Expanding/refining the Isolon Fist

Pendragon wrote:

All of that sounds like a decent proposal so far.

I do have one question though. Karbo said that the effects of the Eye would be different to all predators. How so exactly? Are there some that would be immune to the eye, or would the eye cause some predators to keel over in pain?

Or is it basically just "differing levels of deterrance"?

I believe it has to do with their voraciousness.

For example, Fiona would probably be able to get closer to Negav than Crisis before the effect of the Eye becomes unbearable and she'd have to turn around.

The Eye becomes painful to all predators at some point. It can also be lethal at close range. Like, if a Harpy tried to dive-bomb through the field, to snatch up someone from the city streets, she'd probably just outright die from over-exposure to the field.

The only known pred species that is immune to the effect of the Isolon Eye are the Dusk Nymphs. But they are rare, and not even native to the near-Negav region. The only way they'd get to the city is if one happened to latch onto someone's shadow and ride all the way back. I imagine there are emergency plans in place though to hunt down Dusk Nymphs, should it become known one is loose in the city.

rcs619 wrote:

Pendragon wrote:

All of that sounds like a decent proposal so far.

I do have one question though. Karbo said that the effects of the Eye would be different to all predators. How so exactly? Are there some that would be immune to the eye, or would the eye cause some predators to keel over in pain?

Or is it basically just "differing levels of deterrance"?

I believe it has to do with their voraciousness.

For example, Fiona would probably be able to get closer to Negav than Crisis before the effect of the Eye becomes unbearable and she'd have to turn around.

The Eye becomes painful to all predators at some point. It can also be lethal at close range. Like, if a Harpy tried to dive-bomb through the field, to snatch up someone from the city streets, she'd probably just outright die from over-exposure to the field.

The only known pred species that is immune to the effect of the Isolon Eye are the Dusk Nymphs. But they are rare, and not even native to the near-Negav region. The only way they'd get to the city is if one happened to latch onto someone's shadow and ride all the way back. I imagine there are emergency plans in place though to hunt down Dusk Nymphs, should it become known one is loose in the city.

...Or employed as an Assassin/Spy...

*Cough.*

But yes, it's this variable nature of the Eye that would make patrols such as this very important, as I'd doubt Negav would want ANY Giant Predators getting close, regardless of their voraciousness.

It would also serve as an early warning system in the event a Predator immune to the Eye's effects were to appear, such as my Abyssal Tonorion invasion scenario.

So the Isolon Fist has a contingency plan to handle Dusk Nymphs? Good to hear.

Pendragon wrote:

So the Isolon Fist has a contingency plan to handle Dusk Nymphs? Good to hear.

I would assume so.

Not that it would be easy though. Dusk Nymphs would probably be the most difficult type of Fairy to catch. On the bright side, she couldn't grow giant inside the city, or she'd be gunned down...so all you'd need to do is try and corner her, and keep in groups so she can't pick people off one at a time. Maybe some kind of special sensor devices could be used to detect her?

Either way, it'd be a massive hassle, as well as a PR nightmare for the Magiocrats.

Awwww.....but who would wanna hurt a cute little dusk nymph.......she's just a little hungry.

On the subject of dealing with internal threats like a Dusk Nymph sneaking in, whoes responsibility does it fall under to deal with the issue, the Isolon Fists, or the Internal Security Division?

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

On the subject of dealing with internal threats like a Dusk Nymph sneaking in, whoes responsibility does it fall under to deal with the issue, the Isolon Fists, or the Internal Security Division?

Hmm, well the Isolon Fist are specially trained to deal with predators.

Although, considering a Dusk Nymph incursion is probably treated wth the same seriousness as a natural disaster, it wouldn't suprise me if there were some cooperation.

Yes due to a random spark of being reminded about this thread, I had designed a kind of Hierarchy that the isolon fist might use, what do you think about this?

The Isolon fist is divided into multiple tiers, each tier is designated by a different item marked with an emblem of the fist.

