Mantoids and Sexual Cannibalism

rcs619 wrote:

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but I dont want to change i that's the thing...I kinda want them to be "known for it" ..and I honestly dont really see a reason it's a problem...like I said nt all Mantoids eat the male...and I am even ok with tha it's a 50/50 thing...

We've all had to change ideas. Its just the way this kind of stuff works.

They aren't "known for it" though. Most of us just tried to ignore it, since it wasn't in the wiki, and just didn't work as an idea.

Reasons Mantoid sexual cannibalism is a problem:
1: Mantises don't do it in nature all that much. It is an exaggerated myth about them.

2: Mantoids are sentient. When spiders and mantises do it in nature, it is because they are stupid, and mistake the much smaller male for prey. Mantoids are smart, and I just cannot see a sentient race being fine with cannibalism.

3: In order to make it possible, you want males to be less than half the size of the females.

4: In order to make it possible, you want mantoids to have stretchy jaws, necks and chests to accomodate eating something half their size. Nagas are the only race that can do this.

5: The female Mantoid, since she lays eggs, would have a very mild pregnancy, and be perfectly able to move around and care for herself.

6: The species is needlessly decreasing its population and genetic diversity.

well if they cant swallow them it's going to be hard vore then...

the pregnacy thing I still want to apply since not only it plays a key role in my storyline...it just makes sense on my part...and if you think about it...40 egs will render one imobile...happens all the time in the wild...

like I said...I dont mind it being a 50/50 thing...like you said the races dont HAVE to be like real life...so I'll make them like this...

rcs619 wrote:

1: Mantises don't do it in nature all that much. It is an exaggerated myth about them.

It's more common among captive mantises than wild ones.

rcs619 wrote:

6: The species is needlessly decreasing its population and genetic diversity.

Yes. Consuming the male encourages only submissive or stupid males to mate, which is an evolutionary fallacy. It is a road towards species extinction.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

rcs619 wrote:

1: Mantises don't do it in nature all that much. It is an exaggerated myth about them.

It's more common among captive mantises than wild ones.

rcs619 wrote:

6: The species is needlessly decreasing its population and genetic diversity.

Yes. Consuming the male encourages only submissive or stupid males to mate, which is an evolutionary fallacy. It is a road towards species extinction.

Well not nessisarily with the submissive part...not all of them will be submissive...and mantoids are known to be an "aggressive" race...both male and female...

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well if they cant swallow them it's going to be hard vore then...

Kiki, I think it would be best to drop that idea, and scale up the male to a more realistic size. The rest of the race's bio seemed pretty good. The sexual cannibalism issue is really the only thing that doesn't fit in.

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like I said...I dont mind it being a 50/50 thing...like you said the races dont HAVE to be like real life...so I'll make them like this...

You just gotta be more open to tweaking and changing your ideas. That's the point of this forum, to help ideas fit in with the canon as best as possible.

rcs619 wrote:

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well if they cant swallow them it's going to be hard vore then...

Kiki, I think it would be best to drop that idea, and scale up the male to a more realistic size. The rest of the race's bio seemed pretty good. The sexual cannibalism issue is really the only thing that doesn't fit in.

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like I said...I dont mind it being a 50/50 thing...like you said the races dont HAVE to be like real life...so I'll make them like this...

You just gotta be more open to tweaking and changing your ideas. That's the point of this forum, to help ideas fit in with the canon as best as possible.

I undersstand this all...but it's just...this is like...one of the few things I DONT want to tweak...it's like the only spot that I dont want to...if it was another race the yes it would be fine but this one...no >.<...

not to mentien most of the sory concepts revolve around this so not only it will change somthing I dont want to change but completely ruin mystories...

again I dont see any reason why people are going crazy ober the sexual thing...I mean...sure they would be the only one doing it but still...that makes them unique...

I dunno... just personally, the idea of the whole sexual cannibalism thing bugs me.

Most mantis species have elaborate courtship rituals. But instead of that we get a false myth about them. It seems like a rip-off....

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not to mentien most of the sory concepts revolve around this so not only it will change somthing I dont want to change but completely ruin mystories...

You wouldn't be the first person who's had to alter their stories to fit in with changes in the canon. Its just a part of being part of building an ever-changing world...and for not coming onto the forum more, and discussion this issue months or years ago.

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again I dont see any reason why people are going crazy ober the sexual thing...I mean...sure they would be the only one doing it but still...that makes them unique...

Because nothing about the idea makes sense, or works. Its just flawed on a lot of levels.

