Vanags

S-Guy wrote:

Thats kinda like how I judge my art. Sure, when you're in fourth grade and you draw something it looks amazingly brilliant, but when you go back and look at it years later and you notice that the head isn't even touching the neck, you wonder what they put in the school lunches back then.

Yep. Distance and time gives you perspective.

The Griffon hardly look like most well-known griffons in Felarya. It is a 50' tall, quadrupedal bird of prey. It has the head of a bald eagle, as well as the front of the chest and the front legs. The eyes are actually those of an owl. The wings are those of a condor in term of wing span, though shaped like those of a falcon. The body is that of a buzzard, as well as the rear legs. The tail, strangely enough, is the tail of a peacock. They also have a long, black mane running from the back of the head, all along the back to near the rear legs.

Griffons are wild animals, very aggressive, and very dangerous. Althought not numerous in general in Felarya, they are mostly concentrated around arid regions like deserts, canyons, and mountains. Griffons are very territorial and protective of their broods. They are social creatures that lives in broods. The young ones are being fed by their parents, which can be literally anything. Griffons are essentially carnivorous, hunting down and devoring large preys, in particular nagas and mermaids. From time to time, they eat fruits, but mostly feed the half-disgested fruit to their broods be regurgitating it. On occasion, a griffon will feed on small prey like a human-sized elf.

Griffons possess formidable strength and the sharpness of their talons is notorious for being cleave through stone with ease. They are weak against magic, but their peacock tail is something else. When opened, anybody who stares at it will consume its mana instantly. It generally doesn't consume all of its mana, and it only work once, which means the griffon must close the tail and re-open it. They don't actively hunt magic using creatures, they hunt pretty much everything.

While non-sentient, griffons are quite intelligent, albeit very feral. They usually travel through the air for long distances, but will travel on foot for short distances. It's very rare to find a griffon in a jungle or forest. They usually are there looking for preys to bring back to their brood, or for water sources. Griffons will try to pick up fight against any creatures they see. They often fight with Harpies for food, sometime hunt harpies for food. In Harpy language, griffon means an asshole who pick up fights for something like food (can be anything, not necessarily food) with anybody. Griffons usually fight with their claws or beak, but also possess limited wind magic. They can't vacuum or blow people, but can create strong winds, sometimes small whirlwinds by flapping their wings. They mostly use it for defense, but also uses it to hunt. Griffons always kill their prey, and eat them after tearing them to pieces. For small preys, the swallow them whole and alive. If a griffon knows they can't win a fight, it will retreat.




Hope this is better this time....

That is somewhat better, yes. You dropped the bit about flapping their wings to create gale force winds, which I was going to mention previously; I wasn't fond of that idea (too overused). It is still somewhat too classical for my tastes- this isn't a knock against the idea, I'm just mentioning it. Also, the mix of traits from different avian species is kind of odd; it makes it difficult to picture.

You have some good, and fairly unique elements in there, but they're kind of muddled up with generic ones common to all Griffons. I really like the magic-absorbing peacock tail; that's the sort of creative twist that should be emphasized. If you really need to have a classical-style (in appearance) Griffon, there's still ways to do it without falling back on the cliche.

This latest version of yours has given me some ideas. I'm going to mull over them for a bit, and then post them in a more coherent form.

If you are a bit calm, I will say just this things.
It's better but they are some things to change like the name which sounds too much generic.
But it's good begining

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

S-Guy wrote:

Thats kinda like how I judge my art. Sure, when you're in fourth grade and you draw something it looks amazingly brilliant, but when you go back and look at it years later and you notice that the head isn't even touching the neck, you wonder what they put in the school lunches back then.

Yep. Distance and time gives you perspective.

I'm not kidding, I dug up my old sketchbook and I swear it almost gave me a heart attack!
It was honestly, really creepy. "I thought that looked good?!" "My friends thought that looked good?!"

Changed the name to Vanags

Unusual name.

Okay, so after some thought, I've added a bit more development and some sexual dimorphism to your later version of these things.

