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Amethyst
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:45 pm

Shady Knight wrote:
Do you know how difficult it is to move permanently to another country?  How hard it is to hunt for a home?  A stable employment?  Getting to learn a totally different language?  Having the currency you've been using all your life suddenly become worthless?  Now, let's apply this to moving to another planet in another dimension.  It's not a matter that people can't move to another world, but rather that it's more convenient to stay.  Immigration isn't easy, much less a massive immigration.  Also...

Quote :
Negavians tend to complain a lot about life on Felarya, but at the same time, they hold a sense of pride in being there, on what is widely recognized as one of the most dangerous known worlds for humans. Moreover, living in Negav feels like being in the center of things, with so many different people passing through, carrying with them rumors, epic tales and, sometimes, fantastic treasures. Negav is the city where adventures and legends are born. Many people who have lived in Negav for several years, but decided one day to leave Felarya, find themselves irresistibly drawn back to the city a few years later. They say that life does not have the same flavor outside Negav. As the saying goes: "Once a Negavian, always a Negavian."
I'm saying Negav wouldn't have become a thing, not that they would all of a sudden mass migrate elsewhere after Negav was built.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:56 am

I'm also quite interested in the tomes. I'd love to see their story, and have been waiting for the next installment this whole time. xD

Also, yeah, this place seems a bit dead without all the others coming back, or finding new blood. There's still a huge number of fans on DA and Patreon.

I know there's more, but I cant think right now. Still too early.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:20 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
I'm also quite interested in the tomes. I'd love to see their story, and have been waiting for the next installment this whole time. xD

Also, yeah, this place seems a bit dead without all the others coming back, or finding new blood. There's still a huge number of fans on DA and Patreon.

I know there's more, but I cant think right now. Still too early.

Yeah! I Knew I couldn't be the only one! Here's hoping we do get the Tomes continued, or at least my plan of paying Karbo to write an ending synopsis if it won't ever be finished.

Well, we could advertise on DA and Patreon for new people, as well as Karbo (or another mod) contacting those who have left to see if they would come back. That should solve the problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:41 pm

I think its just not very popular. Most people come to felarya for its rather...unique attributes. Less so the storytelling parts. Karbo, like all who are held in a relatively public view, are subject to the whims of their followers most of the time. The problem is where to draw the line of course - but in this case, the content that he creates, is because of whatever the fans want most of. I'm sure he'd love to develop Lea's story. They're his characters.

To my own thoughts, I need to get back to writing, but I work 40+ hours per week and usually don't feel like putting for the extra effort on top of that, and trying to improve my own skills outside of work.

Anyway, I do find the prospect of a new forum intriguing. However, that'd be a big move, and what we would need to do, is make the larger scale decisions that would affect forum popularity. Felarya for me still holds quite a bit of mystery, and I think it always will. Just because the land outside of Negav gets bigger and grows, doesn't mean the world shrinks. Felarya's unique nature has me wondering...does the world keep going? does it end? does it just loop back around? There's so much to develop, and the prospect of having your ideas help develop the world and/or be a part of Karbo's creation is what draws most people, I'd say.

What I'm saying is, we need to attract more members, get the word out there's a place to participate, and draw on the desires that brings everyone here. Its all about advertisement. Its part of a niche community, but you still have to market it toward that niche community.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:42 am

Archmage_Bael wrote:
I think its just not very popular. Most people come to felarya for its rather...unique attributes. Less so the storytelling parts. Karbo, like all who are held in a relatively public view, are subject to the whims of their followers most of the time. The problem is where to draw the line of course - but in this case, the content that he creates, is because of whatever the fans want most of. I'm sure he'd love to develop Lea's story. They're his characters.

To my own thoughts, I need to get back to writing, but I work 40+ hours per week and usually don't feel like putting for the extra effort on top of that, and trying to improve my own skills outside of work.

Anyway, I do find the prospect of a new forum intriguing. However, that'd be a big move, and what we would need to do, is make the larger scale decisions that would affect forum popularity. Felarya for me still holds quite a bit of mystery, and I think it always will. Just because the land outside of Negav gets bigger and grows, doesn't mean the world shrinks. Felarya's unique nature has me wondering...does the world keep going? does it end? does it just loop back around? There's so much to develop, and the prospect of having your ideas help develop the world and/or be a part of Karbo's creation is what draws most people, I'd say.

What I'm saying is, we need to attract more members, get the word out there's a place to participate, and draw on the desires that brings everyone here. Its all about advertisement. Its part of a niche community, but you still have to market it toward that niche community.

I hope he does continue it. I totally understand being at the whims of those who watch him, and while I have greatly enjoyed the spinoff comics a good deal, I'd like to at least see the Tome's story continued.

The adventure and mystery aspect of Felarya is actually my favorite part, even above the giantess and vore aspects in some areas! Sure its a fetish place, but the lore is so good, it honestly could be its own mainstream world if most of the characters had clothes on! Reading over the wiki, you get a real sense of what the world is like, and what it is like to be a local or adventrure there. Sure it can still use a bit of fleshing out, and some things are contradictory (like guns and such), but for the most part, it's a pretty awesome feeling! Additionally, I've noticed Felarya seems to have awoken an "Adventurer" side to myself. I've noticed that over the years, i've been more drawn to adventure and explorer type things, like the Adventure's club in Disney and it was even more evident when my family went to this Adventure themed resort with an indoor water park over the summer. It was actually very unique, as there were journal entries from a fictitious world explorer scattered all around the place (Mostly for rides and attractions, though some were quite well hidden, especially the final chapter, which was nearly impossible to read given its placement next to a waterfall and area where you are always squirted with water). There were even a few possible nods to vore and Felarya, one being a slide where your raft got eaten by a giant venus flytrap, and the other were these giant Iguanas, that definitely ate people. Anyway, the point is that even my family noticed the change in me, I was more daring, and brave and very, very happy. It's kinda funny really, this was last summer and I still feel bad I didn't take a picture of one of the journal entries (which had a giant snake eating a group of people). I took a picture of all the others (minus the final chapter page, which would have destroyed my phone). Of course, I am trying to go back as soon as I can, since we all really loved that vacation, even though it was quite cheap for us (comparatively to other trips).

Ahh, sorry for rambling a bit ^^" I guess its just a fitting comparison. But yeah, I actually have this entire Idea/theory on Noctys but I haven't really shared it fully yet. I just find her so interesting of a character, even though she is never used. I also have great interest on what Negav life is like, considering how different and interesting it is. And also, should one find themselves in Felarya, what is the best way to survive?

As for advertising, I feel if more emphasis was put on this place through patreon and DA, this place would become a proper hub for discussions, and more formal than the discussions on those sites.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:18 pm

Would it be possible to further expand the boundaries of the map, maybe some more civilizations that aren't as big as Negav, but are up and coming?
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:36 pm

I must admit, you bring some pertinent points there Shady.

As it currently is, the wiki seems to contain a fair amount of content, that, in some aspects doesn't seem particulary useful. Traming and limiting a bit more the races, and focus more on their unique traits, could be a nice area to work on.

