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Karbo
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PostSubject: Getting back into things   Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:49 am

So the forum has grinded to a halt and is pretty much dead at the moment. I apologize again for having let things go this way..
I'm well aware that stop in activity discouraged many people and drove some members away altogether. But I want to make clear I remain committed to Felarya and that i think that little word has still a lot of way to go :3

here are some of the potential subjects and development that could be on the table for the wiki I think :

-dryads swallow and Succubus energies ( brought up by Vaderaz )

-Acheron fauna ( brought up by Stabs )

-immortality revision ( brought up by Shadyknight )

-Taprams ( brought up by Gwadahunter )

And the city Kelermn

Moreover, I'm considering the possibility of perhaps moving to a new forum? both to mark a new start and also to give it a new look as this one starts to looks quite severally outdated and with a very antiquated PM system. Maybe others means of communication such as discord could also be useful in the future to discuss various ideas ? †just some paths to explore. Please feel free to discuss and give your opinion Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:03 pm

There's one more thing you should consider developing on the wiki: http://felarya.forumotion.com/t4185-mermaid-update-new-mermaid-sub-races
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:58 pm

What exactly do you mean by dryads swallow and succubus energies?

Also, if that is your idea Karbo, will this forum be archived? I would really miss it if not, as I do check in pretty much every day.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:39 am

While I am aware that I was the one to suggest a new forum, I have to ask for what purpose you mean we use it, chief. At the moment, there ain't much of a following interested in development.

If you do manage to scrounge up a dozen or so firebrands, please make sure you're clearer than before on what you up to doing. If you cannot change up the pace and structure of the development, it's just gonna fizzle out again no matter what.

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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:03 am

I'm all up for some new ideas although I'm not good at responding to what others have written, which is something I need to work on.

A new forum could be a good idea for a fresh start but it could also lead to people not finding the way there.

As for discord we already have one set up: https://discord.gg/u8gs24e (Thanks Bael.)

The lack of creativity lately feels to me personally like people are afraid of suggesting ideas due to the fear of getting criticised. (I'm just never finished with my ideas and refuse to post them while they are unfinished hence why I haven't posted anything useful in ages.)

Anyways, good to see you back and I hope it'll bring some new life onto the forum.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:37 pm

iZyren wrote:


The lack of creativity lately feels to me personally like people are afraid of suggesting ideas due to the fear of getting criticised. (I'm just never finished with my ideas and refuse to post them while they are unfinished hence why I haven't posted anything useful in ages.)

Jesus fucking christ, here we go again....

*Deep breath*

I don't think that is the case.

I think people stopped posting because they felt not enougth people were showing interest in their ideas. When you have a community of world builders who are not united in working towards a particular vision, they are just going to do their own thing (regardless if it makes any sense for the setting or not) and this has been completely encouraged by Karbo who pretty much cliamed that "anything can be Felarya"

The problem with this is just because you made something.......doesn't mean people will like it.....or even understand what the appeal is surposed to be. There can be many reasons for this, mabye due to bad writing, lack of context, or simply because the idea is based around ideas that other community members arn't well versed in or interested in.
For example, if someone was to make a felarya character obviously inspired by shonen, I proberly will never reply to it...I don't like shonen...I don't get the appeal of shonen...I literally don't understand what some people see in shonen....so how can I give helpful feeback? How can I sincerely help someone write a good shonen inspired character when as far as I am concerned, the only good shonens are the ones that are the satire ones that take the piss out of the genre?
I simply can't, unless I do so in bad faith...and I don't believe anyone should act inauthentically about anything (one of the leading causes of hyprocrisy.)

Simply put, If someone can't even understand your work, they will struggle to give constructive critism, regardless of how much you badger them into giving you feedback.....in fact, true helpful constructive critism is might be utterly impossible in the felarya community given the lack of a unified vision...and therefore has no basic standard that someone's work can be cristised against. In the past the wiki has been used as the standard measuring stick in order to critise a peice of work....but that is flawed because the wiki also had no vision behind it and is merely a kicthen sink of ideas cobbled together and is completely contradictory, leading to many artists getting frustrated when they realised the critism they had been taking to heart for many years is complete bullshit, and has been merely felarya members cherry picking what parts of the wiki they personally liked and decided to use as the golden rule.

And that is what happened...people woke up. They woke up to how much of a mess the felarya world building effort had been.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:58 pm

I'm open to new ideas, sure. I haven't been active on here lately and that's partly my fault as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:08 am

Stabs wrote:
While I am aware that I was the one to suggest a new forum, I have to ask for what purpose you mean we use it, chief. At the moment, there ain't much of a following interested in development.

If you do manage to scrounge up a dozen or so firebrands, please make sure you're clearer than before on what you up to doing. If you cannot change up the pace and structure of the development, it's just gonna fizzle out again no matter what.

DarkOne wrote:
Jesus fucking christ, here we go again....

*Deep breath*

I don't think that is the case.

I think people stopped posting because they felt not enougth people were showing interest in their ideas. When you have a community of world builders who are not united in working towards a particular vision, they are just going to do their own thing (regardless if it makes any sense for the setting or not) and this has been completely encouraged by Karbo who pretty much cliamed that "anything can be Felarya"

The problem with this is just because you made something.......doesn't mean people will like it.....or even understand what the appeal is surposed to be. There can be many reasons for this, mabye due to bad writing, lack of context, or simply because the idea is based around ideas that other community members arn't well versed in or interested in.
For example, if someone was to make a felarya character obviously inspired by shonen, I proberly will never reply to it...I don't like shonen...I don't get the appeal of shonen...I literally don't understand what some people see in shonen....so how can I give helpful feeback? How can I sincerely help someone write a good shonen inspired character when as far as I am concerned, the only good shonens are the ones that are the satire ones that take the piss out of the genre?
I simply can't, unless I do so in bad faith...and I don't believe anyone should act inauthentically about anything (one of the leading causes of hyprocrisy.)

