Hold on, I just realized something. Karbo said that there is no telephone in Negav. There is an equivalent to an hospital, if that ever gets developed, and I would assume an ambulance to transport wounded. But if there is no telephone for people to use, how do you call for an ambulance? Or the police? Or the hydromancers' guild in case of a fire? This would all require something akin to a telephone.
I once thought of a way to do this but I'd just be another magical walkie talkie.
DarkOne Survivor
Posts : 967 Join date : 2012-04-27 Age : 40 Location : Smart predators don't reveal their positions
Actually this isn't too far off on how they called for help before phones were invented, basically if there was a fire you simply run out of the house and screamed "FIRE!" and then the town will scream the news vocally down the town towards the fire station. Same thing with the police and hospitals.
Or if possible, they simply make their way to the station (or send someone else in the case of injury)
I would imagine most people perished in emergencies back in those days if you consider the slow responce...
But in a city as big as Negav, will it be able to reach on time? Assuming that the police act like a typical video game city guard where they're never too far away from their respective district, then screaming for help would work. But firefighters and doctors don't patrol the streets like city guards do, so how would you be able to alert them on time if you don't have the means to contact them from long range?
Speaking of hospitals, I should probably go back to the my early stories and rework how I portrayed the healer's guild so it doesn't feel like a modern hospital. Sigh.
jedi-explorer Felarya cartographer
Posts : 1474 Join date : 2011-12-06 Age : 36 Location : Fantasy Land ^_^
Okay this may just be a burst of inspiration, and totally the wrong thread for this format, but what if we go with something like a pillar with a button a variety of runes for various services placed around the city?
Name: Voxalisk Mini-Vox Rarity: Abundant Average Price: Voxalisk (Not for for sale to individuals) Mini-Vox (250 SK)
A Voxalisk is a type of a personal communications device developed by by a Vishmital and Negavian couple who, while out on a romantic stroll of the city, came upon a young neko who'd be mugged and was bleeding out from a stab wound. They called for help and by word of mouth a doctor managed to get there, but too late to save the neko. The Vishmital told his wife if Negav was more accepting of Technology and had personal communicators or at least public call stations like most backwaters this wouldn't have happened. Saddened, but inspired she decided to not rest till Negav did so no more would die like the poor neko boy. The fruit of her labors was the Voxalisk Prototype. Little more than pair of a five foot tall spires made of cheap metals and some small glass panels with lighted universal runes representing "Police, Fire and Medical" Once pressed the tower being used by the caller sends magical coded message to one placed in a nearby receiver in either the Police, Fire or Medical station closest to it along with a map of how to get there. It soon proved to be a useful method of summoning help and caught on. The mage was asked to produce more and soon she was in buisiness and even made a miniature version for hanging around one's neck or wrist that could be carried anywhere within Negav.
How to use: Simply touch the icon on the screen to call the service you want by pressing the icon if you're a caller in need of assistance. The mini vox is even easier and has a Vox-to-Vox option that's being tested for use as a personal communications device as well, however currently most models just feature the three icons.
Stabs Moderator
Posts : 1875 Join date : 2009-10-15 Age : 34 Location : The Coil, Miragia
Again, what I would do to get mod powers just to delete obvious joke posts that don't contribute the conversation at all, even if they come from another mod. A highly doubt flare guns in Negav, given the rarity of firearms in general, are common, let alone affordable. If you're not going to contribute to the discussion, then don't post at all.
DarkOne Survivor
Posts : 967 Join date : 2012-04-27 Age : 40 Location : Smart predators don't reveal their positions
In the case of fire, there might be a law insuring that all houses have some kind of inbuilt magical fire alert system (The magiocrats made it law because the tight housing in Negav could result in fire spreading house to house just like in 'the great fire of london, which could put most of the city at risk if a fire isn't dealt with fast enougth.)
If a house was to go up in flames, some kind of glowly magical energy path (sort of like the 'Clairvoyance' spell from Skyrim) will manivest, quickly seeking out the fire station and getting the crew's attention, they will then send out their elemental mages out to follow the path to the house where they can then deal with the fire.
