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+6Anime-Junkie Malahite S-Guy GREGOLE TheQuantumMechanic ericnthered123 10 posters | Author | Message |
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ericnthered123 Newbie adventurer
Posts : 75 Join date : 2008-08-09 Age : 35
| Subject: Felarya Effect Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:18 pm | |
| This idea was inspired by Malahite's idea of getting sick when you come to Felarya. I was thinking that if you stayed in Felarya for a long period of time and then left to say another world. That you would get sick more easily and in serious cases die. Due to the fact that the body wasn't exposed to regular sickness or disease in Felarya it would other wise be exposed.
So the basic Idea is that the body is less immune to sickness than it regularly would be if you stay in Felarya long enough. And if you leave Felarya, the body will more prone to getting sick.
Thoughts? | |
| | | TheQuantumMechanic Temple scourge
Posts : 646 Join date : 2008-06-25 Age : 46 Location : Fresno, California, USA
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:02 pm | |
| This idea (and variants of it) has come up in discussion several times before; a lot of people think that it would result in giant predators native to Felarya having a very bad day if they crossed over into a different world, having lived their whole lives in an environment without any harmful bacteria, disease, or toxic microorganisms. It's unlikely that it would work exactly the way you suggest, given that Felarya seems to make people healthier; there's no reason for anything in the environment to make your body stop producing antibodies you've already developed to diseases you were exposed to before travelling to Felarya. Now, arrive on Felarya, stay there for a few centuries and then go back home, and you are probably going to have problems with that super plague that developed in the last 25 years... but that's a different matter. | |
| | | GREGOLE Survivor
Posts : 943 Join date : 2007-12-08 Age : 34 Location : Heckville
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:08 pm | |
| It's generally agreed that Felaryan soil strengthens the body, it doesn't neutralize disease. One can't selectively destroy only harmful pathogens, and strengthened immune systems are consistent with the soil's healing properties.
As such, if one left Felarya, their immune system would be far stronger than normal. | |
| | | S-Guy Temple scourge
Posts : 691 Join date : 2008-07-15 Age : 29 Location : The flattest part of Georgia
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:23 pm | |
| And In my case I would be easily distracted (for a time) from all of the predators and such, and easily pulled in by how purtyful Felarya is. Which is to say I probably wouldn't be leaving anytime soon. | |
| | | ericnthered123 Newbie adventurer
Posts : 75 Join date : 2008-08-09 Age : 35
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:37 pm | |
| - TheQuantumMechanic wrote:
- This idea (and variants of it) has come up in discussion several times before; a lot of people think that it would result in giant predators native to Felarya having a very bad day if they crossed over into a different world, having lived their whole lives in an environment without any harmful bacteria, disease, or toxic microorganisms.
It's unlikely that it would work exactly the way you suggest, given that Felarya seems to make people healthier; there's no reason for anything in the environment to make your body stop producing antibodies you've already developed to diseases you were exposed to before travelling to Felarya.
Now, arrive on Felarya, stay there for a few centuries and then go back home, and you are probably going to have problems with that super plague that developed in the last 25 years... but that's a different matter. True. I probaly should have said that this is more of a question than a new idea. Here's my way of thinking feel free to shoot it down. What I was thinking that since your body well not be used to say a new strain of virus that poped up on the world while your in Felarya. While your body is still producing Antibodies it wouldn't used to this new strain and well get hit harder or quicker by it when you go back. Or at least get a little sick for a an hour or two. | |
| | | ericnthered123 Newbie adventurer
Posts : 75 Join date : 2008-08-09 Age : 35
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:44 pm | |
| - GREGOLE wrote:
- It's generally agreed that Felaryan soil strengthens the body, it doesn't neutralize disease. One can't selectively destroy only harmful pathogens, and strengthened immune systems are consistent with the soil's healing properties.
As such, if one left Felarya, their immune system would be far stronger than normal. True. But a stronger immune system doesn't mean that you will survie say a new virus or such. | |
| | | ericnthered123 Newbie adventurer
Posts : 75 Join date : 2008-08-09 Age : 35
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:48 pm | |
| - S-Guy wrote:
- And In my case I would be easily distracted (for a time) from all of the predators and such, and easily pulled in by how purtyful Felarya is. Which is to say I probably wouldn't be leaving anytime soon.