Simply put, If someone can't even understand your work, they will struggle to give constructive critism, regardless of how much you badger them into giving you feedback.....in fact, true helpful constructive critism is might be utterly impossible in the felarya community given the lack of a unified vision...and therefore has no basic standard that someone's work can be cristised against. In the past the wiki has been used as the standard measuring stick in order to critise a peice of work....but that is flawed because the wiki also had no vision behind it and is merely a kicthen sink of ideas cobbled together and is completely contradictory, leading to many artists getting frustrated when they realised the critism they had been taking to heart for many years is complete bullshit, and has been merely felarya members cherry picking what parts of the wiki they personally liked and decided to use as the golden rule.

And that is what happened...people woke up. They woke up to how much of a mess the felarya world building effort had been.

You know things are bad when Dark suddenly remembered he can use his keyboard to type words and not just post links to YouTube videos.

Seriously though, this is exactly what I've been saying for a little while now, that this lack of a roadmap is a big factor in what led us to this current state of affairs. And I have proof that I'm not the only one thinking the same thing. Last month, a short thread appeared on Eka's forum, in Karbo's own sub-forum no less, about how there are less and less people writing for Felarya. The common reply from the few that responded to the initial post is that they have no idea what Felarya seems to even be about. When Eka's fucking portal is asking what the hell happened, and is even making sense of Felarya's current state of affairs, you know something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.

Here's the thread in question: https://aryion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=53246

Now, I was ready to go on a rant about how this Anything Goes approach to Felarya is unsustainable, but truth to be told, I don't think it even matters at this point. I'll be blunt: I don't think Felarya can be salvaged at this point. All the people who were passionate about developing Felarya are gone for a variety of reasons. A lack of a concrete roadmap, a lack of communication, a creator who doesn't contribute and seems to be taken his own contributors for granted, just to name a few. The only ones who are still interested in Felarya at this point are people who only care about the vore, giantess, nudity and yuri. They're satisfied now, but it's only a matter of time before they too grow bored and migrate to someplace else. Even if Karbo were to make a sudden 180į and start fresh with a Felarya, with a much more cohesive vision and a hell of a let more active contribution on his part, not just drawing vore pictures, it's only going to alienate those same people because, suddenly, this isn't their Felarya anymore.

This is just the kind of state Felarya is in now. Any change we do now, no matter how drastic, is just too little too late at this point.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:45 pm

So we should close the forum and the wiki ?

To be honest one of the biggest problem is how to unite a community around a particular vision when the greatest point of division was the vore, was left unaddressed with no clear resolution at all. Now the people who are into vore contributes on the patreon and they have what they want. People who want world building stuff they have the leftovers after most of the major contributions were done by a group of person you can count on the palm of a hand.

The major issue about the contributions despite Karbo claimed no one has the true vision of what is Felarya when only a few had their ideas in the wiki. People who had their chance once the blue moon without any possibilities to know where to improve. And despite people trying to help them their situation didn't change. This situation led to gatekeeping and other stuff where if your ideas fit and didn't contradict or oppose to some people point of view maybe you will have the chance to have your ideas into the wiki.

And I don't speak about the whole credits debacle where people that plague the community where people get in trouble because they don't credit the creator of a specific races, faunas, flora or location. Even if I understand about the characters, which are very personal and specific. But when someone goes on the wiki, "hey I like this idea, I will use it on my story." You had the contributor behind it and told you. "Hey who give you the right to use my idea without my permission and without crediting me." It plagued the community many months and even years, and made picking any idea from the wiki was a potential landmine.

We can add many short lived interesting topics like the chronology, the weapons died after one of two ideas made their way to the wiki.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:03 am

Well I'm not going to lie or trying to sugarcoat it, †things are not looking good at the moment. Motivation is out of the windows as evident in this thread and it has created a bad self-feeding circle and I know the responsibility of that lie entirely on me..

I don't think it's as hopeless as you guys say though. Circle works both ways. We're in a spiral of negativity right now but I believe it can be turned around and the flame can be reignited if there is the will behind it..

For the worldbuilding, yes there are many impasses and things that clash with each others. I don't think it's an hopeless mess though. There are also a lot of very good and solid things in Felarya and that can be build upon..

On my end, for starter, right after that week-end I'm going to create the threads for the topic I mentioned and make a huge wiki update.

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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:28 am

I prefer everyone empty their bag now instead keep it for years

My main complaints is the wiki failed at its role to provide background tools for people to use for stories and RP based on Felarya. If we remove the characters' section which is just a template to help create characters and it's very important to have the original creators agreement to use them. All the other section should be free to use without necessary crediting the original creators or ask their permission, it's a common ground for everyone.

I understand contributors can fear to see the core concept of their creation change and look something different but the wiki goal is not just to say your idea is official but you agree to share it with the rest of the community and some members can add things they didn't think about it as it long as it improves and not change the core concept behind the original creation.