For the healings effect of the soil, I must also agree that, in it's current state, it feels more limiting than really "helpful" in some sort of ways. The simple fact that you can no longer be sick seems kind of a waste, and doesn't have much of a reason. I think "nerfing" that effect to a lesser degree (as you mentioned, longer lifespans, but not complete inmortality unless perhaps a few exeptions.) could be a nice area to work on as well.

As for what Krisexy said... I think she may be right as well ...

This place has been looking the same for 10 years, is saturated with tons and tons of posts, and filled with inactive users.
I think that starting a brand new forum, with a more appealing aesthetic (to be honest , I find the current one ugly and generic ) , could bring a nice breath of fresh air, and even perhaps atract more people!

That said ... well, Negav is a bit less of my domain of expertise, and this may sound  very generic, but as I see it, Negav makes more sense as an enormous settlement for treasure hunters, and people seeking to exploit the unique resources of the hostile environment that Felarya is ... and then make a life out of trading. Most of it's occupant should probably be just "passing by", or have a role that justifies staying for extended periods of time, and, if over population is a problem, I would assume the goverment would set strict rules to the citicens, with perhaps risks of expulsion for those who unfollow those rules.

Overall, those are all mostly good points to work on!
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:04 am

Okay I'm going to try and be calm and rational as I address the many points here using loose quotes.

Shady's Plan wrote:
Delete stuff and empower people to run the entries

The deleting I agree there's some bits that need trimmed. But not all of what you said. Scorpasais? Why would you delete them when in fact Bael wrote a ton of great culture stuff? Trim what's there and pluggin in his awesome ideas. Gekkotas? Sure why not. Raizias? ....As much as I hate to say it yes. They should go. Gimmick predator at best with only one great OC and nobody takes Silver Scales as cannon so alas many wouldn't know Minny if they saw fan art done by Karbo himself....

Now as for deleting the tiny races outside Tomthumbs and Neera? Hells yes. But, and i stress this, only if you replace those with good tiny ideas that have been passed over and leave the Torchilli alone. For mini harpies they earn sub race status.

As for empowering people to be able to make some changes without Karbo...Wait hey didn't I have this big plan use that as an excuse to take over and even have Karbo supporting me? Oh yeah I did. XP Then you made them aware of my true evil plan! Curse you! Hisssstt

No but in all seriousness that may be doable! Though I still maintain we should have power to add new articles to the wiki. We being not everyone in the public but only veteran forum members who have had an idea published there and have the vouchings of other forum members who have also had an idea published there.

*Takes a breath* On to Shady's ideas part 2:

Limit Tech to one level: No. Stagnating and another removal of my favorite thing in Felarya: Tech and Magic are equals. Never seen that in a setting. Ever. It's one of the things I love to use in my own works and I've seen in canonically in the comics too. Heck Negav is based on it and I think you're forgetting people can carry on their own plasma riffles and steam punk styled grenades because there's a huge portal outside of Negav, random dimensional instabilities bringing stuff in, their owners getting eaten and scavangers bringing a DVR to Negav for somebody to melt down for scrap only to find hey it works if I rub my tail on it! Or something. It's physically impossible to say "You can only use this level of tech for your OCs and in your stories peroid." We'll see massive uproar if we even suggest it and as well we should.

No. I'm sorry but the immortality factor is 50% of why most people want to stay in Felarya and it is unique in all the multiverse. Probably unique for the very reasons you say in your speech that it is crazy on population control in the many....Oh wait. We only have Two canon cities. Negav and Chiotia because we had people leave with their good city ideas. We are trying to erect Kelerm but it's still got a WIP sign a year latter on it, but yes I know what you'll say next. "But, Dave, you are forgetting Safe Harbour and places like that!" well here's a news flash this is why locales should be classified. See in the grand scale of things Safe Harbour is a thriving settlement It's not Negav's size or even Chiotia's. For that matter as per the canon's own rules only small villages survive in Felarya's ravaging wilds because protection is not everywhere which leads me to:

Population control. Yes we don't have plagues and massive predation in Negav but you forget more common things of Crime, Poverty and Starvation. Look at the  population ratio per layer. At the tippy top we have Lesona, literally has the top to herself, and then the rich who aren't actually that dense a population themselves. Lords and Magiocrats of old blood and money who have the least space but don't really need that much. The second layer is vastly more populated being more merchants, hardened adventures and celebs. The third tier has the most but they are also the least saturated in Skevols and Fadongs. Worse yet they are also the closest to the region that's hardest to take a census on: The Underground. This means they are predated by criminals,nasty critters what can get past The Eye or already live there. This takes care of allot of your population problems I think. What those that don't get mugged to death have to give up their Skevols which means no food which means they have to leave to the jungle where their life will likely end in realistic terms. AKA: Population control. Now you do have the wild card of offworlders coming in from the gate BUT most of them are tradesmen, travelers and other vagabonds who don't stay and the few who do stay will meet the same fate because even if they are rich they likely came for all the stupid amounts of treasure laying hither and dither.

Oh if that don't get the job done? Let's quote a passage from the wiki that's my favorite bit:
"People often will stroll down an alley way and dissapear."

Felarya is and always will be a dimensionally unstable place. It's the nexus of nexuses and as such even Negav isn't safe from it. Now we know it doesn't happen as frequently as we see in some stories because it's more a seasonal thing that increases slowly throughout the year like high tide of a sort then slowly ebbs for a while becoming safer and is a big theory as to why some places 'stick' to it. And barring them did not one group of junior wizard's send themselves plus Sean, Lester and Marina scattering to the four winds? That's an isolated incident you can argue but Dimensional magic is a canon field of study at the Academy according to it's wiki page. Bet it happens now and then in controlled areas, but there's a whole library of magical books the untrained hedge mages without grants can access too and they are much less likely to know what they are doing says I.

To the exception of people getting sick in Felarya I say surprisingly yay. I've been a proponent for this one for a while. Adding to Negav's already tripple edged method of killing off people and it'll easily save the immortality factor. Also it gives one more standard options in a story as well as ways to plug in lore. Your use of Tomeshal Flu for example was clever as it plugged in the name and put it in a commonly re-occurring disease


Yes we should have guidelines. Long thought that would help n00bs find their place easier but we must keep a check not to bully when enforcing them or let our newer veterans try to make things toxic accidently. A bit of misplaced enthusiasm could lead to some thinking of it more as bullying than guiding.

Dragon Ate Her's Misunderstanding wrote:
Fairies get into Negav sometimes

Fairies cannot get into Negav. One sub species can. Dusk Nymphs. Mara did it once by giving up her predatory powers, IE turning human. There's only handful, very small number at that, of creatures that can beat the Isolon Eye and only one type of pred. I can see how you would see 'fairies' and misread though. Reason why Negav needs a FAQ posted there.