True if you were distracted for any given time in Felarya. You probaly woudn't be leaving at all. | |
| | | Malahite Cog in the Machine
Posts : 2433 Join date : 2007-12-11 Location : Old World
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:39 am | |
| - ericnthered123 wrote:
True. But a stronger immune system doesn't mean that you will survie say a new virus or such. The bigger problem would show when one obtains a disease setting the immune system against the body. | |
| | | Anime-Junkie Loremaster
Posts : 2690 Join date : 2007-12-16 Age : 31 Location : The Country of Kangaroos and Criminal Scum
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:50 pm | |
| - GREGOLE wrote:
- It's generally agreed that Felaryan soil strengthens the body, it doesn't neutralize disease. One can't selectively destroy only harmful pathogens, and strengthened immune systems are consistent with the soil's healing properties.
As such, if one left Felarya, their immune system would be far stronger than normal. Predators would have been exposed to almost every pathogen through their prey. The Felaryan effect would stop the preds getting seriously ill, so their immune systems have time to deal with the pathogen. Otherwise everybody in Felarya would have been wiped out ages ago from some super plauge. | |
| | | TheQuantumMechanic Temple scourge
Posts : 646 Join date : 2008-06-25 Age : 46 Location : Fresno, California, USA
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:45 am | |
| - GREGOLE wrote:
- It's generally agreed that Felaryan soil strengthens the body, it doesn't neutralize disease. One can't selectively destroy only harmful pathogens, and strengthened immune systems are consistent with the soil's healing properties.
As such, if one left Felarya, their immune system would be far stronger than normal. Actually, my opinion is that the restorative power of Felaryan soil is extremely unlikely to work in this manner, for a number of reasons. It looks good on the surface, but when you really think about it, a number of glaring problems pop up. First and foremost, boosting your immune system never makes you completely immune to disease; it just doesn't work that way. The more robust your immune system is, the more robust diseases have to become to survive in their environment (your body); eventually, you reach a point where the average virus or bacterial infection is slaughtered almost instantly by your white blood cells... but there will inevitably be a pathogen that comes along that is resilient enough to not only survive the onslaught of your immune system, but thrive despite its efforts. We see a similar thing all the time with the increasing number of bacterial and viral infections that are extremely drug-resistant. While I don't expect things in Felarya to operate exactly as they do in the real world, it is a fairly good guide, simply based on the biological processes involved. Secondly, we know that the immune system of even large creatures native to Felarya can be defeated; the evidence is the Dryad Gut Worm. Your immune system will attempt to fight off parasites in the same way it would any other foreign contaminant, and in this situation, it is obvious that Gut Worms are able to establish a foothold in a Dryad's body despite the 'miracle factor' of Felarya's soil. This is useful to know, because theoretically, if a more complex organism such as a parasitic worm can 'beat' whatever it is in Felarya's soil that annhiliates diseases, then it should be a simple matter for a microbial organism to do so. This means, we should see some extremely virulent diseases and plagues on Felarya; yet, there are no documented cases of anyone ever dying from a disease on Felarya. In fact, according to Karbo, it can not happen (under typical circumstances). Thirdly, if it is just a matter of Felarya's soil strengthening one's immune system, that means biological weapons will eventually become effective on Felarya. The only thing that is preventing their use in that situation is that their effectiveness is below the threshold of the effectiveness of the target's immune system. Once you are capable of determining the extent of a Naga's or Harpy's resistance to pathogens, weaponizing a biological agent lethal enough to kill them despite the presence of Felarya's restorative factor is a fairly simple matter. If it can affect them at all, you can develop something that will kill them, given enough time and effort. Really, the more you look into it, the less consistent the "Felaryan soil strengthens the body, it doesn't neutralize disease" theory (not picking on you, GREGOLE ) becomes. My personal opinion, which is really nothing more than an informed guess based on everything I've read about the soil's miraculous properties, is that it is indeed actively and selectively destroying only harmful pathogens. So, I have to disagree with you on that point. I do think it's a bit more complicated than "It's healing magics in the soil, killing all ur infectionz!" I'll post my theory in a bit, but I have to get ready for my class; if I don't have time before I have to leave, I'll get back to the subject when I get home. | |
| | | S-Guy Temple scourge
Posts : 691 Join date : 2008-07-15 Age : 29 Location : The flattest part of Georgia
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:01 am | |
| And I'm guessing that class is probably biology/life science judging by the way you can make my brain explode and begin to leak out of my ears with your explanations of diseases and viruses. *eye twitches* | |
| | | gwadahunter2222 Master cartographer
Posts : 1842 Join date : 2007-12-08 Age : 40
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:14 am | |
| - TheQuantumMechanic wrote:
Actually, my opinion is that the restorative power of Felaryan soil is extremely unlikely to work in this manner, for a number of reasons. It looks good on the surface, but when you really think about it, a number of glaring problems pop up.
