The Sueishness of Your Characters

Sean Okotami wrote:

That's my personal opinion, but I think a Non-Sue is better than an Anti-Sue. By necessity, the protagonist(s) must be special to justify its role as the main character(s). The Anti-Sue sounds like that it's so safe as to make the character generic and kind of bland. The biggest problem with Mary Sues, IMO, is that people take the special part to a point where their presence is distracting and overpowering.

Im still trying to work out how to develop her as soon as I have her character will be herself but till then she's got a bit of growing to do I guess

Apparently, my characters average from a negative (-7) to 0-ish / low 1's. Apparently, having baseline humans / demi-humans who are morally questionable is an easy way to avoid sue-ism.

Note that this was discounting the Mages, who are invariably raised in sue points due to powers.

Much of the issues tend to come in background and the character's origins, though, when it comes to other people making sues. If your character outline starts with "an orphan" or "born under mysterious circumstances" or anything of the sort, you're already starting to tread on sue territory. If your character has a name that no-one should name their baby (Don't name your kid some foreign languages' word for berserker, please), that's another starting point. If they're an odd hybrid of some sort? You're trying to play the trope of a typical fantasy character (specifically Eastern, unless the hybrid is something more like mixed parental race instead of species), aren't you?

I think anti-Sues only mean that the character needs a better development for being more special. Although the test isn't that big for some of my characters, who have some special remarks but aren't covered in such test, and so will happen with other people's characters. Still, the test also says that you don't have to take the scores too seriously: your character might be somehow special, but his specialities aren't covered there... or your character might score as a Mary Sue but actually is a well-developed one.

I only made this for fun, as I don't trust these tests too much. I prefer to watch my steps and get actual feedback.

Sean Okotami wrote:

That's my personal opinion, but I think a Non-Sue is better than an Anti-Sue. By necessity, the protagonist(s) must be special to justify its role as the main character(s). The Anti-Sue sounds like that it's so safe as to make the character generic and kind of bland. The biggest problem with Mary Sues, IMO, is that people take the special part to a point where their presence is distracting and overpowering.

It depends Louis, somewhere like Felarya a Non-Sue would be great, but if you were say writing a story about war and you wanted to tell the story from the viewpoint of the average joe, an Anti-Sue would be best.

Daejien wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

That's my personal opinion, but I think a Non-Sue is better than an Anti-Sue. By necessity, the protagonist(s) must be special to justify its role as the main character(s). The Anti-Sue sounds like that it's so safe as to make the character generic and kind of bland. The biggest problem with Mary Sues, IMO, is that people take the special part to a point where their presence is distracting and overpowering.

It depends Louis, somewhere like Felarya a Non-Sue would be great, but if you were say writing a story about war and you wanted to tell the story from the viewpoint of the average joe, an Anti-Sue would be best.

I disagree. Anti-sues are still artificial feeling.

The best way is to make a well balanced character. In Felarya that can include magical swords, just not ones that shoot lasers. The trick is to know when to stop and which direction to take.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Daejien wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

That's my personal opinion, but I think a Non-Sue is better than an Anti-Sue. By necessity, the protagonist(s) must be special to justify its role as the main character(s). The Anti-Sue sounds like that it's so safe as to make the character generic and kind of bland. The biggest problem with Mary Sues, IMO, is that people take the special part to a point where their presence is distracting and overpowering.

It depends Louis, somewhere like Felarya a Non-Sue would be great, but if you were say writing a story about war and you wanted to tell the story from the viewpoint of the average joe, an Anti-Sue would be best.

I disagree. Anti-sues are still artificial feeling.

The best way is to make a well balanced character. In Felarya that can include magical swords, just not ones that shoot lasers. The trick is to know when to stop and which direction to take.

I don't think Anti-Sues are artificial at all. This test gives questions that are to find Mary Sues, not to find "boring" characters. None of my characters got above "Anti-Sue". None of them are superpowered, but they are quite competent. Plus, it's not about the "power" of your character, it's about the character of your character.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Daejien wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

That's my personal opinion, but I think a Non-Sue is better than an Anti-Sue. By necessity, the protagonist(s) must be special to justify its role as the main character(s). The Anti-Sue sounds like that it's so safe as to make the character generic and kind of bland. The biggest problem with Mary Sues, IMO, is that people take the special part to a point where their presence is distracting and overpowering.

It depends Louis, somewhere like Felarya a Non-Sue would be great, but if you were say writing a story about war and you wanted to tell the story from the viewpoint of the average joe, an Anti-Sue would be best.

I disagree. Anti-sues are still artificial feeling.

The best way is to make a well balanced character. In Felarya that can include magical swords, just not ones that shoot lasers. The trick is to know when to stop and which direction to take.

I don't think Anti-Sues are artificial at all. This test gives questions that are to find Mary Sues, not to find "boring" characters. None of my characters got above "Anti-Sue". None of them are superpowered, but they are quite competent. Plus, it's not about the "power" of your character, it's about the character of your character.

Take a mary sue, reverse their sue character traits and any powers they have. That's an anti-sue and it's just as artificial feeling as a mary-sue because the core parts of "sue" is still there, them still doing well OR being focused on.
If you have a character with no redeeming features, yet other characters still try to help them with no apparent motivation, you've probably got an anti-sue on your hands. It's artificial.

The tv-tropes article pretty much sums up my definition of an anti-sue.