Dragon Ate Her \" Is Bella Canon" wrote:
Is the cow girl cannon
Personally I say yes. She's unusual for the setting, a delightful personality and is named Bella by the way. Patreon names allot of preds you see without them. Clever chap Karbo using us to name characters in polls. Though I will say we have a Dragon girl who is outside the setting but is featured semi regularly so who knows. Up to Karbo as Shady said.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:21 pm

Amethyst wrote:
Having a different process of digestion/some different anatomy then real life would be nice. Digestion wouldn't have to be horrendously painful/disgusting, and prey would last longer than 10 seconds, before they drown/suffocate. Also their is alot of other things that would be nice to have work differently in Felarya.

While admittedly this did slightly deter me at first because I fell in love with the world of felarya over the vore, I'm not sure if it would make sense to change. First and foremost it is a soft vore story with digestion and predators, changing it to something less brutal would defeat the point of Felarya being a primeval and extremely dangerous world
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:42 pm

Water-Nebula wrote:
Amethyst wrote:
Having a different process of digestion/some different anatomy then real life would be nice. Digestion wouldn't have to be horrendously painful/disgusting, and prey would last longer than 10 seconds, before they drown/suffocate. Also their is alot of other things that would be nice to have work differently in Felarya.

While admittedly this did slightly deter me at first because I fell in love with the world of felarya over the vore, I'm not sure if it would make sense to change. First and foremost it is a soft vore story with digestion and predators, changing it to something less brutal would defeat the point of Felarya being a primeval and extremely dangerous world

Bah! No need to adjust the rules there as not everyone follows them. Most people use reincarnation or reforming despite the fact Karbo tried to lock that down once. This also brings up a practical question nobody wants to ask: "How do we enforce these new changes." After all we tell people Felarya is a pla e she's you can do what you want. A lam d of magic but if we tell them it's now limited and we're going to give them guidelines I actually doubt it can have a practical effect.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:47 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Well, the first thing I would change, and this is probably gonna sound weird, is this very thread.  See, the problem with Felarya isn't so much a bunch of ideas that clash together, but in how it's managed, and that's something that can't be as easily quantified as a list.  What you need to do, Karbo, is give us a clear-cut idea of how YOU view the setting, which direction YOU want the setting to go, and make it clear that this is the vision you have of Felarya to everybody.  Not just us few forumites who stayed long enough to have something of a vague idea of what that vision is, but to everyone on both the forums and the deviantArt group.  Don't just ask us to list a bunch of grievances to fix and cherry-pick the ones you like like you always do; it won't solve what is fundamentally broken with Felarya.

To be honest my vision of Felarya hasn't changed all that much fundamentally. However I feel I have neglected far too much the world building lately.I miss it a lot and want to change that. In the long run my aim is to make Felarya more coherent and perhaps more mature as an universe, with less hand-waving of things around and continue to develop it and enrich it.

Shady Knight wrote:
And for that to succeed, what we need is better quality control.  In fact, what we need is quality control at all.  The way things are managed, if you can call it that, most contributors on the dA group are probably under the impression that Felarya is still nothing but a chaotic jungle world where giant man-eating monster girls roam free and humans are just there as fodder, and no attempt as been made to clear away this misconception.  Once - or rather, if - we can all get to a solid agreement of what the setting tones' and other quirks should be, this message should be broadcast to the entire dA community, and enforced.

I propose is that we add guides for newbies.  Less "This is how/what you should write", and more "Here are some tips you should take into consideration when writing and what you should avoid."  The SCP Foundation wiki has an excellent guide for newcomers to the setting and I'll probably be using it as a template.  It won't be just a guide for writers, but there will also be a guide for character creation and possible idea submission.  That way, there will be no excuse if a hack writer uploads something that clearly violates the themes and the kind of tone we wish to establish.

I can agree with that yeah.

Shady Knight wrote:
Speaking of idea submission, like it was discussed in earlier threads, there should contributors with authority to approve or disapprove of ideas suggested, though Karbo will still retain ultimate authority over what gets in and what doesn't.  I know you made it your resolution to be more involved, Karbs, but experience has taught me that new year's resolutions are meant to be broken, so consider this a contingent in case things beyond your control keep you away from the community for extended periods.  These special contributors will have editing power the wiki, able to make changes to current articles and, possibly, create new articles for ideas that have been approved.  To avoid special treatments, these editors would not have the power to delete articles to avoid editors spiting each other, nor create or edit character pages.  Karbo will remain the sole person with authority to make changes, create or delete characters from the page.  Editors will be free to alter pages related to articles related to their own characters, but editing others' will require special permission from Karbo, and to further avoid abuse, be limited solely to minor edits like fixing typos.

The big question is of course who those editors would be but I mostly agree.

Shady Knight wrote:
On the subject of the wiki, the first change I would make to Felarya is massive deletions.  We have a ton of articles we could trim out or consolidate without any issue to make space for better ideas.  The core races that have been a part of Felarya since its creation; Humans, Elves, Nekos, Nagas, Mermaids, Harpies, Dryads, Dridders, Elementals, Centaurs, Sphinxes, Fairies, Angels and Demons will be exempt from the edit.  Popular races such as Tinies, Inus, Slug Girls and Mantoids, will also be exempt.  The rest of the races, particularly the minor races, will be systematically examined by Karbo and a group of editors.  Depending on how much they contribute to the setting, they will either be allowed to stay or be deleted.  I already have a list of races and sub-races I think we could already trim out, but I'll talk more about it if we agree with that plan.

That's the main point I disagree on. I agree on the fact many articles in the wiki lack substances or are too vague, barebone and see little use as a result, but I don't think we should look to do a mass deletion. On the contrary I think the way to go is to improve those elements and develop them more so they mesh in better wit the rest. Deleting articles should only be used in the last resort, if the idea is completely out of date or obsolete imho.

Shady Knight wrote:
The other major thing I would change is the immortality granted by Felarya's soil.  The concept worked great when Felarya was nothing but untamed wilderness, but with established civilizations all across the map, not just Negav, that can reliably defend themselves from predators, the question of a stagnant and ever-expanding population has only made the idea more obsolete.  It is yet another result of an unwillingness to change something about the setting on the grounds that it's "what makes Felarya unique" and the fear of upsetting long-time contributors.  What I propose is that we downplay the power of the soil.  Instead of making a person essentially ageless, it drastically slows down aging, with humans starting to show signs of aging passed their primes around 80 years of age, and the average human lifespan in a safe environment being in the ballpark of 150 years old.  This exact lifespan would change depending on the race and its environment.  On the same token, the immunity to disease should be similarly downplayed to people being hardier to normal illnesses.  If a plague suddenly swept a town, far fewer inhabitants would fall ill, and the majority of victims showcasing symptoms would merely be incapacitated and bedridden for a time with no real danger to their lives.  The only casualties would primarily be the elderly and those with a weak constitution.  Diseases spawn from unnatural means, such as magic, would be unaffected by the soil.

Yeah immortality is a big thing that has brought a lot of problems with it and might possibly be obsolete indeed. That's not an easy one to just remove like that though. For this one I would at least ask the community as a whole how they feel about it. I mostly agree on your stance on it though.

