Square-Cube Law implications you may not have considered....

Yeah yeah, beating the dead horse that'll be reincarnated as a barrel of glue yet. But work with me for a moment. Whenever this comes up, one typically thinks of how a Felaryan pred is able to support all her bulk and, well, simply MOVE. Right before trying to handwave it away as quickly as possible, that is. But the Square-Cube Law, as it pertains to biology, is not simply about movement. Believe it or not, the law actually helps EXPLAIN some things in Felarya and makes the world a bit more plausible.

How? Simple. According to the Square-Cube Law, a Felaryan pred actually has to eat, in terms of proportion, LESS than a normal-sized human. LESS! This stems from metabolism rates and oxygen consumption decreasing the bigger an animal gets, especially warm-blooded ones like mammals, birds and (so the theory goes) dinosaurs. The ridiculous volume that Felaryan predators have ensure that they have greater heat generation and retention than us yummy little humans, if their small intestines allow for adequate nutrient absorption to sustain their bulk. Many times, readers may wonder how there could simply be enough humans and nekos running around to satisfy the preds anxious to eat people. Well, if the law holds true, a pred need not eat as many as one may think. Except for Crisis because...she's Crisis.

Think of some Felarya stories. When Jora first arrived in Felarya and had yet to start eating humans, she subsisted on little (to her) fruits plucked from trees. The Square-Cube Law could explain how she got enough at first. Then there's how Kai always seems satisfied with whatever edible plants she comes across (like...a giant bouquet of roses) . Could also explain how Isham's suggestion to Milly about starting a garden so she'd eat humans less often...more or less WORKED!

But uh-oh, let's look at the opposite end of the spectrum: the tomthumbs and neeras. Proportion-wise, they'd need to eat more than humans and nekos and MUCH MORE than a pred. Their metabolism would have to be much faster, in order to offset the heat loss stemming from their low surface area-to-volume ratio. That could certainly be a downer, offsetting the advantages the tinies should have, like being able to lift several times their own weight and jumping farther and whatnot, which could be advantageous when eluding a hungry neko.

The biggest can of worms this could open, though, is how this affects humans and nekos shrunk by fairy magic. Assuming they live long enough to worry about it, would their metabolism be sped up to resist freezing to death? I would have to assume so, since humans like Isham and Remus suffered no ill effects from giant size when they were temporarily enlarged. I guess fairy magic automatically gives humans and nekos the adaptations they need to survive when made tiny or huge. Yeah, I'm betting there's some internal, anatomical changes and adaptations that allow preds to move unincumbered, coupled with Felarya's natural magic lending a hand. A fairy's typical size limit could reflect the point at which any further growth would render such adaptations inadequate, and the Square-Cube Law goes into effect.

Damn, I've been thinking about this too hard. AGAIN.

And I'll be bringing back the same answer from the dead: A wizard did it. It's impossible to address issues with the square cube law without making up pseudo science, so we don't bother. Plus, beings of massive size are a very common concept in fantasy and nobody questions those. So what makes Felarya so special that we can't just wave our hand and say that it's not real and that you shouldn't think about it?

I like this perspective. Just because we're allowed to wave our hands and say "a wizard did it" doesn't mean we always have to. When we can figure out a nice elegant explanation for something, I say we go for it!

Better say your farewells to all that time you could have spent doing something useful then, cause it's never coming back.

Seriously, Sean. You need to try and be civil. Every single post in general lately has been rude to borderline insulting to folks. There's no need for that kind of tone.

Well I can't really add something useful to the discussion as I'm pretty terrible at physics but it's nice to see the square cube law and Felarya agree on something for once XD

Though Shady knight, honestly could you please make your points without that usual hostile, snarky tone of yours ? that'd be great...

Karbo wrote:

Well I can't really add something useful to the discussion as I'm pretty terrible at physics but it's nice to see the square cube law and Felarya agree on something for once XD

Though Shady knight, honestly could you please make your points without that usual hostile, snarky tone of yours ? that'd be great...

Karbo, my friend, physics is not my forte either. I was cheated out of an A in General Physics II because my professor was a lab report Nazi. All that stemmed from a recent lecture in Comparative Anatomy, and biology is something I'm MUCH better at. I still can't imagine what evolutionary adaptations would allow Felaryan predators to achieve effortless movement though....

And Shady's comeback is no big deal. I've suffered worse online. Some asshat once thumbs-downed a bunch of my Youtube videos just because I suggested Final Fantasy 6 was overrated....

I don't know anything about physics, but will say that I value such detail discussions as long as the point is to explain a core aspect of a fantasy world and isn't a discussion to argue why the core aspect can't happen and therefore needs a radical change, removing the fantasy bit out of fantasy.

Greyman wrote:

...the advantages the tinies should have, like being able to lift several times their own weight and jumping farther and whatnot, which could be advantageous when eluding a hungry neko.

