Manipulation of Ki or life force

The concept of manipulation of ki or life-force, shakkra etc... consist to to alter your biological activities of your own body in order to increase temporary your natural abilities. It can be used in magic but it's mostly use by many creature as an alternate to magic.

How it works
As it was said previously, the manipulation of life consist to alter your biological activities of your own body, so you redirect or reduce the total of energy used by the different activities of your body to focuse it on other parts. By example a predator is chasing you, you can focuse all your energy to run faster and a bit longer.

the different levels
Depending on the race, the characters, each creatures have its own level of life-force, so a predator don't have the same level of life-force than a human, and it's the same for a human and a neko. It's mostly due to their natural needs.

The use
It's frequently use to change your natural stats by increasing or decreasing them, by example you can turn all your physical resistance to increase your magical resistance. But it's not the only use, it can be channeled to an energy form which be used as a powerful blast or shape for a specific use, as healing, increase or decrease the abilities or another person, channeling with another living being to increase your power.

limits
-The changes and the damage are always physical, in clear the physical resistance plays an important role in the efficiency. You will be always limited by the the physicals laws, contrary to magic.

-It's not without consequence on the body, you can suffer from complications due to some dangerous manipulations of the body, like difficulty to recover, you are more exhauster or you life expectnacy is shorten. By example you can use it to be immune to magic even to healing magic including the healing properties of the Felarya soil.

-It's not a good system to heal you by yourself, you can use it to increase your immune system and recover faster from minor injuries. But if you are seriously hurt, or affected by poison or disease you need the help of someone else.

-Contrary to popular beliefs training doesn't increase your life-force but your mastery, you can do some physical change to increase the efficiency of the this change. You have the opinion you are stronger but in reality it's because your body support better the alteration and allowing you to use it better or more longer. It's possible to increase your life-force by taking it from other living being by simply drinking and eating or by draining it, but the problem if you take too much you may destroy your own body by exceeding your natural limits.

What do you think

Well... I think it depends on what it is you are trying to define? 'Ki', or 'life force'? Because "Life Force" can be manipulated a number of ways, psychic, spiritually, magically... if an Element of Life exists within the framework of your world, then you could manipulate "life force" purely with Elemental Magic, whereas martial artists are doing something different.

So, what is it exactly you are trying to establish? I don't really see the specific context behind the post.

Edit: Also, check your messages.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

-Contrary to popular beliefs training doesn't increase your life-force but your mastery, you can do some physical change to increase the efficiency of the this change. You have the opinion you are stronger but in reality it's because your body support better the alteration and allowing you to use it better or more longer. It's possible to increase your life-force by taking it from other living being by simply drinking and eating or by draining it, but the problem if you take too much you may destroy your own body by exceeding your natural limits.

I can believe that, since Piccolo usually got stronger through meditation or fusion.

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

So, what is it exactly you are trying to establish? I don't really see the specific context behind the post.

I think it may have something to do with a Species of Naga I created, they use Ki.

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

Well... I think it depends on what it is you are trying to define? 'Ki', or 'life force'? Because "Life Force" can be manipulated a number of ways, psychic, spiritually, magically... if an Element of Life exists within the framework of your world, then you could manipulate "life force" purely with Elemental Magic, whereas martial artists are doing something different.

It's that I try to define more the concept or life force but in many it's called in different name like 'Ki', shakra etc... it's the system use in many mangas instead of magic or psychics abilities, because Felarya is a crossworld from many dimension so this system

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

So, what is it exactly you are trying to establish? I don't really see the specific context behind the post.

This ability is very common and not necessary depend on magic, or psychic abilities. I try to make it in a different category.

In many RPG, other class like warrior, assassin, rogue use another system than magic, so is this system I try to explain.

It's another system like technology,magic, psychic abilities or natural abilities. It's use commonly in many martial arts.

vegeta002 wrote:

I can believe that, since Piccolo usually got stronger through meditation or fusion.

I should thank you because with your idea of Genki naga you make notice this system can exist alone, I try to explain ii in order to help you to understand it can exist and use in different way in many universe.

And don't forget fighting games. They use that trope almost all the time. Street Fighter much?

Sean Okotami wrote:

And don't forget fighting games. They use that trope almost all the time. Street Fighter much?

yeah you're reight

It's most likely amongst the most often used Tropes in Media.

How would Ki / Life-Force attacking moves work against a Soulless being [Rarities, yes, but they do occur. Even if often from a deal with a Demon gone sour]? Would they have no effect, seeing as there's no real force to turn against the body?

