Fleshing out Vishmitals

Between some conversations both in the chatbox and with Vix, I've gotten to thinking that the Vishmitals can be fleshed out a lot more.  Right now, their wiki page is still topped with "under construction," their entire history is condensed into a paragraph and a half, and it doesn't even specify that they're human.  So what makes the Vishmital different from any of the other several technologically advanced groups of humans, and how can we expand on that?

One idea that Vix and I have both had is that Vishmitals need not actually be only composed of humans.  At its peak, the Vishmital Empire spanned thousands of planets; it's almost a certainty that they encountered other races.  Elves seem to be the most likely to me to have been integrated into the culture for several reasons, chief being their interfertility with humans and their position, after humans, as one of the more common sentient races in the cosmos.  Nekos/inus and other races might also be part of the culture, though whether they are accepted as full Vishmitals or seen as allied outsiders is just as up for discussion as to whether the Vishmitals encountered them.

As for the members (both human and otherwise) of the Vishmital culture, what differentiates them from the ACME standard model that you can find lying under just about any rock?  The wiki entry mentions a genetic imprint that all Vishmitals have that makes them prioritize the wellbeing of the Vishmital culture and empire over all else.  I think this could easily be expanded upon to be something more; during their conquest, the Vishmitals needed to maintain power over thousands of planets.  With their level of technology, minor genetic modifications wouldn't be beyond their abilities; being able to genetically ensure that their populations wouldn't try and work against the empire would be an invaluable feat.  It's also nowhere near that simple; however, a combination of behavioral modifications (greater sense of community and willingness for self-sacrifice for that community, perhaps combined with a small increase of distrust of outsiders) and some sort of genetic marker, likely with physical manifestation, to identify who is Vishmital and who isn't.  Right now, I don't have any solid ideas for what the physical manifestation would be, but whatever it is, it would work so that even two Vishmitals from across the galaxy would know just by meeting that they're part of the same community.  As a side note, this does possibly limit other races being Vishmitals due to compatibility with the genetic markers and modifications; elves should be compatible, due to their interfertility with humans, which is another reason they're likely to be included in the culture.

Also on the topic of Vishmital elves, Vix had the idea that, as "space elves", they would have different magical aptitudes.  Vix suggested, and I agree, that given the general logical, calm, and calculating nature of Vishmitals, an aptitude for pisonics would make sense; I would personally pair that with a lower aptitude for wild and primordial magic.  If these elves were a part of the Vishmital culture from early on in the empire, I could easily see both the aptitude and the general elf smugness permeating Vishmital society due to interbreeding, possibly to the point where almost all Vishmitals have some elven blood in them and half-elves are commonplace (it would definitely fit the "children of eternity" thing).

Vix has several more ideas, which I'll let her post herself.  Anyone else is welcome to contribute their thoughts, both feedback on existing suggestions and new suggestions.

Well now! Another fighter joins our cause! Welcome to the Vishi Fan Club, Gamma! Genetic imprint eh? Huh here I've been making weapons and tech for Vishies without even knowing that. - _ -; Gee don't I look brilliant, huh? Still! Your insights are interesting so far and I'm glad you're onboard with Vix's idea of multiple races in the Empire as it just makes good common sense. I am glad you didn't take the geneti marker to the "forced loyality" route cause you'd step on Karbo's toes a little when he showed us "Rebel Vishmital" in the first or second tome....can't remember but I'm sure they have an impportant role to play as of yet. Still there's loads of ideas you're words have given me to play with the next time I go about developing some new tech and I wish to say hope you will continue to be useful to the Empire.

Thanks for the support. And yes, it's entirely possible that, with their level of technology, more advanced or larger tech could be keyed to those markers...

On a semi-related note, Vishmitals also seem to be the largest and/or most likely source of cybernetics in Felarya. How common do we want to make cybernetic replacements and enhancements? I could easily see a simple, small neural interface being common and either useful or downright required to use some Vishmital tech; small electronic pads in the palms or fingers for ultra-near-field (possibly inductive) communications with devices and weapons. And, of course, replacement limbs and eyes, complete with useful gadgets and sensors. I'm wondering if they'd be useful enough for people to want them even if they didn't need a body part replaced (and hey, everyone knows they could use an extra arm from time to time).

Hmm I like the idea of genetic keys to operate some Vishi tech! Obviously not everything can be keyed to them genetically or their trade would be limited between one another and given that their homewold is gone? ^^; That'd weaken their position badly. Speaking of....

Gammera! wrote:

On a semi-related note, Vishmitals also seem to be the largest and/or most likely source of cybernetics in Felarya. How common do we want to make cybernetic replacements and enhancements?

Hmm depends. We have Labenmachs, who are living machines, and we've seen cybernetic eyes and such but I'm not sure if having every Vishi have two metal arms is practicall given the loss of their homeworld and their tenous hold on Negav. Even the best tech has to be mantained which requires ore extraction and processing and I'm not sure the Vishies would be able to neogociate a deal with the Psi'ol to extract metals from the same mines as they get their Ascarlin. Hmmm but I could actually see them being okay with the Vishies buying scrap from them the Vishies of a more enterprising nature make a place like my Bunker Town, a city of linked bunkers built on a old Ur Sagolian era mine. Either way maybe it's time we make a thread for all us Vishie lovers to pool our resources and finally begin to develop them out more.

Lockheed X-17 wrote:

Would the Vishmitals have Alcubierre Drives? A large galactic empire needs a fast way to travel around the galaxy.

You have got to do a little more research. They don't really have much of a harmonius empire anymore. It all got scattered when they left their universe.


Anyways, for their hardcore weapons. ID imprints on such weapons is an idea even today. Though in a place where you don't have much control over a society over your rivial (The magiocrats *cough cough*) you are going to make trade more accessible to others. So only on your really special toys can a see a neural track or genetic imprintment be put upon for practical usage by your side.

Now as far as cybernetics go. Here's the thing, yes they have all the stuff to do that and yes they're very advanced to do that anyways. But they have a rough competition with their adversaries on winning the social trade or accessibility to bring all this stuff forward. The magiocrats according to karbo made it paranoid for people in general to start using vishmital tech on wide usage. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though as given in their current writement. They are very good at negotiating. These guys will benefit more people outside of negav or from worlds that are mostly technological then magic oriented.

Oh, I could definitely see the magiocrats stigmatizing tech, and Vishmitals everywhere bemoaning that in daily life in Negav, they're stuck with only using two arms unless they want to be ostracized by the general populace. Now, in the nice comfort of their home, however...

One thing we haven't seen discussion on yet is how or if Vishmitals would be visually distinct from non-Vishmital people (and I don't think there's much, if any, artwork of Vishmitals out there). Any ideas on that front? Ideally, I'm thinking of some visually distinct but not overly flashy, gaudy, or showy feature or two would be part of the genetic imprinting to help Vishmitals identify each other as part of the same community. Maybe some sort of eye pattern?

ravaging vixen wrote:

Anyways, for their hardcore weapons. ID imprints on such weapons is an idea even today. Though in a place where you don't have much control over a society over your rivial (The magiocrats *cough cough*) you are going to make trade more accessible to others. So only on your really special toys can a see a neural track or genetic imprintment be put upon for practical usage by your side.

