A Wizard Did It

That's kind of supposed to be avoided in Felarya, isn't it? In my experience, that phrase has meant a lazy effort to try and write off why we cant explain something, or just because its too difficult or tedious. I could go into talking about how newcomers should avoid that, but that's unnecessary and not the point of this thread...

Long story short, I've been reading over the wiki a lot recently, and every time I see that the translation spell I get increasingly annoyed...It just vexes me. I know people don't seem to have an issue with saying a wizard did it for this aspect of felarya just out of the sake of extreme convenience, but I think in a sense that makes me even more annoyed. It's just built up a bit too much now.

Fortunately I have kinda-sorta made a chronology of events that could explain to an easier extent why people can understand each other. The already canonized events are in bold.


Age of Elves

5458 B.U - Due to the increase of power the Elven Empire secretly devises a plan to make communication with fairies easier

5456 B.U. – Empress Eteni signs the “Secret Treaty” with the Fairy kingdom. The exact details are unknown, but the Elven Empire does not expand into fairylands and fairies do not hunt in elven lands.

5454 B.U - After long deliberations with the Fairies after the 'Secret Treaty' Fairies and Elves establish the 'Diplomatic Speak' to make diplomacy between Fairies and Elves easier.

5450 B.U - Fairies start teaching the Diplomatic Speak to Dryads

5240 B.U - Humans Learn Diplomatic Speak

4200 B.U - Nekos Learn Diplomatic Speak

4130 B.U - Dridders learn the Diplomatic Speak by association, but very rarely, and by the individual. Harpies pick up on it as well, by involvement with Dryads over the centuries.

4098 B.U. – Elves defeat the Naga tribes near the Giant tree. The remaining nagas are made part of the Empire, though they remain in the wilder places between Provincial centers. Elves suffered many casualties in the confrontation, and many at home grow unhappy, thinking that elves have lost their way and should keep among themselves, and simply use their army to protect elves, rather than intervene in the affairs of others races.

4093 B.U - After a few years, some of the nagas come around, and willingly learn the Diplomatic Speak. Only a few Nagas retain the language at this point.

2005 B.U. – After a whole year of preparation, Almikar Potentis and several other mages cast an extremely powerful and self-sustaining translation spell over the continent, allowing sentient beings to perfectly understand each others' languages. It lasts to this day and show no sign of fading.

The Rise of Negav

780 A.U - The Nagas rapidly learn the Diplomatic Speak

795 A.U - Dridders start learning the Diplomatic Speak by association at a quicker pace.


-As you can see, all but two of the events happen before the bold text, which is already canonized in the chronology page. I think what I put down further reinforces this. I would suggest replacing that one event with these little ones that mark the development of a common language, but that's not my decision. It makes sense though, and works because it all starts when the Elves make the Secret Treaty with Fairies.

So lemme hear what you all have to say. Unfortunately I'll be going somewhere tomorrow and wont get back until much later...

I don't really see the issue. Yes, a wizard DID do it, but it's explained thoroughly and not just tossed in there without logic or explanation.

Bael, this is a concept that exist in every single work of fiction that deal with multiple species and races. You are being annoyed over nothing. The universal translator from Star Trek is just as much A Wizard Did It as the spell in Felarya. Even I haven't gotten worked up over something that's so irrelevant.

Well I guess that's where my fault lies then. It still annoys me though.

Aye, keep in mind that offworlders wouldn't know this "Diplomatic language" so if it were used in place of the translation spell, every story where a recent immigrant speaks with a native would suddenly make no sense :B

Not to mention, back then they could have used a regular translation spell, where the user understands what someone else and can speak in its own language, but then someone had the idea of cutting the middle man and unleash a God-Tier translation spell for your convenience. It's not worth digging into this because at the end of the day, we're just explaining Aliens Speaking English, when this is endemic to speculative fiction.

I do not see what annoys you, bagel

It's better than a simple "well they just speak the same language and thats it!"

Felayra is a magic world, magic is the solution.

Quote :

Long story short, I've been reading over the wiki a lot recently, and every time I see that the translation spell I get increasingly annoyed...It just vexes me. I know people don't seem to have an issue with saying a wizard did it for this aspect of felarya just out of the sake of extreme convenience, but I think in a sense that makes me even more annoyed. It's just built up a bit too much now.

I've been against that interpretation of the translation effect from the start. I just can't see how a couple wizards could cast such a ubiquitous and far-reaching spell.

Personally, I don't think the translation effect needs a concrete explanation. Same with how we don't need an intricate, in-depth explanation of how giants can exist, how harpies can fly and so on. Felarya is a weird realm where the laws of physics and the universe do not work the same way as in our own (and half the time are mixed and mashed with the forces of magic). I always thought the translation effect should have just been another unexplainable mystery, like whatever the source of the healing factor's power is. Just something that is a part of Felarya that no scientific or magical mind can adequately explain.

Another mystery that not even Felarya's oldest residents, or even the Guardians themselves, can explain.

I think this is very helpfull personaly. A nice detailed time line explains the translation spell well but I do kinda wonder why it bothers you that it's not realy fleshed out. Some of the part of real life history aren't even well explained aren't they? My history ain't all that good, but I'm pretty sure there's alot of it that's kinda iffy.