Most Ki I've seen effects anything with a physical form, though I could be wrong.

Ki affect the body, doesn't it?

Malahite wrote:

How would Ki / Life-Force attacking moves work against a Soulless being [Rarities, yes, but they do occur. Even if often from a deal with a Demon gone sour]? Would they have no effect, seeing as there's no real force to turn against the body?

In general you alter your biological or natural abilities, so in theory you can use it to increase your brain activities allowing you temporary some psychic abilities. So you may attack a ghost etc...

But it's not without consequence, you can have after a big headache or worst make your brain explode and don't expect you will compete with a natural psychic guy.

If you have the natural abilities to see or touch ghost, or you have been trained to use your ki to do that it won't be a problem.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

It's that I try to define more the concept or life force but in many it's called in different name like 'Ki', shakra etc... it's the system use in many mangas instead of magic or psychics abilities, because Felarya is a crossworld from many dimension so this system

Ki, Chi, or Qi is not the same thing as "Life Force". Ki/Chi/Qi is a "vital force", but it is not Life itself. It is something that is sustains life; the original concept for it was "life-breath". Ancient chinese culture believed in many kinds of Qi- the blowing wind was believed to be the Qi of the Earth (the Earth was breathing, which was why the Wind was blowing), Yin and Yang were types of Qi, etc.

Originally, Qi was never "life force", the Chinese always drew a distinction between Qi and Life.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

This ability is very common and not necessary depend on magic, or psychic abilities. I try to make it in a different category.

In many RPG, other class like warrior, assassin, rogue use another system than magic, so is this system I try to explain.

It's another system like technology,magic, psychic abilities or natural abilities. It's use commonly in many martial arts.

Okay, I think I understand better now. However, I think you are looking at it from an odd angle.

Life as an energy can be a source of power. How you manipulate that power can vary; using the term "Ki manipulation" is less than ideal if you take "Ki" to mean "the raw energy of Life itself"; because any method of manipulating that energy, whether technological, martial arts, magical, psionic, or whatever, is technically "Ki manipulation".

Use of the term "Ki manipulation" to describe a power in this case is pointless, because "Ki manipulation" can mean so many different things. Just like setting someone on fire with a flamethrower or with psychic powers can both be considered "Fire manipulation". It is not possible to define one unified definition for manipulating Life Force because there are so many different mechanisms to do so.

You may want to rethink your approach, and narrow your focus on exactly what it is you want to accomplish?

Instead of trying to define Life Force and how everyone manipulates it, stick to defining just one particular way that some people manipulate it.

EDIT: Also wanted to note for the record, that the first manipulators of Qi were the Chinese equivalent of sorcerors; the martial arts connection didn't occur until much, much later. Qi was orginially a form of Chinese 'magic', and most magical systems originating in Asia were heavily influenced by the concept.

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

Ki, Chi, or Qi is not the same thing as "Life Force". Ki/Chi/Qi is a "vital force", but it is not Life itself. It is something that is sustains life; the original concept for it was "life-breath". Ancient chinese culture believed in many kinds of Qi- the blowing wind was believed to be the Qi of the Earth (the Earth was breathing, which was why the Wind was blowing), Yin and Yang were types of Qi, etc.

Originally, Qi was never "life force", the Chinese always drew a distinction between Qi and Life.

Your right maybe I should call it vital force.

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

Okay, I think I understand better now. However, I think you are looking at it from an odd angle.

Life as an energy can be a source of power. How you manipulate that power can vary; using the term "Ki manipulation" is less than ideal if you take "Ki" to mean "the raw energy of Life itself"; because any method of manipulating that energy, whether technological, martial arts, magical, psionic, or whatever, is technically "Ki manipulation".

Use of the term "Ki manipulation" to describe a power in this case is pointless, because "Ki manipulation" can mean so many different things. Just like setting someone on fire with a flamethrower or with psychic powers can both be considered "Fire manipulation". It is not possible to define one unified definition for manipulating Life Force because there are so many different mechanisms to do so.

You may want to rethink your approach, and narrow your focus on exactly what it is you want to accomplish?

Instead of trying to define Life Force and how everyone manipulates it, stick to defining just one particular way that some people manipulate it.

EDIT: Also wanted to note for the record, that the first manipulators of Qi were the Chinese equivalent of sorcerors; the martial arts connection didn't occur until much, much later. Qi was orginially a form of Chinese 'magic', and most magical systems originating in Asia were heavily influenced by the concept.