Rank 1: Initiates
Rank item: lapel pin of the isolon fist insignia.
Description: Fresh recruits scouted from the academy, or other sources, though mostly the academy. They make up the backbone of the Isolon fist and are constantly observed in the field for any potential that could lead to improvement in rank.

Rank 2: Battlemages and Arms Knights
Rank Item: gloves bearing the fist emblem on the right hand, and on the left hand an emblem of a tome for battlemages, and a sword for arms knights.
Description: Initiates who show a strong specialization in magic or weaponry get promoted to this rank, their job is to provide advanced power and support for any deployed squads, as well as provide leadership.

Rank 3: Operators
Rank item: pocket watch
Description: Initiates who possess little battle skill, but incredible tacitcal knowledge and leadership ability become operators, they rarely leave the city, and instead lead squads in combat from specialized operator chambers in the city through telepathic or radio communication with squad leaders. However their lack of battle ability makes the operator rank as a plateau that very few, if any will ever be promoted from.

Rank 4: Elites
Rank item: dagger
Description: When a soldier has presented themselves with advanced abilities in both magical prowess and weaponry become elites, these soldiers are powerful enough to fight an average pred one on one, and for that reason they are allowed to engage in solo missions, they are also in charge of recruitment and will scout for new recruits to the fist. At this rank the soldier is expected to have attained complete and unwavering loyalty to the magiocracy, and understand the rules entitled to their loyalty. As such, if an elite show show their loyalties begin to waver, they are executed with the dagger given to them upon achievement of this rank, be it by their own hands or by the hands of other elites.

Rank 5: Isolon Guard
Rank item: cloak and ring
Description: The most powerful members of the fist, their loyalty is unquestionable, and their power is unfathomable. The Isolon guard's job is first and formost the protection of the Magiocrat high council, and enactment of any orders the council may give them. There are only a handful of members of the guard, and each member is assigned to a member of the magiocrat council. Once assigned to their master, the Guard member is presented with a cloak bearing the colors of their master's family, and a ring bearing an ascarlin gemstone, and the symbol of the isolon fist engraved in the stone. Being a member of the isolon guard is very serious business, and they consider their master's life to be linked to their own, and if their master is killed outside of natural causes (ie. non-poison related medical complications), the guard member is expected to take their own life as punishment for failing their master. This is a very serious law to them and if a guard does not take their life in this situation
then they are labeled a traitor, and hunted down by the rest of the guard.

Rank Six: The Grand Fist
Rank Item: While Cloak bearing the emblem of the fist, and the emblems of each member of the magiocrat council
Description: The Leader of the Isolon Fist, and the one who has almost enough power and influence as a member of the council themselves. The leader rotates along with the council leader since each member of the isolon guard is in charge of one member of the council, it is only natural that when the council member they protect rotates into the head position, they become the head of the fist while their master remains head of the council. Perks include being able to attend council meetings that would otherwise be totally private to all non-council members, as well as being the deciding vote on any council decisions that should wind up a deadlock tie. The Grand Fist also decides when any fist member should recieve promotions to new ranks. they may also are in charge of organizing missions and assigning task forces.

This could be a general idea of how things might work, what do you guys think?

@ Nekko

Hmmm, some good ideas in there. Lemme just try to re-organize them/put my own spin on them.

1: Apprentice/Recruit: The starting rank for those who seek to enter The Fist

- Apprentice: A mage that has been selected for his/her strong magical abilities, and potential to grow into a more powerful mage. These young mages are taken into the Isolon Fist where they recieve more in-depth training, with a focus on wide-area magical attacks, and tactics to take on large animals and the giant hybrids. As an Apprentice, they are given a gray cloak. The material is magically reactive, and whenever the apprentice reaches a new milestone in their training, the cloak gradually becomes whiter and whiter until it reaches the pure-white of a Battlemage's cloak upon the completion of their training.