It bothers me because the translation spell is far more rediculous. At least in star trek its technology based.

People who don't know any french, spanish, or japanese can move to those countries and within a short time frame pick up and learn the language, and even become fluent. It happens all the time, its less of a big deal than you think. I mean learning to understand all our OWN languages here on earth started from study. Besides, there could be a foreign embassy of sorts that could have a documentation of people's languages - those people from worlds felarya hasn't seen visitors yet.

Besides, the translation spell doesn't work in the foreign worlds that Felarya has contact and does trade with. The spell doesn't reach there, yet they have to go there all the time. Having the translation spell opens up far more holes than you think.

Archmage_Bael wrote:

It bothers me because the translation spell is far more rediculous. At least in star trek its technology based.

The technology doesn't make much sense, though. Due to the inherent differences between language (different sayings, a vast range of culturally untranslatable figures of speech, the fact that languages evolve to express different world views...) it's inherently impossible to [i]perfectly[i] translate someone's meaning into another language (without rephrasing it in a way that partly denatures the original, and which will inevitably lead to occasional misunderstandings). Not to mention ambiguities. There are words or phrases which can carry several meanings, and context is not always enough for an "automatic" translator to pick the right one. Not to mention deliberate ambiguities (and plays on words) which the translator would be unable to convey. Etc...

I usually prefer to see things explained, but universal translation is impossible, and therefore inexplicable. For Felarya, it's probably best not to worry about it too much.

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For Felarya, it's probably best not to worry about it too much.

Ya know what Socrate said, once?

Something like "It's much more intelligent to admit that you don't know rather than believing in the first solution proposed."

Ya, I know, major syntax flaws But i do hope ya get the message: sometimes, we just gotta admit we do not know. If we continue arguing on the whats and hows, itll bring us to far more complicated questions, like "How Felarya was created?"

I prefer not to worry about the whole "universal translation" stuff. Sure, you can say "there's this spell that makes other people's languages a but more understandable", but for me, it's just the common thing in sci-fi and fantasy. And I don't give it a second thought.

We don't need to overthink this. Maybe there shouldn't be an explanation for the "universal translation" here? Maybe, or maybe not. As I said, I don't bother about this, I don't give it that of a big thought and I will never take it in consideration for my stories or so.

Archmage_Bael wrote:

Besides, the translation spell doesn't work in the foreign worlds that Felarya has contact and does trade with. The spell doesn't reach there, yet they have to go there all the time. Having the translation spell opens up far more holes than you think.

I actually have been thinking about this. Did you consider that all trade is perhaps done through Negavian official middlemen? And that maybe these middlemen have access to wizards that can perform smaller scale translation spells? Because it's not impossible to take a few babil fish wizards with you incase you need translators in another dimension/planet.

Well if you're going to have a wizard do any kind of spell that's felarya-wide and everlasting, it should be a guardian <.<

Though I still think having a common-tongue would be a bit more believable.

Bael, don't worry about it. It is not relevant to any story, it is merely a handwave as to why everyone can understand each other, and isn't trying to make itself look more than a paper-thin excuse. At the end of the day, it won't affect anything, so just let it go and live with it.

I'm with Sean in this. It's thinking on a subject that has no impact on the rest of the lore or even on stories, after all. Can it be annoying? For some, sure it can, but I don't give it more than a thought or two before saying 'bah' and going back to what actually matters.

This topic keeps popping up often, doesn't it?

I just don't see the big deal either. To be honest it could just easily be a myth within Felaryan history, something everyone has an idea about what it could be but no one knowing for sure

Hm, well the problem with small scale translation spells is you must be a wizard or have a wizard with you for it to work, if the mage in your adventuring party died, then you'd be out of luck.

Also, this isn't a handwave, the point of a handwave is because you don't exactly know how to fix the problem, and this isn't a handwave because I integrated the process smoothly with canon as it is, and its more practical, believable, and explainable (that last one's the most important I think) to canon. It doesn't change people's stories either, since it's a subtle change that effects the description and why people can understand each other.

Small scale translation spells can be used by that group in Negav that welcomes newcomers to Felarya and tries to integrate them into Negavian society.

This is less about the annoyance of "A Wizard did it" and more about explaining something we have not been able to do since Felarya's beginning. ^^

Um... you just confirmed that the spell is a handwave: it's there because there's not really any logical way to explain the whole alien speaking english.

Now just quit making a big deal out of such a minor detail already. This thread shouldn't even exist, let alone be more than one page.

You're entirely missing the point of my last post, Sean.

And you're certainly not getting the concept of the translation. Everyone else agrees that it's useless to try to analyze it, so quit while you're ahead. I've stated my point that it doesn't even matter and that it's just a part of any fictitious universe. If you want to keep rambling on about it, go right ahead, but you're not gonna accomplish anything worthwhile.

Sean, since you're not listening to me, I'm not inclined to respond.

I spoke to some of you guys on vent last night about it, and it seems when I addressed the problem by itself (without saying I was annoyed with the handwave) there were some nodding heads.