Shady Knight wrote:

The last major change I would make is establish once and for all the average level of technology across Felarya.  The more I'm reading stories, the more the elements of sci-fi and fantasy clash together due to a lack of a clear cut, general idea of the global technological level.  I cannot begin to count how many times I've seen high technology in Felarya be used as a substitute for magic by doing super specific things, with a mage just standing right next to it that probably could have done the same thing, and how much the two concepts end up clashing.  We need to establish a coherent and mostly consistent technological level across the known parts of the map, and once we have it, we need to enforce it.  While I don't have a super concrete idea for it, I do have a ground rule that most firearms sold on Negav's open market are early firearms like muzzle-loaded matchlock rifles and blunderbusses, with 19th century old west firearms at the latest, the latter of which would be ridiculously expensive.  Technology from exceptionally advanced factions like the Vishmitals and Othemites would be exceedingly rare and difficult to acquire for the average Negavian and adventurer even on the black market.

Mhh unlike immortality, I'm more mixed on that topic. I don't feel having various people/items/weapons coming from different age of technology is necessarily a big problem. But I do agree we should settle on a general age of technology Negav would be considered to be in. I love the pre-industrial age atmosphere personally and think it would work well for Negav. Basically they are starting to tentatively mix their magic with science and to harness the two with mixed degree of success but they are forging ahead on that road. However others regions of Felarya might have a different level. For instance Delurans would clearly be more advanced technologically than Negav.


dragon808tr wrote:
1. Will the story of the Tomes ever be finished? This is probably my biggest question for you. I can understand if you have no current plans to continue it, but if that is the case, I would pay almost anything to know how the story ends.  

I know it has been delayed and I have been starting too much projects in the same time but, yes, a new tome is definitely in the cards.

dragon808tr wrote:
2. Is the cow girl from your last DA upload canon to Felarya?  

No sorry... she wasn't really made with Felarya in mind ^^;. Her having leggings with cow pattern isn't very credible..  and second ( an more importantly ) she's supposed to have that "predator in plain sight" aspect. With people entering her fields and just not expecting to be eaten by her until they are already in her mouth. In Felarya, needless to say that wouldn't work and people would be wary of her as soon as they see her approach. And I think that would remove a lot of what make her unique as a pred ( well besides the four stomachs of course lol )

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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:50 pm

Before I begin, I should stress that you should actively take part in the discussion, Karbo.  Like Krisexy said, this is an important thread, yet you haven't said a thing in over a week.  If you're too busy to actively participate, then that's fine, but otherwise, this is not the kind of discussion where you can do your usual months-long vanishing act after you make the original post.

Karbo wrote:
That's the main point I disagree on. I agree on the fact many articles in the wiki lack substances or are too vague, barebone and see little use as a result, but I don't think we should look to do a mass deletion. On the contrary I think the way to go is to improve those elements and develop them more so they mesh in better wit the rest. Deleting articles should only be used in the last resort, if the idea is completely out of date or obsolete imho.

I guess there's no harm in leaving them there for people to use, though they do represent a big problem with Felarya in general, and that's quantity over quality.  The reason why so many of these races and sub-races lack substance and are bare-bones is simply because there are too many of them to be given that treatment.  Even back when Felarya was largely limited to just the core races, they had so many sub-races, upwards of almost five or six per race.  In a perfect world, we would be able to flesh out each of these minor races and sub-races so they can achieve the same standard as the core races.  Hell, I remember we tried to do just that with the Miaxi years back.  But we don't live in a perfect world, and people still didn't care for the Miaxi even after they've been given a more fleshed out article.  The reality is that it is far simpler and better in the long run to start with a few races with only a basic template, develop them, and then slowly start adding sub-races and minor races overtime so they can be on par with the core races.  What happened instead is that too many races and sub-races were created and added too quickly, with no thought to their culture or behavior or how they enrich the setting, resulting in a flood of content audiences never gravitated around because of how underdeveloped they were.  Removing them won't necessarily change anything, that much I can agree, but in my mind, it would streamline things tremendously.  It's your call.

Karbo wrote:
Yeah immortality is a big thing that has brought a lot of problems with it and might possibly be obsolete indeed. That's not an easy one to just remove like that though. For this one I would at least ask the community as a whole how they feel about it. I mostly agree on your stance on it though.

Asking the whole community as a whole sounds fair, but I think the reason it even is a problem to begin with is because you feared a potential backlash and didn't act on it when you had the chance, and so now, this one aspect of Felarya, which is obviously obsolete, is now practically a keystone that cannot be removed without affecting hundreds of fan fiction.  While it is good that you take the community into consideration before making a decision, you also need to put a certain distance between yourself and them so that you can actually make decisions they might not enjoy but you deem necessary.  I have a video here chronicling the founding of the SCP Foundation, and you'll find that they were once faced with this same problem.  The difference, of course, is that the admins for the SCP ultimately pulled that trigger.  I think you owe it yourself to look at how a community similar to ours came to be and how it acted when faced with problems.  If you want my opinion, if you worry too much about your every decisions splitting the community more than it already is, you won't be able to lead the community.  If people make a huge fuss about their characters no longer being potentially immortal on Felarya, a factor that rarely if ever applies in stories anyway, and declare that Felarya has been ruined forever instead of supporting your desire to flesh to try and flesh out the setting, then I don't think they're the kind of people you need to bother with.

Link to the SCP video

Karbo wrote:
Mhh unlike immortality, I'm more mixed on that topic. I don't feel having various people/items/weapons coming from different age of technology is necessarily a big problem. But I do agree we should settle on a general age of technology Negav would be considered to be in. I love the pre-industrial age atmosphere personally and think it would work well for Negav. Basically they are starting to tentatively mix their magic with science and to harness the two with mixed degree of success but they are forging ahead on that road. However others regions of Felarya might have a different level. For instance Delurans would clearly be more advanced technologically than Negav.

Maybe a better way to describe it is how common people with even just modern technology come to Felarya.  I admit, this is one of the more nebulous problems I think we need to tackle, and I don't have a concrete solution for it.  The crux of the problem is that it's not clear how much of Felarya leans toward fantasy and how much of it leans toward sci-fi, and the end result is that some people seem to think that modern technology might be more commonly available in Negav than it might actually be.  Most of it is due to the multiverse nature of Felarya, which is much too critical to remove, I should stress, but it does make it harder to discern for certain just how easily attainable high or even just modern technology in general really is.

As for Negav being in a "pre-industrial age", you need to be a bit more specific than that, because it can be interpreted in number of ways when you think about it.  Like the bog standard fantasy medieval Europe setting, that is technically pre-industrial.  By pre-industrial, do you mean that Negav's overall level of technology more closely resembles technology from the first half of the 18th century, before the Industrial Revolution in late 18th to mid-19th century, barring a few artistic anachronism?  You need to be more specific when you describe something so as to be as unambiguious as possible.  What I suggest is that you use something that already exist as a baseline, a point of reference from which your idea sprout and takes form.  In this case, technology from the first half of the 18th century.

