Gorgons

YAY people posting in my old idea thread nice to see stuff being done with the gorgons makes me happy. I shoulda made one a character of mine myself.

Well considering they're copyrighted, it's now harder to mess around and expand on them.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Well considering they're copyrighted, it's now harder to mess around and expand on them.

Copy righted to who? Me? Doesn't mean they can't be. Would you rather I uncopyright them?

If you feel like it. I'm personally fine with only two naga characters.

I am going to assume that you in fact are also melancholy-melody13. As such I shall do a dance!

On that note, is this permission to make a gorgon character? Because I have some tantalizing ideas to expand on! 8D

I wasnt aware that I need permission to make a Gorgon. Heres my idea (cut and pasted from my idea thread).
Requesting your "go ahead"

==================================================================================


Name:..........................Aegi
Species:.......................Gigan-mera
Genetic Traits:................Dryad/Gorgon
Chrono/Bio Age:.............283 / 30
Sex:.............................Female
Skin color:......................Grey
Hair color:......................Green
Eye color:......................Yellow
Tail color:.......................Dark grey
Height:..........................50 ft (15.24 m)
Length:.........................180 ft (54.8 m)
Other Characteristics:........Has enormous Gorgon wings on her back that have a bark-like color pattern.
*Although it never transfered into popular culture, the early description of Gorgons did include wings.

Aegi is believed to have been born in Charon, on Iracal Island, but she has been spotted as far as the Akaptor Desert and the Miragia Forest. A freak among giants, she lives the life of a vagabond, traveling aimlessly all over Felarya in her many years. Such a story is not uncommon for a Gigan-mera such as herself. Aegi is part Dryad and part Giant Gorgon. It is not known whether she was born with her current form or if it developed after extended periods in a highly unstable zone. She, like other Gigan-mera, are use to seeing other creatures her size turn in the opposite direction when they spot her approaching. Her heart has grown cold and bitter due to loneliness.

Aegi's body is Dryadish in that her hair is made up of vines, leaves, and flowers. Her Gorgonish tale is covered by bark, rather than scales, that shield many tiny roots underneath. She is able to pose as a tree by digging her tail into the ground to root herself, then stiffening her body as she stands upright. Her wings are tightly rapped around her body to complete the look. When hunting, Aegi can't simply reach down and snatch a meal because she has to spread her wings to release her arms first, and usually gives her away. Therefore Aegi is always prepared to uproot herself to chase her prey if she can't snatch it before it gets too far away. She also hunts by stalking her prey then springing out to snatch them while their defenses are down.
Aegi has a love-hate relationship with eating humanoids. After being cast off by her fellow giants a small part of her always holds on to hope that the smaller creatures might be more accepting, but alas, their reactions are even worse. They only scream and run away, or pretend to be friendly just so they won't get eaten. To add insult to injury, the humanoids call her a "monster," rather than simply calling her a Dryad or a Gorgon when they run away screaming. It may be an unconscious reflex of the humanoid, but it infuriates Aegi and guarantees that she will eat them. They will see how frightening a "monster" can truly be.

She is not the biggest creature in Felarya so other giant predators, especially the non-sentient, have attempted to prey on her. To escape these dangers Aegi's Gorgon eyes come into play. Rather than flee on the ground or try to take to the sky, Aegi stares her predator down with the paralyzing power of her gaze. During this time, her hair full of branches and leaves does its usual snake-like movements that the Gorgons are known for. Depending on the size and intelligence of the predator, the less the better, this usually holds them just long enough for Aegi to reach a safe distance. But there are some creatures that are too vicious, or too strong to be held for long. Aegi has had many close calls in her travels and the scars on her tail will attest to that.




(See my idea thread for the definition of Gigan-mera.)
================================================================================

edit: I know its kind of a crazy character

Well not so much me asking for permission to make a character as much as it is permission to possibly go crazy with the original concept.

I have a terrible habit of letting my ideas get away from me and while I am sure the folks on the character discussion board would help me reign it in, I was sort of just looking for a go ahead without fear of being snarled at. I figure what ideas I do have will be well within the okay perimeters though.

You'll notice that in the wiki, Gorgons are highlighted in reddish text. At the bottom of the page where the credits are you'll see: "Gorgons belong to Melancholy-Melody13."
If something is listed as 'belonging to' rather than 'credited to' then that means that the idea is still their idea. You must ask before using them.

Taken from the disclaimer:
(This is not the entire disclaimer, just relevant parts. Any emphasis is also mine).

Karbo wrote:

We need a disclaimer because everything in the wiki needs to be usable by the community and myself without fear of legal complications.

If your ideas made it into the Felarya wiki before November 15th, 2009 and you object to the disclaimer, your work will still be canon, but marked accordingly, appearing in a different color in the wiki to make it known it's still yours.
You must be aware however, that it means I will be a bit reluctant to build things on it, use it in my work, or mentioning it in another idea, as the future and very existence of the idea essentially lie in your hands...

