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Shadeofheave
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:20 pm

Well, in my not-so-credible opinion, I believe there should be fire/ice succubi with the innate ability to use seduction spells and the angels to simply use divine magic. I just can't quite imagine succubi using anything BUT fire and ice magic, there's not much else to be found in Hell after all. So yeah, I pretty much agree with Anime-Junkie's opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:01 pm

Pretty much, except their magic would have an additional affinity according to individual preference, natural skill, survival trait, or taking after their leader.
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buddha66667
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:33 am

Well I think I'll through my 2 cents in to this topic. When the environment changes creatures get M.A.D. This is to say they do one of three things.
M ove they simply move and find a place that they are better suited to survive in.
A dapt they adapt to the situation by gaining new traits.
D ie well this is self explanatory.

In the case of the Fire and Ice succubie in order to survive they had to adapt to their environment or risk dying. Personally I can't see any reason for elemental Angels to exist simply because unless their environment changes and are forced to adapt then they won't. Now this isn't to say that there aren’t angles that prefer to use lighting magic or fire magic but they wouldn't have evolved a subspecies to do so. Think of it like this just because a human learned how to cast fire magic doesn't make him a Fire human nor does a angel with the ability to cast lightning, nature or any other magic make it a lightning angel or nature angle.

This is just my personal opinion feel free to disagree but if you do please support your side well.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:24 am

I agree with you buddha. You're pretty much saying what I'm saying. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:18 am

Well, it seems clear that fire and ice succubi are adapted to their homeland. (Where do Silver Succubi live I wonder... though a few religious mention punishment in hell to come in the form of molten metal. Perhaps there is a large "foundry" like section of hell, with terrifying machines and mechanical demons.)

This is fitting for in many cultures hell is portrayed as either a fiery pit of doom or as a frozen wasteland or often both. Many cultures portray hell has having both of these areas. Also perhaps applicable would be a "shadow succubus" - for cultures who portray hell as a dark and shadowy void or series of underground chambers.

So, what do we think of heaven? Some religions perceived Heaven as being "above" - thus the idea of clouds with angels, or perhaps even beyond that. It would make sense to have "wind angels" in this setting or maybe "sun angels". Greek and Islamic tradition refer to more of a lush paradise or an Eden - "nature angels" would seem to be naturally to evolve here. And then the Vikings believed in Valhalla - warrior angels or lightening angels?

These are only ideas but if the demons of hell adapt to their environment why not the angels of heaven?
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:19 am

Jætte_Troll wrote:
Well, it seems clear that fire and ice succubi are adapted to their homeland. (Where do Silver Succubi live I wonder... though a few religious mention punishment in hell to come in the form of molten metal. Perhaps there is a large "foundry" like section of hell, with terrifying machines and mechanical demons.)
It was going to be a surprise damnit.

Jætte_Troll wrote:
This is fitting for in many cultures hell is portrayed as either a fiery pit of doom or as a frozen wasteland or often both. Many cultures portray hell has having both of these areas. Also perhaps applicable would be a "shadow succubus" - for cultures who portray hell as a dark and shadowy void or series of underground chambers.

So, what do we think of heaven? Some religions perceived Heaven as being "above" - thus the idea of clouds with angels, or perhaps even beyond that. It would make sense to have "wind angels" in this setting or maybe "sun angels". Greek and Islamic tradition refer to more of a lush paradise or an Eden - "nature angels" would seem to be naturally to evolve here.
Don't forget Christianity and Judaism they have an Eden too.
That aside, why would specific angels need to have nature powers there? It's a perfect world, they don't need special powers to survive.
Most angels can fly, so just a few having wind magic doesn't make too much sense.
What I'm saying is that most angels would possess those magics.

Jætte_Troll wrote:
And then the Vikings believed in Valhalla - warrior angels or lightening angels?

These are only ideas but if the demons of hell adapt to their environment why not the angels of heaven?
Yeah I can see where you're coming from there, however in many cultures angels are depicted with thunder and lightning too. I think that most angels would be able to do a bit of lightning anyway.
I agree with warrior angels though.
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buddha66667
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:09 am

Jætte_Troll wrote:
So, what do we think of heaven? Some religions perceived Heaven as being "above" - thus the idea of clouds with angels, or perhaps even beyond that. It would make sense to have "wind angels" in this setting or maybe "sun angels". Greek and Islamic tradition refer to more of a lush paradise or an Eden - "nature angels" would seem to be naturally to evolve here. And then the Vikings believed in Valhalla - warrior angels or lightening angels?

Ok I understand where you’re coming from here with the whole differing religions differing heavens idea, but let’s keep in mind that there are thousands of religions each that believe different things. Taking Greek mythology as an example.
Zeus
Posidon
Dionysius
Athena
Aphrodite
Artemis
Apollo
Hermes
Each of these gods and goddesses rule over different things and having a different species of angel for each of them would create problems just due to sheer number. This is a fantasy world and therefore in this world there is the ability to make deities real so maybe the idea of heaven needs to be written out and added to the wiki along with a list of existing deities.
Jætte_Troll wrote:
These are only ideas but if the demons of hell adapt to their environment why not the angels of heaven?
Hell is a place of extremes while Heaven is percieved as a place of absolute comfort. A tiny could survive there safely so there is no need to addapt.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:26 am

Speaking of Shadow Succubi, I already made a race called Phantasm Demons, which include the succubi.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:54 am

buddha66667 wrote:
Hell is a place of extremes while Heaven is percieved as a place of absolute comfort. A tiny could survive there safely so there is no need to addapt.
This. Absolutely this.
That's what I've been trying to say.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:23 am