Now about the characters' section, it should have a specific status in opposition to the rest of the wiki as people must ask before use a character and discuss with the creator how they plan to use the character. In character's page link to their deviant art or twitter or tumblr to send private message, I'm against e-mail as it's an open door for spam, phishing and more...

I can understand people don't like to see their idea in a specific way, I think specifically about the relationship race, the culture and the characters. It can be a source of conflicts when a character is created, some authors create a race and culture for the said character. It become an issue when someone depict the race and culture in a different light intended by the original creators who can take it personally as an offence because it's tied to their characters. Clear separation should be made because the race and culture are what a character but not who it is.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:41 pm

...Since I can't even quote using my phone it is a little hard to defend this forum as still useable lol But I Will say this to the commentnazbove about the wiki failing it's role: No it most certainly hasn't done any such thing. I use it all the time to get info and I've seen plenty of other writers and RPers do it too. †As for removing the characters section? Uhh no? That's a big draw to the wiki for the non info seekers and a valuable resource to the cameo writers.

Opening the whole wiki to where anyone can edit it is inviting Wikipedia first year problems without a massive staff of mods and admins. Not saying it's not doable but honestly I think the system I preposed is best: a section of the forum where people post ideas and Karbo and a small creative council review them and approve. Karbo has infinite veto power and it must be stated that if you leave in a tizzy fit over Karbo taking away your "seal of canonical approval" you can't just rip an idea out of the wiki. . . . I really liked the roman-esque harpies populating the Iracal Islands. I spent time making a character and an episode of my story based on them only to look up and see it drcanonized because Heavenless Star got into a creative despute! That was physical time I lost and my heart still aches. Now so that it's not just one sided I also think we need to work with creators having disputes and try to resolve more of them peacefully so we don't have more exodus'. We have had good success with this on the discord group I would add. We use temp bans sure but also words to try not to lose people because when you make enemies of people it just spreads hate and loses us good resources and most importantly good people.

Oh and when we lose people could we not demonize them? I know even I do that but I'm trying not to. Some of the characters and creators who left us left angry but some are happier in their new environs and I am.happy for them because of you don't like it here you should find a nice space in which to reside. And the trolls and flamers that were given a chance but kept being disruptive or demanding we do things their way or hit the high way? Pssh. Frack em.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:44 pm

It's not because you are using the wiki it doesn't mean everyone do it. I didn't speak about remove the characters section you misinterpret my point.
My point is not to turn wiki like wikipedia neither.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:18 pm

Yeah I must admit I've lost a lot of motivation.

Which is depressing because there are ideas I want to type up, and I cant find the motivation to do that.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:28 pm

If I'm allowed to chime in, as a completely new member who's lurking for just the past week or so...

I'm kinda aware of how things work here - people write things on their own and Karbo decides whether or not to make them canon and 'official', and updates the wiki accordingly.

But my question is, what does 'official' actually mean?

I just got the comics (the only piece of published storytelling that Karbo's done themselves, as far as I'm aware) and read through them today. They were excellent and worth the money - they were what prompted me to actually make an account here. But, I was shocked at how little information the comics have shown compared to what's on the wiki. There's 90 characters listed on there, but so far we've only ever seen...

...Drayla, Alvar, Melany, Subeta, Jora, Belletia, Lea, Marken, Mezzus, Ramtov Telekline, Lady Lesona, Lord Gramon, Anko, Anna, Crisis, Fiona, Vivian, Thas Voidfingers, and Zil in the comics. 19 characters.

I'm probably missing a few that were glanced over during the big 'Search for Lea' scenes or in other places, but even when I add on a pretty generous six, it still means that only a fourth of the characters (25/90) have been shown in any official storytelling capacity. I'm aware that a lot more have gotten artwork, but unfortunately, that artwork is really kinda just sitting in a personal gallery, and on top of that...to be blunt, I don't think that art alone can build a world.

It's certainly a factor, don't get me wrong. But in the end, the stories that the artwork inspires are far more important. The history of treasures that lie underneath, the actions of the people that lie on the surface, the goals and aspirations of the individuals and civilizations that live there...it's not that art can't tell these stories, but they only ever show a single scene, frozen in time. And in a world, things change, things grow, things die...a world has to be put into motion, first, before it can be pushed along. If you want ideas, if you want elaboration, if you want a world to grow and move, someone has to start the process. And someone has keep that process going.

And right now, there's only one person that can really do either: you, Karbo. You're literally bearing the weight of an entire world on your shoulders, and very, very few people can do that successfully.

I know that there are 'official' stories that aren't the comics, but my question is, where are they? Sitting in someone's deviantart account, waiting for the sole proprietor of the world to decide whether or not they're worthy to get a stamp of approval...before it's inevitably tossed back into the queue of 'waiting to be used'? No one person has the amount of time to use everything. You only have to look at the disparity between the wiki and the official story to see that.

And on top of that, when that sole proprietor is on record saying things like "its general direction has always remained entirely mine to decide and I'am not answerable to anybody", "I'm on the driver seat and members don't decide on the route ahead", and "contributing a non-character idea to Felarya means giving up artistic control *as well* as legal ownership on it", it actively discourages discussion - because only one person can ever really decide how 'worthy' or 'useful' an idea is. If someone makes an idea, if someone puts their heart and soul on the line to propose something...all they can really ever get out of it is having that idea snatched away and put into the sole proprietor's private queue, or have it ignored entirely.

And like I said, that's not how discussion works. Why would anyone ever propose something if that's all they're ever going to get out of it?