I think a fair compromise would be that the sexual cannibalism is really on the whim of the character itself. Some actually do cannibalize, but it's not a widespread practice among them.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I think a fair compromise would be that the sexual cannibalism is really on the whim of the character itself. Some actually do cannibalize, but it's not a widespread practice among them.

I think Cliff has a problem with the physiology involved, not the psychology.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I think a fair compromise would be that the sexual cannibalism is really on the whim of the character itself. Some actually do cannibalize, but it's not a widespread practice among them.

like I said...I'm willing to comprimise a 50/50 thing...so half do half dont...

kikijonson wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

I think a fair compromise would be that the sexual cannibalism is really on the whim of the character itself. Some actually do cannibalize, but it's not a widespread practice among them.

like I said...I'm willing to comprimise a 50/50 thing...so half do half dont...

That doesn't solve the issue though, Kiki.

The males would still need to be tiny, which just doesn't make sense. There's no reason for males to be less than half the size of the females, and there's no reason for Mantoids to have needlessly stretchy bodies to support that.

rcs619 wrote:

kikijonson wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

I think a fair compromise would be that the sexual cannibalism is really on the whim of the character itself. Some actually do cannibalize, but it's not a widespread practice among them.

like I said...I'm willing to comprimise a 50/50 thing...so half do half dont...

That doesn't solve the issue though, Kiki.

The males would still need to be tiny, which just doesn't make sense. There's no reason for males to be less than half the size of the females, and there's no reason for Mantoids to have needlessly stretchy bodies to support that.

like I said if the swalling thing dosent work then thwy would have to do it the normal way...

Okay, the way I see it, we have a few options:
1. Soft vore, requiring the males to be really small
2. Soft vore, requiring the females to be really stretchy
3. Hard vore, which some people do not like because it's somehow more monstrous (???)
4. No sexual cannibalism vore

Cliff wants #4, but Kiki does not. #1 makes no sense, because mating couldn't occur. #2 raises some serious physiological issues, and seems tacky. #3 is controversial, because people around here much prefer to fap to soft vore than hard, and for some reason think it's more monstrous or barbaric to kill something quickly instead of slowly in the stomach.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Okay, the way I see it, we have a few options:
1. Soft vore, requiring the males to be really small
2. Soft vore, requiring the females to be really stretchy
3. Hard vore, which some people do not like because it's somehow more monstrous (???)
4. No sexual cannibalism vore

Cliff wants #4, but Kiki does not. #1 makes no sense, because mating couldn't occur. #2 raises some serious physiological issues, and seems tacky. #3 is controversial, because people around here much prefer to fap to soft vore than hard, and for some reason think it's more monstrous or barbaric to kill something quickly instead of slowly in the stomach.

then I would go with Hard vore...again I keep stating it's the option of the female to do it or not...

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#3 is controversial, because people around here much prefer to fap to soft vore than hard, and for some reason think it's more monstrous or barbaric to kill something quickly instead of slowly in the stomach.

Its not so much that. It is because that would turn Mantoids into a race of Hannibal Lecters. They would need to kill the male, cut up his body into food-sized bits, and then eat those bits.

It adds nothing to the race, except a needlessly gruesome custom that is based on a myth.

Its like that discussion we had months about about maybe making dolphin-based hybrids more prone to raping people, since dolphins are one of the only creatures known to actively engage in rape. Some animal traits do not transition well over to half-human/half-animal hybrids.

I think Jeatte has proposed the best option so far. Focus on the complex mating rituals of real mantises, not an exaggerated myth that only a tiny fraction of them have been seen to do.

rcs619 wrote:

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#3 is controversial, because people around here much prefer to fap to soft vore than hard, and for some reason think it's more monstrous or barbaric to kill something quickly instead of slowly in the stomach.

Its not so much that. It is because that would turn Mantoids into a race of Hannibal Lecters. They would need to kill the male, cut up his body into food-sized bits, and then eat those bits.

It adds nothing to the race, except a needlessly gruesome custom that is based on a myth.

Its like that discussion we had months about about maybe making dolphin-based hybrids more prone to raping people, since dolphins are one of the only creatures known to actively engage in rape. Some animal traits do not transition well over to half-human/half-animal hybrids.

I think Jeatte has proposed the best option so far. Focus on the complex mating rituals of real mantises, not an exaggerated myth that only a tiny fraction of them have been seen to do.

OK....seriously this will be the LAST time of me stating this...ok...

I based the eating each other ing off a common trait that INSECTS do...
..key word is INSECT...