First and foremost, boosting your immune system never makes you completely immune to disease; it just doesn't work that way. The more robust your immune system is, the more robust diseases have to become to survive in their environment (your body); eventually, you reach a point where the average virus or bacterial infection is slaughtered almost instantly by your white blood cells... but there will inevitably be a pathogen that comes along that is resilient enough to not only survive the onslaught of your immune system, but thrive despite its efforts.
We see a similar thing all the time with the increasing number of bacterial and viral infections that are extremely drug-resistant. While I don't expect things in Felarya to operate exactly as they do in the real world, it is a fairly good guide, simply based on the biological processes involved.
Secondly, we know that the immune system of even large creatures native to Felarya can be defeated; the evidence is the Dryad Gut Worm. Your immune system will attempt to fight off parasites in the same way it would any other foreign contaminant, and in this situation, it is obvious that Gut Worms are able to establish a foothold in a Dryad's body despite the 'miracle factor' of Felarya's soil.
This is useful to know, because theoretically, if a more complex organism such as a parasitic worm can 'beat' whatever it is in Felarya's soil that annhiliates diseases, then it should be a simple matter for a microbial organism to do so. This means, we should see some extremely virulent diseases and plagues on Felarya; yet, there are no documented cases of anyone ever dying from a disease on Felarya. In fact, according to Karbo, it can not happen (under typical circumstances).
Thirdly, if it is just a matter of Felarya's soil strengthening one's immune system, that means biological weapons will eventually become effective on Felarya. The only thing that is preventing their use in that situation is that their effectiveness is below the threshold of the effectiveness of the target's immune system. Once you are capable of determining the extent of a Naga's or Harpy's resistance to pathogens, weaponizing a biological agent lethal enough to kill them despite the presence of Felarya's restorative factor is a fairly simple matter. If it can affect them at all, you can develop something that will kill them, given enough time and effort.
Really, the more you look into it, the less consistent the "Felaryan soil strengthens the body, it doesn't neutralize disease" theory (not picking on you, GREGOLE ) becomes. My personal opinion, which is really nothing more than an informed guess based on everything I've read about the soil's miraculous properties, is that it is indeed actively and selectively destroying only harmful pathogens.
So, I have to disagree with you on that point. I do think it's a bit more complicated than "It's healing magics in the soil, killing all ur infectionz!" I'll post my theory in a bit, but I have to get ready for my class; if I don't have time before I have to leave, I'll get back to the subject when I get home. Without saying all of that, there is a little detail which show the limit of the healing property of the Felaryan soil,it's the fact there is people like Temi who has an important knownledge in medecine. In my opinion the doil of Felarya help you to resist better to diseases or recover faster than in your homeworld, by example a disease it takes 3 days to recover in our world, in Felarya it will take 1 day it's a pure. (It's a pure example I know it's not like that it works). If we take the example of biological weapon, it will be effective on Felarya but the creature with the help of the soil the creature will oppose a better resistance, the time someone find a way to cure it. You can suffer from an incurable and painful disease if you come in Felarya you won't be totally cured, you will still be sick but you will stand it better. I agree with GREGOLE with the fact if you left Felarya your immune system will be far stronger than normal because when you are in Felarya your body is attacked by many different disease coming from different worlds including your homeworld. So indeed your immune system is well-trained but it doesn't mean you won't be sick but you will recover faster than normal | |
| | | Pendragon Grand Mecha Enthusiast
Posts : 3229 Join date : 2007-12-09
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:56 pm | |
| I also agree. The soil really does wonders for the body.