"The Vanags Gryphon is a Felaryan predator first documented by naturalist Aleksandrs Vanags, and named for its similiarities to off-world creatures called Griffins. Although the male and female were initially believed to be two seperate species, close observation (under life-threatening conditions) revealed the drastically different creatures to be of the same species.

The male Vanags is the larger of the species, ranging from 50-60 feet in height when fully grown. It is a quadrupedal raptor, powerfully built, with a wide wingspan and lightweight but strong bones. Despite its large wings and capacity for flight, the male Vanags Gryphon is a clumsy flier; it typically flies only to move from place to place, or to divebomb prey from above. It is not able to turn easily once in flight, and nimble fliers such as harpies can typically evade one for a while.

Vanags Gryphons possess extremely sharp and durable claws, which when combined with their tremendous strength, can shear through stone and metal easily. Their beaks are also razor-sharp and tough, but typically used to tear flesh from the body of their prey. However, the male Vanags has two unique traits that the female of the species does not possess.

The first is a tuft of long, flexible feathers at the end of its leonine tail, which it can fan out into a bright and colorful display, much like a peacock. Any creature that gazes at the Vanags' feathers will have its mana quickly siphoned into the feathers, which makes the display brighter and more dazzling as a side effect. The naturalist who named the species theorized that the species requires magical energy to reproduce, and that the brightness of the male's plumage plays a role in mating rituals.

It also serves as an excellent distraction when the male hunts with the females, as many opponents will be torn between staring at the male and being caught unaware by the pack tactics of the females, or looking away from the male and making themselves vulnerable to attacks from him.

Secondly, the male Vanags Gryphon is capable of producing a tremendous roar when necessary, that displaces all of the air in front of it and creates a powerful sonic blast. It does not use this ability often, as it takes several minutes before it can produce a second blast... but it typically only takes one blast to floor most opponents. The sheer force of the blast is capable of shattering stone as easily as wood or bone.

A male Vanags Gryphon will typically be encountered alone, or with a small number (3-6) of females accompanying it. All Vanags are voracious, and will eat anything they can bring down... which can include predators larger than themselves, all the way down to human-sized prey.

Although all Vanags are wild, aggressive, and highly territorial, the male Vanags tends to be lazy and boisterious. It will loudly challenge any creature that intrudes upon its territory, and often posture threateningly for a while before attacking. They are very vocal creatures, and can sometimes be heard from up to two miles away, which can sometimes make them easy for explorers to avoid.

The female of the species, however, is another matter entirely..."

There you go. Let me know what you think.

I already had an idea to differentiate the males from the females, I just forgot to add it, I'm forgetful. At first it was the female being slender than males. It's good, but now I don't know how the female look like.

Was just about to post about them.

The female Vanags Gryphon is significantly smaller than the male, typically only reaching 40-55 feet in height for the largest specimens. Although not as powerfully built as the males, they are lithe and far more agile, and armed with the same razor-sharp claws and beak. Like the male, the female has a tuft of feathers at the end of her tail, which can be fanned out. However, the tailfeathers are much shorter, and drab in color; overall, the female Vanags are far less colorful than their male counterparts, which helps them blend into their surroundings better.

The female also lacks the impressive wingspan of the male; the wings of the female Vanags Gryphon are almost vestigal, being very small and not powerful enough to keep it aloft for very long. The females have extremely powerful muscles in their legs, however, and they use their wings to glide, extend the range of their leaps, and to alter their trajectory while in mid-air.

Being pursued by a female (or pack of females) Vanags Gryphon is a harrowing experience, and few live to tell of it- they are capable of bounding over and around virtually any terrain, and launch themselves at prey from various angles. With effort and a running start, they can also manage to fly for very short distances, but it is typically only used as a long-distance means of travel. They are also amazing climbers, and have been known to dive into water in relentless pursuit of prey.

Unlike the male, the female Gryphons are surprisingly non-vocal; they possess excellent eyesight and are capable of spotting small prey from amazing distances... often climbing trees for a better vantage point. They are primarily pack hunters, and seem to use visual cues for communication; a group of female Vanags Gryphons on the prowl hunt in complete silence.