Aye. Otherwise we wouldn't see non-Vishies with hot riffles and Vishmitali and Vishmitaka...which I should post a link to. XD Anywho their ships, power armor and the like? Genetically coded to their owners cause they're just too dangerous in the wrong hands. There's also the matter of,as I said earlier, getting materials to build new tech which I think we should explore the idea the Vishies trade basic tech and minor secrets for scrap or mining rights or at leasrt outline who they manage to rivial those dastardly Magiocrats in terms of political influence and industry. <.< I mean they aren't just some group of fancy dressed wizards. They overthrew the Nekos and set themselves up as kings of Negav pretty much. It'd take alot just to keep one toe int he ring with that much influence. I suppose there's the fact the Civil War weakened both sides and make them realize Magic VS Tech was less profittable than giving the Vishies some space.

Ravishing Vixen wrote:

Now as far as cybernetics go. Here's the thing, yes they have all the stuff to do that and yes they're very advanced to do that anyways. But they have a rough competition with their adversaries on winning the social trade or accessibility to bring all this stuff forward. The magiocrats according to karbo made it paranoid for people in general to start using vishmital tech on wide usage. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen though as given in their current writement. They are very good at negotiating. These guys will benefit more people outside of negav or from worlds that are mostly technological then magic oriented.

I agree. Mostly Vishies who have cybernetics are probably ones who fought in the brief civil war with the Psi'ol and a few richer ones who probably wear them as fashion trends more then necessity. The common Vishies however probably don't even have so much as a old school Neck-Port or Borg-Zoom-Eye that takes up half the head cause it's so horribly out of date. XD Though it's amusing to imagine the diferences.

Gamma wrote:

One thing we haven't seen discussion on yet is how or if Vishmitals would be visually distinct from non-Vishmital people

Ahhh that's hard to say. See there's no stock model for even Negavians let alone Vishies but obviously they'd be wearing some basic glowy-shiny-things depending on their class and carry more fire arms than the average Negavian. But as for pyhisical diferences? Most of the hard ware's under the hood but the outer casing of Hu-Vishies is mostly what you'd expect from humans. Now for Xeno-Vishies (anything non-humanoid) it depends on the species. I think probably the best way to tell if somebody you meet ont he street is a Imperial Supporter is to simply look at how they dress. Vishie clothes are smoother and more finely made. Vishi armor is probably like Plasteel and thus lightweight but durable. Though Vishies are paranoid by nature and I'd worry about the neko wearing her skin more than the guy in bright plastoid armor with the over sized riffle. Him you can be sure of but that neko? <.< She could be Scphy!

Gamma wrote:

Oh, I could definitely see the magiocrats stigmatizing tech, and Vishmitals everywhere bemoaning that in daily life in Negav, they're stuck with only using two arms unless they want to be ostracized by the general populace. Now, in the nice comfort of their home, however...

Here’s how i Kind of see it in their social life. Given that the Vishmitals on this side of felarya came in two waves. You are first going to have to assume the first wave was all military. Since The walls defenses were set up prior to the second wave.  Which means that this second fleet that came in was mostly like a large amount of their civilians with some extra military auxiliary support and assurance. Now that they aren’t as big as an empire, and a fleet for that matter. What do you think happened in between all of that, with themselves, the organization. I bet you anything the military command had more of a say of what they should be doing then civil politicians because they were there first. Might even try to be protecting them from the wrath of the p’siol council by not outright saying “This is an important politician” when needed which is why i bet you they set up the security first before the magiocrats had the chance to organize the investigators. If you notice searching through the wiki, the Vishmitals have more in terms of setting up numbers of security for the city then the  magiocrats. VISA and the militias for each sector of  city were instituted by them. They might even have a hidden but large military presence then the Islon fist, but due to political dogma, it’s overshadowed by the premier  military unit . Which is probably why they use mercenaries  a lot (more specifically elite mercenaries like the kensha hussars) to have a covert presence in the background of  things. Especially after a near escalated but avoided civil war with the magiocrats. Which brings me to question if they’re providing almost all the security and defense, why do the magiocrats have the upper hand, or they probably don’t given these recent circumstances, it might what is giving the vishmitals the edge to have a profound say on some matters to grow to their cause in the political sphere.

Now as far as cybernetics and that technology, that depends on what kind of focus we want them to have on. I honestly imagine more to be like the UNSC in halo where they have a general trend of everything (now with some developments in magitech) Where they have decent cybernetics to replace someone's limbs with a hand or and arm that does all 52+ movements of the hand (but you could do that by transplanting a lebenmach’s arm) Decent advanced genetic engineering to where you can flash clone things like organs and what not. Having all their vehicles run on super advanced hydrogen fuel celled engine to save logistical resources. Maybe even small fusion  engines to power small and large mechs and to keep their   ships afloat (They had to have came in on ships right? Another talk for later for where they might be storing them). Not their AI though. If if you think about. It if they set up an really advanced AI at the “outpost”, something akin to a cortana or a glados, Near sapient and sentient. It wouldn’t have have fell so easily to a bunch of storm sprites. So i imagine their AI being smart, but not that smart.  Unless they’re keeping one of those as a hidden surprise to expand or capture negav In the grand scheme of things.

Now this kind of leisure amongst themselves. Similar to what jedi is saying up above. I imagine them to have the “civies” be groveling with their two hands and feet because they didn’t have the accessibility of what they used to have ingrained with their technology and society.They have to adapt and exchange in a survivalist attitude, everything must be practical to ensure the  But they still have some access to high tech leisure  like being able to replace their arms with a bulkier looking model of  a mechanical arm that does all the movements and a neural interface they probably have to wear with goggles or something like that, call it more practical and accessible. While the ones  living in the high tiers which are most likely the high minded military individuals or V.I.P’s have the neural  implants hidden with in their necks, their ability to remote control something with digital minds and memory . Having more a  more realistic synthetic arm or leg that looks almost real . You get the idea, more commodities. Though the the contrast might be different depending on which communities you’re going into. The farmers, the fledgling traders, or even the difference between the Elven or the human ones if that Idea is to Karbo’s liking.

Gamma wrote:

One thing we haven't seen discussion on yet is how or if Vishmitals would be visually distinct from non-Vishmital people (and I don't think there's much, if any, artwork of Vishmitals out there). Any ideas on that front? Ideally, I'm thinking of some visually distinct but not overly flashy, gaudy, or showy feature or two would be part of the genetic imprinting to help Vishmitals identify each other as part of the same community. Maybe some sort of eye pattern?

Yeah i’m with Jedi on this, probably the most instinctive thing were to be their clothes. If i may make a suggestion however  an Idea I had would be that their main dark color or “common” color of hair would be a dark purple. Very light caucasian skin for the 1st descendant vishmitals (Them being spacers and colonist to begin with.  As for the elves, they would have the lighter hues in the color contrast of purple. Such as light blue hair and lighter and more pronounced features. Taller and lankier individuals not so much on physical prowess of strength but flexibility and agility to again, accommodate long space travel. One cool feature  Now going back to what you said earlier. I think you mean the word fertile instead of infertile right. As in they can have kids with each other? From what i understand how they expanded was that they made an empire amongst themselves as humans before doing dimensional FTL and conquering more planets to expand for a brief season. Though to make things easier, let’s say the ones in felarya we see commonly are mostly composed of elves and humans (There maybe more but i’d like to exchange that topic for a little later.

The jedi-explorer wrote:

Aye. Otherwise we wouldn't see non-Vishies with hot riffles and Vishmitali and Vishmitaka...which I should post a link to. XD Anywho their ships, power armor and the like? Genetically coded to their owners cause they're just too dangerous in the wrong hands. There's also the matter of,as I said earlier, getting materials to build new tech which I think we should explore the idea the Vishies trade basic tech and minor secrets for scrap or mining rights or at leasrt outline who they manage to rivial those dastardly Magiocrats in terms of political influence and industry. <.< I mean they aren't just some group of fancy dressed wizards. They overthrew the Nekos and set themselves up as kings of Negav pretty much. It'd take alot just to keep one toe int he ring with that much influence. I suppose there's the fact the Civil War weakened both sides and make them realize Magic VS Tech was less profittable than giving the Vishies some space.