I assume you mean that Tinies would be able to jump farther (and presumably run faster) not in terms of absolute speed but in relative speed, i.e. a Tiny being capable of covering 8 body lengths per second while a human-sized creature covers 6 and a giant creature (once again, presumably) can only cover 2 body lengths.
(If you've ever seen a commercial for an RC car claiming 1,500 scale miles per hour, this is what they're basically referring to: were that car to be scaled up to full size and also have a scaled up top speed (which it shouldn't) it would travel at 1,500 miles per hour.)

Would it be fair to say that while a Giant Naga might be able to outrun humans, were she to be placed on a racetrack alongside a human and a Tiny, each on their own separate racetrack representing the same relative length, with the Tiny running 15.625 meters (1/32 the absolute distance of the human), the human running exactly 500 meters, and the Giant Naga running 16,000 meters (32 times as far as the human) (and let's assume that for point of argument the tiny is 1/32 as tall as the human and the Giant Naga is 32 times taller (or would 'longer' be the right term?) than the human, would the Tiny finish before the human, and the human before the Giant Naga? Or are we to go under the assumption that as you get bigger, your relative speed increases on a 1x1 scale, where if the human can run 15 miles per hour, the Giant Naga can pull 480 miles per hour?

Would this question be better asked on the 'Overthinking' thread?

(Sorry for mixing up metric and imperial units back there. Race lengths are given in metric, but I don't want to convert mph (which I am used to) into kph.)

I always thought that their bones were constantly breaking under the immense stress that they were put under, but the soil constantly healed them, thus making every giant suffer immense pain every moment of the day, which would cause them to seek out food which acts as painkillers for them.

Then I realized that such a theory was stupid, so I discarded it.

Shady Knight wrote:

Better say your farewells to all that time you could have spent doing something useful then, cause it's never coming back.

We did that when we first joined the forum, dude.


As for your message, Greyman... I think I had thought of that, sometime before. I apologize in advance for my choice of words, which I'm sure you'll know how to understand.

bitch please:

I think you have some interesting points, and I can make some pretty good sense out of it. I am not willing to go do a bunch of research though to try and verify what you said, but if oldman comes in and posts, here's hoping you two set off on a way to do some good with this here. So I shall summon oldman from the nether regions. >_> <_<

Let's not forget what, at least IMO, is a very likely one of the explanations for all this giant stuff not collapsing under its own weight: Felarya probably has less gravity than Earth. This is why I think people in stories, comics, etc. frequently survive long falls and why enormous plants and animals can exist with similar proportions to their Earthly analogs.

As a supporting example I cite the recent film "Avatar," in which Pandora had less gravity than Earth and consequently similarly gigantic trees and taller people were able to exist.

If felarya was a planet, it'd be for giant-scaled beings, not people our size, you have to remember that. Barring that, Felarya is still meant for giant-scaled beings, that is a simple truth, and answer to many questions.

Actually that's probably a misconception. More likely, the smaller a planet, the larger its species on account of having less gravity. Huge planets would crush human-sized lifeforms under their own weight (like a beached whale), while insects could still manage, and on a small planet like Mars where people could jump 20 feet high, humongous animals like the Giganotosaurus would be able to grow even larger without crushing their own bones.

Less gravity and something about carbon-fiber reinforced bones is how the Na'vi were explained away in Avatar....

But really, I was hoping this thread would focus on something OTHER than the whole 'How can a Felaryan pred even MOVE' angle of the Square-Cube Law. Movement of the tinies, food and oxygen requirements, that sort of thing....

parameciumkid wrote:

Actually that's probably a misconception. More likely, the smaller a planet, the larger its species on account of having less gravity. Huge planets would crush human-sized lifeforms under their own weight (like a beached whale), while insects could still manage, and on a small planet like Mars where people could jump 20 feet high, humongous animals like the Giganotosaurus would be able to grow even larger without crushing their own bones.

That's an interesting thought, and I guess it makes sense too. Less forces pushing on you means you have more room to expand.

Quote :

But uh-oh, let's look at the opposite end of the spectrum: the tomthumbs and neeras. Proportion-wise, they'd need to eat more than humans and nekos and MUCH MORE than a pred. Their metabolism would have to be much faster, in order to offset the heat loss stemming from their low surface area-to-volume ratio. That could certainly be a downer, offsetting the advantages the tinies should have, like being able to lift several times their own weight and jumping farther and whatnot, which could be advantageous when eluding a hungry neko.

What?!? We can?!?! Now to go beat up Nyaha with my super mouse strength!

*10 minutes later*


He stepped on me......

Heh, I have been toying with the idea of Tomthumb Ninjas (The Three Inch Clan, TTIC) who are capable of leaping four feet into the air like a flea and can bounce about evading capture while shooting poison darts at a target. So the Square-Cube law could make something like that somewhat plausible, just these little fellas have mastered the application of it to an art.

Shady Knight wrote:

Better say your farewells to all that time you could have spent doing something useful then, cause it's never coming back.

Time has played its cruel trick on you as well, it seems. I admire your perseverance. I hope you understood me, old one. After all, I risk sounding senile otherwise.