The only exception to this rule is when flushing out prey, or hunting with a male. In the latter case, the females will often use the male as a distraction, diverting attention away from themselves while they manuever into position and bring their prey down via a combined attack. They utilize hit and run tactics very effectively, attacking from one direction and rushing past only for the prey to be hit from another angle. In this manner, a group of Vanags can pose a serious threat to even a Tonorion.

There's more, but I've got to afk for a bit to take care of some things. Will continue later.

I still prefer them living around arid regions.

This race becomes very interesting

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

This race becomes very interesting

Mainly because it's no longer me who's making them.

You should stop to overact, TheQuantumMechanic tries to help you by making some draft about your idea but it's still you who begin the projects of a creature base on the griffons.

This thread is a brainstorming to flesh an idea you start, it's you who have the last word.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I still prefer them living around arid regions.

That's fine. We just change:

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

... often climbing trees for a better vantage point.

to:

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

... often climbing sheer cliffs for a better vantage point.

Easy.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Mainly because it's no longer me who's making them.

Let's not get sidetracked, shall we? You did complain just the other day about lack of community involvement, so why is collaborating with people (the community) suddenly a problem? Everything I posted was just an expansion of your second draft. The only thing I did was try to be more elaborate with ideas you presented.

Like the mana-burning peacock tail; that was interesting and pretty original, so I started to think about what purposes it would serve. It's useless against creatures not heavily dependant on mana, so there should be other reasons for it. Male peacocks and male Birds of Paradise are the colorful, gaudy ones, while the females are typically drab and much less noticeable; I thought adding that would make sense. And for a Felaryan twist, the male is the powerful, obvious threat... but the females are the ones you really ought to be watching out for.

The Vanags not being strong fliers is playing towards their raptor nature- most birds of prey are not very good fliers, because all they really ever do is accelerate towards prey and swerve away from the ground. They really don't spend a whole lot of time in the air aside from that, whereas an Albatross spends much more of its life on the wing. With the females being quadrupedal, really damn fast, excellent climbers, and able to leap incredible distances and glide, actual flight is more or less redundant. Besides, I started to get images in my head of some human, neko, elf, or other humanoid society braving the cliffs to steal Vanags eggs and raise their own. Light cavalry bounding down the side of a cliff and over boulders on female Vanags would be pretty awesome.

Edit: Additionally, most of my additions were intended to add differentiation between these Vanags of yours, and the ubiquitous griffin portrayal we all know and love/loathe. If you don't like it, then just use it as an example and come up with something else. Just be creative about it.

Okay I understand. Some points about Vanags, they are very protective of their eggs and youngs, as well as their territories. I still like the idea of having them fighting Harpies for food, and in Harpy language, vanag means someone who picks up fights with anyone expecting a prize in return. I thought that would be pretty funny.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Some points about Vanags, they are very protective of their eggs and youngs, as well as their territories.

That's cool. I was planning on making another post regarding their eggs and young, and I already worked the territorial bit into my earlier posts. I picture them behaving like a pride of lions in some respects, particularly when it comes to defending their young and their territory.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I still like the idea of having them fighting Harpies for food, and in Harpy language, vanag means someone who picks up fights with anyone expecting a prize in return. I thought that would be pretty funny.

It is. And that's definitely doable, even with the female Vanags being mostly flightless. In fact, I'm picturing some pretty dynamic fights, with them leaping hundreds of feet into the air at a harpy, only for the harpy to dodge, and the Vanag to land on a cliff facing, run up it, and leap back down at the harpy from above. Plus, the male Vanag might not be as nimble a flier as a harpy, but between his mana siphoning ability and the shockwave produced by his roar, Vanags-Harpies battles would be much more complex than just aerial dogfighting.

Heck, now that I think about it, them living in arid regions can actually factor into their lack of flight. More thermal updrafts, which make it easier for them to glide longer distances, and gain altitude through slope soaring. Funny how that works out.