So, Karbo...I have to ask you what your end goal is, here. Is it to build a community where "everyone could propose their ideas and participate in the elaboration of [Felarya]"? Because that's not what's happening now. Believe me, I understand why you have things organized this way, I would probably do the exact same thing if I opened up a personal project to the public. But from an outside perspective...you haven't created a community. Intentional or not, despite opening things up to the public, you're still the only one that can really build the world, you're still the only one that can edit the wiki or publish any official content.

This isn't a place where everyone can propose their ideas and participate.

This is one person asking a host of people to build their world for them; it's a monarch asking their peasants for gold but is only able to give them scraps in return. It's not entirely the monarch's fault, they're only only person and they can only do so much work. But when they insist that only they are allowed to grow food, despite the hundreds of peasants eager and willing to grow food to share with everyone else...they can only give scraps out, because that's all they can make by themselves.

Despite that, things are fine, and people are surviving, if only barely. But if the monarch ever has to leave, if they ever have to attend to something else...

...I don't know what the solution to this is, because I know you want to keep your food high quality, good tasting, and everything else.

But as things are now, if the monarch ever leaves, everyone's going to end up starving.

And it looks like that's already happened.




And, finally...if anyone actually read all of this, I'm sorry for making way too many assumptions and for saying something that's way out of line, especially for someone that literally just joined today. I'm not really aware of how things worked or work here, and if anyone feels like it's deserved, then I fully understand a ban for overstepping my boundaries...

...but I really like this world.

I think it's incredibly unique, and lets people explore things and concepts that can't be explored anywhere else.

I don't want to see it die, or at the very least, I don't want to see the community behind it die, but that's all I can see if things continue the way they're going. If the author wants things to continue, if they want to continue having a community that can have discussions, that can build and develop not their world, but a world...

...something has to change.

Because like I said, nobody can bear the weight of an entire world on their back by themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:03 am

DarkOne wrote:
iZyren wrote:


The lack of creativity lately feels to me personally like people are afraid of suggesting ideas due to the fear of getting criticised. (I'm just never finished with my ideas and refuse to post them while they are unfinished hence why I haven't posted anything useful in ages.)

Jesus fucking christ, here we go again....

*Deep breath*

I don't think that is the case.

I think people stopped posting because they felt not enougth people were showing interest in their ideas. When you have a community of world builders who are not united in working towards a particular vision, they are just going to do their own thing (regardless if it makes any sense for the setting or not) and this has been completely encouraged by Karbo who pretty much cliamed that "anything can be Felarya"

The problem with this is just because you made something.......doesn't mean people will like it.....or even understand what the appeal is surposed to be. There can be many reasons for this, mabye due to bad writing, lack of context, or simply because the idea is based around ideas that other community members arn't well versed in or interested in.
For example, if someone was to make a felarya character obviously inspired by shonen, I proberly will never reply to it...I don't like shonen...I don't get the appeal of shonen...I literally don't understand what some people see in shonen....so how can I give helpful feeback? How can I sincerely help someone write a good shonen inspired character when as far as I am concerned, the only good shonens are the ones that are the satire ones that take the piss out of the genre?
I simply can't, unless I do so in bad faith...and I don't believe anyone should act inauthentically about anything (one of the leading causes of hyprocrisy.)

This is what i wanted to say, i just chose the wrong way to express it and it ended with a more awful outcome. Thanks for fixing it!

Patrolboat; as far as I know 'official' means content that can be used in Karbo's own stories along with content that gets posted on the wiki.

Monarchy? Well I think I would call it more of a mutual cooperation. I think the monarchy is about to go over to a bit of a parlimentary system with Karbo still having the final word. (This is just me speculating though.)

I don't think you can get banned for speaking about your opinions and thoughts since if so many more would have been banned.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:00 am

Portalboat wrote:
If I'm allowed to chime in, as a completely new member who's lurking for just the past week or so...

I'm kinda aware of how things work here - people write things on their own and Karbo decides whether or not to make them canon and 'official', and updates the wiki accordingly.

But my question is, what does 'official' actually mean?

I just got the comics (the only piece of published storytelling that Karbo's done themselves, as far as I'm aware) and read through them today. They were excellent and worth the money - they were what prompted me to actually make an account here. But, I was shocked at how little information the comics have shown compared to what's on the wiki. There's 90 characters listed on there, but so far we've only ever seen...

...Drayla, Alvar, Melany, Subeta, Jora, Belletia, Lea, Marken, Mezzus, Ramtov Telekline, Lady Lesona, Lord Gramon, Anko, Anna, Crisis, Fiona, Vivian, Thas Voidfingers, and Zil in the comics. 19 characters.

I'm probably missing a few that were glanced over during the big 'Search for Lea' scenes or in other places, but even when I add on a pretty generous six, it still means that only a fourth of the characters (25/90) have been shown in any official storytelling capacity. I'm aware that a lot more have gotten artwork, but unfortunately, that artwork is really kinda just sitting in a personal gallery, and on top of that...to be blunt, I don't think that art alone can build a world.

The evidence would disagree. Many comics are just comics, with no novelizations or compendiums. I would go so far as to say it's the norm.

Besides, for a fairly long time, there was a wiki and no comic, albeit there had been plans for one. And had you seen the early wiki, I don't think we'd agree that someone was trying to build a world. Earliest wiki was just a compendium of things Karbo had liked.