Though in some cases there could be some additional side effects asides from a better immune system. I blame Notys for that, though. | |
| | | TheQuantumMechanic Temple scourge
Posts : 646 Join date : 2008-06-25 Age : 46 Location : Fresno, California, USA
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:19 pm | |
| - S-Guy wrote:
- And I'm guessing that class is probably biology/life science judging by the way you can make my brain explode and begin to leak out of my ears with your explanations of diseases and viruses. *eye twitches*
Psychology, actually. Bio was yesterday. - gwadahunter2222 wrote:
- Without saying all of that, there is a little detail which show the limit of the healing property of the Felaryan soil,it's the fact there is people like Temi who has an important knownledge in medecine.
I didn't mention that, because it's not particularly relevant to the discussion. There will ALWAYS be people who specialize in medical knowledge, unless death due to disease or injury are completely unknown on your world, or your people simply haven't developed the knowledge. The existence of "medics" like Temi has no bearing at all on the properties or limitations of Felaryan soil. - gwadahunter2222 wrote:
- In my opinion the doil of Felarya help you to resist better to diseases or recover faster than in your homeworld, by example a disease it takes 3 days to recover in our world, in Felarya it will take 1 day it's a pure. (It's a pure example I know it's not like that it works).
It may very well be a similar case like that, in that it helps speed up recovery. However, it is almost certainly not doing so by boosting your immune system; or at least, not only by boosting your immune system to the extent people are saying, for the reasons I described earlier. - gwadahunter2222 wrote:
- If we take the example of biological weapon, it will be effective on Felarya but the creature with the help of the soil the creature will oppose a better resistance, the time someone find a way to cure it.
Incorrect; if you are exposed to a highly virulent biological agent that affects you and has a 90% or higher mortality rate over a very short period of time, merely being 'resistant' to it is not going to buy you enough time for someone to cure it. We're talking a few extra minutes to a couple of hours, at best. Weaponized biotoxins aren't a matter of standing around unaffected while everyone around you is sniffling from the common cold; if your immune system doesn't provide an extremely high level of resistance from it, the chances of you recovering before the mortality period are slim to none. - gwadahunter2222 wrote:
- You can suffer from an incurable and painful disease if you come in Felarya you won't be totally cured, you will still be sick but you will stand it better.
This I can agree with somewhat, but the caveat is that it depends on how the 'miracle factor' of the soil works. If it simply boosts your immune system or directly mitigates the effect of harmful pathogens, then you are correct and you won't be completely cured. If there is something in the soil that actively seeks out and destroys harmful pathogens, then you will be completely cured, given enough time. - gwadahunter2222 wrote:
- I agree with GREGOLE with the fact if you left Felarya your immune system will be far stronger than normal because when you are in Felarya your body is attacked by many different disease coming from different worlds including your homeworld. So indeed your immune system is well-trained but it doesn't mean you won't be sick but you will recover faster than normal
While I agree that staying on Felarya long enough will probably make your immune system more robust all around, it is not going to provide much additional protection once you get home. You are making the assumption that: - Quote :
- ...when you are in Felarya your body is attacked by many different disease coming from different worlds including your homeworld.
When we have no evidence at all pointing at that. Just because many worlds cross into Felarya does not mean all pathogens from all of them are entering into Felarya as well. In fact, judging from the simple fact that nobody on Felarya has ever contracted (as far as we know) an airborne pathogen, that is a pretty safe bet to say that is not what is happening. Your immune system is only really at maximum effectiveness when it is dealing with a pathogen that it has already developed antibodies to; for that to happen, you have to be exposed to the pathogen in the first place, and often suffer its effects while your immune system tries to combat it. With a lethal pathogen, this is often... well, lethal- your immune system doesn't automatically kick the viral or bacterial infection just because your immune system is 'strong'. Viruses and bacteria can become strengthened in exactly the same way, because they have to constantly evolve in order to survive in more inhospitable environments; and considering that they can go through several generations within minutes, they will always have the edge in adaptability over your immune system, which takes a much longer time to adjust to new things it is exposed to. Antibodies are also what provide protection/resilience from exposure to poisons and venoms, while we're on the topic of the immune system. And we know that there are several types of venom on Felarya that are capable of affecting even the largest Felaryan giant predator... I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. | |
