Felarya Felarya forum |
| | The conflict, final resolution | |
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+15PrinnyDood French snack Archmage_Bael Pendragon TheArchvile Silent_eric Krisexy26 Sehoolighan Feadraug ZionAtriedes Karbo Shady Knight Prof.Nekko Anime-Junkie Darkstorm Zero 19 posters | |
Author | Message |
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Darkstorm Zero Moderator
Posts : 727 Join date : 2008-02-06 Age : 43 Location : The road to Hell
| Subject: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:16 pm | |
| We have made a breathtaking step in the right direction today, the first step at resolving the conflict that has plagued our fare community in the universe of Felarya since 2009 AC. - Quote :
- Originally posted in the Chatbox following the now deleted announcement to end Felarya's creative input
- Spoiler:
[04:28:41 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Hello Karbs.
[04:28:49 21/07/11] @ Karbo : hello.
[04:28:56 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : How are we?.
[04:29:26 21/07/11] @ Karbo : a little down ^^;.
[04:29:32 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Greetings.
[04:29:37 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Indeed.
[04:29:43 21/07/11] @ Karbo : hello.
[04:29:54 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Well now, I suppose we have much to talk about.
[04:30:04 21/07/11] * Darkstorm Zero enters mentor mode.
[04:30:14 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : wait.
[04:30:16 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Before we begin.
[04:30:17 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : I have one request.
[04:30:21 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : To you Karbo.
[04:30:35 21/07/11] @ Karbo : yes ?.
[04:30:38 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : And that is when we talk, that you actually listen..
[04:30:46 21/07/11] * Darkstorm Zero raises eyebrow.
[04:30:54 21/07/11] @ Karbo : I'm here for that.
[04:31:14 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : True, but you could have said it with some more civility. .
[04:31:36 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : I'm mainly here to listen as well..
[04:31:49 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Ok then, I suppose the first question is simply this: Why have you resorted to this most drastic step?.
[04:33:02 21/07/11] @ Karbo : because I see no end to this. and this is something I find more and more difficult to cope with.
[04:33:17 21/07/11] @ Karbo : it has been on my mind for a while now.
[04:33:41 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : I mean, I can understand frustration, and perhaps fear in part of the decision, but then I have known you a while now, and your not one to resort to such drastic measures, especially since those who have supposedly caused the "Crisis" are now gone.
[04:33:50 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Besides, you could have asked for aid.
[04:34:03 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : You didn't need to carry the load alone.
[04:34:10 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Indeed, you have a community who would fall over themselves to help you.
[04:34:58 21/07/11] @ Karbo : it's not a question of people causing crisis or not.... It's more the fact it happened in the past, it happened recently and it will always happen in the future.
[04:35:08 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : if you had asked me, I would have taken the adminship of the forums to help deal with the politics of running a forum, leaving you with the issues of creative control.
[04:35:36 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Of course it will, that what happens with followings, and will continue to do so wether you take this step or not.
[04:35:37 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : "always".
[04:35:42 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : No.
[04:35:44 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : It will not.
[04:35:45 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : I don't think you need to see Cliff and I leaving the forums as the end of all things Karbo. In your reply on the thread you made, you said that Felarya is *not* a community Project. I think in both our hearts that's what Cliff and I were interested in and had fun with..
[04:35:57 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : The real question is how you difuse and deal with them each time it comes up.
[04:36:22 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Ah. Hello guys..
[04:36:29 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Hi ereic.
[04:36:31 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : karbo.
[04:36:37 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : And like I said, I and many others where and still are willing to help you.
[04:36:38 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : You are the leader so you can make the decisions on how things go..
[04:36:38 21/07/11] Gabriel115 : ..
[04:36:44 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : I'll be frank, since you've said you appreciate people being Frank.
[04:36:46 21/07/11] @ Karbo : there is so many things... i just don't see how to deal with it anymore and it weight too much on my mind.
[04:37:10 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Then I officially offer you my hand to help.
[04:37:17 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Karbo, you once said to me that you were used to the workload.
[04:37:20 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : As do I.
[04:37:30 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : And I.
[04:37:35 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : You need to learn to trust again, to talk to your community.
[04:37:55 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : and most importantly, to hear and listen to them.
[04:37:56 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Hm. Looking at it from a fan perspective, I don't want Karbo to be troubled. I want him to release incredible mangas and art..
[04:37:56 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Indeed, talk to people..
[04:38:08 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Nobody will give you a command here.
[04:38:30 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : But there is nothing wroong with at least listening to advice.
[04:38:41 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Hello Cliff.
[04:38:41 21/07/11] @ Karbo : when I made that statement about the community project and I got rather hostile responses as a result it made me realize the miunderstanding are running to deep and too long.
[04:38:57 21/07/11] rcs619 : Seriously. Fuck all of you that made this what it is. Jeatte, Aisu, Darkstorm. it was supposed to be ONE nobody in the community stepping away from ONE website. Not this bullshit.
[04:39:02 21/07/11] rcs619 : Way to go.
[04:39:05 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Cliff. No.
[04:39:06 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Stop that.
[04:39:16 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Cliff, goddamnit.
[04:39:16 21/07/11] rcs619 : Also, Karbo. good to know trying to talk with me, and make up is SO bad that killing the setting is a better option.
[04:39:25 21/07/11] rcs619 : makes me feel fan-fucking-tastic.
[04:39:29 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Misunderstandings... Misscommunication.
[04:39:37 21/07/11] rcs619 : I loved this setting. Now I gotta deal with being the one ended it.
[04:39:37 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : ^.
[04:39:43 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : And you now see where such things will lead.
[04:39:47 21/07/11] rcs619 : Screw all you guys..
[04:39:52 21/07/11] @ Karbo : ok don't bring that here, that's not the moment.
[04:40:02 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Karbo.
[04:40:16 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : You say that this drama will happen again and again.
[04:40:19 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Disreguard cliff for the moment.
[04:40:27 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Indeed.
[04:40:31 21/07/11] @ Karbo : well yeah.
[04:40:36 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Would it be possible to have Karbo step away from the management portion of this?.
[04:41:02 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : if Karbo is willing...... I will do the administration of the forums....
[04:41:05 21/07/11] @ Karbo : what do you have in mind ?.
[04:41:37 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Obviously Karbo will always have the final say on creative ideas. he always has..
[04:41:42 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : My experience tells me I can do the political and administrative dealings of the forum at least.
[04:41:53 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : As I was saying, you say this drama will happen againa nd again. It doesn't ahve to. Why? because you don't ahve to do the same thing as in the past. You have a choice. In the past, once the initial crisis died down, everyone just tried to ignore it. But it was still there. Nobody dealt with it..