Portalboat wrote:
It's certainly a factor, don't get me wrong. But in the end, the stories that the artwork inspires are far more important. The history of treasures that lie underneath, the actions of the people that lie on the surface, the goals and aspirations of the individuals and civilizations that live there...it's not that art can't tell these stories, but they only ever show a single scene, frozen in time. And in a world, things change, things grow, things die...a world has to be put into motion, first, before it can be pushed along. If you want ideas, if you want elaboration, if you want a world to grow and move, someone has to start the process. And someone has keep that process going.

And right now, there's only one person that can really do either: you, Karbo. You're literally bearing the weight of an entire world on your shoulders, and very, very few people can do that successfully.

I know that there are 'official' stories that aren't the comics, but my question is, where are they? Sitting in someone's deviantart account, waiting for the sole proprietor of the world to decide whether or not they're worthy to get a stamp of approval...before it's inevitably tossed back into the queue of 'waiting to be used'? No one person has the amount of time to use everything. You only have to look at the disparity between the wiki and the official story to see that.
There is no such thing as officiality for the stories that aren't in the comics. There was never such a thing, and they still got written, because that was never the point. Some of them directly deviate from current canon, some of them completely ignored even contemporary canon at the time of writing, and plenty of them were embraced no matter what.

I cannot see officiality as relevant in light of that.

Portalboat wrote:
And on top of that, when that sole proprietor is on record saying things like "its general direction has always remained entirely mine to decide and I'am not answerable to anybody", "I'm on the driver seat and members don't decide on the route ahead", and "contributing a non-character idea to Felarya means giving up artistic control *as well* as legal ownership on it", it actively discourages discussion - because only one person can ever really decide how 'worthy' or 'useful' an idea is. If someone makes an idea, if someone puts their heart and soul on the line to propose something...all they can really ever get out of it is having that idea snatched away and put into the sole proprietor's private queue, or have it ignored entirely.

And like I said, that's not how discussion works. Why would anyone ever propose something if that's all they're ever going to get out of it?
For most people, what you say is true, and lacking a say or a stake means basically that there are better things to do with your time, such as playing videogames or developing their own worlds.
Some of us enjoy the discussion for its own sake, but as it turned out, Karbo's model was built on assuming everyone was like this- that we'd simply discuss things, offer up ideas, without ever wanting for more.

Portalboat wrote:
So, Karbo...I have to ask you what your end goal is, here. Is it to build a community where "everyone could propose their ideas and participate in the elaboration of [Felarya]"? Because that's not what's happening now. Believe me, I understand why you have things organized this way, I would probably do the exact same thing if I opened up a personal project to the public. But from an outside perspective...you haven't created a community. Intentional or not, despite opening things up to the public, you're still the only one that can really build the world, you're still the only one that can edit the wiki or publish any official content.

This isn't a place where everyone can propose their ideas and participate.

This is one person asking a host of people to build their world for them; it's a monarch asking their peasants for gold but is only able to give them scraps in return. It's not entirely the monarch's fault, they're only only person and they can only do so much work. But when they insist that only they are allowed to grow food, despite the hundreds of peasants eager and willing to grow food to share with everyone else...they can only give scraps out, because that's all they can make by themselves.
Karbo doesn't give people scraps- he doesn't give anything at all: he really doesn't have anything to give. The only things he controls that we don't are the wiki and his own artistic skills. He really can't give us anything more than a bravo (which he rarely withholds), a canonisation (for what little it does), a picture (which are booked solid), or a say in the development- which he's adamantly rejected.
Karbo's model openly relies on us wanting to develop Felarya as an end in itself.

Portalboat wrote:
Despite that, things are fine, and people are surviving, if only barely. But if the monarch ever has to leave, if they ever have to attend to something else...

...I don't know what the solution to this is, because I know you want to keep your food high quality, good tasting, and everything else.

But as things are now, if the monarch ever leaves, everyone's going to end up starving.

And it looks like that's already happened.
You are stretching the analogy way too much.

Portalboat wrote:
And, finally...if anyone actually read all of this, I'm sorry for making way too many assumptions and for saying something that's way out of line, especially for someone that literally just joined today. I'm not really aware of how things worked or work here, and if anyone feels like it's deserved, then I fully understand a ban for overstepping my boundaries...

...but I really like this world.

I think it's incredibly unique, and lets people explore things and concepts that can't be explored anywhere else.

I don't want to see it die, or at the very least, I don't want to see the community behind it die, but that's all I can see if things continue the way they're going. If the author wants things to continue, if they want to continue having a community that can have discussions, that can build and develop not their world, but a world...

...something has to change.

Because like I said, nobody can bear the weight of an entire world on their back by themselves.
See there? That's what Karbo's model relies on- on you taking an interest in Felarya strong enough to help even without a stake or a say on it. It used to work, and it still does sometimes, but no longer reliably or consistently.

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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:56 am

Portalboat wrote:
If I'm allowed to chime in, as a completely new member who's lurking for just the past week or so...

I'm kinda aware of how things work here - people write things on their own and Karbo decides whether or not to make them canon and 'official', and updates the wiki accordingly.

But my question is, what does 'official' actually mean?

I just got the comics (the only piece of published storytelling that Karbo's done themselves, as far as I'm aware) and read through them today. They were excellent and worth the money - they were what prompted me to actually make an account here. But, I was shocked at how little information the comics have shown compared to what's on the wiki. There's 90 characters listed on there, but so far we've only ever seen...

...Drayla, Alvar, Melany, Subeta, Jora, Belletia, Lea, Marken, Mezzus, Ramtov Telekline, Lady Lesona, Lord Gramon, Anko, Anna, Crisis, Fiona, Vivian, Thas Voidfingers, and Zil in the comics. 19 characters.