I want to define the category of people who possess power without to be a mage, or a psychics or to have natural abilities.

What I want to explain the concept of manipulation of Ki or vital force, in a neutral way as you did for "magic" or "Heaven and Hell"

It can be considered as another category, because there is people who manipulate their vital force who are not necessary mage or psychics. The mages were the first who studied and theorized about it but it existed before and maybe some people used it without knowing it.

I will quote the many characters in fighting games, we see throw fireball with their hand without casting a spell and just say the name of their skill.

I want to explain the fact many people in felarya can do an "hadoken" or "special move" without to be necessary to be categorized as a mage, a psychics or a mutant.

I may say they are martial artist, but the problem some martial arts may use magic.

What I want to explain the manipulatio many people do to temporary increase their physical abilities to escape a predator or to hide themselves from a predator, and I want to be clear about the fact this abilities don't make you able to one shot a giant predator because contrary to people may see in many anime shows, the vital doesn't constantly increase or an infinite power you can tap all the time, in clear you won't transform into a powerfull entity just because you concentrate your vital force or you train everyday.
If you want to increase it you had to draw the vital from another entities or use some special chemcal substance.

It's true it's frequently use by mage, pyschics but they are not the only users

Do you see what I mean

Edit: if we based on your categorization about magic, the manipulation of ki or vital force is not really necessary to ruled-based system or Theurgy/Taumaturgy etc...
And I think this abilities is more common to many creatures in Felarya because it's more primitive and less complex or developped than magic or psychic abilities. Of course if we go deeper we enter into magic, or many other things. After all many creatures tend to train their natural abilities to increase their chance of survive and sometimes they did manipulation of ki counsciously or uncousciously

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Your right maybe I should call it vital force.

Alright, that is a step in the right direction. So, "manipulating Qi" is "the skill of manipulating Vital Forces", and not Life, per say.

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

Instead of trying to define Life Force and how everyone manipulates it, stick to defining just one particular way that some people manipulate it.

I re-quoted and bolded the above, because I want to emphasize that point. More on it later.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

I want to define the category of people who possess power without to be a mage, or a psychics or to have natural abilities.

Okay, fair enough; this is certainly possible and makes sense.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

What I want to explain the concept of manipulation of Ki or vital force, in a neutral way as you did for "magic" or "Heaven and Hell"

This is where you will run into problems, because the way you're designing it is somewhat different from the approach I took with those things. For instance, my article on magic works because although it is very broad, it only covers the possible mechanisms for magical powers. Nothing I wrote on magic will contradict or be contradicted by any magical power a person displays; it is flexible enough for that power to be explained a number of possible ways within the framework. This following statement...

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

It can be considered as another category, because there is people who manipulate their vital force who are not necessary mage or psychics. The mages were the first who studied and theorized about it but it existed before and maybe some people used it without knowing it.

... is incorrect, because 'manipulating Life' can only be considered another category from magic or psychic powers if neither magic nor psychic powers can be used to accomplish or prevent the same thing. A person who manipulates the raw energies of Life with a 'skill' is tapping into the same source as a mage who manipulates the raw energies of Life with Elemental Magic.

A plant and a solar calculator both use energy from the sun (the source); the mechanisms they use to do this are the process of photosynthesis, and photovoltaic cells.

Do you see the point I am trying to make? You are trying to establish a single framework that covers both the source/raw energy AND the mechanism, when you should be focusing on defining the mechanism alone.

You've established that "vital forces" are what you are manipulating, through non-magical and non-psychic means; you don't need to try and define the energy any more at this point, because that will only cause conflict with magical and psychic powers that draw on the same source. Stick to how the person manipulates those forces, and what they can do with them, rather than trying to state definitively what those forces are... at least for now.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

I will quote the many characters in fighting games, we see throw fireball with their hand without casting a spell and just say the name of their skill.

Those same things can be done through magic or psychic powers; in fact, some of the characters that appear in fighting games ARE mages or psychics.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

I want to explain the fact many people in felarya can do an "hadoken" or "special move" without to be necessary to be categorized as a mage, a psychics or a mutant.

I may say they are martial artist, but the problem some martial arts may use magic.