Karbo wrote:
To be honest my vision of Felarya hasn't changed all that much fundamentally. However I feel I have neglected far too much the world building lately.I miss it a lot and want to change that. In the long run my aim is to make Felarya more coherent and perhaps more mature as an universe, with less hand-waving of things around and continue to develop it and enrich it.

There is a way you can develop Felarya and make it more of a living, breathing world, while still taking advantage of your artistic abilities.  And that is: concept arts.  I looked at your gallery and there is hardly anything that helps flesh out Felarya in 2017.  The best one is the Vishmital Concept art that you posted last April, and then swiftly abandoned.  The rest is almost completely dominated by vore pictures and Patreon sketches.  And sure, vore is what made you who are today and is what Felarya was founded on, but you can't say for a moment that those picture give people an idea of every facets of Felarya.  In fact, I argue that most people that follow you think of Felarya as only yuri and vore starring giant monster girls.  I got this comment from one of my stories back in 2015 that illustrate this.  When I got this comment, I had no idea how to reply.  It was completely absurd to me.  I'm not going to name who posted this comment, but I want you to see what they had to say:

Quote :
The scene were the two girls getting out of bed totally mislead me. I thought they were lovers then the elf girl got out of a sleeping bag. Lol WTF? I was almost irritated that I didn't get my daily Yuri that I expect from Felarya... Buuuut I did come enjoy the story went on. This giant neko usually doesn't like stories about Negav, where she can not feed on it's citizens, but she found this touching. She inquires of the small author: "is part of a series?"

Sure, everyone's got their particular interests in anything.  For example, I enjoy the lore and characters in League of Legends, but I couldn't care less about the game itself.  But I couldn't help but find their interest in the setting to be incredibly shallow, and I think a part of it is because you didn't do your part in showcasing the different aspects of Felarya through your art as much as you did with the vore.  And the biggest contributing factor to this is that you juggle way too many things at once, Karbo.  How often did you start something, like post an idea on the forum, disappeared, then returned a few months later only this time you moved on to something else?  You tried to flesh out the Vishmitals in early 2017, but then stopped, and by mid-to-late 2017, you had moved on to Kelerm, whereupon you stopped touching the thread just as quickly, resulting in it dying off.  Mind you, this isn't specifically a you problem.  I've noticed that creators in general have a hard time focusing on one thing at a time.  But it's still not a good habit to maintain if you want to revitalize this place.

So do some concept arts for things in Felarya.  Since we got Kelerm in development, why don't you make a series of pictures that showcase what the place and people look like?  If you want to get the community involved, do concept arts like you did with the Vishmitals and ask them which design for the average people, soldier, and sandship they like best.  Make pictures of the various fauna and carnivorous plants to be used for the wiki.  It will give you an excuse to update it for the first time in months if nothing else.  Also, maybe show some scenes of the daily life in various places in Felarya, and for added bonus, make their description a mini story of sorts.  RoninDude, an artist on dA, made a few pictures in that style using his character Lin going off to work.  I should add that RoninDude is not affiliated with Felarya in any shape or form; in fact, I doubt he knows we even exist, but I'll show you one of those pictures as an example of what I'm talking about.

https://ronindude.deviantart.com/art/Lin-Off-to-work-565110487

In fact, you should probably do something like that with Elorie since you introduced her recently.  It would give people an idea of who the character is and what she does while still being entertaining.  Otherwise, if you keep to your old habits, I sincerely doubt we'll hear of her again from you for at least another year.  Now, I'm not saying you should stop drawing vore and lewd altogether.  Far from it - I know just how much these two things matter to you.  But you need to offer a good balance of both contents if you truly wish to flesh out Felarya, and in this case, that means you'll need to cut down on the vore a bit.  Right now, the part of your audience that wish to see the world-building and lore has been woefully neglected for far too long, and it's time you fix that.


Now, there were other, smaller changes I wanted to list, but I think I'll stop here for now since I've rambled on long enough.  I'll probably post them later.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:08 am

Karbo wrote:

But I do agree we should settle on a general age of technology Negav would be considered to be in. I love the pre-industrial age atmosphere personally and think it would work well for Negav. Basically they are starting to tentatively mix their magic with science and to harness the two with mixed degree of success but they are forging ahead on that road. However others regions of Felarya might have a different level. For instance Delurans would clearly be more advanced technologically than Negav.

http://bestfantasybooks.com/arcanepunk-fantasy.html

https://strangewriter.wordpress.com/tag/arcane-punk/

https://blog.oup.com/2014/05/why-literary-genres-matter/

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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:55 pm

In my point of view, a more mature version of Felarya would be to stop being childish. The amount of humor is ridiculous for a world that should be dark, scary and treacherous. People die in Felarya, there's a tone that should come with it. I understand the manga style comes with some light hearted moment, but to be honest, it ruins it all. It's fun to contribute to Felarya, but Felarya is not a fun world. It's a deadly place where people get eaten without second thoughts. You want Felarya to mature? Change the tone. Predators should know they're being cruel: i mean, preys can literally speak the same language as them, and yet they decide they're mere food. There's an attitude that comes with that. It strongly depends on the writers and illustrators style, but, as a mortal fetish world, theres a darker tone that should accompany it. People try to make Felarya like a pink happy world where everyone is cheerful, while it really shouldn't. Following that idea, I think it'd be nice to add up more threats to giant predators. Poison, diseases, anything. Giant predators should also constantly fear for their life. Felarya should be unforgiving to any living thing in it. As of now, giant predators had it far too easy.

Personnally, I prefered the vore mangas over the felarya mangas. And I'm so glad the cow girl isn't part of the universe. Good job.

As for who should be editor on the wiki and such, all you (Karbo) need to do is open your eyes wide, and then the obvious choice will be revealed to you. I mean, it can't be more obvious than that. You should already be talking with him the modalities and other things, and not just making it unnecessarily linger. You need to be pro-active. This forum died because you weren't. And I damn hope you will make an effort of bringing patreon supporters and world builders in the same place. Dividing the fanbase is the worst thing that happened to the setting. If you want a good, solid world building, everyone should be in the same basket. I highly, strongly suggest you start a new forum and let this place die in peace. Felaryan Renaissance.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:40 pm

Thing is, Krisexy, making me a moderator or giving me editorial power over the wiki won't immediately fix or change Felarya for the better. I won't have the authority to make big changes, which is what I want to happen now and what we are discussing with this very thread. As it stands now, since development has screeched to a complete halt, the most I could probably do for the time being is fix typos. Until we finally all have an idea which direction to take the setting, I kind of want to hold off on being a mod, and I also want there to be other mods besides me because, being perfectly frank, I'm a lazy asshole.