I was also expecting squirmishes between Harpies when both wants the same prey.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I was also expecting squirmishes between Harpies when both wants the same prey.

That's likely to happen often, simply by virtue of Vanags and Harpies living in the same areas and both species being extremely territorial. Territorial predatory species skirmish and steal food from one another all the time in nature, because driving out competitors is a better way of ensuring you'll have a plentiful food supply.

Lions and Hyenas are an excellent example, they're two of the few species of animals that genuinely seem to hate one another, and will attack each other even when food isn't involved. There have even been documented cases of lion prides and hyena clans mounting raids against one another, singling out the leaders and/or cubs of the opposing species. They basically live in a state of open warfare, all the time, and some of the tactics that they use against one another have lead to current theories that they are close to early primate-level intelligence.

The next thing is that Vanags are quite intelligent for non-sentient creatures. It's possible to tame one, but it's extremely difficult. Also, if it feels like he's gonna lose a confrontation, it'll retreat instead of risking getting killled.

Sean Okotami wrote:

The next thing is that Vanags are quite intelligent for non-sentient creatures. It's possible to tame one, but it's extremely difficult. Also, if it feels like he's gonna lose a confrontation, it'll retreat instead of risking getting killled.

*nod* I tried to allude to that by mentioning the advanced tactics that they use. I'll try and state it more plainly when I come up with something about their nesting behavior (doing errands around the house, so I'm only coming back to the computer every so often).

I did try to work the taming into the earlier posts; I do think it would be better to have them tameable only when raised from eggs or young. Generally, trying to tame adult wild animals goes poorly, especially if they are very intelligent.

Plus, it will add an element of danger, since the only way to tame them is to go and steal eggs or fledglings from their nesting grounds, which are hard to get to and fiercely defended. You might want to consider that Vanag eggs might sell for a heavy price at Negav's black market, because they are so difficult to obtain.

Well, I did thought that only from eggs can a Vanag be tamed. Taming a feral Vanag is pretty much is impossible. I never thought about eggs being worth a lot on the black market. That could be good.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Well, I did thought that only from eggs can a Vanag be tamed. Taming a feral Vanag is pretty much is impossible. I never thought about eggs being worth a lot on the black market. That could be good.

*nod* There are some breeds of dogs that people pay (in US Dollars) $25,000-$40,000 for, and I know of at least one breed that can sell for up to 1 million dollars for a purebred. It's not a big stretch to say that something like a trainable Vanag would be extremely valuable to certain people.

Also, perhaps the male Vanags might be more difficult to train than the females, because of their lazier natures and flashy temperament? That's just a suggestion, still thinking about various things.

This is the sort of mental picture I have of Vanag riders (taken from one of my favorite games):

http://www.privateerpress.com/HORDES/gallery/images/skorne/units/74025-praetorian-ferox-box-set.jpg
http://www.privateerpress.com/HORDES/gallery/images/circle/units/72024-tharn-wolf-riders-box-set.jpg

Light, very mobile cavalry, that can bound over any obstacles in their path (including right up the side of a cliff), and who have trained their mounts to fight along with them. Not only would you have to worry about the spears, swords, or arrows of the riders, but the the beaks and claws of the Vanags as well.

Yeah, that kind of work. But, I don't really see males as lazy. Maybe lazier than females, but still rather active nonetheless.

"Lazier than the females" is mostly what I meant. I was thinking along the lines of lion behavior; Male lions don't really do much compared to the lionesses, who handle most of the hunting and nuturing the young. The males do handle a lot of the fighting and deterring threats when it comes to other predators, though.

When it comes to hunting, I kind of see the male Vanag taking a backseat role. He's large and obvious, so at most he makes a lot of noise and draws attention to himself, while the females get their claws dirty. When it comes to fighting off other predators, skirmishes with harpies, or defending their territory, though... that's when the male steps up and takes a front-line leadership role.

In heraldry terms, it kind of flips back and forth between lion léopardé/lion passant (most of the time) and léoparde lionné (when it's time to take care of business).

Ah, okay.