Okay, that is much more helpful. In that case, my suggestion is to consider the following:

1) Establish this mechanism for manipulating the vital forces as a skill, or possibly a biological trait, rather than innate magical or psychic ability.
2) Further establish the non-magical/psychic nature of the mechanism by saying that it works in zones where magical or psychic energy can not exist.
3) Establish the situations under which this mechanism can not work; Anti-Qi techniques that block the flow of vital energy through one's body, etc.
4) Establish the sorts of things that can be performed by this mechanism; it is okay if they resemble magical or psychic powers, because #1-3 made the distinction between this mechanism and magic/psionics.
5) Establish further connections between this mechanism and creatures and/or cultures; you said that it was a problem that some martial arts may use magic. Well, some martial arts may use psychic powers, and some martial arts may use this mechanism you just developed. Create a few, consider how technology plays a part in or is affected by the use of this mechanism, etc.
6) Create variations of this mechanism; not all people do magic the same way, and not everyone has the same type of psychic powers. Think about the differences that exist, and how they matter.

If you do the above, you'll wind up with a framework similar to the one I developed for magic. It isn't quite the exact way I did it, but very close.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

What I want to explain the manipulatio many people do to temporary increase their physical abilities to escape a predator or to hide themselves from a predator, and I want to be clear about the fact this abilities don't make you able to one shot a giant predator because contrary to people may see in many anime shows, the vital doesn't constantly increase or an infinite power you can tap all the time, in clear you won't transform into a powerfull entity just because you concentrate your vital force or you train everyday.
If you want to increase it you had to draw the vital from another entities or use some special chemcal substance.

Right. The way to do this is not by defining the energy itself, but by defining the mechanism you use to tap into that energy, and the powers that it can give you.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

It's true it's frequently use by mage, pyschics but they are not the only users

Do you see what I mean

Yes, I do, and I hope that my advice helps.

Edit: if we based on your categorization about magic, the manipulation of ki or vital force is not really necessary to ruled-based system or Theurgy/Taumaturgy etc...

Based on my categorization of magic, if manipulating ki was a type of magic, it would probably be a combination of Primordial (Wild) Magic and Ley (Force) Magic. Everything that a ki user could possibly do could be acheived under those two categories; however, it would only be a matter of magic if something like a counter-spell was capable of disrupting a ki effect. If not, then it is obviously not magic, even if it is tapping into the exact same force a mage using Primordial/Force magic is tapping.

This is why you can not define the actual "Life Force" in such a way that it excludes magic entirely; by doing so, you create a logical contradiction. If your ability accesses "Life Force", and "Life Force" has no relation to magic at all, then magic can not access it. If any mage proves that they can access "Life Force" solely through magical means at any point in time, your theory is instantly invalidated.

This is why it is better to consider the concept of "Life" as a Universal Force, which can be accessed through various means.

Multiple types of magic are included among those means.

Psychic powers are included among those means.

The "skills of manipulating Vital Forces", ie, different types of Ki Manipulation are also included among those means.

The above is what you want to define, and only the above. Stick to defining what the "Vital Forces" that one can manipulate are (Life itself is not one of them, Life is what you access through the "Vital Forces") and how one manipulates them (through skill, force of will, biology, etc.)

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

And I think this abilities is more common to many creatures in Felarya because it's more primitive and less complex or developped than magic or psychic abilities. Of course if we go deeper we enter into magic, or many other things. After all many creatures tend to train their natural abilities to increase their chance of survive and sometimes they did manipulation of ki counsciously or uncousciously

That isn't really safe to speculate on; while it is certainly possible, it is not very likely. We know that many- possibly even the majority of- creatures on Felarya are born with some kind of magical traits, innate abilities, or raw potential for magic. We do not know that the same applies to creatures and ki, despite one or two possible isolated cases.

If a creature has the ability to fly without wings or any visible physical effort (DBZ-style flight), and you use something that nullifies magic on him:

A) If he does fall, the most probable explanation is that he is using a magical power to fly.
B) If he does not fall, the most probable explanation is that he is not using a magical power to fly. However, this does not mean he is using ki. He could be, but he could also be: using telekinesis or other psychic powers, using technology, using a magical item that your spell can not counteract, simply more magically powerful than you are, or any other number of possible explanations.

You need to be careful when you are designing something that is intended to be a general and flexible framework; you can always narrow something general down into something specific, but it is far more difficult to go in the reverse direction, especially when contradictions begin to arise.

That's why I post this thread on "idea discussion" and not in "New idea". I wanted to know the opinion of the different members of the community and what they think about the topic.
Thanks for the advices

I try a new explanation:

The concept of manipulation Ki/Qi/shi or vital force:
The manipulation consist to manipulate the vital force or the ki, the energy which sustains life, it's not the life itself, but it can be considered as one of the way as magi,psychic powers, or technology to manipulate the life force.