I'm probably missing a few that were glanced over during the big 'Search for Lea' scenes or in other places, but even when I add on a pretty generous six, it still means that only a fourth of the characters (25/90) have been shown in any official storytelling capacity. I'm aware that a lot more have gotten artwork, but unfortunately, that artwork is really kinda just sitting in a personal gallery, and on top of that...to be blunt, I don't think that art alone can build a world.

It's certainly a factor, don't get me wrong. But in the end, the stories that the artwork inspires are far more important. The history of treasures that lie underneath, the actions of the people that lie on the surface, the goals and aspirations of the individuals and civilizations that live there...it's not that art can't tell these stories, but they only ever show a single scene, frozen in time. And in a world, things change, things grow, things die...a world has to be put into motion, first, before it can be pushed along. If you want ideas, if you want elaboration, if you want a world to grow and move, someone has to start the process. And someone has keep that process going.

And right now, there's only one person that can really do either: you, Karbo. You're literally bearing the weight of an entire world on your shoulders, and very, very few people can do that successfully.

I know that there are 'official' stories that aren't the comics, but my question is, where are they? Sitting in someone's deviantart account, waiting for the sole proprietor of the world to decide whether or not they're worthy to get a stamp of approval...before it's inevitably tossed back into the queue of 'waiting to be used'? No one person has the amount of time to use everything. You only have to look at the disparity between the wiki and the official story to see that.

And on top of that, when that sole proprietor is on record saying things like "its general direction has always remained entirely mine to decide and I'am not answerable to anybody", "I'm on the driver seat and members don't decide on the route ahead", and "contributing a non-character idea to Felarya means giving up artistic control *as well* as legal ownership on it", it actively discourages discussion - because only one person can ever really decide how 'worthy' or 'useful' an idea is. If someone makes an idea, if someone puts their heart and soul on the line to propose something...all they can really ever get out of it is having that idea snatched away and put into the sole proprietor's private queue, or have it ignored entirely.

And like I said, that's not how discussion works. Why would anyone ever propose something if that's all they're ever going to get out of it?

So, Karbo...I have to ask you what your end goal is, here. Is it to build a community where "everyone could propose their ideas and participate in the elaboration of [Felarya]"? Because that's not what's happening now. Believe me, I understand why you have things organized this way, I would probably do the exact same thing if I opened up a personal project to the public. But from an outside perspective...you haven't created a community. Intentional or not, despite opening things up to the public, you're still the only one that can really build the world, you're still the only one that can edit the wiki or publish any official content.

This isn't a place where everyone can propose their ideas and participate.

This is one person asking a host of people to build their world for them; it's a monarch asking their peasants for gold but is only able to give them scraps in return. It's not entirely the monarch's fault, they're only only person and they can only do so much work. But when they insist that only they are allowed to grow food, despite the hundreds of peasants eager and willing to grow food to share with everyone else...they can only give scraps out, because that's all they can make by themselves.

Despite that, things are fine, and people are surviving, if only barely. But if the monarch ever has to leave, if they ever have to attend to something else...

...I don't know what the solution to this is, because I know you want to keep your food high quality, good tasting, and everything else.

But as things are now, if the monarch ever leaves, everyone's going to end up starving.

And it looks like that's already happened.




And, finally...if anyone actually read all of this, I'm sorry for making way too many assumptions and for saying something that's way out of line, especially for someone that literally just joined today. I'm not really aware of how things worked or work here, and if anyone feels like it's deserved, then I fully understand a ban for overstepping my boundaries...

...but I really like this world.

I think it's incredibly unique, and lets people explore things and concepts that can't be explored anywhere else.

I don't want to see it die, or at the very least, I don't want to see the community behind it die, but that's all I can see if things continue the way they're going. If the author wants things to continue, if they want to continue having a community that can have discussions, that can build and develop not their world, but a world...

...something has to change.

Because like I said, nobody can bear the weight of an entire world on their back by themselves.



Well first I'm glad you enjoyed the comics ^^

You're bringing some good points here and sadly, yeah you're not coming in the community at its best of times.. However there is a point where you're really mistaken, it's on that assumption I'm using others to build the world for me.

that's really not it... I never opened Felarya as a mean of having others people do the hard work for me. †I opened it so people who enjoyed that universe could have the opportunity to contribute their idea to it

And yes I know the end result is the same but the intent behind it is very different. Opening Felarya was actually a decision I hesitated about for long back then. I kind of work as a loner usually and this was very new for me. It turned out to work exceedingly well for years †as people were very eager to bring heir stone to the edifice and managed to develop the world in ways I would have never thought about. And in return I would use their ideas †and give them life though drawings and comics. That was the golden age of Felarya, with forum bustling with activity and extreme motivations everywhere; you would visit †them and instantly get the head full of ideas and inspiration.

Then the world grew older, the community got rocked by a couple of dramas and the forums slowed down. I started to become lax in upholding my part of the contract as well, I'm not going to deny it. And then the last couple months were pretty terrible for me on a personal level. Lot of things brutally piled up. It made even drawing not as easy as it used to be, at time painful, †and I completely stopped checking on the forums. The place grinded to a halt basically and many people left , thoroughly demotivated. And I can't blame them. Like I said, it's entirely my fault.

Today I'm trying to revive the flame and I'm serious about it, but like this thread show , it's not going to be easy if at all possible.. And yeah, many things will have to change.