That’s the  kind of mentality i think they would have. They would either keep their special stuff inside the vaults of their parts of negav or set up shop far away from it to experiment on tech (or magitech for that matter) further. Outside of Negav I imagine Inu communities being the most susceptible to their cause. Given the new rendition of what they are in the wiki. They seem to be mechanically and logically inquisitive more so than on magic. So the vishmitals might make a bigger push on the social  aspect of things for inus  by saying “Hey look, we improved their lives so much better than what the magiocrats could do with the nekos.” In hindsight, that’s how a vishmital with a hegemonic mindset would be thinking and it would make a lot of magiocrats jealous and probably a little stinge from nekos for mocking them a bit further which might inadvertently make them think “You know what? screw these Vishies, they helped these dogs  better than us, let’s get in a little better relations with the magiocrats to spite them” Fun stuff to think about.

Ravishing Vixen wrote:

I bet you anything the military command had more of a say of what they should be doing then civil politicians because they were there first. Might even try to be protecting them from the wrath of the p’siol council by not outright saying “This is an important politician” when needed which is why i bet you they set up the security first before the magiocrats had the chance to organize the investigators.

Wooow that is clever and a aspect of them I hadn't considered! I mean their world pretty much blew up even if they got all their politicians off world in time and assuming there weren't 'impeachements via foldy little sword' the new Vishie Politicians would need the military more than ever. It also means some military officers may be replacing politicians for their own safety and the Psi'ol are none the wiser! XD That's a amusing image.

Ravishing Vixen wrote:

Not their AI though. If if you think about. It if they set up an really advanced AI at the “outpost”, something akin to a cortana or a glados, Near sapient and sentient. It wouldn’t have have fell so easily to a bunch of storm sprites.

XD You're assuming that said AI didn't team up with the Storm Sprites. ;P Maybe in the hope of making the Vishimitals abadnon the station so it would be under it's control. *Feels a story idea come on* < <; Darnit why does that happen at the least opertune moment? Ugh. Anywho I agree cybernetics don't all need to be SW types, just plain tech,

Ravishing Vixen wrote:

Yeah i’m with Jedi on this, probably the most instinctive thing were to be their clothes. If i may make a suggestion however an Idea I had would be that their main dark color or “common” color of hair would be a dark purple. Very light caucasian skin for the 1st descendant vishmitals (Them being spacers and colonist to begin with. As for the elves, they would have the lighter hues in the color contrast of purple. Such as light blue hair and lighter and more pronounced features. Taller and lankier individuals not so much on physical prowess of strength but flexibility and agility to again, accommodate long space travel.

OOooh I like that physical image of their humanoid forms. I may be baist being purple haired myself ,but I still love that being the template model. I also like how Vish-Elves would be more distinct than the typical model! Nice idea, Vix! ^_^ Now what about Xeno-Vish from the universe at large? IE: Near humans like me.

Ravishing Vixen wrote:

Having all their vehicles run on super advanced hydrogen fuel celled engine to save logistical resources. Maybe even small fusion engines to power small and large mechs and to keep their ships afloat (They had to have came in on ships right? Another talk for later for where they might be storing them).

It's possible they may be near Negav cloaked. After all if you had repulsor tech or anti-gravity stuff then it's possible they are hidden somewhere in the air.It's also possible if you have energy sheilds and near-infinite power source they could use them the same way the Thrill Seekers use a crashed star cruiser as a base of operations in the jungle.

Ravishing Vixen wrote:

That’s the kind of mentality i think they would have. They would either keep their special stuff inside the vaults of their parts of negav or set up shop far away from it to experiment on tech (or magitech for that matter) further. Outside of Negav I imagine Inu communities being the most susceptible to their cause. Given the new rendition of what they are in the wiki. They seem to be mechanically and logically inquisitive more so than on magic. So the vishmitals might make a bigger push on the social aspect of things for inus by saying “Hey look, we improved their lives so much better than what the magiocrats could do with the nekos.” In hindsight, that’s how a vishmital with a hegemonic mindset would be thinking and it would make a lot of magiocrats jealous and probably a little stinge from nekos for mocking them a bit further which might inadvertently make them think “You know what? screw these Vishies, they helped these dogs better than us, let’s get in a little better relations with the magiocrats to spite them” Fun stuff to think about.

Vishi Vaults eh? <.< I like the sound of that. XD Sounds like a fun expansion area for Negav. Really? Inu's are now more techy? O_o I didn't know that! Ugh I need to find all these article updatres or French and Karbo need to post on the Felarya Group when the major articles get new descriptions. Heck I think the Vishie ranks on it currently are out of date. <.< Huh it does seem Negavian politics are getting funnier and funnier lately but I agree it's be need to see Psi'ol benefiting from 'cats' and Vishies benefiting from 'dogs'. XD The more things change the more they stay the same eh?

The Jedi-explorer wrote:

XD You're assuming that said AI didn't team up with the Storm Sprites. ;P Maybe in the hope of making the Vishimitals abandon the station so it would be under it's control. *Feels a story idea come on* < <; Drat, why does that happen at the least opportune moment? Ugh. Any who I agree cybernetics don't all need to be SW types, just plain tech,

If you're going to do that route, you know what would be funny? The avatar of the Ai is young girl in her teens that went totally rampant to let them in and just messes with adventures above the base and the supposed vast underground network underneath it. Even hinting their might me something special to look forward finding down there, but no one knows what it is. Meanwhile There's a more "Big mamma" AI they're prepping up for to retake the base and possibly negav.

The Jedi-Explorer wrote:

OOooh I like that physical image of their humanoid forms. I may be baist being purple haired myself ,but I still love that being the template model. I also like how Vish-Elves would be more distinct than the typical model! Nice idea, Vix! ^_^ Now what about Xeno-Vish from the universe at large? IE: Near humans like me

.

I was actually trying to describe both, but yeah maybe not. Maybe keep the base human model "basey" with the hair. One thing i would like to have with them and if you guys agree. Is that their eyes have a low glow in dark environments and that they can see a little better at night, nothing too over the top though.

The Jedi-Explorer wrote:

It's possible they may be near Negav cloaked. After all if you had repulsor tech or anti-gravity stuff then it's possible they are hidden somewhere in the air.It's also possible if you have energy sheilds and near-infinite power source they could use them the same way the Thrill Seekers use a crashed star cruiser as a base of operations in the jungle.

There's a few problems with going near and cloaked, and possibly crash landing. Well actually it isn't too far fetched, but i would think the security is locked up around them tight, even from the magiocrats possibly. What we could do to make the magiocrats have a logical edge on why they can slightly have a leash on the vishmitals and their stay besides throwing out propaganda and political dogma. Is that the main mother ships (yes i said that plural, two waves remember?) could have a severe incident that destroys their drives while trying to dimensional FTL past or into felarya which caused them to malifunction and inevitable think of their stay as long or permanent. From there you can then say that their harcore R&D ships that would fix this problem are currently not present and who knows if they ever will be, and that the drives they have are too complex to fix in several years. It might take a couple of centuries or even half a millennium to just fix with what they can have and find. Then even from there! You could say that this is why, under the counter and behind the door of things. Is why the Vishmital are trying to build all these outpost, bases, and make relations with towns and villages outside of negav who are likeminded. They trying to find pieces of technology to get their drives back on their big ships so they can either leave or have a piece of their "redemption" empire on felarya. Who knows the real incentive huh? That'll be the big twist in their own little schemes i'm sure would make fun curiosity.