Also, I somewhat disagree on your stance of giants knowing they are being cruel. I'm probably gonna do a poor job of it, but let me try explain what I mean by that. I agree with you that the fact that Felarya is exceedingly dangerous outside the rare safe zones like Negav should be acknowledged by most of the human cast, and be treated with the same severity as humans would if they lived in such a setting. However, having the giants know they're being cruel because they eat humans isn't necessarily how I would go with it, mainly for the same reason you listed, that Felarya should be an equally harsh place for them to live in, even if they're almost apex predators. Starvation and a poor encounter with beasts resulting in an untimely death should very much be a reality. However, because they must also be on their A game at all times if they want to survive in the wilderness, I think them acknowledging that they're being cruel for eating humans simply because they can talk really should be the least of their concern. In my mind, eating humans for them is no different than eating the non-sapient beasts that I like to think form the actual bulk of their diet, and the fact that they understand human speech is inconsequential to them. The way I like to portray most giants is that, in their minds, you either eat or you are eaten yourself or just starve to death. Good or evil the way we envision it is an alien concept to them, as surviving the next day is really what's foremost in their mind, and the humans they ate just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. One of the things that bother me most when I read Felaryan fan fiction is when a giant has a lengthy conversation with its prey, taunting and laughing about how they're going to eat them because they're giants and that's what they do, because it often breaks the immersion for me. I also realize that I did it a few times in my own stories intentionally, so no need to bring up the hypocrisy in that statement. Basically, when a giant is being all chatty to its prey, it doesn't give me the impression that these are, at their core, incredibly intelligent animals that need to feed off whatever they can get their hands on to survive. Not to say that the giants should act like actual beasts. I like characters like Crisis and Prinny's Mina because of their respective idiosyncrasies, and it would be pretty damn boring if every giants were dour, moody, and only ever talked about how they need to survive. But if they start acknowledging that eating humans is fundamentally wrong on the grounds that the language barrier doesn't exist, then why do they keep doing it? I personally find the clashing viewpoints between humans and giants one of the more interesting aspects of Felarya. How humans see giants as horrible monsters because they eat humans, while giants see humans as just another prey because the harsh environment they grew up in conditioned them to view them as such.

But hey, that's just my take on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:31 pm

Karbo wrote:

Shady Knight wrote:
And for that to succeed, what we need is better quality control.  In fact, what we need is quality control at all.  The way things are managed, if you can call it that, most contributors on the dA group are probably under the impression that Felarya is still nothing but a chaotic jungle world where giant man-eating monster girls roam free and humans are just there as fodder, and no attempt as been made to clear away this misconception.  Once - or rather, if - we can all get to a solid agreement of what the setting tones' and other quirks should be, this message should be broadcast to the entire dA community, and enforced.

I propose is that we add guides for newbies.  Less "This is how/what you should write", and more "Here are some tips you should take into consideration when writing and what you should avoid."  The SCP Foundation wiki has an excellent guide for newcomers to the setting and I'll probably be using it as a template.  It won't be just a guide for writers, but there will also be a guide for character creation and possible idea submission.  That way, there will be no excuse if a hack writer uploads something that clearly violates the themes and the kind of tone we wish to establish.

I can agree with that yeah.

I'm gonna cherry pick this particular part while I read all the things that have been said since I last read this thread.

You can easily start a new artwork series where you draw things that specifically aim toward showing DA/Eka's/etc artists that the world you draw in, is way more developed than it appears, something that shows off how far development has come - then you can watermark the bottom of the picture with one or two places to go if they want to help be a part of that visual.

It would give a clear showing that what you do, the effort someone puts in has a very real opportunity to be included in your work.

----
->On a side note, I have put forth a lot of ideas, and the only reason why I've stopped now is because of how exhausting it is to work 40 hours a week and set aside time to rack my brain for Felaryan inspiration. It does happen while at work, sometimes, but then I forget to do it when I come home because I've already worked all day long. That being said, the issue with the deletions strikes me pretty hard, particularly with the Scorpion Girls (which is what they were originally wanted to be called by the person who wrote the original idea so long ago, but whatever. Scorpisai it is), I came up with three different ideas for Pale, Marzaba, and Boulder - the latter of which Karbo expressed interest in, too, but never did anything with. Pale Scorpisai are on the wiki, and I really hope they see more light than they have.

Shameless advertisement, pages 11 and 12 of my ideas thread are filled with a bunch of really cool ideas. Including a Centaur Village, which I don't want to let die.

The next problem I see is with the immortality soil. On a fundamental, simple note, immortality in Felarya should always be a feature. There are only two features that make Felarya worthwhile to the adventurer who intended to go there - riches, and living well and far beyond their natural lifespan. The fountain of youth they have been searching for turned out to have a very ironic twist to it. To the unfortunate arrival, Felarya is a hellhole. Being able to live an exceptionally long time gives you a greater chance of finding your way back - which isn't supposed to really happen. People who wind up there on accident are trapped there. I remember what Lea said to Crisis in the mangas.

If you want to change how the soil works, that's fine, but the ability to be "immortal" for lack of a better word should always and forever be a component. We have already talked about how its theoretically possible to live for thousands of years, but 90% of inhabitants are eaten within 100 years or less.

Though it should probably be changed, because there are issues relative to how your body handles disease, the fact you cannot die from a disease in felarya. People have tried to skirt around poison, because there are some poisons that are really strong, and being able to knock out a predator with a small amount of it seems just too heavy handed. Things like using disease as a plot device I see is something that is over done.

It would be quite difficult to get around this, because things like decay and sickness come from different kinds of bacteria and other microscopic creatures that can change the balance in our bodies or invade our system which make us sick. The best you can do, is say how the immune system recognizes and counters threats to the body, and we can get so specific about this we risk a conversation on the smallest detail, and get lost on the overall point. (That has happened a lot of times here).

I believe the term "ageless" is really more accurate, since you cannot die of old age, but it should be possible, albeit very difficult to get sick, and you can always get hurt or killed. "Immortal" is a very improper use of the word, which means you will never die, which is simply not true. The term we are looking for is "ageless" where age literally does not matter. It is less of an issue. Elves in Tolkein fantasy (where Bael is inspired from), do not age. Except in Tolkein lore, elves are forever bound to Arda, can recover from all diseases, and wounds that would kill any normal person they would heal from. However, that is a novelty when Tolkein wrote that, but has since been overdone. I believe Elves should similarly have an ageless complexion, but without the other invulnerabilities.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:41 am

Bael makes some good points. The age issue is definitely something that isn't bad, it just needs a few tweaks. I never considered it a major issue because it was like flavor text in the background. Never gave it too much notice.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:07 am

It's true that the soil making humans live far longer than their average lifespan is what would entice outsiders to come to Felarya in the first place. But, once again, you have to consider the issue it represents for native humans like those in Negav, who live without fear of being eaten because of the magic predator-repelling force field. The vast, VAST majority of the people living in a place as developed as Negav logically have no reason to ever leave the city because of how terribly dangerous it is, which leaves us with an ageless, stagnant population of Negavian citizens.