[04:42:01 21/07/11] Silent_eric : But someone else can be the mediator on the forum..
[04:42:16 21/07/11] Gabriel115 : ..
[04:42:26 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Karbo shouldn't have to deal with all this kind of stuff..
[04:42:27 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : I don't want crative control over Canon, but as far as conflict resolution, well, 15 years in Debating VS forums is part of what i've done.
[04:42:28 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Indeed.
[04:42:57 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Karbo should be able to read creative ideas and judge them.
[04:43:01 21/07/11] Silent_eric : That should be fun.
[04:43:07 21/07/11] Silent_eric : However.
[04:43:08 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : I don't mind being the one Mods and other Admins come to for aide in conflict resolution, despite me not posting often.
[04:43:18 21/07/11] Silent_eric : No one on the community should be judge of fanfiction.
[04:43:41 21/07/11] Silent_eric : There is lots of fan fiction. A lot of it will be bad. No one has to POLICe it..
[04:43:54 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : It would be too big a job anyway.
[04:43:58 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Indeed.
[04:44:08 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : People started realising that.
[04:44:15 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : That will leave politics and policing the community (at least in the Forums) to me, or whomever Karbo chooses, leaving him with doing his reviews and canon control.
[04:44:25 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : Only police what you can manage otheriwise your efforts will soon turn to tyranny.
[04:44:33 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Good ideas can be untilized. If they are posting them here in the forum, that should mean they accept the terms..
[04:44:43 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : wiser words never was spoken Cauldron.
[04:44:46 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : THe old mentality of a tight commuity where people would watch and help each other is/has been fading..
[04:45:30 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : That was something that has been a while in fading.
[04:45:33 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : But karbo, that decision remains yours.
[04:45:45 21/07/11] @ Karbo : this is true.
[04:45:45 21/07/11] Sean Okotami : Don't know if people had something to say to me to come, seeing the thread, but oh well..
[04:45:49 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Point is, Karbo shouldn't have to deal with BS like what happens here. It's happened before. It'll happen again. Karbo is creative control, not our nanny..
[04:46:12 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : ^.
[04:46:27 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : If you want to accept my help, then please, let me know when your ready, and that goes for everyone, You need only to ask for help and I'm sure you would be obliged.
[04:46:32 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : There are people in the community who would make good moderators and administrators.
[04:47:12 21/07/11] @ Karbo : maybe this is something we could try....
[04:47:29 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : AJ is right, you don't have to bear the responsability, nor the guilt, alone.
[04:47:45 21/07/11] Sean Okotami : I certainly wouldn't be a mod. Too volatile..
[04:48:06 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : We all had a role to play... And we all may yet have a role to play in rebuilding what once was the happy fun place called felarya.
[04:48:10 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Indeed.
[04:48:17 21/07/11] Vaderaz : ..
[04:48:23 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Karbo, forgive my bluntness, but you are not one of them. This is not conjecture. I have spent much of my real world life around artists. Although I can't say I know how they think, since everybody thinks differently, I can say that they are similarities in behaviour..
[04:48:57 21/07/11] @ Karbo : lol.
[04:49:02 21/07/11] @ Karbo : I know that ^^.
[04:49:19 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : And you've knwon me (Sort of) since 2003.
[04:49:22 21/07/11] @ Karbo : I simply don't like leading people or telling them what to do.
[04:49:26 21/07/11] Silent_eric : I'd like to take up the mantle. I think I'm good with people. I don't want such responsiblility, but I would rather shoulder some of the weight rather than have Karbo collapse under the weight..
[04:49:43 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : One thing must be made clear.
[04:49:50 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : No one person should take it all on.
[04:49:53 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : I'm like that guy who appears spontaneously spouting sage-like wisdom, before the currents of the cosmos carry me away again... .
[04:49:53 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : I think we all would Eric.
[04:50:05 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : Afterall we're a community.
[04:50:10 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : ..
[04:50:26 21/07/11] Silent_eric : No offense Karbo, your work is awesome, but it comes out too slow. I need the community to get my Felarya fix..
[04:50:34 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : lol.
[04:50:37 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Ha ha ha.
[04:50:40 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Lol.
[04:50:40 21/07/11] @ Karbo : haha.
[04:50:43 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Just got this image of Eric.
[04:51:07 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : franticly tappinga t a keyboard, mumbling about his fix.
[04:51:23 21/07/11] Silent_eric : You can keep your sage wisdom DZ. I've got humor..
[04:51:23 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Eric is like that old hermit who lives in a cave beneath the Giant tree... Unlike me, he never goes away.
[04:51:28 21/07/11] @ Karbo : ^^.
[04:51:32 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : He just hides.
[04:51:32 21/07/11] Sean Okotami : I don't get the joke..
[04:51:34 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Playing LOL.
[04:51:51 21/07/11] Vaderaz : hahaha ^^.
[04:52:05 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : You too vaderaz.
[04:52:10 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : I know what you do in your spare time..
[04:52:11 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Humor is as good as wisdom in some cases, just ask the old perv Roshi.
[04:52:39 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : Who? .
[04:52:59 21/07/11] Vaderaz : sure AJ :p.
[04:52:59 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : I think this is the best first step. Any other problems can be solved much easier after this..
[04:53:00 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Ah, this discussion brings warm feelings to my heart.
[04:53:05 21/07/11] Silent_eric : It has been halted right?.
[04:53:34 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : It brings hope that things can be resolved the right way.
[04:53:56 21/07/11] @ Karbo : yes, maybe we can try something like that....
[04:53:58 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Indeed..
[04:54:08 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Talk to the community.
[04:54:23 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : And I think that was what was truly lacking, hope and the desire to resolve the issues correctly.
[04:54:32 21/07/11] Vaderaz : good to hear it's going in a positive way, fiu.
[04:54:35 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Yeah.
[04:54:41 21/07/11] Silent_eric : And if you don't want to, rely on proxies to talk for you..
[04:55:21 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : As I said to you in 2009, and reinterated back in Febuary and March, my ear and door is always open.
[04:55:24 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : I'd say the reverse applies.
[04:55:29 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Allow people to be your mouthpiece when the shit hits the fan., if you'll pardon the expression..
[04:55:32 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : I mean.
[04:56:23 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : And, as much as some dont like it, I am unbiased when it comes to doing and saying what I beleive to be right, even to you, and all that means is I'm not afraid to talk to you reguarding issues should I need to..
[04:57:07 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : I beleive part of the problem was that some where afraid to try and open dialogue with you, which resulted in part of the lack of communication.