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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:21 am

the problem with the whole "world building for the sake of it, because it's fun!" thing, is that it's only fun for some people.

Me personally have found it an Immensely unpleasant experince,

It was either basic inquiries being completely shat upon for no bloody reason, often by particular individual that the community always sides with for some reason dispite his offputting behavior.

http://felarya.forumotion.com/t3426-teleport-magic?highlight=teleport.

Or it was tedious trollish bashing of the basic premise of the setting under the pretense of "morality discussions"

http://felarya.forumotion.com/t3959-interesting-take-on-predation

Why would anyone want to partake in world building discussions for the sheer sake of it when so many of them become nothing more than arguements between people of differing opinons which of course is going to be happening quite frequently when Karbo pretty much treats all opinons as equal (but some opinons are more equal than others at times...with no explaination)

When an act stops being it's own reward, it's only natural for people to want more, an actual outcome for the effort they had to put themselves through.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:01 am

DarkOne wrote:
the problem with the whole "world building for the sake of it, because it's fun!" thing, is that it's only fun for some people.

Me personally have found it an Immensely unpleasant experince,

It was either basic inquiries being completely shat upon for no bloody reason, often by particular individual that the community always sides with for some reason dispite his offputting behavior.

http://felarya.forumotion.com/t3426-teleport-magic?highlight=teleport.

Or it was tedious trollish bashing of the basic premise of the setting under the pretense of "morality discussions"

http://felarya.forumotion.com/t3959-interesting-take-on-predation

Why would anyone want to partake in world building discussions for the sheer sake of it when so many of them become nothing more than arguements between people of differing opinons which of course is going to be happening quite frequently when Karbo pretty much treats all opinons as equal (but some opinons are more equal than others at times...with no explaination)

When an act stops being it's own reward, it's only natural for people to want more, an actual outcome for the effort they had to put themselves through.
I have only one word to say to this: Guilty. I'm not gonna defend myself or try to justify myself on this one. I'm straight up guilty and you have every rights to be pissed off at me, Dark.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:53 am

Karbo wrote:
Well first I'm glad you enjoyed the comics ^^

You're bringing some good points here and sadly, yeah you're not coming in the community at its best of times.. However there is a point where you're really mistaken, it's on that assumption I'm using others to build the world for me.

that's really not it... I never opened Felarya as a mean of having others people do the hard work for me. †I opened it so people who enjoyed that universe could have the opportunity to contribute their idea to it

And yes I know the end result is the same but the intent behind it is very different. Opening Felarya was actually a decision I hesitated about for long back then. I kind of work as a loner usually and this was very new for me. It turned out to work exceedingly well for years †as people were very eager to bring heir stone to the edifice and managed to develop the world in ways I would have never thought about. And in return I would use their ideas †and give them life though drawings and comics. That was the golden age of Felarya, with forum bustling with activity and extreme motivations everywhere; you would visit †them and instantly get the head full of ideas and inspiration.

Then the world grew older, the community got rocked by a couple of dramas and the forums slowed down. I started to become lax in upholding my part of the contract as well, I'm not going to deny it. And then the last couple months were pretty terrible for me on a personal level. Lot of things brutally piled up. It made even drawing not as easy as it used to be, at time painful, †and I completely stopped checking on the forums. The place grinded to a halt basically and many people left , thoroughly demotivated. And I can't blame them. Like I said, it's entirely my fault.

Today I'm trying to revive the flame and I'm serious about it, but like this thread show , it's not going to be easy if at all possible.. And yeah, many things will have to change.

Thanks for replying without biting my head off - I was really worried that my post would be seen as too harsh, especially for someone who just joined. It was written and rewritten over the course of like 2-3 hours while I was half-sleep drunk...that's just an excuse, but because of that, the post probably didn't convey my points as nearly as well as I wanted.

Which is why I was so nervous about checking out your reply ^^;

Despite how it might've sounded, I never intended at all to point fingers at anyone, and I really apologize if that was how it came off. I have no idea how things were ran in the past or how well the system was working...I just know that overall, from my viewpoint in the present, it looked/looks to me like you were moving too fast for your own good. There's a few characters on the wiki that make me think "Huh, they seem kind of random", and on top of that some pretty critical foundational things were left unestablished. So...again, to be brutally honest, that made me think that you were accepting things at random or on the basis of 'that sounds cool', rather than actually trying to worldbuild.

As for whatever happened in your personal life, I'm not going to assume anything about it, or say 'it gets better' or any useless, fluffy crap like that. I do want to say, though, that I think it shows a lot of willpower that you're willing to come back and even admit you made mistakes. That's something that I really respect - a lot of people don't (or can't) do the same.

If you're willing to listen to them, I have my own opinions on what can be done to move things forward...but ultimately, this whole thing is up to you. So before anything else, I think you really need to think about what your goal and intentions are for Felarya.

DarkOne wrote:
http://felarya.forumotion.com/t3959-interesting-take-on-predation

I'm not going to comment on the general attitude of the community, because I really can't. I never experienced it.

That topic, though, is exactly what I'm talking about; I'm actually really happy to see that it exists. I never had any concrete proof, but as I looked through the past messages I got the feeling that there was/is a big split in the community - those who were here to just get their rocks off from the vore and the femdom with little else, and those who were looking to actually worldbuild, with the vore being a noticeable and significant (but not completely overwhelming) part of the setting. Of course there's a blend between the two, but I think it's the difference between like...let's say, Corruption of Champions and Monster Musume.