By submitting your ideas for canonization (and inclusion in the Felarya wiki), you accept that, if it is retained, you are hereby giving up ownership of the idea. You will be credited with the idea in the wiki and anyone that uses your idea in any of their works is fully expected to give you some amount of credit. They are also expected to contact you about your idea and ask for permission, and if their implementation of your idea is not to your liking, you can tell them how they can change it.

Of course, if they've left the community then you're not expected to contact them as that would be extremely difficult.

I can understand for other ideas like miaxi or other ideas of this contributor, which are made from scratch and based on real life insects but Gorgans I have some doubts. Because the design half woman half snake with snake hair as far as I know it's from the original Clash of the Titans since it has been used in many medias and fictions. The name Gorgons and the ability to turn someone into stone with their gaze come from the Greek mythology which belongs to the public domain. The only thing which can make we ask for a permission it's their divination ability or their ability to see futures but it's common in fictions, myth and media So unless there are a specific process but it's not the case.

I precise it's the only idea where I find the disclaimer a bit exaggerate because the originality of this idea is debatable.

Indeed there is something there. I'm fine with the other ideas retaining ownership and not being fully integrated but this particular one is more problematic because both the concept and name are already existing ^^;

Sooooo then... does this mean I can make a Gorgon character or not?

The whole idea of fortune telling or being human-sized is sort of a mutable option to me. I am more than willing to dream up a Beta version of Gorgons. Perhaps another species of creature in which the symbiotic snake hair is willing to attach? I'm honest when I say the only new twist to Gorgons I have heard concerning the ones in the current Felarya wiki is the Divination aspect of them, but as gwada said, it is a common theme in myths and media.

For now I can occupy myself by concocting a Beta Gorgon 1.0.

I think the Banshee would also be problematic, but that's just me.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I think the Banshee would also be problematic, but that's just me.

The what now? O_o

Essentially the wailing undead, except it's a Bat Harpy, and the scream can short circuit machines for some reason.

Banshee is not problematic because 1) Banshee is the name of type of bat harpy but not all the bat harpies are banshee. 2) Banshee is a common name you can use it to a character or another creature or race.
What you can't do is to create a subspecie of bat harpy and name it "banshee" it's already done here.
In the case of the gorgons a similar creature already exist and is as common as mermaids, centaure, nagas or Lamia, chalena, or fairy. The design too. You can't claim an ownership on the whole type or specie but to a specific subspecie.

So basically what we have on the wiki right now is a specific subspecies of Gorgon. More specifically, one that specializes in Divination, fortune-telling and prophecy. Then in that case wouldn't it be more prudent to name it as a type of Gorgon versus the general title of just "Gorgon"?

On another note I have indeed resolved to try my hand at creature creation and scribble out something involving my favorite snake-haired ladies. If anyone wants to do me a favor and review it before I throw it up on the forum and look like an ignoramus, I would appreciate it!

Malhavoc Shade wrote:

So basically what we have on the wiki right now is a specific subspecies of Gorgon. More specifically, one that specializes in Divination, fortune-telling and prophecy. Then in that case wouldn't it be more prudent to name it as a type of Gorgon versus the general title of just "Gorgon"?

Indeed.

Malhavoc Shade wrote:

On another note I have indeed resolved to try my hand at creature creation and scribble out something involving my favorite snake-haired ladies. If anyone wants to do me a favor and review it before I throw it up on the forum and look like an ignoramus, I would appreciate it!

I'm always up for anything like that.

In regard to the "reshaping" statue'd people: Personally, I would say that most Gorgons could not do such, and that any attempt would - more probably - wind up with the person missing decent chunks of their flesh come de-petrification (at best! Woe betide if the person working the stone went through muscle, or even bone). That is because you only did just what the spell / effect / power described: Temporarily turned the person / being to stone.

However, at the same time, if you had some access to both polymorph and general alteration magic, you could change the person. You could probably change them without turning them to stone, as well, but it'd be a great deal easier to make the changes whilst someone is turned to stone (they don't have the consciousness to resist the spell mentally, much of their anti-magic gear and innate powers are neutralized by currently having the composition of stone, they cannot work counter-spells or flee before the spell might be cast, etcetera). Not to say any schmuck with a "Polymorphing for Dummies" book and a Gorgon-based Statue could make their own person on a whim (it'd still take some effort to not accidentally make the stone structure "hollow" in places), and you couldn't exactly add mass to the changed being (Any objects turned to stone on them would be fair game, but any other mass would be new / additional), but it would be possible to make changes. All physical, mind, as similar to the "no will to resist" they also have no real mind to be modified (you could change the general shape and the like, but that's prone to much problems as you're working on an extremely complex organ with no idea of the end-result until the spell ends).

