Updating the map

Well it's been a while but I'm going to do it finally !
So please use this thread to point things you think should be either changed or added ^^

1:
For me as a game designer it would be good if you think about proper proportions and distances this time around. What is important are proper proportions and distances, or at least between certain points, like the size of negav or the distance between vivians place and the great tree and stuff or the size of the great trench that surrounds the fairy kingdom. Also useful would be the korizontal size of Places such as Negav, Ur Sagol, the great tree, etc. Again, this is coming from me as someone who actively works with the current map, so other people might not find it that important, however, if you aim for precision, these things would be necessary. I cant say for sure if the new map is able to be implemented into the game as it is already really advanced and if the new map is like 10 times larger, I would have to toss over the entire world map plus a lot of places you were able to travel to by foot until now. Its likely I am just going to stick with the current map in case the changes are too big.

2:
No character icons or giant smiling cute looking mermaids and stuff (well mermaids would be ok since its on plain water, but you get the idea, no large things on land). They make the map look like felarya revolves around them for the most part, as if they are the most important part of the entire world, also they block the view onto the map itself in a very significant manner, especcially in the current one due to their size. Also, if someone doesnt know something like "Vivian lives at chordoni waterfalls" it is unlikely they will recognize Vivians face in the first place. And with felaryas current population of well known preds, the map could get a little full of icons anyways ^^

3:
More interesting places and settlements. The wiki has lots of them to offer, especcially nonhuman ones. If you would like some collection of places of interest that come to my mind and research on the forum and wiki, give me a day or two for research and I'll give you a few suggestions plus locations you might want to consider. But as a world- or even continental map, "Negav, Ur Sagol, Safe Harbour, Fairy Kingdom main city which I forgot the name of, Nekomura, Rosic Neko village, Deluran underground base, and Miratan base". are not enough. Thats 9 cities on a whole continent. Likely I forgot one or two but... yeah, even twice as much would be rather little.
You dont have to draw in EVERYTHING and may leave enough blank space for peoples own likings and ideas though.


4:
Stick to a high resolution. You did that in the last one and it was good. People like me like to zoom in and focus on a specific area, so it is useful to have a large base map.

5:
Not directly a coordinates grid, but maybe subtle numbers and letters at the very edge of the map, (pick letters for the smaller edge) so they can be used as reference points during discussions. So if lets say I invent a new city, I can give a description where it is and also add (E9 on the map) and everyone can look it up and see where it is without looking themselves stupid.

Of course, you could also use meridians and latitude like we have on earth. Actually I would even recommend that over the A-1 grid. With Negav as the origin and "0/0" Fixpoint. Or the great tree would be a good fixpoint as well. Yes, I am aware felarya unlike earth is not a planet, but the concept of distance lines is still viable. you would have a grid with 90° corners at all places unlike on earth, but some navigation grid system is very likely to have been invented by human military and explorers by today. Also, if you use that system, make sure you go in steps of 10 or 100 to allow for more precision for people while at the same time reducing the amount of needed Grid-lines. Since the world map only shows a continent, just imply that the coordinates just expand the further away you go, so you could easily be at a meridian of -3057.

6. A scale, maybe? Like you see in atlases. 1 cm on the map = however many km in real life. ^_^

7. Borders. I think thin lines around each location, or zone, would help give a better idea of where each zone ends and the next begins. I for one can't tell the difference between Chomikai Commons, Tolmeshal Forest, Forest of Whispers, Bulvon Wood, and Miragia Forest where some of those meet each other.

8. Colour Dridder Forest white-ish.

9. Selfishly, now that the Navroze Mountain Range is a little more fleshed-out, I'd be delighted if it got some representation of the idea on the map. Like, have one third of it have some standard greens and browns and blue lines for rivers, have the next third counter-clockwise be barren browns and greys, and have the last third be deep greens and maybe some clouds. Additionally, you could make one mountain yellow and orange in preparation for an idea I have for a sub area there. ^_^

10. It'd be interesting if Akaptor was drawn with two different colours for the sand, indicating areas with large concentrations of temporal sand apart from areas with normal sand.

11 (why are we numbering these?). Forget-me-not Island and some of the other offshore or off-the-map things that were cropped out of the previous version. I want to see more of the world, and also we could use some fresh uncharted territory. Maybe there's another human(oid) city out there somewhere that the Negavians don't know about?

12. I'd say always remember the place is growing. Along the lines with what para said, Leave some things anonymous but not too "why is it there" for speculation and ideas, that authors,writers, and designers can come up with to expand their imagination.

