's mostly an issue in the western quarter of the Lower Tier, and the lower parts of the Underground. Let's say you're just an unassuming baker in the Middle Tier. What are the odds that you would be victim of a deadly accident? It could happen, sure, but realistically and statistically speaking, you would be far more likely of dying of natural cause in the real world. A high crime rate isn't high in the sense that you have good chances of being robbed or murdered in the street. If Negav had a problem with crime this badly, then both the police and the military would be cracking down hard on civilians because that much crime would be a threat to the Ps'Isol Council's rule, and last time I check, Negav is neither a police state or under martial law, nor is it so lawless that the average citizens are too terrified to come out of their home, lest they be stabbed in the back by a pickpocket.

The problem with immortality is that unless accidents are super common, or the birthrate absurdly low, there is still the issue of potential overpopulation that's never addressed, and remember, this isn't limited to Negav. How does Kortiki deal with a stagnant, ever increasing population? How does Chioita deal with a stagnant, ever increasing population? How does Kelerm deal with a stagnant, ever increasing population? How do Shamshi tribes in Sunfall Thicket deal with that issue when, by all accounts, they live in one of the safest environments for them? Or other prominent elf tribes like the historian elves? These questions are never addressed, and potential solutions bring with them more question. Let's say, for the sake of example, that a system like The Giver is in place where, once you reach an arbitrary age, you are euthanized. Well, would the populace think that's shitty that just cause you've reached an arbitrary birthday you have to be essentially killed? Would they rebel against the idea and think that it's unfair? Would politicians abuse that power? They definitely would, and wouldn't the people get seriously pissed off about it and revolt? How would Kortiki do this? How would Kelerm do this? Chioita? The elf tribes?

It's fascinating stuff to be certain and I could see it as an argument to keep immortality, but I don't think Karbo would like touching subjects that heavy when, just looking at his work, he'd rather be doing something more simple and lighthearted. The immortality was potentially interesting back in the day, but now it has brought with it too many questions and issues Karbo is unwilling to touch. It would be far simpler for both him and us if immortality was simply a longer lifespan.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:25 pm

Hey Shady, ok, I admit I was wrong, as I just double checked myself, I just remember it from somewhere and might not exactly be totally canon (see my previous post).

Though, the crime rate is quite high, being murdered is probably not going to happen to you, unless you have some bad luck or are in the aforementioned areas. Still though, there are a good deal of corrupt politicians and people in power (Lady Lesonia for one). But there are some good ones, like the Mages leader who defended the city through the "Day of Destruction".

Though Shady, I have to respectfully disagree with you on the Immortality thing. First off, we don't know what the birth rate is, so that determines if overpopulation is even an issue to begin with. Secondly, every predator needs to eat, not just giantess monster girls, but also the non-giantess preds and carnivorus plants. Besides, those giantesses eat a lot per day! Based on the tomes, I estimate that Crisis and Vivian likley eat about 5+ humans per day on average (likley 8-10 on a good day). Other preds may need more or less, depending on their diets, which still aren't even fully established. Third, even though Negav is relatively safe, there is still a Gleutoux stand in the middle, with occasionally roaming Gleutoux. Even though getting eaten by one is kinda hard to do, I imagine it happens. Lastly, even if everyone is immortal, they still need money for food, shelter, clothing exc needed for life. For that, they would need a job. As far as i'm aware, Negav is mostly a normal fantasy town (except the high tier, which has magic and tech studies) so you'd have barkeepers and Innkeepers, food vendors, fighters for Janslo arena, maids exc, but by far, the most lecuritive professions would be mining in the Ascarlin mountains and treasure hunting/exploring/adventuring as discoveries could make one very rich (unlike real life). I imagine being a fairy hunter would also fall into this area, but I'm not sure if its actually taken seriously in-universe by many people. Anyway, these jobs out of the city may pay better, but the risk of death (by any predator or falling or other death) is greatly increased, meaning more fatalities and therefore, more humans needed to fill the gaps. That's just my view on it.