And I stress that this is not an issue limited to Negav. Kortiki is arguably even safer from predation from Negav because it's some neutral ground and giant predators, not just fairies, are forbidden to eat anybody in that territory. Sure, Kortiki is a much smaller settlement than Negav and would thus not be as self-sufficient as the big city, so there would likely be a fair share of hunters going out into the woods to hunt game. And while that may sound like it's where most Kortikian casualties would occur, remember than symbiotic relationship with fairies. It's not far fetched at all that a fairy or two would accompany a hunter at all times to keep him or her safe from dangers outside. With how safe Kortiki is and with crime there being almost non-existent, we essentially have a population that never changes, and unless the birth rate is abysmally low, like one birth every 50 years or something ridiculous, we once again have the issue of overpopulation because the population can't dwindle naturally like it does in the real world. And we also have Kelerm. Now, we don't quite know how large or densely populated Kelerm is, but I get the impression that it's nowhere near the same level as Negav and thus crime rate would be far lower, reducing the odds of ever being shanked in the back someday.

The ageless factor of the soil is really nothing more than a relic from when Felarya was conceived as this nebulous jungle world where you could live forever and find riches everywhere, but you'd likely be eaten alive before you even finished that thought. With the direction Felarya has taken over the years, the fact that people don't age has become an obsolete concept, no longer fitting with the rest of the elements that form the setting. The only way I could see people remaining ageless in Felarya is if places like Negav and Kortiki were far less well defended against predators, forcing even the most average of joe to have to leave the city for one reason or another. But in the case of Negav, that would mean completely rebuilding the entire city from scratch so that it's much smaller and doesn't have an interdimensional portal hauling supplies in from other worlds, which is another thing people are not gonna be on board with changing. Either way, if we want this to work, something has to be destroyed along the way. We can't have our cake and eat it too.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:26 am

Shady Knight wrote:
It's true that the soil making humans live far longer than their average lifespan is what would entice outsiders to come to Felarya in the first place.  But, once again, you have to consider the issue it represents for native humans like those in Negav, who live without fear of being eaten because of the magic predator-repelling force field.  The vast, VAST majority of the people living in a place as developed as Negav logically have no reason to ever leave the city because of how terribly dangerous it is, which leaves us with an ageless, stagnant population of Negavian citizens.

Specifically this, brings up an important concept, that if farmed foods on Felaryan Soil will help you stay ageless - and the limited farm space Negavian territory has, means that those who are rich and wealthy can afford the premium Felarya-organic foods. Meaning you can create this idea that those who are middle class and poor, cannot get access, they age and die, have to work and may live longer than normal, but only the rich get access to the good stuff - making Negav a little more dark/dystopian.

Otherwise I disagree. The Ageless component is extremely important, and it is the biggest draw next to treasure.


On the issue of Kortiki and overpopulation - a city or town that exists would be aware of its general population size. If people cannot get enough food, or extra resources to feed and raise another person, then they wont, because they wont be able to handle it. Otherwise you have a population with creatures that are generally friendly and playful, and then somehow are also totally ignorant of basic living standards. I think the idea that Kortiki never changes is a bit contradictory.

Though you do make some good points. I still think the soil needs reworking, I just don't feel like removing the ageless attribute altogether is good.
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PostSubject: Re: Change list   Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:57 am

I'd still argue that it doesn't need to be agelessness; just a significantly increased lifespan would be enough of an incentive along with the rumored riches to attract greedy adventurers to Felarya.  But at this point, I'd rather wait for Karbo to give his input on the matter.  Your idea of Felaryan grown food being a factor in the general hardiness and strong health of Felaryan individuals is interesting, however, I don't think making Negav a dystopia is a good idea.  It's not a perfect place to live to be certain, but I sincerely doubt Karbo ever envisioned the place as a dystopia.

For the time being, let's just agree to disagree.

Anyways, here are a couple of more minor changes I would do to Felarya.


  1. The trees.  They need to be bigger.  Felarya is supposedly super massive compared to what lives on Earth, but when examined closely, the trees are way too puny.  Not helping this matter is that their size is very inconsistent in Karbo's drawings.  In one, they appear taller than an average giant.  In another, they appear no bigger than shrubbery.  And sometimes, both at once.  As a rule of thumb, I like to base my creations on something that already exists in real life as a point of reference.

    The largest species of tree on Earth is the giant sequoia.  According to wikipedia, they grow to an average height of 50 to 85 meters, or 164-279 feet tall, and have an average trunk diameter of 6-8 meters, or 20-26 feet.  Record trees have been measured to reach a height of 95.8 meters, translating roughly to 311 feet tall.  The single tallest tree on Earth, a coast redwood by the name of Hyperion, reaches a staggering height of 115.92 meters tall, barely taller than 380 feet.  But, if you've seen photos, it is not the single largest tree as its trunk is too narrow.  That honor instead goes to General Sherman, with a height of nearly 275 feet, a circumference of 102.6 feet, and a diameter of 32.7 feet.  Combined together, these numbers total a whopping bole volume of 52 508 cubic feet, or 1 486.9 cubic meters.

    Now for comparison.  Drayla in the wiki is listed as 143 feet tall, shorter than an average giant sequoia.  Cypress fares a little better with a height of 188 ft, but that would only make her the 48th largest tree to exist on Earth.  We're supposed to believe that these sizes are impressive, but a quick search on wikipedia reveals that these supposed great giants are really nothing special.  There is only one dryad whose size comes the closest to matching how big I think Karbo intended Felarya to look like, and she isn't even listed in the wiki.  I'm talking about Kikijonson's Jewlia.  According to her most recent bio, she stands at over 286 ft, making her slightly larger than the largest tree on Earth.  But, even then, it still wouldn't make her the absolute tallest tree on Earth.

    In my opinion, the trees of Felarya, which include dryads, need to be given a big boost in size, otherwise they just come across as far too small for how big Felarya really is supposed to be.  The way I personally see it, a typical tree in Felarya would be the size of some of the largest giant sequoias ever recorded on Earth, easily measuring well over 200 ft in height, with larger specimen in tropical regions like Tolmeshal Jungle being even taller and often breaking the 300 ft mark.  Massive trees, the kind of trees that would be so large that their branches are essentially smaller trees themselves, would be even bigger, capable of growing to staggering heights of over 1000 ft.  This would make it more believable that some like a giant pantaur or naga could hide in one of these behemoths.  Moreover, it would make the Giant Tree seem all the more impressive that it makes even these colossi look downright puny by comparison.  Although, we may also want to add a clause that no Dryad can ever be one of those massive 1000+ ft tall trees, just so people don't make Mega Dryads.

  2. Related to the above, I think we could tweak a couple of sub-races to be based off of real life animals.  One example that immediately comes to mind are the Leviathan Mermaids.  I remember way earlier in the settings history that there once was a sub-race of mermaids called Royal Mermaids, whose gist was that they had the lower body of a whale.  They've long since been deleted.  So, why not use that idea to make Leviathan Mermaids essentially whale mermaids?  After all, whales are the largest animals to live on Earth and they're all marine creatures?  Wouldn't their size be a perfect fit for the Leviathan Mermaids?  We've got a number of minor races we could breathe new life into if we did just that.  Like, instead of making Razias their own separate race that nobody cares about, let's turn them into an offshoot of harpies based on flightless birds instead, mainly emus and ostriches.