13. Along the lines of what Amaroq is saying, please do think about proportions in size. I can't really tell what the main continent is supposed to be other than "it's a bit bigger than Europe." How ever if you are going to add anything cute like faces for characters and a notable mentions of fluff around a place. A solid idea would be just making another layer (like with flash player) over it. Maybe perhaps adding that option on a legend or something.for a fun little button where the characters might be and with out covering the actual map involuntarily. Course I don't know how good you are with flash so you might want someone in the community that you know, that's good with URL language and flash to help expand that idea.

Alright, those are nice points, I'm noting them. Thank you
I'm especially going to put an effort on real distances this time.

14. For me, what I want to see most, is an expansion to the south of Negav. Having a scale would be nice too, of course, but I'm more curious about other things

16 - At Shillapo island can you add to the map a small sub zone know as silver cove. it is located at the most northern point of the island and I will explain the details to you in privet. I support you with $10 a month so I expect you to have to time to look into this. Thank you and good job on hitting $1000.

nipa101 wrote:

16 - At Shillapo island can you add to the map a small sub zone know as silver cove. it is located at the most northern point of the island and I will explain the details to you in privet. I support you with $10 a month so I expect you to have to time to look into this. Thank you and good job on hitting $1000.

Do be careful about how you word that. That can come off as a indirect way of demanding for some people and probably Karbo himself and the latter part after "I support...-" probably would have better in private. However you do raise a rousing question i wanted to ask earlier that i haven't seen yet.

17.If you can, maybe you should look into popular areas by fan fiction from deviant art or on here that can maybe. It sounds like a dumb question because if the place in question was popular in general and caught your interest, it would probably be in the wiki already. I'm more saying this as you should look into what your formulates for places, even the ones that aren't popular (like Nyaha's and nipa's) and if you're really thinking on that flash idea like i said earlier, you could always have the option to add these on later.

I disagree with that last one, I think the map should stick with listing the areas that are in the wiki.  The last thing we need is for everyone to all demand that Karbo puts their own made-up places there if nobody's ever heard of them or have no convenient article to read to get an idea of what the zone is about.

Anyway, just to break the numbers, cause I'm a prick, there are only three things I would want the new map to have.  The first is landmarks.  The wiki has a tiny article listing four landmarks in the known map, but we don't have quite a good indication of where on the map they are.  The Serrakmos Statue is shown, but it's the only one, plus it's a just a very tiny, very easy to miss circle on the map.  If they are truly landmarks, they should stand out.  While this has nothing to do with the map itself, perhaps a few more landmarks wouldn't hurt.

The second is mapping out the rivers.  They have their own article in the wiki, so it wouldn't hurt to have them be highlighted on the map so the article doesn't feel like a complete afterthought even though it's more detailed than the landmarks.

The last one would be differentiating each zone, either via a different palette or different "graphics" than just the same mass of green clouds.  I know it's basically asking for the map to be completely redrawn, but I think it would benefit if the areas looked more distinct.  Since most of the map is the same "overhead tree graphics", all the forested areas blend together.  For example, the Fairy Kingdom looks no different on the map than Tolmeshal Forest, like it's just an extension of Tolmeshal that has been sectioned off by the cliffs.  Same with the Oolonde Lakeland.  The areas that do stand out, like the Jungle of Peril, are simply colored with a different palette with no transition whatsoever between the two zones, which looks rather unnatural and quite lazy.  I think it would benefit from a smoother transition from the green trees to the reds.  By the same token, making some places like Kortiki Town, Nekomura and the Safe Harbor easier to see on the map would help.  I know they're not as big as say Ur-Sagol or Negav, but they're still hard to spot.  A solution for this could be to scale the map up so that Negav and Ur-Sagol look bigger, therefore allowing those three small towns to be also drawn bigger and become more visible on the map.  The same goes with Shillapo Island and Chioita City.

Speaking of Shillapo Island, I guess an impromptu fourth idea for an update would be charting out more of the sea, both on the east and on the west.  There has been decent enough development done to the sea of Felarya as of recent, both in terms of islands noted on the wiki, and simple drawings depicting scenes at sea, so it would be a good idea to show it on the map.  It could also be an opportunity to sneak a cameo of your redheaded pirate mermaid.

Ok I'm noting those ^^
The Isolon eye range is a very good idea !

