The darker side of water mages.

A though had occurred to me while doing a little fabricating. The human body is made up of 70% water, so doesn't that mean that a suitable powerful water mage would be able to control, or at least hinder a persons movement? also if said water was suitably agitated it could start destroying cells, and if the mage was feeling creative, he might even be able to take advantage of the plasma in blood to rip it out though a suitable thin membrane, or open wound. Biological organisms might have just become a whole lot more vulnerable to a suitably twisted mage.

Theoretically speaking, yes, a mage would be able to do that. But... if you think about it for a minute, what kind of creature, except for completely artificial ones like golems, or those made of pure magic like elementals and geneies, which you don't find crawling out of the woodwork, would pose a threat to her if all she can make its body boil on a whim?

But it seems to me that the stuff that makes up "you" should be protected from being manipulated by low powered magics. Otherwise the weakest of water mages could trivially kill anyone, as could the weakest of electrical mages, as could the weakest of "earth" mages (bones are rocks, more or less). I like to imagine that a person has a "life force" that binds the components of a body together, and that also resists outside attempts to manipulate said components. This prevents low powered mages from trivially killing anyone and everyone.

It would be very possible, but also difficult. I like the Avatar: The Last Airbender method. Water bender's can control the water in a person's body, to the point where they can make that person do whatever they want, but can only do it when their power is being increased by the full moon. Your water mage would have to have something that greatly increases his/her's water magic, and if that object is removed then she can't do it.

Unlike ShadyKnight, I see no problems with a character that can wipe the floor with a giant naga or two. Provided that character is old enough to have legitimately earned such power. A good example would be an Archmage who has been working with magic for years upon years and focuses on elemental magic. I mean, it is a survival world after all, and humans are not as weak as many people here like to think they are. Especially when that human knows what they are getting into. There will be a few people who not only survive but actually get stronger, and the ones who do get stronger eventually reach a point where they can stand toe to tail with a giant naga. Though they would only be able to face off with one, maybe two if they're smart and skilled, at a time

It's plausible in theory, but you have to think about this:

Do you think someone can magically focus alll of the water in your body and bend it to his whim before getting a gun to the face? Even a flintlock pistol can blow a hole in the wizard's face before he has a chance to utilize this magic.

Like stated, only someone of a really high level could do such a thing.

Darth_Nergal wrote:

It would be very possible, but also difficult. I like the Avatar: The Last Airbender method. Water bender's can control the water in a person's body, to the point where they can make that person do whatever they want, but can only do it when their power is being increased by the full moon.

The sequel Legend of korra show with sufficient training a waterbender can do that without the aid of the full moon.

I had similar arguments with a friend about that, he gave me an explanation similar to oldman said a bout a life force which prevent that this kind of thing makes no sense when you see a mage turn people into animal or inamate objetcs, use a doll to kill people or manipulate time to make them grow older without few or no effort.

Pendragon wrote:

Do you think someone can magically focus all of the water in your body and bend it to his whim before getting a gun to the face? Even a flintlock pistol can blow a hole in the wizard's face before he has a chance to utilize this magic.

It's more a matter of reflex because magic act more instantly than progressively by example fairies instant shrink their prey unless you have a armor made with insect shell you are pawned.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

The sequel Legend of korra show with sufficient training a waterbender can do that without the aid of the full moon.

GAH!! Spoiler goddammit!! DX

Also, you guys keep saying that it would take a high-powered or highly-skilled mage as an arguement when EG already stated that in his initial post. :/ What's up with that?

Anyway, I think it's a viable concept, so long as the creator of such a powerful character is smart enough to balance them out accordingly. :33

I never said that I had a problem against it, just that if you think about it, the water archmage essentially has story-breaker power, though you really could extend that to any elemental archmage, like why can't the fire or ice one make your blood boil or freeze respectively? They could do it, but let's say that archmage is an active adventurer. Any living creature, barring ambushes, could be dealt with by pointing its finger at it, followed by ludicrous gore. Really, purposefully limiting someone's magic is really for the sake of making interesting story, even though logic dictates that thunder mage should be able to throw someone's nerve completely out of whack.

Also, gwada, you shouldn't make claim that have never been confirmed.

Shady Knight wrote:

Also, gwada, you shouldn't make claim that have never been confirmed.

What kind of claim if you refer the insect plate armor read Fulmina's bio the other claimed are based in fiction in overall not specifically about Felarya.

I meant about fairy shrinking preys instantaneously. And just to keep things on track, because I know that this will be derailed otherwise, I should mention other possibilities of story-breaker power, like the earth archmage picks up a pile of dirt, and then displace said dirt inside someone's lungs, or the wind archmage inflate someone's gastro-intestinal tract with so much air that the person burst like a balloon. There are a lot of possibilities that aren't explored because, when you think about it, there's no way for the target to defend itself against it, which simply make them less interesting. There are probably some possibilities where this could be useful, like a mage assassin using it to kill its targets, but even then, it has to have a flaw like he can't do it if the target isn't still. Otherwise that assassin borders on invincibility, with only select scenarios where his skills aren't helpful, which isn't really a weakness since these scenarios won't crop up if he chooses the right place to make his business.

Shady Knight wrote:

I meant about fairy shrinking preys instantaneously.

Shady you read enough stories (canon and good written), the official doujinshi or manga, the shrink works instantly most of the time very few describe it as a slow and progressive process but it's not the topic I end here.

To get back to the topic, we are dealing with these trope Inverse law of utility of lethality , combat pragmatist, boring but practical in order to get awesome yet practical situation.