[04:57:12 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Many people want to talk to you Karbo. But you can not talk to everyone. So, what if all those people could talk to someone else who could then bring their questions to you. They could organise them for you so you wouldn't have to deal with the massive overload of messages that I assume you get..
[04:57:48 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Like the Letter did... I admit, that turned out to be a massive bomb on your door....
[04:57:53 21/07/11] @ Karbo : yeah... to be frank it has gotten very hard to manage lately T_T.
[04:58:04 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : So a secretary?.
[04:58:07 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Well, We can aide with that too.
[04:58:17 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : .
[04:58:18 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Pretty much Cauldron.
[04:58:34 21/07/11] Vaderaz : yes, somehow ^^.
[04:58:35 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : I don't think anyone here is sexy enough to be a secretary for Felarya..
[04:58:38 21/07/11] @ Karbo : with my new job.
[04:58:45 21/07/11] Vaderaz : huhu.
[04:58:49 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : lol.
[04:58:56 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : oh Vivian!.
[04:59:07 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : hahaha.
[04:59:17 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Uh wait... too easily distracted by leisurely persuits.
[04:59:20 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Vivian? Really?.
[04:59:24 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Yeah.
[04:59:32 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Come on. Menyssan would be best secretary..
[04:59:38 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Just imagine it..
[04:59:39 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Yeah. You have to keep the outfit on....
[04:59:46 21/07/11] Silent_eric : The glasses. the horns..
[04:59:51 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Mmm... I think she'd waste too much company resources.....
[04:59:53 21/07/11] @ Karbo : ^^.
[04:59:58 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Heh, she'd eat most of the apointees.
[05:00:02 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : I can imagine her making up appointments for people. With her stomach.
[05:00:08 21/07/11] Silent_eric : The drawer filled with souls..
[05:00:24 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Yeah, snacking at work sort of looks unprofessional..
[05:00:25 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Like a sweets jar....
[05:00:27 21/07/11] Silent_eric : I'd assume she'd be normal size in relation to the office..
[05:00:32 21/07/11] @ Karbo : but yeah, maybe stepping back a bit is the right solution after all.
[05:00:36 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Felarya would have a big office..
[05:00:59 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Just a bit, but no need to disengage entirely.
[05:01:01 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : yeah.
[05:01:04 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : So big i'd have trees.
[05:01:06 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : lol.
[05:01:08 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : ^it'd.
[05:01:15 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Just take your time, and enjoy it as you once did.
[05:01:19 21/07/11] Silent_eric : I'd honestly prefer you stepping back to you pushing us away..
[05:01:21 21/07/11] Sean Okotami : So stepping back as in take a break?.
[05:01:22 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Ha ha ha.
[05:01:24 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : (5:00am, typos everywhere).
[05:01:41 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : And yeah, what eric said.
[05:01:43 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Same, usaussies are like that....
[05:01:57 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : As you can see.... >_>.
[05:02:05 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Welcome Kiki.
[05:02:05 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Aussies don't sleep?.
[05:02:10 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : Wait I'm lost now....
[05:02:12 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : You're vampires?.
[05:02:15 21/07/11] Silent_eric : They can't..
[05:02:19 21/07/11] Vaderaz : apparentely.
[05:02:42 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Cn't sleep, dridder sized spiders everywhere..
[05:02:43 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Oh, I want to... I gotta put in my tax orms today at 3pm....
[05:02:44 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : I'm not aware of that stereotype....
[05:02:54 21/07/11] kikijonson : hello.
[05:03:00 21/07/11] @ Karbo : not really take a break, more letting thing go and being a bit more passive.
[05:03:01 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Oh sheit.
[05:03:04 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Greetings.
[05:03:05 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : Heya.
[05:03:17 21/07/11] @ Karbo : hello.
[05:03:20 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Karbo. Just focus on your job, and your art. come in here and read the ideas we come up with when you want to. It should be fun..
[05:03:25 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Indeed, take it easy.
[05:03:33 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : Well, I need to gpo; pub quiz is awaiting.
[05:03:39 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : *go.
[05:03:41 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Later mate.
[05:03:47 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : later guys.
[05:03:52 21/07/11] CauldronBorn24 : and gal.
[05:03:57 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : And getting involved with discussions as a member may prove to be good for your equilibirium too.
[05:04:00 21/07/11] Silent_eric : We need the next tome man. What's gonna happen to that poor harpy?.
[05:04:01 21/07/11] Sean Okotami : Well, regardless what happens, I'm still going to continue writing, cause I like it..
[05:04:02 21/07/11] Vaderaz : cya later.
[05:04:09 21/07/11] @ Karbo : cya.
[05:04:21 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Man Eric, you do have a problem. : |.
[05:04:23 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : oh my... My first big word of the day....
[05:04:24 21/07/11] kikijonson : is anything good coming from this chat going on...may I ask?.
[05:04:36 21/07/11] @ Karbo : yeah.
[05:04:46 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : \o/.
[05:04:53 21/07/11] kikijonson : ok I am just asking.
[05:04:56 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Much.
[05:04:59 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : .
[05:05:01 21/07/11] Silent_eric : If you're getting distracted by our shenanigans, who knows when such things will be released?.
[05:05:10 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : This is what I've wanted to happen with the letter. People getting together and talking this stuff out.
[05:05:11 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : \o?.
[05:05:13 21/07/11] kikijonson : as long as no one is trying to kill each other then I am fine.
[05:05:37 21/07/11] @ Karbo : the tome 5 is going to be really quite interesting ^^.
[05:05:42 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : yeah.
[05:05:47 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : I'm excisted.
[05:05:53 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : I'm sure everyone else is.
[05:06:01 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Oh, well, yes, but that's a separate matter. It's Felarya. Someone's always trying to kill someone.....
[05:06:02 21/07/11] Vaderaz : yea, can't wait for it .
[05:06:05 21/07/11] kikijonson : Oh...I actually have money to buy it.
[05:06:07 21/07/11] @ Karbo : many things happening and some revelations about Vivian too !.
[05:06:15 21/07/11] Sean Okotami : Not me, cause I don't have money to buy any of the tomes..
[05:06:16 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : !.
[05:06:16 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Hmm, well, I'll leave it to Karbo to decide wether or not to give it a go, and hopefully, someday, we can all make peace with Cliff.
[05:06:21 21/07/11] kikijonson : let me guess.
[05:06:28 21/07/11] kikijonson : Anko and Vivian are sisters.
[05:06:32 21/07/11] Silent_eric : As for Cliff. What he said. Empathize. If I was cited a reason for ruining the fun for everyone, iit's easy to get upset about that..
[05:06:40 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Vivian revelations!.