Within the body there are two basic types of vital force. The innate that every living creature are born with. It is essentially limited and the quality and amount of represents the basic constitution. The acquired one, is derived from the foods eaten and the air breathe. The quality of acquired Qi depends on the lifestyle habits such as food quality, balance of emotions, physical exercise etc...

The differences are the innate is inherited from our parents, gathered and formed at conception,determines basic constitution, strength and vitality. It's essential to growth and development
it can be conserved but not replenished. Contrary to the acquired which can be be stored and replenished.

It serves several vital functions within the body. When imbalances arise, they are seen as disruptions in the functions of the vital force. For example a prolapse is seen as a disruption of the vital force to provide the raising and stabilizing function on a particular organ.

In general the ki-users manipulated mostly the acquired type, they may use innate type but it's not without of consequence and even Felarya'soil can not help you. It's rumored people who grows older,suffers from disease or dies from illness are suffer from disruptions of their vital force. The worst they can be immune to healing magic.

The acquired vital force is mostly use to increase the physical abilities. It happens the energy can be used to mimic some magic or psychic abilities but they are strongly limited by the physical condition. For example a human ki-user may heal, or levitate object or himself but he can not grow to a gigantic size or he will die collapse by his own weight. He can not move or fly to a supersonic speed or faster without risking to desintegrate his own body. He can give him some psychic abilities without risking to burn his own brain.

The advantage of this power if you are not affected by anti-magic or dispell and able to resist to mind attacks but you can not do abilities beyond your natural limits. It's possible to go beyond but there are three possibilities:

1)you are still a 'pure' ki-user and you damage your body and pray a good healer or doctor may able to restore all in clear 100% your body functions with or without the help of Felarya'soil.

2)you have special protection, like a full armor or an helmet, some gauntlets, breastplate, shoes allowing to do that but if they are damaged or destroyed in that case you pray that a common blacksmith, or engineer may repair them or create new one as good as or stronger than the previous one. But if they are unique and you don't know where to find the original creators but if he is killed or dead many days,years, centuries or millenias ago. You have to travel hoping someone who may help you and the materials are still existed

3)You mix this ability with magic or psychic abilities and reduce the chance to damage your body and be more independant.

To conclude this ability can be used as an alternate system to magic, or psychic power but it makes the users need to have some knowledge in medecine or dependant on someone who possess strong healing abilities or you have an incredible faith Temi will heal you no matter where you are in Felarya

what do you think

I forsee clones of Ruy and Ken in Felarya from this description.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I forsee clones of Ryu and Ken in Felarya from this description.

It's possible they appears but an hadoken won't be enough to defeat Crisis

You'd need a Kamahame Hadouken to do it.

Sean Okotami wrote:

You'd need a Kamahame Hadouken to do it.

The problem with this skills is a pure physical attacks it may crushed easily a tank but against a living being who possess a strong physical resistance due to his ki there is a strong chance it resists or dodge this attack. A giant predator has naturally more ki than a human, so imagine a kamehame hadoken did by a predator

If we follow this logic humans and nekos can defeat giant predators like that tinies and neera can do the same to defeat humans and nekos.

Edit: Manipulate Ki like that's is riduclously useles because you gather a lot of energy into a flashy and predictable attack which will have more chance to destroy all your surrounding than your ennemy who will dodge,deviate or return it against you. Because it exists skills magic, psychic or simple ki manipulation which return your own energy blast. I will quote the boss of the King of Fighters saga Rugal Burnstein, this guy was the reason why many characters who throw fire blast start to reduce the range or change the effect of their skill.

If you think using ki energy in DBZ-like way it will be a pure waste, why because you gathered and important amount of energy in a powerfull blast which generally doesn't kill the opponent at the first time but destroy. They succeed in general after many tries or when the oponent has not energy or too stupid or too tired to dodge the blast. To conclude is an epic fail

Seems to be much better balanced. It's still somewhat early in the morning here, so I'm having difficulty coming up with specific thoughts about this. Possibly more later, but today is going to be a busy day for me.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

You'd need a Kamahame Hadouken to do it.

The problem with this skills is a pure physical attacks it may crushed easily a tank but against a living being who possess a strong physical resistance due to his ki there is a strong chance it resists or dodge this attack. A giant predator has naturally more ki than a human, so imagine a kamehame hadoken did by a predator

Are you sure about that?
I believe that when it comes to who has the most ki, it is not about physical size. It's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog. And yes, I believe tinies / Tom Thumbs might be able to defeat a human.

