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Karbo
McKindle
Darkstorm Zero
rcs619
aethernavale
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Archmage_Bael
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Amaroq
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rcs619
Felarya cartographer
Felarya cartographer



Posts : 1589
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Age : 36

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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 26, 2012 10:26 am

Quote :
@ Karbo
Did you even bother to read my posts properly? No, you didnt read it at all, just like I dont expect you to properly read this post either. I already said that nudity and such things would be forbidden because of those forum rules. -.- If you are soooo afraid if this then tell the people to post links only, but they still may have their threads and comments here.

But oohhh nooo, because some person you like more than me says something which I already mentioned would be a RULE, no risk to avoid, but you still agree with him and not with me. But that's to be expected from you I guess. Always sticking to your "elite" members and treating the rest of the community like shit. -.-# For real, 3 years ago the tone in this forum was different. You cared for the people and liked Ideas. But now I feel like there are few people "at the top" while the rest is being tolerated - but not welcome.

Amaroq going into "I'm being persecuted" mode as soon as anyone disagrees with him or doesn't answer him in exactly the way he wants. I hoped this wouldn't happen, but I can't say that I am suprised.

It just goes to show how little you know about Karbo. He's been in fights with friends before (lol, including me come to think of it) because he felt THEY were being elitist, or not tolerant enough. Karbo's pretty much the main person behind the "Felarya is open to everyone regardless of their abilities" movement. He's about as non-elitist as you can get.

Quote :
And RCs' point is plain stupid: Just because there's a DA community from which I get NO f***ing feedback at all, he doesnt want to see an art area here. But ohhh its fine if there's any way to say something against me, you people always do!

Reply to my post by calling it "stupid" and claiming I am persecuting you. Nice going.

Look, the fact is that Deviant Art gets more traffic than this site. The group also puts new submissions onto people's watch lists as soon as they are submitted. It is more appropriate a venue for trying to get artistic critique than this forum, especially since there seems to be issues with actually posting art up on here. Not to mention, pretty much everyone on here is on DA and watches the Felarya group. Forum members are going to see your art if you submit it there.

Also, NO ONE gets feedback from the DA community. That's just how DA is it. It is 70% full of leeches and lurkers. You will get one or two good comments here and there. Sadly, that's about the norm. Maybe the reason you don't get more comments is because you do not take differing opinions well? That could be an issue too.

I just think that the Felarya group on DA makes any kind of art forum somewhat redundant.

Quote :
@ RCS: Yes, I am talking about you, one of the probably 4 people on this damn forum who I have NEVER seen to agree with me on ANY topic! It's just ridiculous how you try to talk against me in every discussion the two of us show up. This is nothing about opinions anymore, for real. I have seen people like that in other forums as well, to them its a hobby to "disagree" and see how they can influence the community against a certain person or see an idea wrecked. I believe that you are one of those people, at least when it comes to me, because you are still feeling mad about me because I insultet you back then which you would have never heard of if there wasn't another person copying the chat and sending it all to you.

Yep, you caught me. I have totally modeled my entire forum-going experience to try and destroy you. My evil nefarious plan is foiled and you are just as important as you think you are.

Seriously, man. We just have differing viewpoints. I don't have anything personal against you, I just don't seem to ever agree with you. You trying to make this some kind of personal duel is just another ridiculous attempt to make yourself seem like some kind of oppressed, persecuted victim. Because people can't just disagree with you, can they? They've got to be evil, and out to destroy you for some arbitrary reason.

Grow up.
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timing2
Moderator
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timing2


Posts : 226
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Location : Running from a predator

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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 26, 2012 11:42 am

I would kindly remind everyone to direction their attention to the discussion at hand and not at each other.

There's no need for much of the back-and-forth I'm seeing now.
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walkingbyself
Great warrior
Great warrior
walkingbyself


Posts : 453
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 35
Location : United States

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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 26, 2012 11:59 am

I think it is a good idea. He said that there would be no pornographic pictures. And those that could be taken as pornographic would need to be censured. If not added at all.

I can see why no one wants to risk upsetting forumotion's 'Tos' and yeah it would be bad if the forum got kicked for a few simple pictures. Yes, DA is a good place for pictures and is by far more lenient then forumotion, at least that is the picture I am getting from everyone else that's posted before me. But DA is also filled with people that simply click> view> fap> move on. Giving no helpful advice at all, I know again already previously covered. However, on here I see much more useful critique then I do on DA. It may just be me not looking hard enough on DA, but I just don't get much time to read everything between DA and here. Between the two I prefer here. As there is more focus on critiquing and helping to improve here on the forum then on DA.

Sorry if I'm only adding to the problem. But I am of the opinion that this is a good idea.
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Nyaha
Eternal Optimist
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Nyaha


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Location : Canada. ^.^ Goooooo Snow!