Though if these ships are hidden you might need to think of a reasonable location to hide big ships in the jungle jedi. I can help with defenses and what not to detter predators or other things and things besides the Islon eye method or similar but I will say it's going to be tough. You can join in too Gamma!

Jedi-explorer wrote:

Heck I think the Vishie ranks on it currently are out of date.

They were never thoroughly organized to begin with. Lets see if we can help out karbo with that!

Ravishing Vixen in Vishie Power Armor wrote:

If you're going to do that route, you know what would be funny? The avatar of the Ai is young girl in her teens that went totally rampant to let them in and just messes with adventures above the base and the supposed vast underground network underneath it. Even hinting their might me something special to look forward finding down there, but no one knows what it is. Meanwhile There's a more "Big mamma" AI they're prepping up for to retake the base and possibly negav.

XD Firstly yes! One of my big things against true AI in most stories is people assume a more human computer will be the perfect worker instead of thinking if it's human-like to the max then why wouldn't it act more human? Also that makes me realize an AI isn't necessarily 'born' with all the maturity it needs and that means in a sense it's like a killer comsmic tamagotchi only if you don't play with it? It lets in fun little sprites who will! =D The latter is genius as long as we don't do what TAALR did in Extant. <.<;

If you're only on Season 2 of Extant....er don't open this.:

Ravishing Vixen in Vishie Power Armor with a Vishmitaka wrote:

I was actually trying to describe both, but yeah maybe not. Maybe keep the base human model "basey" with the hair. One thing i would like to have with them and if you guys agree. Is that their eyes have a low glow in dark environments and that they can see a little better at night, nothing too over the top though.

Oooh! Okay I suppose it could work for both. Guess it depends on how much interbreeding is involved between local Vish-Elves and regular ones doesn't it? Hmm speaking of I wonder what the guidelines are for Vishie's falling in love or lust? Glowing eyes? No never! <--- Said by the fellow with green eyes that almost seem to glow. <.< XD I'm kidding ofcourse! Makes perfect sense but is it a natural thing or tech?

Ravishing Vixen Dual Weilding V0M Hot Riffles wrote:

s that the main mother ships (yes i said that plural, two waves remember?) could have a severe incident that destroys their drives while trying to dimensional FTL past or into felarya which caused them to malifunction and inevitable think of their stay as long or permanent. From there you can then say that their harcore R&D ships that would fix this problem are currently not present and who knows if they ever will be, and that the drives they have are too complex to fix in several years. It might take a couple of centuries or even half a millennium to just fix with what they can have and find. Then even from there! You could say that this is why, under the counter and behind the door of things. Is why the Vishmital are trying to build all these outpost, bases, and make relations with towns and villages outside of negav who are likeminded. They trying to find pieces of technology to get their drives back on their big ships so they can either leave or have a piece of their "redemption" empire on felarya.

Ah this is a interesting idea and logical too. In fact it makes the Vishimital's seem more desperate and dangerous than they allow the Psi'ol to know. It explains why they are so gaurded and might be another reason they are researching Magi-Tech and trying to adapt their own facilities to produce it. We know it's possible to travel through Lydus using magic, IE the Interdimensional Pirates otherwise known as the Telks. And if not magically we're sure Delurans have something at that hidden base of theirs and we know the Miritans use a Stargate-like tunneling system. I mean it wouldn't surprise me if the scouts who are always out in the jungle the most are in fact Vishmital. They need to gather research and if possible trade,salvage or if necessary steal the tech to help the Empire survive. Whoa they are better heroes than the Isolon Fist for that alone I think.

Ravishing Vixen Riding a Vishmital War Mech...Which makes FF1's look Whimpy~ wrote:

Though if these ships are hidden you might need to think of a reasonable location to hide big ships in the jungle jedi. I can help with defenses and what not to detter predators or other things and things besides the Islon eye method or similar but I will say it's going to be tough.

The jungle is VAST! XD I need to think of a place? I can think of ten! Heck don't even have to use the jungle if I want since we got many other biomes just as huge and unpopulated. Ofcourse the real questions is what's the priority for recovering a Vishie craft and cause they are gene coded would one worry about salvaging one? Likely most of the systems are either booby trapped or are worthless without some key piece of tech or worse....has a AI who will jelously defend the ship even it's crew are dead. O_O; Though I must say they do sound like a fun alternative to the organic sub areas we see. I'd love to see a Vishie Cruiser or something that was in well known and dangerous area but had been there so long it practically looked like a ruin. Some techy ruins would be a new thing for Felarya since tech doesn't have that high pressence in the wild much.

Ravishing Vixens Equiped with a Vishie Pred Buster Cannon wrote:

They were never thoroughly organized to begin with. Lets see if we can help out karbo with that!

XD Aye! Since rank is a part of nearly every Vishimital except maybe science and some other areas but then again....wouldn't they have their own ranking in Vish? Like Doctor being Dura'ika or something wheras Assistant would be something else.

Good ideas.  I like the concept of faintly bio-luminescent eyes; why not go for distinct patterns of bio-luminescence within the eyes?  The patterns would make the most sense around the edges of the irises to avoid blinding themselves.

As for the Vishmital ships, I've got a few ideas:

• The reason they're stuck on Felarya is because of the general dimensional instability; not only did that wreck their drives on arrival, but it's almost guaranteed that trying to jump out of Felarya is going to wreck them again, along with either not jumping the ship at all, jumping the ship to somewhere else in Felarya, or just stick them someplace nearby in the dimensional void.  In short, the various dimensional gates (Negav and Ur-Sagol being the most used) are their only way on or off of the planet; hence one of the major reasons they set up shop in Negav.
  
• Why should there just be two ships?  Multiple battle groups could be stranded on Felarya, followed by a (probably small-ish) colony fleet.  The battle groups would all be based around a single large combat mothership, analogous to a modern-day supercarrier, and contain a variety of support vessels of smaller sizes.  These groups could be landed pretty much anywhere that isn't stupidly dangerous; as warships, they're way too big to fear even the largest leviathans (the modern-day Ford-class supercarriers are over a thousand feet long, and these would have to be larger by an order of magnitude).  Given the Vishmital's history of colonization, these ships would probably be capable of landing on most solid terrains and deploying into fortress FOBs, probably after glassing whatever used to be in their landing spot.  Larger support ships might be able to do the same, deploying into either standalone outposts or additions to the mothership's base.  I'd actually think the jungle would be a relatively poor place for them; they'd be too large to hide anyway, and the foliage would kill sensor ranges.  Plains or more mountainous regions would be better places to land; they might be more visible, but they could also be kept well outside the Isolon Fist's area of operations relatively easily.  The Navroze Mountains, for example, would be a good place to put one.
  
• As for the colony ships, they'd probably be a lot less well-defended; I would expect them to settle in safer areas, as well as near already established battle fleet motherships.  I would expect these ships to also be capable of deploying upon landing into foundries, research labs, habitation modules, and transportation hubs.  For both the battle fleet and colony fleet, I'd say it likely that the motherships simply aren't designed to operate as mobile ships planetside for long periods, but the smaller support ships would be well-capable, allowing for patrols and some shuttling of people around (escorted by fighters, of course).
  