Raveolution wrote:

Are you sure about that?I believe that when it comes to who has the most ki, it is not about physical size.

The ki is mostly the energy within your body,you can use it to do physical attack or manipulation of energy but you will always follow the laws of physics, you will use them better than the average but not superior because you will still be resticted by these laws. A martail artist can be killed by a gun even if he can stop the ball. If you go beyond you use magic or psychics abilities.

Raveolution wrote:

It's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog.

And a poodle can win against a pit bull
The meaning of this sentence is power without control is nothing. In clear you can be the stonger but if you don't know how to attack correctly your opponent you are useless. The predators are dangerous because they know how to attack.

Raveolution wrote:

And yes, I believe tinies / Tom Thumbs might be able to defeat a human.

Yes if they come in numbers and with a good strategy and gears yes. But physically a human is stronger and have a better constitution. A tiny can kill a human by attacking the vital spots but the problem all the attacks of a humans are mostly lethal for a tinies.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Raveolution wrote:

Are you sure about that?I believe that when it comes to who has the most ki, it is not about physical size.

The ki is mostly the energy within your body,you can use it to do physical attack or manipulation of energy but you will always follow the laws of physics, you will use them better than the average but not superior because you will still be resticted by these laws. A martail artist can be killed by a gun even if he can stop the ball. If you go beyond you use magic or psychics abilities.

But how does having a physically larger body mean they have more life force?

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Raveolution wrote:

It's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog.

And a poodle can win against a pit bull
The meaning of this sentence is power without control is nothing. In clear you can be the stonger but if you don't know how to attack correctly your opponent you are useless. The predators are dangerous because they know how to attack.

Superman has brought down really large enemies before. So have many UFC fighters in real life. Sometimes the smaller guy is simply physically stronger, and also smarter.

I'm interpreting your point as more of a force=mass * acceleration thing than a life force thing.

A bigger predator does more damage with a tail whack. I'm not seeing how this says they have more life force, only that they have more mass.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Raveolution wrote:

And yes, I believe tinies / Tom Thumbs might be able to defeat a human.

Yes if they come in numbers and with a good strategy and gears yes. But physically a human is stronger and have a better constitution. A tiny can kill a human by attacking the vital spots but the problem all the attacks of a humans are mostly lethal for a tinies.

That is a force=mass x acceleration thing. A big object moving at a certain speed will crush a smaller object.

I'm just not seeing how this is the same thing as life force.

Raveolution wrote:

But how does having a physically larger body mean they have more life force?

1)because the mass is more important.

2)It's ki not life force.
The ki refers to the energy needs the body to function correctly.

Raveolution wrote:

Superman has brought down really large enemies before. So have many UFC fighters in real life.

In general superheros and UFC fighters are mostly godmodding characters and quoting them when you use after a pysical law

Raveolution wrote:

Sometimes the smaller guy is simply physically stronger, and also smarter.

It's a common cliché in many fictions. In general small guys are faster because they are lighter and need less energy to move, they did more damage because they hit where it hurts but they are not enought powerful to destroy the defense of their opponent and they are few resistant, so they can be easily one shot by the bigger guy.

A tiny can defeat a human but not if he fights on the domain of power. Because a human is more powerful due to his mass.

As I said power without control is nothing

A manipulator of ki knows better his strenght and weakness and learn to deal with them. It's not a question of power.

Raveolution wrote:

I'm interpreting your point as more of a force=mass * acceleration thing than a life force thing.

Again it's ki not life force
You are interpreting in the wrong way, the ki is the energy within the body, it varie between the living creature.

Life force=mass of the body * acceleration created by an energy it can be Ki or the natural energy of the body, or magic, or psychic.

Raveolution wrote:

A bigger predator does more damage with a tail whack. I'm not seeing how this says they have more life force, only that they have more mass.

To move important mass recquire more energy. The more the mass is important the more it recquires energy to move.

Raveolution wrote:

That is a force=mass x acceleration thing. A big object moving at a certain speed will crush a smaller object.

A force is the result of the action of an energy
The equation you give allow to measure the force, but you need an energy to create the move necessary.

The manipulation ki is mostly a manipulation of energy, more precisely the energy of your own body.

Raveolution wrote:

I'm just not seeing how this is the same thing as life force.

Sorry but if you read the second framework and the correction TheQuantumMechanic, it's two different things. I did a confusion between the life force the word using to define the concept of life but it's two things completely different.

The concept of manipulation of ki it's the energy necessary for the body to move, in clear to be alive.