  3. The rules governing Necromancy ought to be rewritten, because at this point, it isn't about Necromancy not working on Felarya so much as it's about magic that interferes with the cycle of life and death does not work, and creating undead monsters just happens to fall into that category.  It needs that extra precision in my opinion so that people don't misinterpret the rule as "You can't create undeads, but you can totally resurrect a dead party member."  Here are some cliff notes on how the rule should work in my mind in the form of clauses:


    • Magic that restores life to a deceased creature always fail.
    • Magic that attempts to reincarnate a dead creature into another body always fail.
    • Magic that turn corpses into undeads, or create undeads at all, always fail.
    • Magic that traps a newly dead soul inside a container works; however, the soul cannot be used to animate a dead body.
    • If a soul is transferred into a golem body, it does not grant the soul new life in an artificial body.  The soul merely acts as a core that animates the body.  The resulting golem or animate armor remains mindless and otherwise exhibits no personality trait from the soul that empowers it.


I added the clause on reincarnation because, in D&D, there is a variation on the resurrection spells that reincarnates a dead character into a different body, so I made sure it was included to avoid a potential loophole.  I also added the clause about how a soul can't be used to create a situation a la Full Metal Alchemist because I see it as yet another loophole that could be exploited.  I know it happened once before, but in hindsight, this was a glaring mistake to make given that the whole point of this rule was to ensure death was never devalued.

  • Lastly, and I know I'm the only one who'll ever suggest this, but I think we should get rid of the translation spell and replace it with the simple explanation that there is no language barrier on Felarya, and that people are trying to figure out why that is.  I get that Karbo wants to handwave things less often as of now, even if a wizard literally did it this time, ironically enough, but I find the explanation as to why everyone can speak English to be laughable.   It's going to sound weird, but there is such a thing as explaining too much, and sometimes, the lack of a clear explanation just adds to the mystique.  I know it's a cliché example, but take The Force from Star Wars.  I think we can all agree that it was way more interesting when it was this nebulous background... well, force, that we were all connected to, instead of being microbes.  That's how I feel about the translation spell.  Plus, the idea that a wizard could cast a spell that not only covered the entirety of the world, but also lasted millenia, is just completely ridiculous to me.  In my mind, no mortal could ever pull such a feat, even if he was the most powerful wizard in existence.  It would take a god to be able to do this.  But again, that's just me, and I know for a fact that not a single one of you will agree with me on this one.


  • Oh, one last small change. Let's stop calling Ryzelm'oire a Chlaena settlement, because Karbo's drawing of the place makes it pretty clear that it's really a city for aquatic races in general and not just octopi people. Hell, you can see a lot more mermaids in that picture than chlaenas.
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    PostSubject: Re: Change list   Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:31 am

    I agree about trees specifically. I have been saying that for years as well, they're supposed to be massive. How big are trees compared to us? If its scaled up to be on the same level as the giant creatures, those trees should be even taller. Hence why the idea of mining trees has been brought up.

    I'm also going to agree on both the necromancy issue, and the translation spell. The necromancy issue simply because it does need to be refined a bit.

    For the translation spell...I mean I like the feature. I just think its so blindingly hand waived its almost more comedic than a serious idea. It should just be a mystery, honestly. That's it. It could be a great source for legends and myths, people wondering why all these different creatures can understand one another. Nobody really knows. Maybe someone did something tens of thousands of years ago, but there's no evidence for it.
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    PostSubject: Re: Change list   Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:39 pm

    Just when I think we're all in agreement I hear we should chick the translation spell. WHY?! It works, it gave us one of first famous named mages,it works, it's unique oh and did I mention it works? =3 Because that's a big thing here. Like stiff in the Discworld it's funny and actually functions. Yes it came annoying how you can't make a dirty joke in Klingon, share secrets using pig Latin or what have you get on other worlds but aren't we forgeting one teensy, weensy, little small seemingly insignificant detail? It works. If it ain't broke don't fuck with it.

    Mining trees I like. Unique looking and interesting. Also explains how you get anything made of wood from a world where the trees are so massively big your huge three tiered city barely reaches their trunk, and that's a sappling.

    Reincarnation has been officially banned and people, including me especially ,ignored it or got around it. There is the offworld loop hole that's canon as well as the argument that if there's ghosts theres shades and thus possession in play.

    Love the idea that the soil's energy leeches into the food and those who eat it become ageless and more prone to healing and using the already set in place class system creates a die off to balance the over population problems and explains why non dare devil's delve into Felarya's depths risking death. It's for money to buy food and work their way to to the upper tiers. This needs to be written and the issue closed.
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    PostSubject: Re: Change list   Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:06 pm

    ...Okay, Jedi, you need to come up with better justifications beyond "it's unique" and "it works", because that's weaker than weak.
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    PostSubject: Re: Change list   Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:46 pm

    Water-Nebula wrote:
    Amethyst wrote:
    Having a different process of digestion/some different anatomy then real life would be nice. Digestion wouldn't have to be horrendously painful/disgusting, and prey would last longer than 10 seconds, before they drown/suffocate. Also their is alot of other things that would be nice to have work differently in Felarya.

    While admittedly this did slightly deter me at first because I fell in love with the world of felarya over the vore, I'm not sure if it would make sense to change. First and foremost it is a soft vore story with digestion and predators, changing it to something less brutal would defeat the point of Felarya being a primeval and extremely dangerous world
    You would still die, so it is just as dangerous.
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    PostSubject: Re: Change list   Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:27 pm

    Shady Knight wrote:
    ...Okay, Jedi, you need to come up with better justifications beyond "it's unique" and "it works", because that's weaker than weak.

    Actually no. Works should be enough. If you have a life support system that works fine you do not tear it out of the biome and rebuild it for no reason. This will kill you and your team and likely violate your agreement with NASA or Space X. Now let's try this in non metaphorical terms...

    The Translation spell functions currently. There are no hiccups other when somebody doesn't account for it. Universal translator malfunction tropes don't work so what.Iy makes so that as long as you are in Felarya you can have somebody speak Acient Aramaic and another guy speak Earth English Circa 3,000,000 AD and they understand one another. Now he's it does mean that Archeologists are more written skills than spoken but that in itself is intriguing and yes Unique.

    As for why unique should make you not only satisfied but elated it's really simple: it's rare and a great recruiting tool, which we already agree we need. I know several worlds with laser based weapons but I come back to Star Wars because it's unique. I love Tolkien but I am twice as likely to make a Discworld meme because again it's unique. I've used many D20 systems but D&D is still the most unique. Innovation is fine but uniqueness sells pitches. I bet if you asked people why they stick with Felarya they would say it's unlike anything they have seen before.

    That enough reason?
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