Ilceren Moderator
Posts : 677 Join date : 2012-05-10 Age : 34 Location : Spain
I always thought, even before knowing Negav didn't have telephones, that the city would possess a quite developed messenger system. In a city as crowded as that, maybe having a messenger you can trust is a far better means of communication than a telephone wire anyone can attach himself to, so now that there isn't even that option, I do think messengers would be a necessary service. One of my main characters works as a messenger when he's not out adventuring, so rest assured I've given it much thought.
There would be two types of messengers, those who are appointed for a service, as in, noble X has come and wants a messenger to come to his mansion in three days to carry a sealed package, destination undisclosed. The other type would be small groups of messengers, normally young people who haven't proved their trust yet, that hang around in many areas of the city, waiting for someone to come to them with a task, or for an emergency to happen. They'd charge a price in the first case, and work for free but probably receive a tip in the second case, if they're fast enough that the emergency doesn't come out bad. Of course, freelance messengers could be around, but there should be a guild of kinds that ensures the groups can cooperate when it is needed, such as when swiftly carrying a message to the surface from the Pits, for example.
I've also been developing a few additional services they would offer. When appointed with a service, the messenger would offer a special sealing wax, free of charge, that makes the envelope completely opaque to light, and therefore can't be read with that technique of setting it against a strong light. If someone intercepts the letter, they would have to open it, and wouldn't be able to deliver it to the original destinatary without him knowing it's been read. It's a pretty basic service, but it's free, after all. There are more advanced magical waxes that turn the letter invisible or undecipherable when not opened by the destinatary, keyword seals that strengthen the envelope against tearing, etc. For a price, of course.
Sorry for my typical abrasive behavior, that's what you get when you realize something late at night and are too stupid to just wait until tomorrow afternoon when you can think straight to post about it.
Anyway, with the current suggestions, the useful ones that is, it would make sense that postal service would be the primary mean for the common folks to communicate at long distances. About Ilceren's idea of some sort of magic wax, I have my doubts about it. I could totally see something like that for nobles, but not for commoners. Even then, I think a simple Illusory Script would be much simpler and get more or less the same results than magic wax that would be both expensive and time consuming to create by comparison. If you don't know what Illusory Script is, it's a D&D spell that allows only the person (or people) to whom a message is meant to, designated at the time of casting, can read it. To everyone else, it's unreadable, and they are then subject to a suggestion spell, usually telling them to just forget that the message ever existed or something.
Anyway, regarding emergency calls, the police, provided they patrol a lot in the districts they control, could be easily alerted by running in the streets and calling for help. Actually, now that I think about it, it would make sense if the police were among those with long distance communication, and so if you need to call an ambulance or the firefighters, you'd be better off calling the police, tell them the situation, and have them contact either the Hydromancer or Healer Guild.
Stabs Moderator
Posts : 1875 Join date : 2009-10-15 Age : 34 Location : The Coil, Miragia
A highly doubt flare guns in Negav, given the rarity of firearms in general, are common, let alone affordable. If you're not going to contribute to the discussion, then don't post at all.
Just a half-jest.
Firearms are only so rare, Shady. At least one character in the wiki has a flare gun every time he leaves Negav... for trading, since they´re suicidal to use outside. One could make a point that he only has them because he knows a guy who sells them, but that isn´t necessarily the case.
Alternatively, you could figure out an equivalent to a flare gun. We both know D&D, we both read the Order of the Stick, we both know about 0th level spells, so how about Dancing Lights? You could have people trained in a 0th level spell and other people on watchtowers wielding spyglasses: as soon as the warning gets to someone who knows to warn, the warning will be detected. Unless you want precision glassware and magic to be rare in general, too.
If you want to be real magical about things, try using divination magic to anticipate and prevent fires/crimes, or, failing that, use divination to get wind of them as soon as they happen, whether anyone reports them or not through the same thing, then burst in on them right before they get to the best part. You might have to research your own spells, like "Detect Uncontrolled Fires", "Detect People In Urgent Need of Medical Attention" or "Detect Illicit Sex Act in Progress", but it is not impossible.
Afterwards, just use a shaky wooden tower or two, a spyglass (or eagle-eyed neko), a white wall and two flags, one red and one black, easily visible against the white wall. There you go! All you need are two people on each side and some cloth. That´s for a barebones, minimalistic system. Depending on how much tech or magic you will allow, you can do ten thousand times better.
I know you´re gonna find the Detect Illicit Sex Act in Progress spell unfunny. It´s intended more as proof of concept: think of something that actually merits an enforcement response to you.