[05:06:40 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Hmm, It seems people are still taking the announcement at face value tho.
[05:06:43 21/07/11] Silent_eric : What?.
[05:06:59 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : it's not the end of the world.
[05:07:00 21/07/11] @ Karbo : yes I'm going to delete it.
[05:07:03 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Welcome Arch Vile.
[05:07:11 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : *Nods*.
[05:07:15 21/07/11] Silent_eric : She's getting character development?.
[05:07:23 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Yes. I think Cliff needs some room for awhile..
[05:07:30 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Impossible!.
[05:07:35 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : He does.
[05:07:45 21/07/11] kikijonson : I wanted to ask you before Karbo but you never replied....
[05:07:51 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : He's being angry to cover up that this is upsetting him quite a bit..
[05:07:54 21/07/11] kikijonson : I was wondering if I could use Vivan in the game.
[05:07:58 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Well, I would like to take this opportunity to thank karbo for listening to his followers here, Karbo, you made a brave decision.
[05:08:00 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : I ahve found in my experience with cliff that once he is away from whatever made him angry, he calms down. That was the problem, he couldn't get away from it here..
[05:08:01 21/07/11] kikijonson : Vivian*.
[05:08:07 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Surely it won't be anything deep. Maybe we'll find out her cup size or if she has a birthmark somewhere naughty..
[05:08:19 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Heh.
[05:08:20 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : .
[05:08:24 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Lol.
[05:08:36 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : Birthmark somehwhere.
[05:08:39 21/07/11] kikijonson : Vivians childhood.
[05:08:40 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : I like Vivian as a character. Yes, I'm weird. But I think her mystery belies potential..
[05:08:46 21/07/11] @ Karbo : oh yes of course Kiki !.
[05:08:46 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Vivian has been a mystery for a long time. Even a glimpse into her past or anything would be amazing.
[05:08:47 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Yeah. I'm glad our words and feelings reached you Karbo..
[05:08:49 21/07/11] kikijonson : she turns out to be a timelord.
[05:08:54 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Vivian's boobs are magically enhanced!.
[05:08:58 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : hahaha.
[05:09:01 21/07/11] Sean Okotami : Still, I think you and Cliff should talk a bit and try to clear up all the animosity..
[05:09:09 21/07/11] kikijonson : ok...and how about Melany.
[05:09:11 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Yes, but maybe not now..
[05:09:14 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Let it rest for a little while though.
[05:09:22 21/07/11] TheArchvile : Well, this conversation is much more lighthearted then the one I was expecting... lol.
[05:09:25 21/07/11] kikijonson : also known as MELaNOS.
[05:09:25 21/07/11] Silent_eric : I've always liked the pun implied by her name..
[05:09:33 21/07/11] Prof.Nekko : hi peoples.
[05:09:38 21/07/11] Silent_eric : was that intentional Karbo?.
[05:09:52 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : We have averted disaster here today ladies and gerbils!, somebody save this chatlog.
[05:09:52 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Vivian = Vivacious..
[05:09:59 21/07/11] @ Karbo : no XP.
[05:10:00 21/07/11] Vaderaz : ein? I dont get it.
[05:10:14 21/07/11] Silent_eric : That's an english pun so i don't think it would translate..
[05:10:19 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Ha ha ha.
[05:10:25 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Wat?.
[05:10:27 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Ah..
[05:10:38 21/07/11] Vaderaz : uh uh >.<.
[05:10:39 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Hm. I don't think the thread should be deleted by the way..
[05:10:41 21/07/11] kikijonson : I am confused now.
[05:10:41 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : I thought you were referring to Melany and I didn't get it and felt dumb. : |.
[05:10:52 21/07/11] kikijonson : oh.
[05:10:54 21/07/11] TheArchvile : Glad to hear everyone's in a good mood, i take it Karbo has been sufficiently cheered up?.
[05:10:57 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Lock it and make one final post showing how it was resolved.
[05:11:02 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Possible better..
[05:11:14 21/07/11] kikijonson : MELaNOS is from a comic I drew about Melany being GLaDOS.
[05:11:17 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : I'll post the chatlog up.
[05:11:25 21/07/11] @ Karbo : ah too late.
[05:11:31 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Oh noes!.
[05:11:32 21/07/11] Darkstorm Zero : That way it can be recorded how we avoided disaster.
[05:11:34 21/07/11] Silent_eric : Well drat..
[05:11:34 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : Ah well..
[05:11:40 21/07/11] Silent_eric : no big deal.
[05:11:41 21/07/11] Jætte_Troll : We can make another thread with a more cheerful name.
[05:11:45 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : Indeed.
[05:11:48 21/07/11] TheArchvile : I think it's ok... it'll save a few heartattacks....
[05:11:53 21/07/11] Silent_eric : It had a very dramatic title.
[05:11:56 21/07/11] Anime-Junkie : heh.
[05:12:04 21/07/11] kikijonson : well "Future of Felarya" dosent have to be a "uncheerfull" name.
It is with great cheer and releif that we have avoided this potential disaster, and I personally want to thank all involved in this proccess, and a Special thanks to Karbo, for listening and hearing us in what appeared to be our darkest hour.
Last edited by Darkstorm Zero on Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | Anime-Junkie Loremaster
Posts : 2690 Join date : 2007-12-16 Age : 31 Location : The Country of Kangaroos and Criminal Scum
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:22 pm | |
| This was a triumph.
This is something I wished to achieve with the letter. It's taken this long, but it seems we're finally seeing the dawn of a resolution. | |
| | | Prof.Nekko Seasoned adventurer
Posts : 156 Join date : 2009-01-30
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:30 pm | |
| - Anime-Junkie wrote:
- This was a triumph.