• As for the actual defenses: battle mothership FOBs have access to most, if not all, of the weapons the ship had pre-deployment: I'd expect the actual mothership to have a large amount of point-defense lasers and some missiles, and probably the requisite wave motion gun (though the latter would also be the most likely to not work in a deployed base configuration), but the actual firepower would be in strike craft; the smaller of these can remain airborne on patrols or deploy from the FOB as needed whenever a predator pops up, while the larger of these would deploy around the mothership.  I'd expect these strike ships to primarily use hypervelocity kinetic weapons or high-yield missiles as their primary weapons, to allow them to punch through enemy defenses, with laser secondary and point-defense weapons.  (In general, I'm a fan of lasers as smaller weapons, switching over to kinetics for larger scales.)  The colony ships would be nowhere near as well-armed, though the colony fleets would probably have some of those deployable escort ships for protection.  Given that the battle fleet arrived first, I'd expect the majority of colony ships to deploy around a battle mothership to take advantage of its defensive umbrella.
  

AI would be a rather interesting thing to give the Vishmitals; perhaps, given the computational complexity for an AI that's both Turing-grade and capable of controlling something complex enough that it's actually worthwhile to have a Turing-grade AI do it, the sentient AIs would be limited to large structures and ships.  Most of the sentient AIs on Felarya would be the shipboard AIs of the motherships, so those would already be mature, while the AI at the abandoned outpost is Felarya-born (Vishmital AI cyberpsychiatrists may have yet to determine if this was an isolated event or if the magic on Felarya causes all native AIs to be quirky). Meanwhile, small tech only gets basic AI, though with modular networking capabilities; if you're well-off enough to have multiple personal devices with AI, they'll network together and you'll have an AI at least interesting to interact with.

Them Gamma Ray wrote:

Why should there just be two ships? Multiple battle groups could be stranded on Felarya, followed by a (probably small-ish) colony fleet. The battle groups would all be based around a single large combat mothership, analogous to a modern-day supercarrier, and contain a variety of support vessels of smaller sizes. These groups could be landed pretty much anywhere that isn't stupidly dangerous; as warships, they're way too big to fear even the largest leviathans (the modern-day Ford-class supercarriers are over a thousand feet long, and these would have to be larger by an order of magnitude). Given the Vishmital's history of colonization, these ships would probably be capable of landing on most solid terrains and deploying into fortress FOBs, probably after glassing whatever used to be in their landing spot. Larger support ships might be able to do the same, deploying into either standalone outposts or additions to the mothership's base. I'd actually think the jungle would be a relatively poor place for them; they'd be too large to hide anyway, and the foliage would kill sensor ranges. Plains or more mountainous regions would be better places to land; they might be more visible, but they could also be kept well outside the Isolon Fist's area of operations relatively easily. The Navroze Mountains, for example, would be a good place to put one.

Who said they're just battle groups, remember, they're all refugees till they get together, when ever and how ever that is. It will be a mixed group for the most part. where they have few ships designated as battle ready ships. A few of colonization and exploration. The rest fitting multiroles of both sides but aren't exactly the best for either. Kind of like a federation ship from startrek. Also these sizes and calculation will take time to plan for each one if we're going to go that far into their navy and fleet. I actually expect these ships to be bigger than ford classes 500 meters but again that'll take some time and planning, talking to each other outside this to see where we get. I do like your idea however that a support ship or a ship is capable of deploying FOBS Also those mountains would be awesome! But as said. I'd like the set up that the first fleet to be encountered by the magiocrats was a military fleet followed by the support civil fleet afterwards. As far as multiple groups. That's the Idea i would like everyone to think when their fleet got scattered and that they're actively trying to find each other in all this mess but as felarya is huge, that's more difficult said then done. Those surprises we will keep to ourselves and Karbo's discretion, don't want to reveal everything at once now do we?

The Gamma ray wrote:

As for the colony ships, they'd probably be a lot less well-defended; I would expect them to settle in safer areas, as well as near already established battle fleet motherships. I would expect these ships to also be capable of deploying upon landing into foundries, research labs, habitation modules, and transportation hubs. For both the battle fleet and colony fleet, I'd say it likely that the motherships simply aren't designed to operate as mobile ships planetside for long periods, but the smaller support ships would be well-capable, allowing for patrols and some shuttling of people around (escorted by fighters, of course).

Roger that, like the idea.

The Gamma Ray wrote:

As for the actual defenses: battle mothership FOBs have access to most, if not all, of the weapons the ship had pre-deployment: I'd expect the actual mothership to have a large amount of point-defense lasers and some missiles, and probably the requisite wave motion gun (though the latter would also be the most likely to not work in a deployed base configuration), but the actual firepower would be in strike craft; the smaller of these can remain airborne on patrols or deploy from the FOB as needed whenever a predator pops up, while the larger of these would deploy around the mothership. I'd expect these strike ships to primarily use hypervelocity kinetic weapons or high-yield missiles as their primary weapons, to allow them to punch through enemy defenses, with laser secondary and point-defense weapons. (In general, I'm a fan of lasers as smaller weapons, switching over to kinetics for larger scales.) The colony ships would be nowhere near as well-armed, though the colony fleets would probably have some of those deployable escort ships for protection. Given that the battle fleet arrived first, I'd expect the majority of colony ships to deploy around a battle mothership to take advantage of its defensive umbrella.

I like this organization, I like it a lot. However to help you and jedi get the scope of the idea of how i envisioned the fleet. This first and second wave fleet that hit negav is actually a smaller fraction of a much larger fleet. Haphazardly by incident scattered through out felarya, it's multi dimensional connections and the void. What your seeing is a piece of a much larger civilization on this felaryan continent. And with their almost natural sense of unity it can lead to some interesting things happening to farther away places. Places that authors can play around more with, yet have a familiarity with a sci-fi race interact with others. Sound solid? If it does awesome, if it doesn't, then we'll fix out the kinks and add more to it. But that's how I envisioned the tragedy of the vishtmials. Their planet and system that were being conquered by a yet to be made entity wasn't killing them instantly, they were running, and in their desperate hour they built a massive flotilla to colonize elsewhere to preserve their people and empire but happening to mass jump to felarya. Intentional or by accident made their drives go out of whack and have them go all over the place. Leading to the vishmitals we know now to negav with a very important general and maybe important civilian authorities if karbo is okay with that. Expeditionary, daring, yet ignorant in their meta goal and naive to the harshness of felarya to see if they can unify their empire again. Sound cool?

The Gamma Ray wrote:

AI would be a rather interesting thing to give the Vishmitals; perhaps, given the computational complexity for an AI that's both Turing-grade and capable of controlling something complex enough that it's actually worthwhile to have a Turing-grade AI do it, the sentient AIs would be limited to large structures and ships. Most of the sentient AIs on Felarya would be the shipboard AIs of the motherships, so those would already be mature, while the AI at the abandoned outpost is Felarya-born (Vishmital AI cyberpsychiatrists may have yet to determine if this was an isolated event or if the magic on Felarya causes all native AIs to be quirky). Meanwhile, small tech only gets basic AI, though with modular networking capabilities; if you're well-off enough to have multiple personal devices with AI, they'll network together and you'll have an AI at least interesting to interact with.