At this point, the Apprentice is given the rank of Battlemage, and inducted into their ranks. They will then be paired up with a partner who's magic works well with their's, and attatched to a squad of soldiers.

- Recruit: A non-mage that has been accepted into The Fist. The undergo intense physical conditioning, as well as in-depth courses on squad tactics, and wild flora and fauna. They also get trained how to operate the high-tech offworld weaponry that forms the core of the Isolon Fist's armory. Upon completing their training, they are given their official gear, insignias and are assigned to an Isolon Fist detatchment.

2: Battlemage/Soldier (Arms Knight? I kind of liked that name. Had a nice sci-fantasy ring to it): These form the bulk of the Isolon Fist, and are the groups actively sent out on missions to keep Negav and its assets secure.

- Battlemage: These powerful mages act as the leaders of an Isolon Fist detatchment. They always work in pairs, usually with another mage who's magic meshes well with that of the other's. They are easily identified by their distinctive white clothing, and the small shield-shaped piece of metal worn over their hearts, with the symbol of the eye engraved into it.

- Soldiers (Arms Knights?): These non-mages act as escorts and battlefield support for the Battlemages. They are well-armed, with powerful military-grade weaponry, either imported from offworld, or made by gunsmiths in the direct employ of the Magiocrat council. Rockets, belt-fed machineguns, and other powerful armaments make up their arsenal.

3: Officers: These are, usually older, soldiers and battlemages that have spent many years with The Fist. They have earned the right to support The Fist in ways other than combat. They stay in Negav, and are largely in charge of giving combat detatchments their orders, scouting for new potential Battlemages and Soldiers, as well as setting up, and monitoring the various training regimens. These Officers also act as a middleground between the warriors in the field and Isolon Fist command, relaying mission results, as well as potential concerns.

While a prestigeous position, most of these Officers often complain about the amount of paperwork and baeurocracy involved.

4: Isolon Fist High-Command: A committee of The Fist's eldest and most influencial soldiers and Battlemages. They are responsible for overseeing the Officer Corps, as well as monitoring the effectiveness of the combat detachments and training programs. Their most important job is interacting with the Magiocrats Council directly, and making requests, usually for additional funding or weapons. They also have to answer to the Magiocrat Council when any large mistakes or foul-ups occur.

** Isolon Guard: The Isolon Guard is not so much a rank, as it is an assignment. Most Magiocrats prefer to keep an Isolon Fist detachment around as their personal guard detail. Most of the time detachments are recommended based on their performance records when a new guard position becomes available. Sometimes Magiocrats will choose their own guards, based on personal preferrence for specific Battlemages, or soldiers.

Generally, the Isolon Guard is considered one of the easier positions in The Fist. The pay is good, there are no giant monsters, and you get to live on your Magiocrat's personal compound.

((Just my own spin on Nekko's ideas. To make them a bit more organized. The gray, color-chaning cloaks were Anime-Junkie's idea))

Hmmm, if the Fist use off-world weaponry, would they have any Wiglaf Specials?

I mean, it might not have the weight of fire of an M2 Browning expy or the range of a .50 Sniper Rifle since it's a semi-automatic assault carbine, but it's a hell of a lot more portable.

Black Aquila wrote:

Hmmm, if the Fist use off-world weaponry, would they have any Wiglaf Specials?

I mean, it might not have the weight of fire of an M2 Browning expy or the range of a .50 Sniper Rifle since it's a semi-automatic assault carbine, but it's a hell of a lot more portable.

Well if they had access to those weapons they might be used by recruits and stuff, but once you get to the upper echelons of the Fist rankings they are going to be using very powerful weapons hand tailored to their specific abilities,

True, the officers might have custom weapons, but the troopers are going to be using the standard issue guns. Militaries need cohesiveness and consistency. You can't have that if everyone's got their own special weapon that has different capabilities.

Prof.Nekko wrote:

Black Aquila wrote:

Hmmm, if the Fist use off-world weaponry, would they have any Wiglaf Specials?