I'm making a note here, HUGE SUCCESS | |
| | | Shady Knight Lord of the Elements
Posts : 4580 Join date : 2008-01-20 Age : 34
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:39 pm | |
| I would make a big cheesy speech, but I want to break the obvious joke. Hopefully we get better communication with the creator from this point on. | |
| | | Darkstorm Zero Moderator
Posts : 727 Join date : 2008-02-06 Age : 43 Location : The road to Hell
| Subject: Addendum Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:38 pm | |
| I would also like to invite Cliff AKA rcs619 and ZionAtriedes to return to the forums so we can finally sort out the last few peices of this conflict, when they are ready. I firmly beleive nobody should walk away on a sad or bad note, and that we can sort this mess out together. | |
| | | Karbo Evil admin
Posts : 3812 Join date : 2007-12-08
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:52 pm | |
| indeed this is a much happier ending ^^ That decision was just so heavy of consequences it was breaking my heart... However on that thread there was two very important things that still very much remain. The first is that I just can't go on like this any longer. It's a simple constatation from me. Managing the forum , DA, the community, my drawings, the manga, and my job all in the same time is proving to become simply an impossible task. So yeah, like I said I will take a step back from the forum from now on. I'll name several more moderators and give the mods more extended privileges than they have now and I'll intervene more rarely in confrontations, letting the mods regulate them as they see fit. The second is that Felarya is *not* a community project... Some weeks ago when I made that statement on a thread in the forum, I received some hostile responses that honestly dismayed me because it made me realize that, with time, many have come to see it naturally as such... It's a view that will always clash with mine and probably the one thing on which I simply won't make any compromise.. To me Felarya was, is, and always will be not a community project, but a project open to the community. The difference may sound small but it is not ^^; I want to make this clear for everybody who contribute.. Anyway hopefully this will make the forum a much lighter and enjoyable place from now. And Silent-Eric was right with his intervention in the thread : it's all about having fun | |
| | | ZionAtriedes Loremaster
Posts : 2010 Join date : 2008-01-13 Age : 32 Location : Behind you. No, above! Oh, too late, I already got you. NINJA SKILLZ!
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:56 pm | |
| - Darkstorm Zero wrote:
- I would also like to invite Cliff AKA rcs619 and ZionAtriedes to return to the forums so we can finally sort out the last few peices of this conflict, when they are ready.
I had already been considering this. While I cannot speak for Cliff, he and I are on good terms, and I will try to talk with him. I have served as a voice of reason to him in the past, just as he has for me. I do not blame him for his anger. Slings and arrows were cast upon both sides, and some were wounded worse than others. Cliff certainly took his share, and more, and it is no easy task to recover from that without some bitterness. Karbo, I have already asked that you rebuild the bridge with Cliff, and while I was somewhat disheartened by your answer, I will ask once again. Sure, he's not perfect, but who is? This drama isn't the fault of any single person. It's an amalgamation of various problems that have simply been gathering for far too long without any resolution. However, calling this a "final resolution" is irresponsibly premature. A great triumph it may be, with notes made and satisfaction hard to overstate, but we have not addressed the roots of it all. As I have said, I believe one such root to be a discrepancy between the mindsets of the forum and dA. Many people are caught in-between, while others are firmly within one or the other. My own suggestion is that we do try to make critique a little softer in some cases, especially with newcomers, while also making it clear that critique is not a bad thing at all. Also, if anyone still has anything to say, my thread is made specifically for portraying your own unique viewpoint and allowing everyone else some insight. It's a pity that I had to work today, and thus went to bed before this conversation happened. I would like to say that I was one of the people that firmly viewed Felarya as a community project. I still do. While it would take an idiot of the highest caliber to not acknowledge Karbo as the obvious leader of said project, much of the universe owes its existence to community members. I find it unfair not to give them the respect that such efforts warrant. I will admit that if I had come back from work to find that the shutdown decree had not been overturned, I would not have taken it very well, as I would have seen it as a massive smack in the face to everyone who had tried to help. I am very glad it did not come to that. It is always good to discuss things reasonably. Speaking of this, however, another major root of our dilemma is how respect is given around here. People like Cliff and JT find it insulting that they're held at the same level as any newcomer from dA that writes about Bleach and Naruto characters in their stories. They have a genuine interest in aiding the setting's growth and development, have made conscious efforts to improve their writing and art for this goal, and yet... are spurned when some upstart begins pointing uneducated claims of unfairness in their direction. | |
| | | Feadraug Temple scourge
Posts : 649 Join date : 2007-12-09 Age : 40 Location : The Forest of Whispers, along with Kyria and Seelvee
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:03 pm | |
| I wouldn't call this a final resolution either, but at least it looks a better step than previous ones... I hope this time I'm not wrong.
Also, I'd like to apologize for being a bit too emotional the other day in the other forum. I know I have already excused myself, but I need to repeat myself to make it clear. xD And remember that I'll be there if you actually need me for help. Ask nicely first, though. ;P
And remember: be helpful and respectful. That's my moto. | |
| | | Sehoolighan Survivor
Posts : 872 Join date : 2010-05-21 Location : Somewhere along a Way
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:08 pm | |
| Either way, tis good to see that de temporary down-time is over (hopefully) and that we all get along again. A community in shambles leaves many alone. | |
| | | Krisexy26 Survivor
Posts : 775 Join date : 2010-01-17 Age : 40 Location : Where the river narrows
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:04 pm | |
| - ZionAtriedes wrote:
- Speaking of this, however, another major root of our dilemma is how respect is given around here. People like Cliff and JT find it insulting that they're held at the same level as any newcomer from dA that writes about Bleach and Naruto characters in their stories. They have a genuine interest in aiding the setting's growth and development, have made conscious efforts to improve their writing and art for this goal, and yet... are spurned when some upstart begins pointing uneducated claims of unfairness in their direction.
I disagree a bit with this statement. It's like...a vote. It's not because you are older that you can vote twice. Even if he's a newcomer, it doesn't mean he does not have to be unheard at all. And just another example: I'm older than cliff, but I arrived after him. Of course, he knows the setting better than me, but still, we are people behind those silly nicknames. And zion, it's not everyone on da that writes about bleach and naruto Also ehm...in this little conversation (btw, I'm talking as a complete outsider of this conversation, though I'd loved to be there...) I saw a bit of ehm...profiteers. Like...it's not mean and all, but something that got my eyes from this convo is darkstorm zero saying something like "you can give me the modship". Now now now, don't start yelling, I see the good intention, but since I'm not naive, I also see the bad side of this comment. to karbo: you want to bring more mods and all, that's alright. Make sure though that it's not only those who were there in ventrilo that are being named moderators. Like...:/ you know what I mean ( fais juss faire en sorte que ça soit pas ceux qui était là dans ventrilo qui soit moderateurs, va en chercher ailleurs aussi, du monde qui le mérite.) also, I'm very happy that this has been solved, but keep in mind that it's not everything that has been solved. some members still dislikes each others. | |
| | | ZionAtriedes Loremaster
Posts : 2010 Join date : 2008-01-13 Age : 32 Location : Behind you. No, above! Oh, too late, I already got you. NINJA SKILLZ!
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:21 pm | |
| - Krisexy26 wrote:
- I disagree a bit with this statement. It's like...a vote. It's not because you are older that you can vote twice.