Like the sound of that. Your thoughts Jedi?

ravaging vixen wrote:

I like this organization, I like it a lot. However to help you and jedi get the scope of the idea of how i envisioned the fleet. This first and second wave fleet that hit negav is actually a smaller fraction of a much larger fleet. Haphazardly by incident scattered through out felarya, it's multi dimensional connections and the void. What your seeing is a piece of a much larger civilization on this felaryan continent. And with their almost natural sense of unity it can lead to some interesting things happening to farther away places. Places that authors can play around more with, yet have a familiarity with a sci-fi race interact with others. Sound solid? If it does awesome, if it doesn't, then we'll fix out the kinks and add more to it. But that's how I envisioned the tragedy of the vishtmials. Their planet and system that were being conquered by a yet to be made entity wasn't killing them instantly, they were running, and in their desperate hour they built a massive flotilla to colonize elsewhere to preserve their people and empire but happening to mass jump to felarya. Intentional or by accident made their drives go out of whack and have them go all over the place. Leading to the vishmitals we know now to negav with a very important general and maybe important civilian authorities if karbo is okay with that. Expeditionary, daring, yet ignorant in their meta goal and naive to the harshness of felarya to see if they can unify their empire again. Sound cool?

That's definitely an interesting spin to put on things; did this entity go around, wiping out most of the further-out Vishmital planets first, or did it make a beeline for their home planet, leaving the majority of their empire missing a center? Also, that big a flotilla's going to have some major effects on Felarya; even with massive casualties prior, if we go by modern developed nation populations, we're looking at a total population of at least a billion aboard at least a thousand motherships and an order of magnitude more support ships. If all that wound up on Felarya, they'd actually be in a pretty good position to outright take over the planet, and it would be easy for them to regroup into "mini"-fleets of dozens of motherships each unless Felarya itself is gas giant huge. That said, we don't even have a full map of one continent of Felarya; perhaps the Vishmitals have a much larger presence on other continents, such as the one occasionally mentioned across the Topazial Sea?

I would honestly think it would be better, at least in terms of not making the Vishmitals the largest Felaryan superpower (despite how attractive that is) if only a fraction of the giant exodus fleet got trapped by Felarya. Perhaps, being chased, the fleet tried to cut a shorter route (or possibly even slingshot) too close to Felarya, and some of them got too close. I'm thinking of Felarya as something between a dimensional gravity well and a dimensional storm; a lot of instabilities combined with a general attraction force makes it easy enough to get into but, short of the powerful Sagolian dimensional gates and similar magic, hard and dangerous to escape from.

On the ships: has anyone done much thinking about Vishmital ship shape language and general layout? How about the general aesthetic of Vishmital tech? I'd expect sleek, curved inner plates, with gaps showing pistons, heat sinks, and cables where extra flexibility or exposure is needed, underneath less-covering angular reinforced armor on military units; ideally, this could be done to keep a general sense of continuity between civilian and military tech, while keeping the two distinct in appearance.

Gamma wrote:

That's definitely an interesting spin to put on things; did this entity go around, wiping out most of the further-out Vishmital planets first, or did it make a beeline for their home planet, leaving the majority of their empire missing a center? Also, that big a flotilla's going to have some major effects on Felarya; even with massive casualties prior, if we go by modern developed nation populations, we're looking at a total population of at least a billion aboard at least a thousand motherships and an order of magnitude more support ships. If all that wound up on Felarya, they'd actually be in a pretty good position to outright take over the planet, and it would be easy for them to regroup into "mini"-fleets of dozens of motherships each unless Felarya itself is gas giant huge. That said, we don't even have a full map of one continent of Felarya; perhaps the Vishmitals have a much larger presence on other continents, such as the one occasionally mentioned across the Topazial Sea?

Felarya is supposed to be a very large Plane. Bigger than if you were to grab jupiter and flatten out it's landmass. It's nothing in size to compare to a planet. The map itself is only a small fraction of what it actually is according to the wiki. So to damper down of the effects you imagined, i'll talk about 2 major factors that felarya has to stop modernize growth. One is that it's a deathworld. Meaning you don't want to make a large presence on their because the enviroment or some supra force (the guardians) whittle down what ever expansion you intend to make and that the land itself isn't exactly...well stable to colonization It's a large variety. The second is that felarya has that vanishing land trait, and it's quite random. A piece of land after a few hours to 1000 or maybe a little more years will swap out with just another. So no they wouldn't be in good position because the place is just two big, however as you said later. They might be more concentrated in some other places but being scattered all over a very large plane doesn't give you more chances to organize yourself to take over a planet.  1 trillion might increase your chances on that scenario, only slighty. To say though there might be a vishmital hub of either a planet they took over or a spot they colonized that might have a large pocket of the former fleet. As far as it being a continent away, it's a big who knows because we don't know how close or far away everything is. So that's why i implied it's vast and that's they will have a difficult time contacting each other. If they contact even.

Gamma wrote:

I would honestly think it would be better, at least in terms of not making the Vishmitals the largest Felaryan superpower (despite how attractive that is) if only a fraction of the giant exodus fleet got trapped by Felarya. Perhaps, being chased, the fleet tried to cut a shorter route (or possibly even slingshot) too close to Felarya, and some of them got too close. I'm thinking of Felarya as something between a dimensional gravity well and a dimensional storm; a lot of instabilities combined with a general attraction force makes it easy enough to get into but, short of the powerful Sagolian dimensional gates and similar magic, hard and dangerous to escape from.

I think that's solid, But i'm not fully convinced of that idea. Given as i stated above, and other reasons why. If i wanted people to think that felarya is a wild frontier, i want them to get the sense that even big super organization are not safe to put civilization on this large plane of planes. It's very exploratory to the idea of magic and science-fiction combined to make an interesting world. So i'd would rather like the Vishmital to be more scattered then what your offering (try to persuade me more is what i'm asking). My thinking is if only a fraction got out then they still have the chance to contact the rest then they can surely take over something if they wanted to. But again, they're smart, felarya isn't worth taking over and making empires on, just mining and interesting elements/developments to find. It's what the rest of the sci-fi guys are doing. On the known continent anyways.

Gamma wrote:

On the ships: has anyone done much thinking about Vishmital ship shape language and general layout? How about the general aesthetic of Vishmital tech? I'd expect sleek, curved inner plates, with gaps showing pistons, heat sinks, and cables where extra flexibility or exposure is needed, underneath less-covering angular reinforced armor on military units; ideally, this could be done to keep a general sense of continuity between civilian and military tech, while keeping the two distinct in appearance.

You know guys. if you guys are trying to image something. Grabbing reference pictures from other similar designs and concepts. Isn't a bad idea. Not that you explained it bad or anything gamma, i'm just having a hard time visualizing this with just words. I think you should do some digging in pics and try to show and explain the best elements of those of what a vishmital ship or piece of hardware would look like.

That's a lot, and I mean a lot. Let me condense before I join in, it's kinda hard to follow otherwise.

*cracks fingers*

Gamma wrote:

So what makes the Vishmital different from any of the other several technologically advanced groups of humans, and how can we expand on that?

On the races that make up the empire:

I hadn't thought of that, but it does seem like a possibility. A certain elfness would surely make them look more special.

Vishmitali appearance:

I don't think anything with bioluminiscent eyes actually sees in the dark. Though, if you wanted to, you could have their eyes shine in a kind of light only they can see- if they could see in UV, then only mantis shrimp and bees would find out they're vishmitals by their eyes. You could go a bit further over the top, and say that since they emit UV and they can see UV, nothing's ever completely dark for them (though they would, of course, be incapable of seeing colors in the dark).

On their race loyalty:

That's a good point, Jedi. The man was a rebel- and apparently, not a rebel against mind control. So we know that culture is at least a vital part of it.