I mean, it might not have the weight of fire of an M2 Browning expy or the range of a .50 Sniper Rifle since it's a semi-automatic assault carbine, but it's a hell of a lot more portable.

Well if they had access to those weapons they might be used by recruits and stuff, but once you get to the upper echelons of the Fist rankings they are going to be using very powerful weapons hand tailored to their specific abilities,

It would depend on the mission as well.

Isolon Fist members assigned to say, protect a Magiocrat, are going to be using a completely different loadout than those going off into the forest to drive off a pred. Rocket-launchers for example, probably aren't going to be used a whole lot within the city walls, and you'd see more assault rifles and carbines than belt-fed guns.

Just depends on the mission. Like any military, they have a wide variety of weapons at their disposal, both offworld guns, and weapons made by the Isolon Fist's/Magriocrats' personal blacksmiths and gunsmiths.

rcs619 wrote:

Prof.Nekko wrote:

Black Aquila wrote:

Hmmm, if the Fist use off-world weaponry, would they have any Wiglaf Specials?

I mean, it might not have the weight of fire of an M2 Browning expy or the range of a .50 Sniper Rifle since it's a semi-automatic assault carbine, but it's a hell of a lot more portable.

Well if they had access to those weapons they might be used by recruits and stuff, but once you get to the upper echelons of the Fist rankings they are going to be using very powerful weapons hand tailored to their specific abilities,

It would depend on the mission as well.

Isolon Fist members assigned to say, protect a Magiocrat, are going to be using a completely different loadout than those going off into the forest to drive off a pred. Rocket-launchers for example, probably aren't going to be used a whole lot within the city walls, and you'd see more assault rifles and carbines than belt-fed guns.

Just depends on the mission. Like any military, they have a wide variety of weapons at their disposal, both offworld guns, and weapons made by the Isolon Fist's/Magriocrats' personal blacksmiths and gunsmiths.

Ah, in that case I would assume something like the Wiglaf would be used as a standard armament out in the field and more like the Beowulf weapon system it's based off of within Negav.

Well, I can take a hint about the reception of this idea. Ignored, or picked apart for any flaws to try and disprove any part of it.

Good to know that ideas based on LOGIC and REASON aren't welcome around these parts.

That's fine though. Karbo's made it more than clear that there is no "true" Felarya, and no true canon. If any idiot on DA can have their "own" Felarya without knowing a dammed thing about the setting, then I'll just keep my ideas to MY Felarya. My fault for actually trying to help develop and refine an idea in a setting where the canon doesn't mean shit, and people who try to inform people about it get accused of being "bullies", "no-lives" or "gatekeepers".

Message recieved, loud and clear. The Isolon Fist are not capable of defending the city, and Negav is basically a prison any pred can loiter near for a quick snack without any negative consequences.

Not in my "view of Felarya" though, not in mine.

Guess I'll just keep my ideas to myself from now on, and to my stories (if I can ever get back in the right mindset to do something with this setting again).

At this point, the only reason I hang around is for the Q and A thread. Because, well, SOMEONE has to keep an eye on that thread to make sure the info is correct. For what little bit correct info matters around here.

There is a part of Cliff's point that I agree with.
It seemed this idea was purposefully ignored for no good reason. I saw nothing that refuted the ideas and logic he presented. Yeah sure, it was said that the fist would suffer "huge losses."
But was anything presented to back that up? Nope. Cliff's point stands. Yes, the environment is hostile, but the fist are especially trained for it. The fist are supposed to be competent, but not just that; they're elites.

If we assume that the fist can not take down a predator in an environment they are trained for, with air scouts, in an area that they frequent and would be familiar with due to being there home field so to speak, then they are not elite nor competent.
But the wiki touts them as a force to be reckoned with.

This is a contradiction that it must be resolved. It can not be had both ways.

rcs619 wrote:

Good to know that ideas based on LOGIC and REASON aren't welcome around these parts.