| | | TheQuantumMechanic Temple scourge
Posts : 646 Join date : 2008-06-25 Age : 46 Location : Fresno, California, USA
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:39 pm | |
| Now, I believe that the following... - GREGOLE wrote:
- One can't selectively destroy only harmful pathogens
... Is exactly what is happening on Felarya. One thing that bugs me a lot is the seeming absence of microbial life on Felarya; realistically, it does exist, it simply isn't interesting enough for anybody to bother mentioning it. Microorganisms are everywhere; Life as we know it simply isn't possible without them. Hell, you are a colony of microorganisms working in unison... most of the time. Bad things start to happen when your cells decide to go on strike or do things on their own. Felarya shouldn't be any different in this respect; in fact, it should be teeming with uncountable numbers of potent little microbes. And maybe it is. We know that native Felaryans tend to be healthier, larger, stronger, and all around fitter than off-worlders, but that even an off-worlder who remains on Felarya long enough gradually changes. We also know that disease as we know it is virtually non-existant in Felarya. When I try to imagine how and why, I keep coming up with the same result. The Predator's Planet has some extremely fierce and deadly predators, even on the microscopic scale. Felarya's soil must be swarming with bacteria and retroviruses, that enter a host who is exposed to the soil and establish a symbiotic relationship; they effectively act as agents within the host's body, ravenously hunting down and consuming anything that doesn't belong or that might adversely affect the host. And even airborne, the microbes still tirelessly munch away at airborne plagues and biotoxins, preventing any widespread infection of life by that vector. The microbes might even have a very rudimentary version of the "Predator Sense", that identifies what is a harmful pathogen (prey) and what isn't; various amoeba and protozoa are capable of detecting and zeroing in on nearby prey, so it isn't too far of a stretch to believe the same applies to Felaryan microorganisms. The 'soil makes you healthier!' bit really seemed to be an indication that a person's genetic structure is being affected; in a word (well, two), "DNA-altering retrovirus". To really know for sure, we would have to know whether or not the soil is capable of 'curing' genetic conditions, such as predisposition to obesity, inherited diabeties, etc. But if I had to wildly speculate, I would say "Definitely"; we know that it basically turns off the genes for aging, the significance of that alone is HUGE. If it is awesome little microbes in the soil accomplishing all this amazing stuff, why does it eventually stop working when the soil leaves Felarya? Simple: the microorganisms simply can't survive off of Felarya. Something in the environment that is vital for their survival is missing, and they eventually weaken and die off, leading to the effects of the soil diminishing until it simply stops working altogether... necessitating another trip to Felarya to acquire more, or perhaps an extended vacation there. ... Almost like someone planned it out, isn't it? Anyways, that's just the best theory I could come up with, based on all the available information I could find. Make of it what you will. | |
| | | gwadahunter2222 Master cartographer
Posts : 1842 Join date : 2007-12-08 Age : 40
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:05 pm | |
| - TheQuantumMechanic wrote:
When we have no evidence at all pointing at that. Just because many worlds cross into Felarya does not mean all pathogens from all of them are entering into Felarya as well. In fact, judging from the simple fact that nobody on Felarya has ever contracted (as far as we know) an airborne pathogen, that is a pretty safe bet to say that is not what is happening. It happens Travelers bring diseases with them, a place like Felarya there are lot of creatures which pass or stay in the world. I doubt the predators wash their preys before to eat them | |
| | | Malahite Cog in the Machine
Posts : 2433 Join date : 2007-12-11 Location : Old World
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:10 pm | |
| - gwadahunter2222 wrote:
It happens Travelers bring diseases with them, a place like Felarya there are lot of creatures which pass or stay in the world. I doubt the predators wash their preys before to eat them I also doubt the Prey still have any diseases of notice when the Pred grabs them. | |
| | | TheQuantumMechanic Temple scourge
Posts : 646 Join date : 2008-06-25 Age : 46 Location : Fresno, California, USA
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:42 pm | |
| - gwadahunter2222 wrote:
- It happens Travelers bring diseases with them, a place like Felarya there are lot of creatures which pass or stay in the world. I doubt the predators wash their preys before to eat them
This: - Malahite wrote:
- I also doubt the Prey still have any diseases of notice when the Pred grabs them.