Shady Knight wrote:
Again, what I would do to get mod powers just to delete obvious joke posts that don't contribute the conversation at all, even if they come from another mod.
Like "Detect Stabs Making a Joke Post", apparently. I jest a lot, Shady, hoping it encourages people to speak. We don´t need perfect ideas from the beginning, just a starting point- and the discussion is its own reward.
I'm not opposed to humor in a post, but I prefer it if the jokes and the actual answers are within the same posts. When I see a posts that obviously doesn't give an actual answer and is just joking around, usually when they're a very short sentence, I get the feeling that the person is completely dismissing the intended discussion... says the snarky asshole. Worse yet, imagine if everyone did these kind of posts. Discussions would either become horribly disjointed because of such posts barely being on topic, or worse, they wouldn't get anywhere. This is why if you have to make a joke like that, I'd rather you write it, and then write your actual answer below in the same post.
jedi-explorer Felarya cartographer
Posts : 1474 Join date : 2011-12-06 Age : 36 Location : Fantasy Land ^_^
Um what about my idea? I didn't even get rejected or told what was wrong. ^^; Is it cause I hid it in a spoiler? Or because I used Nyaha's artifact template to describe it? Simply not practical?
Stabs Moderator
Posts : 1875 Join date : 2009-10-15 Age : 34 Location : The Coil, Miragia
There doesn't seem to be a problem, but your idea is pretty much finished. "Negav has spires with huge red buttons that call the police." Then again the crux of your idea seems to be less on the mechanics and more on the people who came up with them.
Still, if you would like to think it through, that means those services are easily summoned only in the places near a voxalisk. Are there places with more voxalisks, places with none, and so on? What about the places without voxalisks, do they employ other means to summon services? What do the service providers think of voxalisks, how were they convinced to start using them? How do voxalisks deal with places like the Pit, or other places that are at a different height/depth than ground level?
jedi-explorer Felarya cartographer
Posts : 1474 Join date : 2011-12-06 Age : 36 Location : Fantasy Land ^_^
There doesn't seem to be a problem, but your idea is pretty much finished. "Negav has spires with huge red buttons that call the police." Then again the crux of your idea seems to be less on the mechanics and more on the people who came up with them.
So it's a problem cause it's completed? Should I maybe be more vague? Also why is there a crux involved with the people who invented it? I don't see that.
Stabs wrote:
Still, if you would like to think it through, that means those services are easily summoned only in the places near a voxalisk. Are there places with more voxalisks, places with none, and so on? What about the places without voxalisks, do they employ other means to summon services?
Oho I see what you're getting at now. Hmm alrighty I'll modify it using your suggestions then! Also you bring up a interesting thing. Perhaps we should imply there's a variety of serives and ways to call for help in Negav instead of settling on just one idea. I mean heck it's a big city and, as you pointed out, the Voxalisk might not be so reliable in places like The Pit or even Motamo Docks.
ravaging vixen Moderator
Posts : 504 Join date : 2010-02-07 Age : 33 Location : Rocky mountains
Subject: Re: Tech Level Musings Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:39 am
(Sorry, i've been out of the loop for awhile, been quite depressive and busy)
But from what i'm hearing, I'm going with the route that Icelren and Jedi are going, Even though negav is in a pre-industrial age, it has elements that have High science fiction, To magic operating and putting usage to devices enough to make magitech the mainstream of communication. Of course this also depends what districts are controlled and facilitated by who. (Come now, if vishmitals or anybody like them really want to rival the magiocrats, your going to have to have some sort of edge using your technological assets, or like the magiocrats, making the fundamentals of magic seem more appealing, which is why i love the concepts Icel conjured with his creative thinking.) Basically i'm saying broaden that spectrum a bit when your thinking about communication.
Stabs Moderator
Posts : 1875 Join date : 2009-10-15 Age : 34 Location : The Coil, Miragia
So it's a problem cause it's completed? Should I maybe be more vague? Also why is there a crux involved with the people who invented it? I don't see that.
No, it's just that once an idea is finished like that, all that's left is to either point out a flaw (which I don't see) or seeing if Karbo likes it (which I don't have anything to do with). So... not much to say either way.