Again, being a bit blunt here, but CoC is straight-up porn - things are explained only to give the player the motivation and ability to move on to the next fetish scene. While there's a base foundation laid down for why things are they way they are (humanity dug too deep, demons invaded, turned world into...whatever it is now), nobody really questions things too much, characters don't get much depth or growth or explanation, and I don't think anyone would believe me if I said 'oh but I'm playing it for the story!!!' Overall, there's a very clear intent behind the game.

On the other hand, MonMusu certainly has, y'know, an everyman protagonist who has a bunch of extremely attractive, exotic women dumped on him, and who are all somehow interested in him. It's pretty obviously intended to be titillating... but it's not straight up p-in-v porn, either. There's still a story that's being told, characters are actually characters and have backstories and grow and develop, and excluding the initial premise, a relatively solid world has been built underneath it all. People are still probably going to roll their eyes when you say 'I watch it for the plot', but it's a lot more justifiable than CoC.

Now, I'm not sure where Felarya stands on that spectrum, given the content that's come out for it.

Is it a world that's only made for people to...enjoy enjoy, or is it a world that can stand on it's own and be a fair example of storytelling despite it's questionable content? I think it's pretty obvious which camp I'm in (hint: I'm not actually super into vore), but I'm not going to be offended if Karbo decides they want it other way. I do, however, think that it's a decision that needs to be made: the two attract very different audiences who can be interested in very different things, and I think that that's where a lot of the friction in the past community could've come from.

...I also could be completely misinterpreting things, but eh. There's my two cents.

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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:23 pm

Well in my case I am often quite busy, but I feel like I tend to use that as an excuse. Of course its also hard for me to just sit down, read and write when I could be getting visually stimulated on a video game.

I'm trying to come back myself. I need to put the effort in again to sift through facts and posts and respond and create many ideas. Before I stopped posting on my ideas thread, I was shuffling through about 4 or 5 ideas and a rewrite of an old one. Now I can no longer remember what they are.

I'm sure everyone has different reasons for drifting away though. In my case I feel mine was more just laziness than anything real. I still have a character I want to work on again, because there's a certain red headed fairy of mine that needs some love Razz

Portalboat does bring up an interesting point though, that reminds me about every world out there that Felarya doesn't have, which is the beginning of the world itself. Its usually been brought up in passing, generally, and I never remember anybody making a real thread about it in a LONG time. I guess because we all thought Karbo has his reasons and ideas for that aspect, but it would be cool to brainstorm about it, an idea that could work.

Of course the other thing we were working on before the forum totally ground to a halt was Kelerm. Karbo, I'm still waiting on your picture :p
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:12 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Portalboat does bring up an interesting point though, that reminds me about every world out there that Felarya doesn't have, which is the beginning of the world itself. Its usually been brought up in passing, generally, and I never remember anybody making a real thread about it in a LONG time. I guess because we all thought Karbo has his reasons and ideas for that aspect, but it would be cool to brainstorm about it, an idea that could work.

Uh, I assume this is supposed to be some version of 'that reminds me of something that every world except for Felarya has: the reason the world exists'?

If that's the case, there's two theories sitting on the Lydus page of the wiki - one ties into the currently-existing Corrector War, and the other one is 'some kind of brain that runs on dimensional currents instead of neurons'.

Personally I like the former, because it gives the author(s) a nice, unrelatable, inhuman antagonist (Correctors) that can fade into the background or be brought center-stage as needed. It also gives a very solid reason for some kind of interesting 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' plot, if things end up going that way officially or otherwise.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:55 pm

Portalboat wrote:

Uh, I assume this is supposed to be some version of 'that reminds me of something that every world except for Felarya has: the reason the world exists'?

If that's the case, there's two theories sitting on the Lydus page of the wiki - one ties into the currently-existing Corrector War, and the other one is 'some kind of brain that runs on dimensional currents instead of neurons'.

Personally I like the former, because it gives the author(s) a nice, unrelatable, inhuman antagonist (Correctors) that can fade into the background or be brought center-stage as needed. It also gives a very solid reason for some kind of interesting 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' plot, if things end up going that way officially or otherwise.

Yes.

I'm not referring to the corrector war, either. That's just an event. Its always been my assumption Felarya is far older. A dimensional world such as it is, I would think is likely an insane, extreme, cataclysmic reaction to something. We know the realms of Angles and Demons are connected to Felarya, and I'd rather assume they had some hand in its creation millions of years ago for some reason.

There was a -really- good idea a few years back I think about Felarya being created actually to protect something, which is why its so unstable, and also why the correctors may have had an interest in it in the first place, but for some reason, I cannot remember who first thought of the idea. Since I cant remember, my money's going to be on either Shady, or Stabs. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Getting back into things   Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:14 am

Portalboat wrote:
Now, I'm not sure where Felarya stands on that spectrum, given the content that's come out for it.

...Okay, so to add onto this, I just found the old old comics (Felarya Comic 1, 2, etc, that I can't link to just yet) that were made back in 2008. So, I feel like I need to apologize for assuming some things. All I saw of the story comics was the manga that had to be purchased, so it felt a bit, eeeeeh...let's say 'predatory' (pun intended, though I hope it's not in too poor taste) to be asking for people's characters and ideas, then compiling them into stories that those people had to buy or just not using them at all.

While it definitely ties into the point I was at least trying to imply about organization, it also really changes the dynamic I thought was happening here ^^;
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