It's not about age or time of forum-joining. It's about contribution. I have forum-seniority over the majority of people here (including both Cliff and JT), and yet, I would not presume to have done as much as they have. I'm not asking for an oligarchy... merely a little consideration given for merit. - Krisexy26 wrote:
- And zion, it's not everyone on da that writes about bleach and naruto
Oh, of course not. There are a lot of good authors on dA. However, most of them are there to showcase their own works, receive comments, do commissions, etcetera. They aren't part of the dA culture, the culture of doing RPs in every comment box and profile to beef up views and comment counts, the culture of brazen praise for anything and everything, the culture of viewing all critique as malicious and hostile. Simply put, the majority of good authors and artists do not use dA as a primary social-networking site. Perhaps I am biased, but people who fit into that category tend to be the ones I see as causing a lot of problems. | |
| | | Darkstorm Zero Moderator
Posts : 727 Join date : 2008-02-06 Age : 43 Location : The road to Hell
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:41 pm | |
| - Quote :
- However, calling this a "final resolution" is irresponsibly premature.
Well, make of that what you will. I called it a resolution of the situation which was rapidly escalating to what appeared a total forum shutdown. We did narrowly avoid a worst case scenario, and for that I for one am glad. My own words rang close to true yesterday, we very nearly did have a MUGEN style meltdown. I pray it never comes that close again. - Krisexy26 wrote:
- Also ehm...in this little conversation (btw, I'm talking as a complete outsider of this conversation, though I'd loved to be there...) I saw a bit of ehm...profiteers. Like...it's not mean and all, but something that got my eyes from this convo is darkstorm zero saying something like "you can give me the modship". Now now now, don't start yelling, I see the good intention, but since I'm not naive, I also see the bad side of this comment.
Beleive me when I say this, I would rather not. I have enough responsability of my own to deal with. However, I offered my aid to Karbo, whom I have known since 2003, in the interests of helping him and this community, and I have no desire for power and control here and never did. The only reason I did so is because of my experience in moderating and adminship of forums much larger and more complex than this one, which require in many ways much tighter reigns to keep under control. Now, personally, I do not want that here. I'm quite happy to remain a member that is free of that kind of responsability. However, as Karbo stated, he also wants to feel free again, to not carry the burden alone, and I offered to shoulder some of that weight, nothing more. You and anyone else can read into that what you will, but I will rebuff any suggestion that I have selfish motives hidden in my words. I don't want power and control. All I want right now is to do my best to save this community, and I beleive my experience would be good to use for that. I also do not mind the idea of stepping aside should I be called to do so.
Last edited by Darkstorm Zero on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | Silent_eric Moderator
Posts : 585 Join date : 2008-02-18 Age : 33 Location : Location Location
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:25 pm | |
| - Krisexy26 wrote:
- I disagree a bit with this statement. It's like...a vote. It's not because you are older that you can vote twice. Even if he's a newcomer, it doesn't mean he does not have to be unheard at all.
Oh man that makes sense. Everyone is equal so don't give preferential treatment. Just because they are from DA or a forum veteran doesn't mean they should get treated any differently. - Krisexy26 wrote:
- to karbo: you want to bring more mods and all, that's alright. Make sure though that it's not only those who were there in ventrilo that are being named moderators. Like...:/ you know what I mean
Wait what? So we should discriminate? Don't get all vent members why? Shouldn't we not treat anyone differently based on where they choose to come from or spend time at? Rather than trying to choose who or who not to pick shouldn't Karbo just pick who he trusts to do a good job regardless of whether they are DA or Vent or whatever? Knight them with the Felaryan Sword of Moderation. Felaryan Sword of Moderation A magical relic found in the Ur-Sagol ruins. This sword now resides in Negav, where Magiocrats use it in ceremonies to publicly anoint others to position of power. It is said to hold great power, and a Magiocrat will have it on their hip whenever a person is banished from Negav, usually a death sentence to the unlucky offender. | |
| | | TheArchvile Seasoned adventurer
Posts : 142 Join date : 2011-05-11 Location : Where you'd least expect me...
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:26 pm | |
| I think, myself being from Quebec, that Krisexy didn't quite mean it that way Eric. Something got lost in translation... And Krisexy, I really don't see this as some sort of power game, Darkstorm really is one of the best candidates we have right now, just because he knows it too doesn't mean he's coveting the position. Yeah it might seem convenient, but I believe him when he says he'd rather not. Being a mod isn't supposed to be a reward... It's a job, a responsibility. I tend to question just how good of a moderator someone can be if they perceive being a mod as some sort of privileged position. It's more of an honor than anything else, you can be happy about being promoted, since in a way it's a sign of trust, but that's as far as it should go... I'm glad this has been somewhat figured out with everyone's best interests in mind, especially Karbo. It does look like this is the best solution possible for now, at the very least it is an excellent first step towards a more stable community, and a happier, less sleep deprived Karbo... The only problem I see is that relatively few members around here would make good mods... Mostly because of activity levels, though. | |
| | | Silent_eric Moderator
Posts : 585 Join date : 2008-02-18 Age : 33 Location : Location Location
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:47 pm | |
| - TheArchvile wrote:
- I think, myself being from Quebec, that Krisexy didn't quite mean it that way Eric. Something got lost in translation...
Ha ha ha ha. I was making a joke really. I go on the vent so maybe I got defensive? I dunno. I understand what she meant, and she has good points, but I like poking holes in things that are worded in contradictory ways. Besides, it was an excuse to put down that almost fourth wall breaking sword of moderation. Ha ha. | |
| | | Anime-Junkie Loremaster
Posts : 2690 Join date : 2007-12-16 Age : 31 Location : The Country of Kangaroos and Criminal Scum
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:00 pm | |
| - Silent_eric wrote:
- Ha ha ha ha. I was making a joke really
Half of a joke is tone. That's how people tell you're making a joke. Unfortunately, telling a joke with text is more difficult, as nobody hear hear the tone of voice, because it isn't there. So unless the joke is something obviously humours, like pik elephants, people won't know it's a joke. This is why Ventrilo is better for jokes and everything that should be spoken in a certain tone really. | |
| | | ZionAtriedes Loremaster
Posts : 2010 Join date : 2008-01-13 Age : 32 Location : Behind you. No, above! Oh, too late, I already got you. NINJA SKILLZ!
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:07 pm | |
| - Silent_eric wrote:
- I like poking holes in things that are worded in contradictory ways.
You'd make a good Ace Attorney. - Anime-Junkie wrote:
- This is why Ventrilo is better for jokes and everything that should be spoken in a certain tone really.
HOLD IT! (Still running with the AA joke.) You wouldn't be... blatantly advertising, would you? | |
| | | Karbo Evil admin
Posts : 3812 Join date : 2007-12-08
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:18 am | |
| - ZionAtriedes wrote:
- A great triumph it may be, with notes made and satisfaction hard to overstate, but we have not addressed the roots of it all. As I have said, I believe one such root to be a discrepancy between the mindsets of the forum and dA.