The crux means that most of your idea was about the society part: other than that, it's just an obelisk with big red buttons.
jedi-explorer wrote:
Oho I see what you're getting at now. Hmm alrighty I'll modify it using your suggestions then! Also you bring up a interesting thing. Perhaps we should imply there's a variety of serives and ways to call for help in Negav instead of settling on just one idea. I mean heck it's a big city and, as you pointed out, the Voxalisk might not be so reliable in places like The Pit or even Motamo Docks.
No, I think it's fine as it is. Just telling you, if you really want to do more work on it, those are a few points you can consider. To me it's all about the journey, do it if it's fun to you.
jedi-explorer Felarya cartographer
Posts : 1474 Join date : 2011-12-06 Age : 36 Location : Fantasy Land ^_^
So it's a problem cause it's completed? Should I maybe be more vague? Also why is there a crux involved with the people who invented it? I don't see that.
No, it's just that once an idea is finished like that, all that's left is to either point out a flaw (which I don't see) or seeing if Karbo likes it (which I don't have anything to do with). So... not much to say either way.
The crux means that most of your idea was about the society part: other than that, it's just an obelisk with big red buttons.
jedi-explorer wrote:
Oho I see what you're getting at now. Hmm alrighty I'll modify it using your suggestions then! Also you bring up a interesting thing. Perhaps we should imply there's a variety of serives and ways to call for help in Negav instead of settling on just one idea. I mean heck it's a big city and, as you pointed out, the Voxalisk might not be so reliable in places like The Pit or even Motamo Docks.
No, I think it's fine as it is. Just telling you, if you really want to do more work on it, those are a few points you can consider. To me it's all about the journey, do it if it's fun to you.
Well I did kinda do more work on it using your suggestions. ^^; Be shame not to post it:
Voxalisk:
Name: Voxalisk and Mini-Vox Rarity: Abundant Average Price: Voxalisk (Not for for sale to individuals) Mini-Vox (250 SK)
A Voxalisk is a type of a personal communications device developed by by a Vishmital and Negavian couple who, while out on a romantic stroll of the city, came upon a young neko who'd be mugged and was bleeding out from a stab wound. They called for help and by word of mouth a doctor managed to get there, but too late to save the neko. The Vishmital told his wife if Negav was more accepting of Technology and had perosnal comunicators or at least public call stations like most backwaters this wouldn't have happened. Saddened, but inspired she decided to not rest till Negav did so no more would die like the poor neko boy. The fruit of her labors was the Voxalisk Prototype. Little more than pair of a five foot tall spires made of cheap metals and some small glass panels with lighted universal runes representing "Police, Fire and Medical" Once pressed the tower being used by the caller sends magical coded message to one placed in a nearby receiver in either the Police, Fire or Medical station closest to it along with a map of how to get there.
It should be noted the Voxalisk is considered a relative sucess by it's creators but some humanoids do not feel the same. For example the position of the Motamo Docks makes the number of Voxalisks about two and they are usually suffering from rust due to being near water or tipped over into the river by trouble making youth's and thus are costly for the Negav City Coucil to replace or recover. The spires don't fair too well in The Pit either. Becuase of the high amount of violent offenders many officers feign glitches when they hear a call from some of the surviving Voxalisks in the Pit or Skyless City. Theyaslo require a fair amount more of mantaince as vandals and gang wars often leave them horribly damaged. It should also be noted Voxalisk aren't as popular with runner serives or door-to-door healers who seem them as too "cold and mechanical", lacking that human touch. It should be noted a rival commpany tried to claim the Voxalisk was stolen from their idea vault and is trying to take the young mage who "invented thme to the Negav Courts and claim the technology behind the spire design. It has been said that if the Voxalisk proves sucessful for another five years it's creator is thinking about attempting to add comunication options just like regular offworld comunications grids and even possibly miniture portals for transport of mail or packages from one to the other. Needless to say the Negav Postal Workers are most distraught about this idea and some of the more radical ones have even taken to sabatoging the spires to prvevent a loss of their livelyhood. There's also the issue of claims by offworlders that the waves sent from spire to spire are disruptive to electronic devices and even some foreign magi-tech gear.
How to use: Simply touch the icon on the screen to call the service you want by pressing the icon if you're a caller in need of assistance. Couldn't be simpler.
Subject: Re: Tech Level Musings 
Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:05 pm