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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 26, 2012 12:24 pm

So even if the subthread had a rule stating no nude pictures, and it was moderated under that rule so that all nude pictures that did find their way to the subforum would be deleted, we still run a higher risk of having the entire forum deleted despite our self-imposed rule?
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TheLightLost
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TheLightLost


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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 26, 2012 12:30 pm

Let me start by saying that I'm not against the creation of a clean art sub-forum. I disagree with the thinking that artists are going to find more/greater critiques here than in an artists' community such as DA, a much larger community at that. The same people that will offer you feedback here will give you feedback THERE, and the same people that won't give you feedback there will continue not giving you feedback HERE. Am I misunderstanding something? O.o
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Archmage_Bael
Mara's snack
Archmage_Bael


Posts : 4158
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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 26, 2012 1:58 pm

Okay I'm not even going to bother reading both pages.

@gt500x at the end of page 1: I didn't find amaroq's original post confrontational (sorry I just felt like I had to say something) but that's probably because I just didn't interpret it that way

now for the main bit.

Unfortunately Amaroq, I have to agree here with aether. I do think an art portion to this forum would be great, but the risks far far outweigh the benefits.

Even disregarding the space issue, nudity is showing the genitals and private parts of people. You could make the arguement that these creatures are not human, and therefore not subjected to the same rules, but they still have human parts. Pornography in this case IS nudity. Within the context of forumotion its easy to read. DeviantART not so much because they're a website to promote art, but in the case of a forum that doesn't focus on art, they wont bother with the distinction. It would be in their mind to say that any kind of porn, nudity, or depiction of genitals and other private parts in any way would be considered in violation to their terms of service.

There are kids who aren't 18 who pop in here, and they're not supposed to be exposed to this kind of thing anyway. If I may say this, though, linking to sites with pictures may still be considered a violation due to being considered a second party, and often second party hosts are regarded as just as much fault as the original site.

Right now there are just way too many lines we are skirting, and all we need now is for some stuck up employee to interpret it wrong just for the sake of filling a quota, or to believe he's doing some good by "upholding the rules". I believe we've met those kinds of people many times in our lives?

Sorry, as much as I support the idea, I think it's a horribly unsafe idea.
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parameciumkid
Hero
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parameciumkid


Posts : 1201
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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 26, 2012 2:40 pm

Solution: leave forumotion, get a new host. Heresy? Maybe. But I'm just sayin'.
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Prof.Nekko
Seasoned adventurer
Seasoned adventurer
Prof.Nekko


Posts : 156
Join date : 2009-01-30

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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 26, 2012 4:39 pm

parameciumkid wrote:
Solution: leave forumotion, get a new host. Heresy? Maybe. But I'm just sayin'.

Not as easy as you think kiddo. Changing a forum host is a lot of painstakingly hard work, from what I understand (don't quote me on this) changing a forum host will wipe out all posts and members on the list, so yeah a ton of ideas and stuff would be lost forever. Plus we would need someone to rebuild the new site since the guy who made this forum is AWOL.

As for the Art Discussion, same thoughts as Cliff, Karbo, Nyaha, gt500, and the rest of the people. The risk is far too high for some risque picture to get online and a forumotion mod sees it and drops the mighty hammer on this site.
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rcs619
Felarya cartographer
Felarya cartographer



Posts : 1589
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Age : 36

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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Mar 26, 2012 9:21 pm

Nyaha wrote:
So even if the subthread had a rule stating no nude pictures, and it was moderated under that rule so that all nude pictures that did find their way to the subforum would be deleted, we still run a higher risk of having the entire forum deleted despite our self-imposed rule?

Being forced to limit and/or censor art kind of defeats the purpose of an art sub-forum in the first place. I think so anyway.

gt500x wrote:
Let me start by saying that I'm not against the creation of a clean art sub-forum. I disagree with the thinking that artists are going to find more/greater critiques here than in an artists' community such as DA, a much larger community at that. The same people that will offer you feedback here will give you feedback THERE, and the same people that won't give you feedback there will continue not giving you feedback HERE. Am I misunderstanding something? O.o

I think gt pretty much hit it on the head.

I get Amaroq's frustration at DA for the lack of meaningful comments, but, well... that's just DA. The best way to get any kind of comments is to submit to the group. The most amount of people will see it. The people who will comment will, and the ones that won't, won't. There isn't much else you can do.
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Archmage_Bael
Mara's snack
Archmage_Bael


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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 12:53 pm

rcs619 wrote:
I get Amaroq's frustration at DA for the lack of meaningful comments, but, well... that's just DA. The best way to get any kind of comments is to submit to the group. The most amount of people will see it. The people who will comment will, and the ones that won't, won't. There isn't much else you can do.

Actually there's quite a lot of pictures that go through the group, and I doubt anyone wants to spend the time commenting on them. I myself hardly comment on pictures that go through the group, I only click on the ones I find interesting, but I'll only comment on the ones I watch. To me, the group is a good way to find people that I may think about watching, not commenting on.