Essentially, I would argue that you would need the power to already change someone's appearance / biology to modify someone Gorgon-statued , but in return it's much easier in that state as you can overcome a lot of the problems of a non-petrified person. Has its own problems, but overall is more "helpful" to the polymorph cause than harmful (at least provided you're not trying to polymorph the person into something bigger).


In regard to the Gorgon's petrification ability in general: Can they, with the power to completely petrify a person-sized mass, instead choose to use their ability to petrify approximately (or smaller) sized masses of flesh / matter? For example, if a Slug Girl is reaching for one, could they temporarily turn the lips to stone to prevent said Slug Girl from eating them (their lips quite literally sealed)? If so, would this power only work toward biological matter (the above example), or in general (ex: Making a man-sized mass of water into stone to form a temporary bridge across a river)?


Note: The top-most is all opinion, and the second is a question. In no way do I determine / influence the canon of 13's Gorgons, unless she should choose to comment on matters I bring up.

Malahite wrote:

In regard to the Gorgon's petrification ability in general: Can they, with the power to completely petrify a person-sized mass, instead choose to use their ability to petrify approximately (or smaller) sized masses of flesh / matter? For example, if a Slug Girl is reaching for one, could they temporarily turn the lips to stone to prevent said Slug Girl from eating them (their lips quite literally sealed)? If so, would this power only work toward biological matter (the above example), or in general (ex: Making a man-sized mass of water into stone to form a temporary bridge across a river)?

Not too sure on that. In fact, by making it a man-sized mass it really throws off a lot of the mythology theories. Mythologically speaking, it requires eye-contact, but the size of the target was never an issue. I believe the Gorgons of old were able to petrify larger than man-sized mythical beasts. Whether they also petrified the equipment they were carrying too was never addressed, but it is possible. So then, from that standpoint, you can't really look a Slug Girl's lips in the 'eye' and freeze them, nor could you look a river in the eye.

Whilst I scribble out the Gorgon subspecies I am pondering, I shall consider these things. Perhaps a genesis of Gorgons that specialize in Stone Shaping?

Malhavoc Shade wrote:

Not too sure on that. In fact, by making it a man-sized mass it really throws off a lot of the mythology theories. Mythologically speaking, it requires eye-contact, but the size of the target was never an issue. I believe the Gorgons of old were able to petrify larger than man-sized mythical beasts.

Not sure about other Gorgons (and whether they had the same stone power), but I believe most of Medusa's victims were to be regular humans who looked upon her either as she came upon them, or they came upon her.

The eye contact thing was important, though, and I forgot that. Furthermore, unfortunately, Gorgons (Felaryan ones on the Wiki) are stated to have their abilities limited to human-sized beings. Now, arguably, this could go both ways: They can't petrify a Giant, nor can they petrify a dog or a Tiny. However, most probably, the designation was intended for "A Gorgon can stop anything up to and including human-sized beings".

Temporarily petrifying a Giant Predator, even if only for a minute, would be seen as much too powerful by many people on here. I can sort-of agree and disagree with such (there's not exactly a lot of beings that can damage / destroy that large a stone object unless using weaponry / spells that would already be very bad for a Giant Predator to be hit by, but in return this could theoretically give some absurd high-ends for what can and cannot be petrified). However, my opinion doesn't matter much on this: Current wiki statement is man-sized, and while it doesn't exactly specify that they cannot petrify larger beings or give a height for the person, general consensus / interpretation would probably be akin to the Fairy Size-Changing Magical Abilities.

Malhavoc Shade wrote:

Whether they also petrified the equipment they were carrying too was never addressed, but it is possible. So then, from that standpoint, you can't really look a Slug Girl's lips in the 'eye' and freeze them, nor could you look a river in the eye.

Fair enough. The reason I assumed equipment is that it's the typical interpretation of petrification, though technically body-alone would probably be the better basis to work from. After all, it's often called flesh to stone with then a specification in the description that says worn equipment is also changed, meaning it's not technically the norm to petrify someone's gear with them.

In regards to petrifaction one thing that could be looked at is in one manga I read the gorgans petrifaction worked by the gorgans hair biting the victim and a certain area around the wound turned to stone. This would mean that no you could not turn water to stone as you can't really bite water, but a slug girls lips could be petrified by waiting until you were close enough and having your hair bite the slug girl’s lips before she could drop you in.

I can totally understand wanting to avoid the 'petrify giant predator' bit. Too much risk of breaking things if it isn't pretty specific. Best to avoid the problem. What I would like to explore though, is the differentiation between Gorgons and the more common Small Nagas. Do Gorgons also have larger kin? Are they even native to Felarya to begin with? What is it that gives them the Stone Gaze? Why snakes for hair? All fun things to ponder.

Solution to human sized gorgons not petrifying giants:
In order for something to be petrified their natural magical field must be overcome. A human-sized gorgon can easily overpower a human's magical field with their power, however a giant's magical field is far to strong for it to be effected by a human sized gorgon.

Would then a mage have a larger magical field? How would that effect petrification? So many ideas! *scribbles furiously*