On cybernetic limbs:

Err... while Negavians might have a distrust of vish tech, they can't have a distrust for ALL tech. If any Negavian knows cyberlimbs exist outside of the vishmitali, they should know cyberlimbs can be trusted. There's gotta be something about vish tech, if they're gonna distrust it.
I'm picturing things exactly the opposite way to you, though, Jedi. I think Vishmitali who got their replacements before the fall of the empire should have the best limbs. The Vish are in decline: now that they're out of good cyberlimbs, they should be scraping the bottom of the barrel, using old models simply because their supply of new ones is gone, repairing the good ones after damage that would usually merit replacing them, and heck, even cannibalizing their dead for cyberlimbs they aren't using anymore.
It's not very easy to improve your engineering while on the run, and if they've had a giant millenial empire, they should have no need for a last stretch of R&D while on the run. Their stuff should be about as good as it was going to get before they started running, and could only go down from there.

On genetic keys and tech sharing:

Actually, Vix, I don't know if the Vish would want to trade tech. If it's one of their few advantages, they might prefer hogging it, and now that they've lost most of their industry, they should become extreme hoarders. I think Vishmitali should keep large caches of the stuff that requires white rooms to make, such as circuit boards, and work really hard on how to reutilize their existing, now impossible to replicate, stuff.
I do agree with genetic keys or other biometrics, though. It fits, though they should eventually lose the ability to make more biometrics.

on their supply lines for advanced tech:

Well... while I want the Vishmitali to have lost the ability to make tech, I recognize they've had 200 years to set up their industry anew. I've got no idea how much of their technology should they've been able to get back, though. Apparently, it's in the Magiocrats' best interest to keep 'em down.

On Vish history:

In hindsight, it would make sense if they arrived in ships. If they arrived through the gate, the Magiocrats would've been able to stop the inmigration whenever they wanted. So... good call, guys.

On tech, ship and otherwise:

I'm not sure it's worthwhile to go into what powers their stuff, but I'd rather they didn't have giant motherships just close by. Just a personal preference.

On AI:

That's a fun idea, Jedi. And nice plot hook, Vix.
I like that idea, Gamma. Multiple basic AIs getting all networky together while they aren't handling the dishwasher, the microwave, your cellphone and so on.

On the Vish's effects on Felarya as a whole:

Past a certain point, actually, I don't think the dangers of a deathworld matter anymore... if Felarya had critters capable of challenging and fighting and winning against a ship fleet, then everyone else could just give up and go home already. I'd rather go with that they just aren't exactly fighting fit, and they know it.

Stabs is Sharp wrote:

I don't think anything with bioluminiscent eyes actually sees in the dark. Though, if you wanted to, you could have their eyes shine in a kind of light only they can see- if they could see in UV, then only mantis shrimp and bees would find out they're vishmitals by their eyes. You could go a bit further over the top, and say that since they emit UV and they can see UV, nothing's ever completely dark for them (though they would, of course, be incapable of seeing colors in the dark).

I like this. This could even, if one says they can project from their eyes as well as read UV, posit that Vishies leave special messages for each other or lead to Psi'ol suspsecting they could pass messages just with their eyes. XD If they weren't paranoid before? They are now.

Stabs for 300 Damage wrote:

That's a good point, Jedi. The man was a rebel- and apparently, not a rebel against mind control. So we know that culture is at least a vital part of it.

Thank you for confirming I didn't imagine that. ^o^ I re-read like last year all through the images I had trying to find that guy and it tookme forever to cause they were just image scans and thus my PC had scrambled them all up. @-@ I had thought I had just made it up and was going to write an article on Rebel Vishimital as a sub-faction but thankfully I did finally find the image though this helps re-re-enforce that in my mind.

Stabs from behind for X2 bonus damage wrote:

Err... while Negavians might have a distrust of vish tech, they can't have a distrust for ALL tech. If any Negavian knows cyberlimbs exist outside of the vishmitali, they should know cyberlimbs can be trusted. There's gotta be something about vish tech, if they're gonna distrust it.
I'm picturing things exactly the opposite way to you, though, Jedi. I think Vishmitali who got their replacements before the fall of the empire should have the best limbs. The Vish are in decline: now that they're out of good cyberlimbs, they should be scraping the bottom of the barrel, using old models simply because their supply of new ones is gone, repairing the good ones after damage that would usually merit replacing them, and heck, even cannibalizing their dead for cyberlimbs they aren't using anymore.

Firstly Vishmitali as their race is incorrect pronunciation. It's Vishmital. Vishmitali are a type of bladed spear that uses telescopic tech to unfold and be ready for action.

Also I have feeling Psi'ol are just as a curious about the Vishmital's tech as the Vishies are about Psi's ease of magic control but I believe wheras magic study is encouraged amoung Vishmitals but Psi's are likely only to study Vishie tech in secret if the majority of Psi's like to think they are superior to Vishies. Can't very well say, "Bah! The Vishmitals are cowardly and weak. They don't have sheer power and wisdom! That's why the depend on machines. Hmpf!", and then turn around and show everyone your Vishimital egineered cyber arm. Better draft somenbody to make a steampunk Tessium arm that works closely to a Vishi arm and show you are the superior faction as I believe Psi'ols often do.

Stabs and Slices wrote:

Actually, Vix, I don't know if the Vish would want to trade tech. If it's one of their few advantages, they might prefer hogging it

This sounds good in theory but what else can you trade on in order to keep your place at the diplomatic table and ensure that you can get a piece of the pie so to say? I mean Vishmital are in Negav and haven't been chased out I think only because they have something to bring t table every now and then like the Anti-Pred Cannons and Rockets that augment the wall's defenses. I mean you could say they use that as a bargaining chip, loosely threatening that the system could go haywire if not maintained by a Vishmital Engineer however that only works so long before Psi-Negavians figure out how to use the tech. I mean they aren't all backwards powerhungry mages bent on totall control of the city, some are in fact just powerhungry! =P

Now while I say that tech should be shared I ain't talking about giving out Railguns and Plasma bombs for everyone. Only those who can pay and agree to support the empire. Ooh! In fact it would be beneficial to TURN some Psi's towards the cause of the Empire using political marriage and dangling tech in front of power grubbing mages whom in turn would introduce some of the naturally gifted Psi magic into the Vishmital bloodlines and if the genetic marker is passed on to the children this ensures Psi'ol spies or at the very least secret splinter Vish-Psi for the day when the Vishies may have not choice but to save the city from Lesona's tyrannical and insane grip. For the Glory of the Empire of Course. >=J

Stabs through your Armor wrote:

I'm not sure it's worthwhile to go into what powers their stuff, but I'd rather they didn't have giant motherships just close by. Just a personal preference.

Agree'd. Especially since Vishi tech likely is likely powered by a variety of types of tech depending on the age. ^^; I mean look at the two known types folding-tech with micro power cells and hot riffles which fire Masers.

Stabs Multiple Times wrote:

That's a fun idea, Jedi.

XD Thanks I thought so. I think it should be at least suggested in the wiki.

On the topic of trading, I see both sides; if they want to trade, tech is probably the best thing Vismitals can trade, besides perhaps raw materials they don't need but can get decently easily (i.e. wood).  I could see two ways about this:

• The Vishmital government has declared a small amount of older, simpler, and/or less dangerous technology as free game for trade, with more powerful stuff restricted and tracked, with the really dangerous stuff being Vishmital-only.  For example, I'd think a vishmitali pike would be in the first category, a laser rifle in the second, and anything larger (wide-bore anti-vehicle masers or outright warmechs) being the third category.
  