This is something I need to get out, there's a lot of fallacy that Heaven is a place full of wusses thanks to being a place of comfort. I actually don't see it like that, I'm sure that angels are more than willing enough to train all their lives to make sure this peace is never disrupted.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:01 am

Sean Okotami wrote:
This is something I need to get out, there's a lot of fallacy that Heaven is a place full of wusses thanks to being a place of comfort. I actually don't see it like that, I'm sure that angels are more than willing enough to train all their lives to make sure this peace is never disrupted.
Point taken but personally feel that a well done description of heaven in Felarya needs to be written up to see if it warrants any subspecies forming and like I said before a human who learns to use fire magic doesn't make him a fire human. Training all their lives isn't going to make them a different species just stronger. Maybe instead of different subspecies being formed we should be talking about different casts being formed where angles train extensively in different weapons magic’s and such and have it more as a social order then a subspecies.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:57 am

I actually meant that a few people put Hell as superior to Heaven since you have to live strong or you'll die, and I personally don't see it like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:59 am

Sean Okotami wrote:
This is something I need to get out, there's a lot of fallacy that Heaven is a place full of wusses thanks to being a place of comfort. I actually don't see it like that, I'm sure that angels are more than willing enough to train all their lives to make sure this peace is never disrupted.
Obviously. We're not saying it is. I agree with what you say.
buddha66667 wrote:
Point taken but personally feel that a well done description of heaven in Felarya needs to be written up to see if it warrants any subspecies forming and like I said before a human who learns to use fire magic doesn't make him a fire human. Training all their lives isn't going to make them a different species just stronger. Maybe instead of different subspecies being formed we should be talking about different casts being formed where angles train extensively in different weapons magic’s and such and have it more as a social order then a subspecies.

Social order? Nah. How would be organise it? Angels who train in fire magic are better than wind? Ice better than fire?
No, I think that angels would train in the obvious (holy magic), lightning, since they're often depicted with such as well as a wide range of other magics.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:11 am

Anime-Junkie wrote:
Social order? Nah. How would be organise it? Angels who train in fire magic are better than wind? Ice better than fire?
No, I think that angels would train in the obvious (holy magic), lightning, since they're often depicted with such as well as a wide range of other magics.

Perhaps social order was not the correct phrase I ment more along the lines of them grouping themselves to together based on areas of focus.

also
Sean Okotami wrote:
I actually meant that a few people put Hell as superior to Heaven since you have to live strong or you'll die, and I personally don't see it like that.]
I agree with this.


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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:36 am

well the thing about divine magic is that only the divine can use it, and angels would need to be pretty powerful (if we're talking about it in terms of power) to keep heaven safe from demons attacking hell, or another being who tries to cross holy grounds.

holy magic would just be a base energy probably, in itself, it would act like like a normal spell that could channel anything. (like in pokemon, clefairy uses metronome, but instead can control what it uses). The pp would be the "magical energy" and the metronome would be the divine spell that would trigger something else, however any normal spell cast with divine magic would have specially divine qualities. That's how I see it.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:13 pm

I agree with bael that divine/holy magic should only be able to be used by divine creatures. (Any mortal spellcaster that looks like they're using holy magic is calling on an Angel to 'boost' their spell with holy magic).

As for the part where it can control other things, well I'm ok with that. Life is part of the divine, plants have life so there's how angels apparently use nature magic.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:50 pm

it sounds kind of powerful, but it would be the only real kind of magic an angel would know probably, not to mention that we're talking about divine beings anyway. they're supposed to be more powerful than normal, both them AND demons.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:32 am

Hmmm. Well, my own two cents in, I've always pictured "divine" magic as being a magic of "order" as opposed to entropic "unholy" magic. What does this mean? I see Divine magic as something that focuses on restoring, creating or maintaining. Thus why it is effective at healing and even nature spells. It would allow creation of powerful magic shields against destructive spells. It would allow for bolts of magic that would be very effective against dimensionally traveling beings like demons, pushing them back from whence they came. Removing curses and disease... Blah blah blah... my I'm tired.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:13 am

that just makes it sound like regular magic. the reason why divine magic is so powerful is because not only does it have that extra "kick" to it, but BECAUSE it's divine, which is pretty self explanatory. divine, being "holy" or "glorious" would have a more religious sense to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:49 am

Well, I'm explain the scope, not the power. Yes, as divine magic it would be more "glorious." This would allow it to "override" other forms of magic or "undo" them - divine magic is massively powerful in its ability to restore and balance. A divine healing spell could basically undo a wound, restore the person to how they were. A divine banishing spell could remove a malign entity from a dimension entirely. A divine shielding spell could negate all but the most powerful of the other forms of magic. Even if a large swath of land was blasted, divine magic could restore it.
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:07 am

Archmage_Bael wrote:
that just makes it sound like regular magic. the reason why divine magic is so powerful is because not only does it have that extra "kick" to it, but BECAUSE it's divine, which is pretty self explanatory. divine, being "holy" or "glorious" would have a more religious sense to it.
Archmage_Bael wrote:
divine magic is so powerful is because BECAUSE... ... it's divine
Bael, you realise you just used circular logic, right?
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PostSubject: Re: Angel Types   Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:18 pm

whoops. used 'because' twice Razz

I know I used circular logic, I wasn't quite sure how to explain it, and I think everyone knows (more or less) what "divine" means.

Since magically, in a tier standpoint, divine rates highest up there with demonic magic. Like I said, I just wasn't too sure how to put it sweatdrop
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