Guess it depends on the writing itself. Aisu and Ruby tested Borderline, but no ones explicitly pointed their fingers at me all like "MARY SOOO!" Several people don't like Aisu, I've heard, but they haven't really stated 'Mary Sue' as a reason. I'd imagine the same can go for Anti-Sues, though. Olive and Stark scored Anti-Sues, and people really like Stark, from what I hear. (Don't be afraid to tell me you hate my characters, people! D: )

Speaking of, Aisu is an old character of mine, as you can tell by his unconventional name, dating back to around 2006-2007. I tested the Aisu I had when I myself was 16...

...

117. Herpderp, I was a douche when I was a youngling :B Seeing that score, I'm glaaad he scored a 30 now four years later. Tells me I've matured much as a writer and as a person in general in such little time. ^^;

EDIT: Wait... does that mean I redeemed an Irredeemable Sue...? o____o I'd imagine it's possible, but... dayum

AJ, all that TV Tropes Page did was basically disprove the definition of Anti-Sue on the litmus test. On that test a Score between 0-10 isn't a bad thing. Trying to be the exact opposite and do everything the opposite of Mary Sue is Bad.

That's not quite what the test means. The test mostly qualifies the Anti-Sue as the antithesis of the Mary Sue, because the character have little that makes it stand out in a crowd. Like I said, that Anti-Sue is not bad, it's the one you described that is bad.

Oh, right.
I don't recall reading the definition given by the litmus test.
I stand corrected.

Exactly. Many of the characters people have posted list as "Anit-Sues" on the test but are still great, fascinating characters. Would you honestly say Stark has little that makes him stand out?

Being an Anti-Sue in this case is NOT about being bland or not standing out in a crowd - it is by creating a character that is original, realistic and has weaknesses and comes into the world in a natural way.

A Mary-Sue doesn't have to be an OP animesque character. Perhaps one of the greatest examples of a Mary Sue, Wesley Crusher, was just a kid. But still so annoying. (Guessing some stuff he scores between 70 and 80 on that test).

A Mary Sue is annoying because it is either an idealized version of the author, an indestructible character, both physically, mentally and socially or both.

I agree and while I don't think this Anti-Sue is bad, I think it could use a little more spices. Just saying.

I think that these tests have to be taken with a grain of salt. I ran a character through one test and got told they were a sue and then ran them through another and was told they were well balanced. Most of these tests are also focused on girl charcters. Most of my character's abilities weren't even considered.

I still think that, despite the test going through a lot of aspects, I'm sure some of us have characters with many things that don't appear in such test, therefor they will rank low. But as I said before, even the webpage itself states that you don't have to consider the scores too seriously.

The thing is fleshing out your character. That's why I like stories for developing them and that's what I do. Also, some of my characters that have ranked as anti-Sues have been considered at least with some interest.

Exactly. A character can be interesting AND original.

Wouldn't stress over test like this especially if you are writing in the Felaryan universe.

Certain species are gonna rack up points just for being there.

For instance, the most mundane angel is an automatic border-sue, because you get points for being an angel, points for flight, points for having wings because you were an angel, and points for looking younger than the character really is.

Grave wrote:

Wouldn't stress over test like this especially if you are writing in the Felaryan universe.

Certain species are gonna rack up points just for being there.

For instance, the most mundane angel is an automatic border-sue, because you get points for being an angel, points for flight, points for having wings because you were an angel, and points for looking younger than the character really is.

Not to mention that having high moral standards apparently does, too.

Zerrrroooooooooooooooooo

Claire wrote:

Zerrrroooooooooooooooooo

Is that what Sineria's score is?

I know she isn't a mary sue, but I can smell something fishy about that.

I guess you could say

*sunglasses*

She's spinning a web of deception.

Spoiler:

Grave wrote:

Wouldn't stress over test like this especially if you are writing in the Felaryan universe.

Certain species are gonna rack up points just for being there.

For instance, the most mundane angel is an automatic border-sue, because you get points for being an angel, points for flight, points for having wings because you were an angel, and points for looking younger than the character really is.

I agree with this as well.

The test itself says some characters that place as mary sues are just fine. The test isn't for everyone after all.

Pendragon wrote:

I know she isn't a mary sue, but I can smell something fishy about that.

I guess you could say

*sunglasses*

She's spinning a web of deception.

Spoiler:

I laughed out loud at that. It's genuinely funny.

It is with some trepidation that I take this test, but my curiosity cannot be quelled. So here it goes…

Rachel Gyfford: 18

Holly: 15

Mina: 14

Naora: 11

Nerissa: 10

Beatrice Sangria: 7

Nene:... -1

Hmmm, that wasn't so bad. I am a little surprised that Rachel scored so much higher than Naora, but I suppose being a sexy, magical pirate is worth more points than a badass sexy ninja explorer.

My charcters, starting with the ones I would dare put in Felarya:

Robin: Universal: Probably Non-Sue.

Gen: Origional: Non-Sue.

Jack: Universal: Non-Sue.

Lovey: Universal: Definitely Sue-like Tendencies. Origional: Non-Sue.

Meh.

AisuKaiko wrote:

I tested the Aisu I had when I myself was 16...

...

117.

>Test Phione
>Receive 3

I'm perfectly fine with this.

that's pretty good. i remember testing a couple of my characters back when, and getting like 10 or something. I cant really remember.

Anyhow, no one's perfect, so as long as people try not to keep their character's sue-ish I think they have a chance