Magic in fiction is difficult to balance we can add only a powerful or a high level mage can do it, but it doesn't look like we see high level sports competitions. We have visible sign like sweat or strong breathing. What we have is just a mage doing something without showing little or few efforts doing things impressive, the mage is conveniently labeled high skilled. The depiction of the difficulty is mostly it can be done only at the full moon, or it require some component. I remembered I have seen the western animation of Conan the barbarian when you had an episode where a powerful wizard is in reality a high skilled real life illusionist with unique magic is telekinesis but he gets quickly exhausted by lifting someone. But the problem of balance comes when you see someone making a tsunami and saying it's difficult to manipulate water inside the body of someone. The former is more impressive than the latter but it get as ridiculous as a professional weightlifter can move a little child except is particularly heavy (I know it's difficult to someone with a superhuman strenght to lift someone without crush him). It can make sense when it comes to comic situation in Slayer when you have someone who can cast only a dragon slayer and she is unable to cast the other in other end when you see how Lina was trained by her sister you understand why she is so powerful

Where I want to go if you want to give an explanation why a mage can or cannot do something justify only a labeled high skilled or powerful is not enough if the difficulty is not shown. (That's why I liked the friendly fire in Dragon Age origin when your spell can hurt your ally give a more tactical sense and mastery of your skill.)

Water, for it's life-giving and sustaining properties, has the potential to be quite terrifying as a weapon.
In my mind for example, the idea of someone who can freeze water at a distance is pretty scary. Water expands when it freezes, and if you've ever put a banana in the freezer and thawed it some hours later, you know the effects of sharp ice crystals upon cell walls and membranes.
Even if the mage can't freeze your entire body, if he can focus on something like, say, your eye, you are in serious trouble. Either you are left blind (possibly temporarily due to accelerated Felaryan healing in this universe) or the rapid expansion causes your eye to explode or crack your skull, leaving you vulnerable to whatever the sadistic bastard has planned.
Yeah, that would be... really unbalanced, and pretty damn grim.

I imagine it is possible yes, but only for a very skilled water-mage. After all it's not water in pure form. And like Oldman pointed I could imagine the body of a creature being a very though barrier to go through with elemental magic, especially quickly.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

[ when you see how Lina was trained by her sister you understand why she is so powerful

Oh ? I never seen this part. In which episode does it appears ?

Well, having a water mage myself, it's a subject I've thought about too. ^^
As living beings are sure made of a good % of water, is obvious to think that a good watermage (hydromancer) wil take advantage of it, however, it should not be that easy, since it's obvious a quite powerfull skill.

First of all, I agree with the "purity" theory; a hydromancer will have harder time controlling the water mixed with something else (like in mud or the human body itself for exemple) than the water directly coming from a river; a water mage has only control over the water from that mixture, so the rest is only adding "weight", interferences. A solution to it would be the ability to separate the components, but again, that is not really easy (I remember that someone comented that a hydromancer and geomancer would form a good team because of that, the hydromancer pulls on the water while the geomancer pulls on the "earth/soil" from a substance, so each one has his own "pure" material.)

Now the second theory i would like to mention, is magic resistance in living beings. Living beings should have somekind of natural protection agains magic, like a "negative response" to any outside magic innfluence (the body wants to stay as it is, a doesn't like outside influences, just liek it does with "material stuff" P: ). Now, changing the state of water should be way harder than simply manipullating it, so in my opinion, when an avarage hydromancer tries to manipulate someone , he will first have to overcome his oponent magic resistance (I believe that a powerful mage will know a bit better how to defend himself against others magic than a normal person, and that there exist armors or amulets giving some magic protection too); if he manages to do so, he will be able to manipulate the water in it's natural state (liquid) but would have to make another effort if he wants to change it to solid or wants to boil it.

The same way a weak fire mage will only be able to throw small fire balls , and a powerfull one will unchain gigantic piroclastic fire columns of doom ( sorry xD) , a weak water mage will simply control water in the environment, while a powerfull one will varie from changing it's states at will and even control living beings.

Pure water doesn't really exist in raw state but I see the idea behind this theory a bit like the use of gold to counter Gaara'sand in Naruto. The sand gets heavier and harder to manipulate. Personally this theory make more sense than the magic resistance one because it raises the question of how magic affect living being in overall. If you are resistant to magic it's not a selective process you are resistant to any magic in not only against his harmful effect but healing too. A healer somewhat manipulate people body, in dragon quest dai no boken there is a forbidden spell which is a healing spell called mahomoi because it destroy the cells by overload them with energy and the wound cannot be cured. It's something I want people notice.

Karbo wrote:

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

[ when you see how Lina was trained by her sister you understand why she is so powerful

Oh ? I never seen this part. In which episode does it appears ?

Sorry I did a little mistake here. I was thinking how she's scared by her sister like this scene in Slayers Try:

I think people tend to confuse pure water with more or less clear water. I do remember from classes that pure water is actually inedible, because it lacks the minerals and salt necessary for us, and it also doesn't conduct electricity, again because it lacks said salt and minerals. The theory that water is easier to manipulate if it's clear has its own flaw, mainly that swamp water would be harder to manipulate, and water contaminated with something, let's say a bit of sand, would also be a bigger strainer on the wizard.

Yea, like Ilceren said, by "pure" water, I was talking about the water that we simply ... call water when we see it (in the sea, a river,the rain, a pool, etc..); the hydromancer only controls the % of water, the rest of the component just being a "nuisance" to him;