You are assuming that Travelers bring diseases with them into Felarya, which I will admit is a fairly safe assumption. However, there is no evidence at all that they still have any diseases of concern by the time they get themselves eaten; how many sick predators has Felarya ever seen? ... ... Yeah. And it can not simply be a matter of "they get exposed to diseases all the time, it's just that their immune systems are so strong they never show any symptoms or suffer any effects." Immune systems just don't work that way. A Naga with an immune system that is so powerful it can simply obliterate any disease he comes into contact within moments of exposure... would likely to be so resistant to poisons that his blood could be used to make an antivenom for any venom found on Felarya. If the entire species of Naga have immune systems that resilient, then it is extremely unlikely that a giant Naga is going to be severely affected by anything except the most virulent venom found on Felarya. ... And it is also extremely likely that if that is the case, when a pathogen eventually does develop that is capable of defeating the Naga immunoresponse, it is going to tear through their species and wipe out entire communities in one shot. Like I said before, it doesn't matter HOW good your immune system is, pathogens always have the edge, because they are capable of adapting much more quickly to your defenses than your immune system can adapt to their attack. This isn't universally true, but it's close enough to apply in 90-95% of all cases that don't involve people who are immunocompromised (they have it even worse) or born with a natural resistance/"immunity" (they aren't really immune) to a certain pathogen. | |
| | | Tuc135 Hero
Posts : 1059 Join date : 2008-05-01 Location : Chances are between someone's esophagus and duodenum
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:34 pm | |
| Diseases are a little more complicated than simply getting a virus in your body. First, let me define a couple terms.
Disease: A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.
Basically, when something is damaged or not working right in the body. One of the causes is infection.
Infection: Invasion by and multiplication of pathogenic microorganisms in a bodily part or tissue, which may produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease through a variety of cellular or toxic mechanisms.
Basically, a virus or bacteria gets into your body and starts to grow in number. Note the phrase “…which MAY produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease …”. According to these definitions, it’s possible to get an infection without actually having a disease.
In fact, many of the infections you get are asymptomatic. This means that you simply don’t show any of the symptoms of a disease. This is because the viruses, bacteria, or microbes aren’t doing enough damage to the tissues of your body to be noticed. One’s immune system often eliminates the disease before the damage is noticeable.
I note that the Felaryan wiki states that the soil cures disease. Not that it removes infection. There will be some strengthening of the immune system, as any wear and tear to the glands and cells of the immune system will be repaired. But mostly, the soil cures the disease by simply repairing the damage done by the infection, but not actually removing the viruses or bacteria from your body. In fact, a person might be carrying around a number of infections that aren’t doing any damage. (And thus are not causing disease!)
Overall, I believe that ericnthered123 has the right idea for the wrong reasons. A person returning from Felarya would fall ill. Not because of a weakened immune system, but because of the formerly harmless infections they might be carrying. When the healing effect of Felarya is taken out of the picture, the damage from the infections starts accumulating, and the person shows the symptoms of a disease.
Heck, they might start an epidemic, if they bring viruses or such that originated on another world. | |
| | | Feign Marauder of the deep jungle
Posts : 342 Join date : 2007-12-10 Age : 42 Location : Neo Terminus
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:33 pm | |
| - Tuc135 wrote:
- I note that the Felaryan wiki states that the soil cures disease. Not that it removes infection. There will be some strengthening of the immune system, as any wear and tear to the glands and cells of the immune system will be repaired. But mostly, the soil cures the disease by simply repairing the damage done by the infection, but not actually removing the viruses or bacteria from your body. In fact, a person might be carrying around a number of infections that aren’t doing any damage. (And thus are not causing disease!)
Holy crap, Tuc just completely changed my mind 100% on this subject! Therefore, he wins. However, since the immune system is still in full effect (as it attacks microbial invaders regardless of the damage they cause) Someone who travels through Felarya has about as much chance of bringing back an infection and getting sick as anyone who travels through a mundane jungle (which admittedly is pretty plausible, but not a certainty). A case could certainly be made for someone born in Felarya to be an epic plague carrier, since they would have a lifetime of their bodies being a microcosm of Felarya itself, with only the baddest, most resilient pathogens surviving. | |
| | | TheQuantumMechanic Temple scourge
Posts : 646 Join date : 2008-06-25 Age : 46 Location : Fresno, California, USA
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:11 pm | |
| - Tuc135 wrote:
- Basically, a virus or bacteria gets into your body and starts to grow in number. Note the phrase “…which MAY produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease…”. According to these definitions, it’s possible to get an infection without actually having a disease.