You're, uh, surprised by this?

rcs619 wrote:

That's fine though. Karbo's made it more than clear that there is no "true" Felarya, and no true canon. If any idiot on DA can have their "own" Felarya without knowing a dammed thing about the setting, then I'll just keep my ideas to MY Felarya. My fault for actually trying to help develop and refine an idea in a setting where the canon doesn't mean shit, and people who try to inform people about it get accused of being "bullies", "no-lives" or "gatekeepers".

Just don't start writing like the idiots, please. It'd kill me inside. Unless it's satire. I love satire. Also, I always found "no-lives" to be funny. I mean, I have two jobs. That's a life. And gates really do need to be kept, or else their hinges get all rusty and they creak terribly.

rcs619 wrote:

Message recieved, loud and clear. The Isolon Fist are not capable of defending the city, and Negav is basically a prison any pred can loiter near for a quick snack without any negative consequences.

Okay, snarkiness aside, I think that you're reading a little much into that, Cliff. I support your opposition to the "in olden days, a glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking, but now, God knows, anything goes" situation we're in, but overreacting ain't gonna fix that. And rest assured: we should be aiming to fix it. A losing battle is still a battle, and I'll be damned if I refuse to fight. I think Karbo meant that Fist teams don't often walk into the jungle and start pwning preds for kicks and giggles. That's not what you meant, but that's how he interpreted it.

Quote :

There is a part of Cliff's point that I agree with.
It seemed this idea was purposefully ignored for no good reason. I saw nothing that refuted the ideas and logic he presented. Yeah sure, it was said that the fist would suffer "huge losses."
But was anything presented to back that up? Nope. Cliff's point stands. Yes, the environment is hostile, but the fist are especially trained for it. The fist are supposed to be competent, but not just that; they're elites.

I honestly still doubt the "horrible losses" part myself.

The fact is, the Isolon Fist in my interpretation know their advantages and exploits them. Their main advantage is aerial superiority. They have jetbikes or human-sized harpy scouts in the air during all ops. Giant Harpies have learned to give Negav a WIIIIIIIIDE berth, so they wouldn't even be an issue for the aerial scouts 90% of the time. If you give these aerial scouts thermal goggles (or hell, some kind of magically enchanted goggles) then seeing through the trees is no problem at all. They could keep constant tabs on the giant pred, and relay that information back to the people on the ground through short-range radios (jet-bikes) or just landing for a second to tell them (Harpies).

It isn't like the Isolon Fist are just bumbling through the forest until they run into the pred they are after. They have eyes in the sky the entire time. Special-ops/Elite soldiers don't play fair. They don't do anything halfway. If they have an advantage (unstoppable aerial scouting in this case), they are going to abuse the hell out of it and get as much use out of it as possible.

Because of their scouts, they can literally choose the battlefield, and choose when to engage the pred they are after. Hell, they could just wait until it takes a nap (since 90% of preds seem to take a nap right after eating), surround him/her while he/she's sleeping, and have the battlemages wake him/her up to deliever the "leave or die" message. Hell, with the ability to constantly track a pred's location, it would be extremely simple to set up an ambush in its path.

Im not saying that every single encounter with a pred is going to always go to plan. You can only plan ahead until you come into contact with the enemy. Then any plans go out the window. All Im saying is that the Fist is going to have everything stacked in their advantage before they engage. They will know exactly when its going to get there, will have it surrounded as soon as it wanders into position, and they have the weapons and magic to seriously injure or kill it, should things escalate to that point.

Isolon Fist members are going to die here and there, sure. But there aren't going to be "horrible losses". They aren't the Navy SEAL's, deep in enemy territory with no support. The Isolon Fist is right in their back yard, with the right weapons for the job, and constant aerial surveillance of the enemy they are hunting. If you want to think of it that way, that's basically what they do. They hunt predators. The scouts in the air locate them, and then the ground troops hunt them down and force them to run away and never return...or die.