Ravaging Vixens : to answer your question earlier:  sadly I am bad with flash as in almost " not knowing how to use it at all"  XD 
But still this is probably manageable with a layer system in photoshop and different versions of the map. I am still not completely sure how far i want the map to be extensive though and how it will look like.

A thing to keep in mind though, I do indeed intend to redraw it at least partially. I won't be just an update of the existing picture.  And when it's finished it will be hopefully a LOT more detailed than the current one. And yes zones will be divided more clearly. For example the fairy kingdom will be of a more blueish color than the forest of whisper and so ^^

nipa101 wrote:

16 - At Shillapo island can you add to the map a small sub zone know as silver cove. it is located at the most northern point of the island and I will explain the details to you in privet. I support you with $10 a month so I expect you to have to time to look into this. Thank you and good job on hitting $1000.

I appreciate your support, it's very generous of you  but like I told you a while ago, I am not going to tie Patreon support in any way to putting ideas on the wiki or officializing them... This is just wrong :/ the two have to remain completely separated things..

I probably should have been more specific when I thought that the zone could be distinguished better.  Changing the Fairy Kingdom so it has a more bluish palette is good, but it wouldn't be enough.  Most of the map is simply flat colors with a bit of shading filling an big empty spot with an outline that resemble a big, cartoon cloud.  It would help if, even from that bird's eye view, those flat, cloud-like had more details to make it look like the trees in one region looked quite different from the ones in another region, on top of a richer color palette.  As noted in a previous post, the Dridder Forest on the current map looks no different from the regular forest, even though it should be drawn like a zone full of dead trees covered with enormous spider webs sprawling over the entire region.  The trees of Evernight Forest could be made to look more dense than the others, same with Sunfall Thicket.  As an added effect, perhaps the ones around Tenebra Maze could darker and look corrupted, since on the current map, Tenebra Maze is indicated by a lighter color, which doesn't seem right.  The Forest of Whispers could also be drawn in a way that it marks the transition between Tolmeshal Forest and the Fairy Kingdom.

Also, to be more nitpicky, the mountains could be redrawn so they don't all look like the same peaks with slightly different shapes and sizes.

Shady knight wrote:

The last one would be differentiating each zone, either via a different palette or different "graphics" than just the same mass of green clouds. I know it's basically asking for the map to be completely redrawn, but I think it would benefit if the areas looked more distinct. Since most of the map is the same "overhead tree graphics", all the forested areas blend together. For example, the Fairy Kingdom looks no different on the map than Tolmeshal Forest, like it's just an extension of Tolmeshal that has been sectioned off by the cliffs. Same with the Oolonde Lakeland. The areas that do stand out, like the Jungle of Peril, are simply colored with a different palette with no transition whatsoever between the two zones, which looks rather unnatural and quite lazy. I think it would benefit from a smoother transition from the green trees to the reds. By the same token, making some places like Kortiki Town, Nekomura and the Safe Harbor easier to see on the map would help. I know they're not as big as say Ur-Sagol or Negav, but they're easy to miss regardkess. A solution for this could be to scale the map up so that Negav and Ur-Sagol look bigger, therefore allowing those three small towns to be also drawn bigger and become more visible on the map. The same goes with Shillapo Island and Chioita City.

18.Ok so what kind of map are we talking about?

if we're going for a map with proper scaling, you shouldn't really be able to see a city like negav at all if you were looking at it "Realistic scale". Meaning that, if the continent is actually as big or bigger than Europe, then I shouldn't be seeing the physical city itself unless the map is lying about it's size or the towns are. Now if it were for a figure of representation, As in you draw a little character for the city, but that's not it's actual size, then yes i can understand that. Otherwise if were realistically looking at it. Ur-Sagol would be the size Rouen and Elbeuf (france) put together, if i were to see the main content the size of France and then some. How ever if I were looking at it as europe then the actual city of Ur-sagol would be paris sized relating to the map we have now along with the sub cities around it. Either way this would make Negav rather small. Literally a few tens of pixels or below in realistic measures based on the two perspectives I aforementioned. So my real question is, is the main felarya continent the size of france? (Quite a bit bigger of course) or if it's the size of a contient. Then based on which ever karbo chooses. Is he going to try to make the cities visible close to their actual size or is he going to put a waypoint with a drawing graphic of a representation of the city on the map that doesn't measure up it's actual size, but to tell us that it's there? It maybe a headache to try and make of it like that but it definitely makes you think of how big the main continent (what we know of and as felarya) actually is.