Honestly, It seems to me you are generalizing a lot here and are painting an exaggerate picture of this. And it seems our opinions will always be at odd because, like I said in the "talking time" thread, I don't want to see members sorted by their "usefulness" to the community. I simply don't see things like that at all and I don't want Felarya to end up being this kind of place. Felarya is to me a place where, first and foremost, everyone is entitled to have fun. And I don't see not respecting the cannon as some sort of grave offense. To me, being rude and ruthless is a much more serious one. The wiki is a tool, it's not an absolute iron rule that everyone must follow for fear of grave consequences. Again, Felarya is not meant to be THAT serious. - ZionAtriedes wrote:
- I would like to say that I was one of the people that firmly viewed Felarya as a community project. I still do
Well that's another impasse. As I stated in that now deleted thread, another root of many tensions in my mind, is that, after having contributed a lot to the world, some people want more than just credits on a wiki page, and think they are entitled to decide on its direction and to where it is headed and push for it. That's something I can understand and me I might just want the same if I was a prolific contributor imagining ideas for another's universe. However that's something I am always going to resist and oppose. And it's not a question of mis-respect or something, it's simply a line drawn in the sand for me since the start. Keeping 100% free creative rein and being answerable to nobody is the sine qua non condition for me to continue to work on this world. It's the term of the deal so to speak. and really, nothing is going to ever change that. I suppose we can agree we are disagreeing... - TheArchvile wrote:
Being a mod isn't supposed to be a reward... It's a job, a responsibility. I tend to question just how good of a moderator someone can be if they perceive being a mod as some sort of privileged position. It's more of an honor than anything else, you can be happy about being promoted, since in a way it's a sign of trust, but that's as far as it should go...
Yes definitely. Being a mod is actually not such a desirable position. It's work, it's not a very grateful one, it can be taxing emotionally and it comes with responsabilities and a duty of being neutral. It's probably a lot less fun than many people believe ^^; | |
| | | Darkstorm Zero Moderator
Posts : 727 Join date : 2008-02-06 Age : 43 Location : The road to Hell
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:42 am | |
| - Karbo wrote:
- Honestly, It seems to me you are generalizing a lot here and are painting an exaggerate picture of this. And it seems our opinions will always be at odd because, like I said in the "talking time" thread, I don't want to see members sorted by their "usefulness" to the community. I simply don't see things like that at all and I don't want Felarya to end up being this kind of place.
Felarya is to me a place where, first and foremost, everyone is entitled to have fun. And I don't see not respecting the cannon as some sort of grave offense. To me, being rude and ruthless is a much more serious one. The wiki is a tool, it's not an absolute iron rule that everyone must follow for fear of grave consequences. Again, Felarya is not meant to be THAT serious. See, this I can understand, there is a difference bitween fanworks, and canon material. For the most part, when people want to use the felarya Setting, they should be under no illusions as to wether or not it would be made official by Karbo, and should not seek such from him. Deciding which outside content that should be made canon is at the sole discretion of Karbo and no other, nor should he feel pressured one way or the other about choosing as such. He will ask the creative member who made the peice wether or not the material they created could go in the Wiki, and make sure they read the disclaimer, after that, it should clear as day, and no harm done. The Wiki is not something really to aspire to anyway, it's simply their as an information service, and those who seek to utilise non-canon material for further projects can do a little research here on the forum and DA. It's not hard... The other part of it is simply this, people should not be judged based on postcounts, time in the community, contributions or any other label. People can judge for themselves another person based on their own interactions with them. If a newbie hs questions, then yes, the ones with more experience here can indeed attempt to aid them. This is where the mutual respect comes in, and why I asked the question in the talking time thread. Mutual Respect is a 2 way street. Both the new poster and the experienced one must show some digree of mutual respect. there's no need for older/experienced members to manhandle a new person, and likewise, the new person should not fly of the handle should they not get the response they crave to their question. That said, there is nothing wrong with seeking a 2nd oppinion, and new members should be encouraged to seek multiple points of view should the need arise. - Karbo wrote:
- Well that's another impasse. As I stated in that now deleted thread, another root of many tensions in my mind, is that, after having contributed a lot to the world, some people want more than just credits on a wiki page, and think they are entitled to decide on its direction and to where it is headed and push for it.
That's something I can understand and me I might just want the same if I was a prolific contributor imagining ideas for another's universe. However that's something I am always going to resist and oppose. And it's not a question of mis-respect or something, it's simply a line drawn in the sand for me since the start. Keeping 100% free creative rein and being answerable to nobody is the sine qua non condition for me to continue to work on this world. It's the term of the deal so to speak. and really, nothing is going to ever change that. I suppose we can agree we are disagreeing... In the end, the decision of direction is still yours reguardless of opposition Karbs, nobody can take that away from you, and anyone who tries should not be welcomed. That said, as I said in the chat, there is nothing wrong with asking for advice or listening to the members before finalising such decisions either. You either take the information on board or not. When you get stuck for an idea, you come here or DA to look for fresh ideas and perspectives, and conversely, if your dead set on something, wel then thats your choice isn't it? I don;t think Zion suggested that the community would take creative direction from you, I think all he really wants, and the same could be said for almost anyone, is that you hear them out before making drastic choices, as to wether or not you choose to take any of those oppinions on-board however, is still up to you. - Karbo wrote:
- Yes definitely. Being a mod is actually not such a desirable position. It's work, it's not a very grateful one, it can be taxing emotionally and it comes with responsabilities and a duty of being neutral. It's probably a lot less fun than many people believe ^^;
it's not fun, and it's not supposed to be fun... A Moderators job, and indeed an Admins job, is to make things run smoothly and efficiently, making sure everyone is following the rules, and cleaning up messes when they occur, moving, closing or deleting threads. reminding troublemakers of the rules when prudent, that sort of thing. An Admin's job is even harder, as it is up to them wether or not to swing banhammers, create and maintain new forums as needed, making sure the upkeep of the site is maintained and all that jazz. No, it's a thankles task most of the time, and the fact that the staff volunteer to do this makes the sacrifice of their time, and sanity in some cases, all the more harrowing. I still remember both my first Modship, and Adminship... They where not plesanrt until I got some experience at it. | |
| | | Anime-Junkie Loremaster
Posts : 2690 Join date : 2007-12-16 Age : 31 Location : The Country of Kangaroos and Criminal Scum
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:17 am | |
| Just a note on Felarya not being a community project and all that. No one has really explained what they mean. Karbo, you've implied that in a community project you would have to answer to other people in reguards to the creative parts of Felarya. I'm not sure you would. My own definition of "community project" doesn't include that. But it might include that to other people. It's obvious that it does to you. In order to prevent confusion and to facilitate better communication you should define exactly what you mean by Felarya being a project open to the community, not a community project.