(Also, before I continue, I just want to say that I'm not angry or upset at this, I may have made an honest mistake. I'm aware I'm still not well-liked for what happened here in the past, but I'm working now to correct it and save the future. I want to be taken seriously and help the fourms and Felarya progress. Hopefully people can see past my faults and accept me for who I am so we can all feel comfortable. After all, we have all fallen in the past, but we all rise from that fall to become better people. Besides, I love Felarya too much to just let it go. I'm stubborn that way! Wink )
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:31 pm

After thinking about this a bit, in my opinion I have to agree with you about immortality on some of the things you have brought up. Maybe for humans they start to grow weaker and more prone to disease after 500 years, and almost never make it past 1000. A lot of people won't even make it past 300 though. Or maybe immortality is still a thing, idk I haven't made up my mind. You still need low birth rates in safe places to prevent overpopulation. I completely agree on removing immunity to diseases. I think they should be rare, and unique to Felarya though.

Alot of the minor races should be removed, but a few of them should stay, just maybe not used often. In my opinion Inus, demi chimeras, nemesis, ghosts, ghosts, vampires, jotuns, Lemurians, Ichthys, Saurotaurans, Fungoïds, and Razias should be removed. Titans should be removed or changed. Achigates, maybe should be removed.
Squamataurs, and gekkotas should be changed. I would keep miaxi, slimoids, chilotaurs, Scorpisaïs, and Actiniaes, but keep them minor races.
Slug girls definitely need a name change.


Last edited by Amethyst on Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:55 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:36 pm

What is a gleutoux stand?
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:54 pm

The place you're thinking about is the Safe Harbor, the little settlement that Jade watches over.

Anyway, there is so much wrong with your reasoning, your second and third point especially are absolute nonsense.  What do predators have to do with people who have absolutely no fucking reason ever to leave Negav?  You seem to be under the delusion that the average folk there leave the city all the time.  That's completely untrue and it doesn't take a genius to know why.  Negav is self-sufficient thanks to the dimensional gate allowing trade of supplies.  Why the fuck are giants that can't even get close to the city, let alone enter it, be a factor in the whole immortality conundrum?  If you're thinking of the KFC Glouteux joke, these buggers are killed before they even set foot inside the city. I mean, real KFC don't carry live chickens in their kitchens.  Think logically for a second, would anybody do something so stupid as allow a giant predator like a Glouteux, if it can even enter the city to begin with, where an accident like you describe could happen?  No, they wouldn't!  People aren't dumb; they have rules and regulations in place specifically to minimize those kind of accidents.  That scenario just would not happen.

And "fairy hunter" isn't a even legit profession because, once again, people aren't dumb.  Negavians and adventurers in Negav know how deadly they are, so they wouldn't go out of their way to pick a fight with them.  It's basic common sense.  If somebody walked into a tavern and announced himself as a fairy hunter, most people would either dismiss him and call him a fool straight to his face.  Keep in mind, most adventurers in Negav aren't even from the place to begin with.  The parts of the Lower Tier that caters to them deals with temporary lodging because, a good reason adventurers don't have a home is because they don't actually live in Negav.  Some would, obviously, but they wouldn't be common because, obviously, they know better, and would need a really damn good reason to even consider risking their lives out there.  That's how I view it at least.

As for the issue of birthrate, once again, think outside of Negav.  We got Kortiki, we got Kelerm, we got Chioita City.  All of these are subject to the same issue as Negav when it comes to a potentially ageless population.  It would be so much simpler and faster if immortality just wasn't a thing to begin with.  All of those issues I listed would no longer need to be addressed, and we wouldn't need to come up with convoluted bullshit that only overcomplicate things just to make it work.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:01 pm

Shady, where are you getting "Negav gets all there resources from the dimensional gate" from?
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:10 pm

http://felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Negav#Economy
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:14 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
http://felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Negav#Economy
I've read that, but all I could find was most of their imports are food. If they are living in Felarya instead of a different dimension, then they probably have at least a good portion of their resources coming from Felarya. Otherwise they should just live somewhere else.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:20 pm

Quote :
Negav is surrounded by a massive wall, aptly named the Great Wall, a marvel of craftsmanship and magic combined. It towers hundreds of feet tall, protected with powerful cannons and other weaponry. The city has only two entrances: the Victory Gate, which leads north of the Motamo river across Asianas Bridge and is the most frequently used entrance, and the Watchers' Gate, which leads to the south. Both are heavily guarded not only by weapons and diligent Isolon Fist soldiers, but also all manners of detection devices and identification spells to ensure that nothing unwelcome sneaks in. The gates can also be sealed off in an emergency, with massive reinforced doors able to close very quickly. The architects chose not to reveal all of the walls' secrets, but one of them is that they appear to be covered by almost pure Xythium, a very rare and extremely hard metal. The area immediately surrounding the city is home to a few farmlands and access to a number of underground shelters. Directly to the east of Asianas Bridge is Negav's Dimensional Gate.