So here's another question that went all but ignored in my last post:

What about being a second party host (or whatever its called) that links to nude pictures. Like I said in my previous post, a lot of places still consider second party to be at just as much fault. What does forumotion say about that?
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TheLightLost
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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 2:37 pm

I'm sorry. I'm not sure if I get what you're asking. You want to know if it's OK to post links instead of the artwork itself?

Well, I think forum motion would probably still have a long look at that but I don't think there's much in the way of grounds to take action as long as the second party host has safeguards against minors viewing material with mature content. Of course I'm just speculating though. The bottom line is, we're playing by very strict house rules here and trying to see what we can get away with is not the way to go, me thinks. ^^

Hmmm. BTW, don't we already have a thread where we can post links to our artwork?
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rcs619
Felarya cartographer
Felarya cartographer



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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 2:47 pm

gt500x wrote:
I'm sorry. I'm not sure if I get what you're asking. You want to know if it's OK to post links instead of the artwork itself?

Well, I think forum motion would probably still have a long look at that but I don't think there's much in the way of grounds to take action as long as the second party host has safeguards against minors viewing material with mature content. Of course I'm just speculating though. The bottom line is, we're playing by very strict house rules here and trying to see what we can get away with is not the way to go, me thinks. ^^

Hmmm. BTW, don't we already have a thread where we can post links to our artwork?

We have the art thread... which honestly probably skirts the rules already.

I believe amaroq's original intent was to get more critiques and comments. I believe he openly mentioned his frustration at the lack of comments he gets on DA.

To be honest, that's how it is with everyone. I mean, hell, most of the comments on Karbo's work don't actually say anything. He only actually gets real critique from a small handful of watchers or friends. A good 70% of DA is made up of leeches and lurkers. You just have to deal with that. The fact is, the Felarya group on DA gets a ton more traffic than this site, and is probably the best way to get a wide number of people to see your art. People who will comment will, those who won't, well, they won't.

I just think an art sub-forum would be kind of redundant... and apparently very inconvenient thanks to forumotion's weird rules.
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Archmage_Bael
Mara's snack
Archmage_Bael


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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 5:34 pm

I know. It is frustrating, and even in the felarya group, people STILL don't get much useful feedback. Because the group is over saturated with so much Felarya content, there's less of a desire to want to see it, I think.

Anyway, what I want to know is where forumotion stands on second-party hosting of mature content. If they don't want links to mature content (and someone needs to ask and get a clear answer if there isn't one in their rules) then we should probably abolish our art thread for the sake of not breaking the rules. Our world, Felarya can be horribly misinterpreted, and VERY easily.
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rcs619
Felarya cartographer
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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 6:43 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
I know. It is frustrating, and even in the felarya group, people STILL don't get much useful feedback. Because the group is over saturated with so much Felarya content, there's less of a desire to want to see it, I think.

Anyway, what I want to know is where forumotion stands on second-party hosting of mature content. If they don't want links to mature content (and someone needs to ask and get a clear answer if there isn't one in their rules) then we should probably abolish our art thread for the sake of not breaking the rules. Our world, Felarya can be horribly misinterpreted, and VERY easily.

Quote :
Forums that does welcome or promote warez, piracy, hacking, cracking, spamming, attacks against networks or servers, pornography, racial hatred, crimes against humanity, inappropriate activities on the servers, or any other actions which violate any applicable laws, aren't allowed. Any forum which contains texts, links, pictures, animations, videos or any other content recognized as Illegal will be deleted without notice or warning. Forumotion.com reserves the right to delete any accounts or forums considered not conform to the rules quoted here or specified in Forumotion.com or in the international website rules according to the international internet law. Any Illegal content or act and will be reported to the concerned services and prosecuted.

That's the thing Aether copied into the thread. Links are mentioned.
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Archmage_Bael
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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 6:53 pm

Okay, so I got a reply from staff, and snapped a picture of their comment. This is directly from the Forum of Forums for Forumotion. Consider this a part of the T.o.S.

Spoiler:

That's right. Even a link to nude material is considered breaking the T.o.S.
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TheLightLost
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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 9:45 pm

Some of us may have to clean up our signatures and make sure they don't have links to anything that might be deemed inappropriate by the host. It sucks but it's the reality of the situation so we should just deal with it. Links to DA might be safe because of the mature content safeguards.
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Archmage_Bael
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PostSubject: Re: New Area: Art Discussion    New Area: Art Discussion  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Mar 27, 2012 10:35 pm

I dunno. Is it worth risking? It's very easy to lie on DA, saying you're old enough, or to allow mature content. Judging from the rules and terms of service, it doesn't look like these guys are very flexible. I just don't want this forum shut down, thats what my real concern is for all this of course.
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