While most of what you said is correct, a person who is infected is going to have a disease. It just might not be overt, which means that the effects might not be on a noticeable scale until they progress to a certain point, which is what those definitions implied. Most pathological entities that we consider harmful (and even many we consider benign) produce waste byproducts that have an adverse effect on cells; even if the effect is only damaging one cell out of every ten thousand in our body, the person can be said to be suffering from an illness (or disease)... it is just not an overt disease, until the symptoms progress to a point where one or more bodily functions become significantly compromised. At this moment, everyone reading this (and myself, and everyone else on the planet) almost certainly has at least one disease. It isn't a big deal, because our immune system handles them just like every other pathological entity that enters our body; the only ones we really notice or concern ourselves with are the illnesses our immune system has a harder time dealing with, because then the effect becomes noticeable, as you said below. - Tuc135 wrote:
- In fact, many of the infections you get are asymptomatic. This means that you simply don’t show any of the symptoms of a disease. This is because the viruses, bacteria, or microbes aren’t doing enough damage to the tissues of your body to be noticed. One’s immune system often eliminates the disease before the damage is noticeable.
I agree on this point; my only disagreement was with the technicality above. - Tuc135 wrote:
- I note that the Felaryan wiki states that the soil cures disease. Not that it removes infection. There will be some strengthening of the immune system, as any wear and tear to the glands and cells of the immune system will be repaired. But mostly, the soil cures the disease by simply repairing the damage done by the infection, but not actually removing the viruses or bacteria from your body. In fact, a person might be carrying around a number of infections that aren’t doing any damage. (And thus are not causing disease!)
See, I noticed that, but I made the assumption that the soil would remove the agent causing the damage as well; because for it to completely cure disease, it has to be repairing the damage as quickly as or even faster than the pathogen can cause it. Which is problematic with a pathogen capable of rapid self-replication, like most viruses- without anything to check the growth of the virus, and an unlimited amount of 'food', the replication rate is going to skyrocket out of control until the environment (in this case, your body) just isn't large enough to contain the pathogen. It is incorrect to say that in that situation the infections are not doing damage; the damage they are doing is simply being immediately repaired. Cells are still being affected by the toxins produced by the pathogen, or consumed and used for replication, or whatever else is happening at that level. So, simply repairing the damage is insufficient; the removal of the pathological agent is also neccessary. Some people think that it's a matter of the immunoresponse system being strengthened, which is certainly possible. It would have to be strengthened to a tremendous degree to handle very persistent or swiftly replicating pathogens, however... even if the soil is preventing the body from succumbing to the effects of the infection. Given that there's already one known external factor in effect (the 'healing' power of the soil), it seemed reasonable enough to conclude that there was another (something removing the pathogen causing the disease as well). - Tuc135 wrote:
- Overall, I believe that ericnthered123 has the right idea for the wrong reasons. A person returning from Felarya would fall ill. Not because of a weakened immune system, but because of the formerly harmless infections they might be carrying. When the healing effect of Felarya is taken out of the picture, the damage from the infections starts accumulating, and the person shows the symptoms of a disease.
Heck, they might start an epidemic, if they bring viruses or such that originated on another world. That's also a very plausible theory, but if it were the case, we would be able to tell as soon as someone dropped dead soon after leaving Felarya from Ebola or some other particularly nasty pathogen they were carrying around. Without the damage being repaired, they're quickly going to succumb to the effects of the infection. Just for clarification, I'm not saying that it's not the case; it could very well be so, and we just haven't seen it happen yet. It's a very interesting theory, and to a certain extent, it suggests that some people might be 'stuck' on Felarya. Sure, on the upside, going to Felarya will allow you to survive that disease you have that happens to have a 98.9 percent mortality rate; on the downside, if you ever leave, you're going to have to "Pay the Piper", so to speak. I like your theory a lot, Tuc135. EDIT: I love the following sentence, Feign; the part I italicized in particular is made of pure win. - Feign wrote:
- A case could certainly be made for someone born in Felarya to be an epic plague carrier, since they would have a lifetime of their bodies being a microcosm of Felarya itself, with only the baddest, most resilient pathogens surviving.
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| | | S-Guy Temple scourge
Posts : 691 Join date : 2008-07-15 Age : 29 Location : The flattest part of Georgia
| Subject: Re: Felarya Effect Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:17 pm | |
| I'm infinitely amazed not only at this explanation, but by the fact that I understood it for once. Now, just in case, we should probably retreat to bomb shelters for a minimum of 12 hours, just in case the sky starts falling. | |
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