Quote :
Thanks to the Dimensional Gate, Negav has become a small interdimensional hub of commerce. Most of its major exports include unique Felaryan resources, food, handcrafted goods and art, and assorted magitechnology. Most of Negav's major imports come in the form of food, especially from Mebron, as the farms alone are not quite enough to keep the whole city sustained. Countless merchants from different worlds has flocked to Negav hoping to sell wares never seen before in Felarya, making the city-wide selection of goods extremely diverse. One of Negav's primary source of income naturally comes in the form of adventurers and explorers, with entire districts such as the Lower Tier designed to capitalize on them.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:21 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
Quote :
Negav is surrounded by a massive wall, aptly named the Great Wall, a marvel of craftsmanship and magic combined. It towers hundreds of feet tall, protected with powerful cannons and other weaponry. The city has only two entrances: the Victory Gate, which leads north of the Motamo river across Asianas Bridge and is the most frequently used entrance, and the Watchers' Gate, which leads to the south. Both are heavily guarded not only by weapons and diligent Isolon Fist soldiers, but also all manners of detection devices and identification spells to ensure that nothing unwelcome sneaks in. The gates can also be sealed off in an emergency, with massive reinforced doors able to close very quickly. The architects chose not to reveal all of the walls' secrets, but one of them is that they appear to be covered by almost pure Xythium, a very rare and extremely hard metal. The area immediately surrounding the city is home to a few farmlands and access to a number of underground shelters. Directly to the east of Asianas Bridge is Negav's Dimensional Gate.

Quote :
Thanks to the Dimensional Gate, Negav has become a small interdimensional hub of commerce. Most of its major exports include unique Felaryan resources, food, handcrafted goods and art, and assorted magitechnology. Most of Negav's major imports come in the form of food, especially from Mebron, as the farms alone are not quite enough to keep the whole city sustained. Countless merchants from different worlds has flocked to Negav hoping to sell wares never seen before in Felarya, making the city-wide selection of goods extremely diverse. One of Negav's primary source of income naturally comes in the form of adventurers and explorers, with entire districts such as the Lower Tier designed to capitalize on them.
I read that to. There is still probably some resources that they get that is outside the city. If there isn't then there is no point of Negav if all they do is import most of their resources.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Do you know how difficult it is to move permanently to another country?  How hard it is to hunt for a home?  A stable employment?  Getting to learn a totally different language?  Having the currency you've been using all your life suddenly become worthless?  Now, let's apply this to moving to another planet in another dimension.  It's not a matter that people can't move to another world, but rather that it's more convenient to stay.  Immigration isn't easy, much less a massive immigration.  Also...

Quote :
Negavians tend to complain a lot about life on Felarya, but at the same time, they hold a sense of pride in being there, on what is widely recognized as one of the most dangerous known worlds for humans. Moreover, living in Negav feels like being in the center of things, with so many different people passing through, carrying with them rumors, epic tales and, sometimes, fantastic treasures. Negav is the city where adventures and legends are born. Many people who have lived in Negav for several years, but decided one day to leave Felarya, find themselves irresistibly drawn back to the city a few years later. They say that life does not have the same flavor outside Negav. As the saying goes: "Once a Negavian, always a Negavian."
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:45 pm

2 things, quite simple:

Delete this forum, and start anew somewhere else. This thread is so important, and only 3 people are discussing it. No one comes here anymore, and if they do, the blatant majority just won't participate in the discussions. As far as I'm concerned, this place is dead.

Another thing: promote shady to some higher rank, like Moderator, particularly on the wiki. He masters the universe like no one else and that would bring fresh air, too. I mean... we're still stuck with moderators that just don't participate anymore (which is alright). Let Shady help you with the universe.

Ok, bye.
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