• Vishmitals use their knowledge of tech to create entirely new technology for trade.  There might be some compatibilities, to the point where the same production lines could make both normal and trade tech, but the trade stuff has some of the more powerful or maintenance-heavy components removed, if not outright replaced with Felarya-native components.  I've been thinking of working something like this into one of my OCs; using computer-aided designs and industrial manufacturing methods to make precision clockwork parts for magically-animated sundry products; the simple enchantments combined with the cheap physical parts would allow undercutting of Psi'ol artificers.
  

As for pictures: I can't find much on the usual places, but here's some to consider (spoiler for size):

Mecha:

As for spaceships, I can't find any good images of deployable ships.  I was thinking ships that look sleek when in ship mode, and when deployed look more like crouched predators (the animal kind) ready to pounce; lines that flow well and show contained power.  That said, I'm partial to this one's style, though the exact ship doesn't quite fit:

Spoiled FOR THE REPUBLIC!:

This has a modern/futuristic style combining stealth-inspired non-square angles, large flat areas with blended edges for shallow angles and sharp edges for acute angles, with panels having complex polygonal shapes.  It actually works decently well with the spider mech.

Anyone else want to contribute their own thoughts, or even better, own artwork?  I also hear we've got a few existing pictures of Vishmital stuff (mostly a single character); will Karbo allow a posting of those excerpts so we know what we're starting with?

Gamma Beta Sigma wrote:

As for spaceships, I can't find any good images of deployable ships. I was thinking ships that look sleek when in ship mode, and when deployed look more like crouched predators (the animal kind) ready to pounce; lines that flow well and show contained power. That said, I'm partial to this one's style, though the exact ship doesn't quite fit:

Ah not bad but I'd more think SG1's Asgard race:

http://www.deviantart.com/art/oneill-class-80428579

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Stargate-Asgard-Jotunn-Class-original-design-329653322

Gamma Beta Sigma wrote:

Vishmitals use their knowledge of tech to create entirely new technology for trade. There might be some compatibilities, to the point where the same production lines could make both normal and trade tech, but the trade stuff has some of the more powerful or maintenance-heavy components removed, if not outright replaced with Felarya-native components. I've been thinking of working something like this into one of my OCs; using computer-aided designs and industrial manufacturing methods to make precision clockwork parts for magically-animated sundry products; the simple enchantments combined with the cheap physical parts would allow undercutting of Psi'ol artificers.

Hmm I like this idea. It would not weaken the Empire and would in fact ensure that Vishies keep the best stuff for themselves and it subtlely would tick Magiocrats off XD I love it! Good idea, Gamma!

Stabs said wrote:

Err... while Negavians might have a distrust of vish tech, they can't have a distrust for ALL tech. If any Negavian knows cyberlimbs exist outside of the vishmitali, they should know cyberlimbs can be trusted. There's gotta be something about vish tech, if they're gonna distrust it.
I'm picturing things exactly the opposite way to you, though, Jedi. I think Vishmitali who got their replacements before the fall of the empire should have the best limbs. The Vish are in decline: now that they're out of good cyberlimbs, they should be scraping the bottom of the barrel, using old models simply because their supply of new ones is gone, repairing the good ones after damage that would usually merit replacing them, and heck, even cannibalizing their dead for cyberlimbs they aren't using anymore.
It's not very easy to improve your engineering while on the run, and if they've had a giant millenial empire, they should have no need for a last stretch of R&D while on the run. Their stuff should be about as good as it was going to get before they started running, and could only go down from there.

Then...

Stabs wrote:

Actually, Vix, I don't know if the Vish would want to trade tech. If it's one of their few advantages, they might prefer hogging it, and now that they've lost most of their industry, they should become extreme hoarders. I think Vishmitali should keep large caches of the stuff that requires white rooms to make, such as circuit boards, and work really hard on how to reutilize their existing, now impossible to replicate, stuff.
I do agree with genetic keys or other biometrics, though. It fits, though they should eventually lose the ability to make more biometrics.

Have you taken the thought that their industry of what little or better to say, “not as prominent” and “efficient”, industry they once had is on their ships. Again i keep quoting people on this, but you can make a industry in a home, it’s possible...Ships and futuristic ones at that where the people have set up camp outside them. Even more so. I think your reservations are on how much of an export and output can they do with this industry. I’m with you on saying It won’t be terribly fast but fast enough where they can make huge turrets (Or maybe deploy) on the walls of negav. I’m with jedi though, The kind of tech they would be offering or trading is hand me downs or ones made by third party companies that is quite interested in their tech to try their own gimmick at it while backed (Or even maybe not backed, just affiliated) with vishmital tech to make them more pleasing.

Stabs wrote:

Well... while I want the Vishmitali to have lost the ability to make tech, I recognize they've had 200 years to set up their industry anew. I've got no idea how much of their technology should they've been able to get back, though. Apparently, it's in the Magiocrats' best interest to keep 'em down.

Get back? I really don’t know what you mean. It’s not like the vishmitals were on the high run like we all been saying, They had time to pack up and leave their galaxy while foreshadowing their world and empire’s inevitable destruction. So they wouldn’t have lost much unless like How i envisioned it, their best tech and to requisition their tech efficiently between each other is on other ships. Other ships that are not present in/near negav or on the continent. That’s the best way i could think of having a sort of “dark age” of their society and people in general for keeping a stable income of their best tech. Then again they had 200 years to start a profitable (enough) industry most likely from their ships or whatever parts of negav they have a hold on while still having the image of being a fledgling but politically intimidating faction.

Stabs wrote:

Past a certain point, actually, I don't think the dangers of a deathworld matter anymore... if Felarya had critters capable of challenging and fighting and winning against a ship fleet, then everyone else could just give up and go home already. I'd rather go with that they just aren't exactly fighting fit, and they know it.

I wouldn’t say “give up.” It heavily depends upon the instance. Hypothetically and in scenario. Some factions could have just got overrun while setting up, others may have just decided this is a good place to get hard resources and limit their supplies and people they send to a reasonable amount. Now if we’re talking about a really large fleet in one spot and in one presence, then that seems more likely that they won’t be stopped by the forces of freakish nature unless another force of equal measure shows up or a guardian.

To Gamma:
Cool, I think that combination of both bullet points would prove sufficient in how they want to win the hearts of the city while secretly or intentionally looking themselves to be the better benefactor

Also your mecha picture links are broken, i can’t see any of them xD

As for the ship and the concept behind it, I like it sofar. Not so much of the it looks like an animal when deployed but it’s angular ness and open carry. Though i’m imagining this is just one of the deployable ships a big ship how i imagined would be 500+ meters in length (which no, isn’t that huge.)

If there’s existing picture of vishmitals of past iterations, post them. However if they don’t fit with how we’d like them to be now, then reconsider posting and send in a couple of request to make a couple of sketches , it’s what i’m going to do.

These are some Vishmital combat vehicle designs I drew a while back at the request of ravaging vixen; uploaded here as requested by Gamma.

After some discussion in chat, we're narrowing down on the Bastion and the second two mech pictures.  With that in mind, here's the second round.  I'm trying to focus on what we like about the mecha designs; angularity, general busy-ness versus clean designs, form factor (sleek or bulky), and shape language.

From Mecha-Zone:

And one more humanoid::

Some elements that I like that appear across multiple pictures include partially-covered pistols and those cylindircal details that have lines running across them. I also like angled or chevron venting.

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

These are some Vishmital combat vehicle designs I drew a while back at the request of ravaging vixen; uploaded here as requested by Gamma.

I like these designs. ^_^ They seem practical and yet not quite suited for Felarya. I'm guessing this is an example of non-jungle adapted tech from the Empire's mid years?