INSECT ok...last time i checked...Mantices are insect (unless you say they only hve 4 legs)

seriousy why wont you guys get that...please...I didnt base the race off of that myth ok...it nothing to do with the mantis eating the males head thing...

and they will have o chew...or cut up...or what ever...it's hard vore...it's unique to ther race...nothing too bad?...I'm sure adventually other races wll do it...heck I dont even like it but I added it to it...why not respect that?....

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I based the eating each other ing off a common trait that INSECTS do...
..key word is INSECT...

INSECT ok...last time i checked...Mantices are insect (unless you say they only hve 4 legs)

They are insects, yes.

Pantaurs are mammals, but I can't go and give them stink glands because skunks are also mammals. Or give them poisonous spurs because the duck-billed platypus has them.

You made a species based on a specific real-world animal. You can't just go and give it traits of other insects just because they are in the same animal kingdom. It isn't even that common among insects. Spiders don't count towards that either, since they are arachnids, not insects.

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seriousy why wont you guys get that...please...I didnt base the race off of that myth ok...it nothing to do with the mantis eating the males head thing...

Why would you make a species based off a specific animal...and then give it such a huge trait, if you knew that mantises don't do that? It seems a bit odd.

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and they will have o chew...or cut up...or what ever...it's hard vore...it's unique to ther race...nothing too bad?...I'm sure adventually other races wll do it...heck I dont even like it but I added it to it...why not respect that?....

No, other races don't do that. Its just...not a good idea, Kiki. I've tried to explain why, but it doesn't look like you're going to listen.

Doesn't change much for the rest of us anyway. People will just go on ignoring that aspect, and assuming its strictly non-canon.

rcs619 wrote:

Its like that discussion we had months about about maybe making dolphin-based hybrids more prone to raping people, since dolphins are one of the only creatures known to actively engage in rape. Some animal traits do not transition well over to half-human/half-animal hybrids.

Yyyeah....that wasn't one of my best ideas

To be honest, why couldn't we leave the issue with the mantoids as an in-universe urban myth as it kind of was already? It feels pointless to discuss about it, and changing mantoids to find ways to get around this like kiki is saying would not only not make sense but would stop making them mantis people to begin with

after doing research and talking to people...Naga's ARENT th only race with stretch throats...Dryads and some other races have stretchy throats...so this brings up what I said about the males can be about half the size as the female...and the female can swallow or hard vore the male...if the female wants to...typically the ratio of the female eating the male is 50/50...so half the time they do...

it makes sense and everyone is happy...

kikijonson wrote:

after doing research and talking to people...Naga's ARENT th only race with stretch throats...Dryads and some other races have stretchy throats...so this brings up what I said about the males can be about half the size as the female...and the female can swallow or hard vore the male...if the female wants to...typically the ratio of the female eating the male is 50/50...so half the time they do...

it makes sense and everyone is happy...

Nagas, and to a lesser extent, slug girls are the ONLY ones.

The only two species that actively engage in eating beings similar to them in size are Nagas and Dridders (they use a venom that liquify's the prey's insides, which they then suck out).

It still doesn't change the fact that this idea adds nothing to the race, is based on a myth, forces the males to be abnormally tiny, and just does not work.

Actually, Dryads may have a stretchy throat, but not a stretchy mouth. It needs to fit inside to begin with, but they likely are masters of deep throating.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Actually, Dryads may have a stretchy throat, but not a stretchy mouth. It needs to fit inside to begin with, but they likely are masters of deep throating.

I wasmearly stating that they do...but there are other races that have both stretch mouths and throats like gyspas...

kikijonson wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

Actually, Dryads may have a stretchy throat, but not a stretchy mouth. It needs to fit inside to begin with, but they likely are masters of deep throating.

I wasmearly stating that they do...but there are other races that have both stretch mouths and throats like gyspas...

The Gypsa entry is over 2 years old, and has not been touched in that time. It is massively out of date, and isn't really a good example to be using.

rcs619 wrote:

kikijonson wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

Actually, Dryads may have a stretchy throat, but not a stretchy mouth. It needs to fit inside to begin with, but they likely are masters of deep throating.

I wasmearly stating that they do...but there are other races that have both stretch mouths and throats like gyspas...

The Gypsa entry is over 2 years old, and has not been touched in that time. It is massively out of date, and isn't really a good example to be using.

I'm just going with the example Karbo gave me...

rcs619 wrote:

Nagas, and to a lesser extent, slug girls are the ONLY ones.

No actually shadow dryads, gyspas, razias, meiramines, elementals, chlaenas and some others enter this category too.

I remind people that Mantoids are not an integrated species. They belongs to Kiki since she choose to retain ownership of them during the round of asking two years ago. So she should be the one to decide in the end.

Personnaly if the males are half-size I don't see why it couldn't work.