That aside; I have a suggestion. I'm not sure if it's good but it might help some things or it might not. My suggestion is that characters are not to be included in the Felarya wiki. This prevents people aspiring to get their characters in there. Characters are already a unique case in the Wiki. Permission can be denied for the use of characters. They're not disclaimed like other things are.
As I see it, people view getting a character in the wiki as some sort of validation. I don't think it should be like that. | |
| | | Pendragon Grand Mecha Enthusiast
Posts : 3229 Join date : 2007-12-09
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:40 am | |
| It's good to see everything getting all fixed. I was frankly worried about what was going to happen to the community. So a few more experienced mods are gonna take the forum workload off of Karbo's back? It sounds like a plan I can work with. - Karbo wrote:
Yes definitely. Being a mod is actually not such a desirable position. It's work, it's not a very grateful one, it can be taxing emotionally and it comes with responsabilities and a duty of being neutral. It's probably a lot less fun than many people believe ^^;
I can attest to this Karbo. Back when I was offered a position as a mod, I couldn't in all honesty accept it because of how biased I can be sometimes, not to mention my anger issues. | |
| | | Feadraug Temple scourge
Posts : 649 Join date : 2007-12-09 Age : 40 Location : The Forest of Whispers, along with Kyria and Seelvee
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:50 am | |
| Don't think of me as a mod. As it has been stated before, being a moderator isn't a reward, but a position of high responsibility. I don't feel like I could have the guts to be a mod, mainly because I already know what it is and my big mistakes made in other forums. Didn't like the experience despite being a forum veteran. Sorry. - Anime-Junkie wrote:
- Just a note on Felarya not being a community project and all that.
No one has really explained what they mean. Karbo, you've implied that in a community project you would have to answer to other people in reguards to the creative parts of Felarya. I'm not sure you would. My own definition of "community project" doesn't include that. But it might include that to other people. It's obvious that it does to you. In order to prevent confusion and to facilitate better communication you should define exactly what you mean by Felarya being a project open to the community, not a community project. I have to agree with this a bit, as Karbo has already said "a project open to the community" and "a community project" aren't the same, but some people will think they are. So Karbo, could you elaborate a bit on what is your definition for both things, please? It would be helpful for some of us who have some doubts about it to clear everything and not make wrong steps because we didn't get things well. - Anime-Junkie wrote:
- That aside; I have a suggestion. I'm not sure if it's good but it might help some things or it might not.
My suggestion is that characters are not to be included in the Felarya wiki. This prevents people aspiring to get their characters in there. Characters are already a unique case in the Wiki. Permission can be denied for the use of characters. They're not disclaimed like other things are.
As I see it, people view getting a character in the wiki as some sort of validation. I don't think it should be like that. I've never seen it like that either. I like to create interesting characters and the fact they aren't in the wiki doesn't make them less interesting or less worth our time. I guess many people should learn that, but still don't get it if explained. Although I don't know if removing the current characters would be the right thing to do. Just leaving those created by Karbo? Or just mentioning some examples of characters? I don't know... Need to think of it. | |
| | | Karbo Evil admin
Posts : 3812 Join date : 2007-12-08
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:51 am | |
| - Feadraug wrote:
I have to agree with this a bit, as Karbo has already said "a project open to the community" and "a community project" aren't the same, but some people will think they are. So Karbo, could you elaborate a bit on what is your definition for both things, please? It would be helpful for some of us who have some doubts about it to clear everything and not make wrong steps because we didn't get things well.
Ok well on my personal experience of those, in a community project, members have their say on which direction the general project go and decisions are taken by majority vote. You have a hierarchy that establish itself with posts given to some contributor who will handle different aspects of the project and ultimately, this is a collective, structured effort where every participant owe the whole project. But to me, Felarya is something personal that was then opened to the community with the creation of this forum, so everyone could add their ideas and participate in the universe. However, its general direction remain entirely mine to decide and I'm not answerable to anybody regarding what end up being used or not and what I create for it. In a sense I'm on the driver seat and members don't decide on the route ahead. That's the big difference... I'm aware this can be frustrating for some, as they essentially have to play by another's rules. but again it's something that must be really clear once and for all. - Anime-Junkie wrote:
- That aside; I have a suggestion. I'm not sure if it's good but it might help some things or it might not.
My suggestion is that characters are not to be included in the Felarya wiki. This prevents people aspiring to get their characters in there. Characters are already a unique case in the Wiki. Permission can be denied for the use of characters. They're not disclaimed like other things are.
well this is very... drastic. I'm not really sure it is feasible at all to be honest, or that it wouldn't create more problems in the end ^^; I can see the merit of the idea though, as it would remove a good deal of the jealousy some people can feel.. but I'm afraid that would also make the world less rich and lively as a result, the connexion between characters being harder to keep track of.. | |
| | | Feadraug Temple scourge
Posts : 649 Join date : 2007-12-09 Age : 40 Location : The Forest of Whispers, along with Kyria and Seelvee
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:15 am | |
| Thanks for the explanation, Karbs. I had an idea in my mind and it's a bit like what you described. Anyways, I always had it clear that you had the last word in many things, so nothing to worry from me in that matter. And I think that if you make it clear for some people this point like you've done right now, the jealousy would go down. Can't be 100% sure, but it's worth trying. | |
| | | Prof.Nekko Seasoned adventurer
Posts : 156 Join date : 2009-01-30
| Subject: Re: The conflict, final resolution Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:07 pm | |
| - Karbo wrote:
- I don't see not respecting the cannon as some sort of grave offense.
Now I wanna get my 2 cents chimed in on this point here. While I do agree with you that it's ok for the canon to be smudged a bit (that's how Felarya is improved after all) I do feel that at least some respect for the canon be viewed. Think of Felarya as a wide road, with the middle of the road being canon. It's ok to not walk down the middle, just to the side of the road, but if you start driving off the road, bad things happen. If no one respected the canon, the hard work that was put into the wiki will be moot and rather then a tool it becomes that exercise machine in a 400 pound man's house, aka totally unused. Case in point if the canon just gets completely disregarded we will soon find stories that mar the eyes of all who read it. Tales of the Daughter of Crisis and Subeta who can kick any guardian's ass with a twitch of her wrist and fires nuclear missiles from her Labia... in short a place of anarchy and insanity, much like the 1960s. | |
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