Karbo wrote:

Ravaging Vixens : to answer your question earlier: �sadly I am bad with flash as in almost " not knowing how to use it at all" �XD�
But still this is probably manageable with a layer system in photoshop and different versions of the map. I am still not completely sure how far i want the map to be extensive though and how it will look like.

How about asking for help in flash map thingie? I believe if you post a request on DA, there will be capable flashers giving a hand. For free or for fee, I don't know, but the latter seems having... better chance ^^

I know e-akahele made a flash version of the original map. I'm not sure how invested he is in Felarya these days, but he might be able and willing to help. ^_^

E-Akahele hasn't been active in years and his dA page hasn't updated in a long while, so chances are he's not gonna be able to help. Anyway, as for the map itself, I just think the drawing could use a bit more detailed so that areas look more distinct from one another so you kind of have an idea of when a zone begins and when a zone ends. The name of the places help a bit, but they don't establish borders very well. I also think that giving the trees their own kind of detail, even if it's from a bird's eye view, would make the setting look more lively.

But is it supposed to be "pieced together" like that as you say? Do you have any way of backing up your claim that Jungle of Peril was a vanishing land and not something that's been with Felarya from the very beginning?  But for the sake of argument, let's say it is, okay? And while we're at it, the entire map as a whole, alright?  What if, instead of being placed the way they are, the desert and the swamp had been placed side by side with basically an outline for a border? As far as we know, a vanishing land can occur anywhere and the piece it steals doesn't necessarily have to fit the environment since whatever it's going to steal is up to complete chance.  Wouldn't such a placement look like it's been patchworked by someone who doesn't understand even basic geography?  Furthermore, at this point, I think it's safe to say that the Jungle of Peril has been there for a very, very, VERY long time, so what if the trees at the border has changed over time as to indicate a smoother transition as a sign that whatever piece of land it originally came from has now been completely "assimilated" into Felarya for a lack of a better term?

Unfortunately, Karbo is the one who has the final say in such a matter, so your one-sky-portal is just that, a theory, and not something concrete you can say for certainty. Besides, fantasy settings have had weirder than a red forest next to a normal green forest and there's never needed an explanation as for why that is, probably because no one asked for one, and an explanation would also take away from the fantastical element of a fantasy setting.

Oooh I am so glad you're doing this! I've been wondering if you'd ever get back around to updating the map again man. It's been...ages. o.o; On other's notes: Flash is not that good of an idea cause Flash costs money, ergo nobody in the community will likely want a commission to do it and likely a sizable one so they can justify getting the latest version and such. < <; I agree the map should be easier to veiw, but it should stay aerial. I used to hate aerial type maps myself, but I've been using the Felarya map for so long I have gotten used to it. I'm not opposed to the idea of getting read of the big icons of preds on the map...but I say we still need a system of keeping up with who's where. I mean that's not only useful to a write but also to a RPer and in fact I think it's time some more were added out of the well known characters like Jora, Caylin and Garnet. Now on to my ideas for what should change in the map:

19: A small water source in the Akaptor or near it. Seriously I looked at it the other day and I wondered: "How do they survive without water"?

20: Some updated map stuff for Izatem and the Oolonde Lake region in general. Seriously it looks pretty bare compared to the rest of the map.

21: Names that are readable!! Seriously I have to squint to make out most of the map. >_- It'd be easier if some of the name's would be enhanced in size on places like Rivers and such.

23: Updated human settlements with thier mini icons? I mean I didn't even know about the Thornlodge till I read the wiki.

Hmm that's all I can think of for now.

Akaptor has no oases? You'd think I'd have noticed while working on the area. Time for a Nyaha idea!

I imagine a healthy oasis apparently produced by a rock sitting at the bottom of a crater of glass in the middle of the desert. Hmmm...Does that sound good?

If you want to do it to scale, remember what you're scaling things to. So far, we haven't taken into account phenomenology, so you've got travel speeds and territories to scale things to.

The typical travel speed through secondary jungle on foot is about 500 metres (1/3 of a mile, roughly) per hour for a human, anywhere from 3 to 4 times that for the British special forces or for people who know their jungle, multiply by another factor if you're dimensioning for nekos.

The typical territory, not a clue, man. Those could overlap a lot, and a lot of deviations might just be MAGIC! For starters, fairies don't count (unless they want to), and then you can take whatever population density you like at normal scale, divide it by 364, and assume that's more or less what we're after.

I remember an island that was literally crawling with SNAKES. Please don't use that one as a model.