Perhaps the Guardians didn't just destroy Ur-Sagol?

With all that power that the people of Ur-Sagol had, would it be equally logical for the Guardians to influence their mages and local powers that be, to turn on one another and destroy their own society?

The Guardians had the power to pulverize Ur Sagol, but what if they found it sporting to make them wipe themselves out? What if exceptionally powerful forces on Felarya suddenly went nuts and committed suicide or experimented with their powers and blew themselves up? A power struggle exploded into war in Ur Sagol and they all died in some kind of magical 'nuclear exchange'/armageddon?

Those who might have the power to resist the Guardians have no idea what powers they really have to contend with: the subtle ability to cause them to self destruct, or to turn their allies against them.

Basically, if this is the case, you'd never see the true power of the Guardians. They act behind the scenes to break eggs by encouraging them to run into each other. Very few powers exist that can resist this influence from a group of Guardians who are far more ancient and more experienced at manipulation and subversion than any of these younger bucks that rise to power on their turf.

For instance, even Kakarott/Goku could be repelled by the Guardians because they send someone to whisper something in Vegeta's ear that causes Goku and Vegeta to fight. Then all that remains is for, say, Mercreti to kick them out when they're weak and battered.

Perhaps there's even another named Guardian who specializes in this kind of subversion? Or maybe it's Trejal, the negotiator, who does this?


Well, at least this sounds like a good idea...

Actually, what better way to protect Felarya than to make your enemies hate eachother? This sounds like how it really goes down.

Nice thinking, Raev.

This is my favorite strategy, and I'd like to think I'm not the only one. It really makes sense, too. The Guardians' touch doesn't have to be easily noticed like a nuke, it could just be these subtle touches where nobody would really suspect that the Guardians were actually responsible.

Pendragon wrote:

Actually, what better way to protect Felarya than to make your enemies hate eachother? This sounds like how it really goes down.

Nice thinking, Raev.

The only way to beat the Guardians then is to be an uber God mod that goes in alone. Sephiroth, Gokuu, etc. But then you're all alone. Against X number of Guardians. And if their combined firepower doesn't take you down, they're also working on getting you to blow yourself up by accident.

Trejal and Nemyra could turn the entire Warhammer 40K Ork army against itself. A Waaaagh! gone totally wrong.

Goku enters Felarya alone, wreaks havoc, Nemyra sees him, uses her see all know all powers to trick Goku to go get Vegeta to speed up the "pacification" of Felarya, and then Trejal twists Vegeta against Goku. Mercreti carefully throws them out when they're weakened.

The Guardians get Majin Buu to assimilate someone extremely suicidal.

Another race of Gods come to put down the Guardians of Felarya... Nemyra studies their internal politics, Trejal stokes the flames of dissent and vengeance, and th-th-th-that's all folks!

I guess that might earn them their titles well.

Though you must be careful, because this could be turned against them. Nemyra and Quaz, for example, need only the drop of a hat and they could start an all up magic-insect warfare.

Pendragon wrote:

I guess that might earn them their titles well.

Though you must be careful, because this could be turned against them. Nemyra and Quaz, for example, need only the drop of a hat and they could start an all up magic-insect warfare.

There are other Guardians there to prevent that.

Actually, Pendragon, you're frighteningly spot on.

Even with other Guardians around to prevent all out war, there is a way to trigger a huge fight between Nemyra and Quaz.

Someone leaves the Felarya realm with knowledge of Quaz and Nemyra, say, into the clutches of Kane of the Brotherhood of Nod.

Kane mulls it over and decides, hey, let's totally indoctrinate someone's brain into thinking they know for sure that Quaz is about to totally, heinously screw Nemyra up good while his insect army exterminates all the Fairies. Any day now, in fact. Come to think of it, this dude comes from the future where there is no Nemyra and no fairies. He saw that Quaz tricked her by proving he wasn't about to attack. She fell for it and then whammo. He then saw Quaz wriggling out of her skull after she fell dead.

It's even funnier if the person who falls into Kane's grasp is an actual fairy.

This guy walks back into Felarya and Nemyra sees into his head and she gets to thinking, hey, she'd better act. NOW.

The drawback is Kane will only get one chance at pulling this off; Nemyra wouldn't fall for it twice. And I'm sure Trejal will have a good chance at defusing the situation.

The Guardians can be manipulated, but maybe they have safeguards in place to prevent it from going too far?

Well that's an interesting theory. You can never be quite sure at what exactly happened this day, thousands of years ago

And the guardians can be tricky indeed. Just take Mercreti who can pass virtually un-noticed in any human cities ^^

Raveolution wrote:

The only way to beat the Guardians then is to be an uber God mod that goes in alone. Sephiroth, Gokuu, etc.

I wouldn't include Sephiroth in there, unless you mean Sephiroth as in the non-FFVII one. He's powerful, but not that strong.

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But then you're all alone. Against X number of Guardians. And if their combined firepower doesn't take you down, they're also working on getting you to blow yourself up by accident.

They don't even need to do that. E'er heard of the nigh-infamous "Eldrad is a dick" stuff from the Chans? I could see a Guardian doing something similar to that with an enemy. They just need to plot ahead of time and put some events into motion, and said Guardian opponent will wind up just happening to be in the place a random Monty Python Sketch prop landed in Felarya.

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Trejal and Nemyra could turn the entire Warhammer 40K Ork army against itself. A Waaaagh! gone totally wrong.

Problem here is what happens with the remaining Orks. Instead of a horde of the little buggers, you get a couple hundred Mini-Ghazghkull's. I also dread to see the end result of Ork Mek v Ork Mek constructs.

In such a case, a better bet may be to have the Guardian point the Orks in some other direction. Which, if the Miratans get a bit too powerful...

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Goku enters Felarya alone, wreaks havoc, Nemyra sees him, uses her see all know all powers to trick Goku to go get Vegeta to speed up the "pacification" of Felarya, and then Trejal twists Vegeta against Goku. Mercreti carefully throws them out when they're weakened.

Best bet against Goku is actually to just constantly supply him with food. In that scenario, unless someone he cares about is killed, he's likely to not give a care about the Predator habits. And it's not like any Predator after the first is going to attack him.

"Don't attack him, remember the guy who twisted Lucy the Slug Girl into a knot? That's him!"

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The Guardians get Majin Buu to assimilate someone extremely suicidal.

Why do that? Just have him feed off a dozen or so Darwin Award winners and he'll challenge someone with an Infinity Gauntlet to a no-limit match after insulting their mother / father / siblings / hair.

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Another race of Gods come to put down the Guardians of Felarya... Nemyra studies their internal politics, Trejal stokes the flames of dissent and vengeance, and th-th-th-that's all folks!

You mean gods, not Gods. Bigger 'G' tends to mean the whole "Omnipotent" and "Omniscient" thing, though I get what you mean. Always works to have a figure born with a silver spoon in their mouth when it comes time to face such beings. I could see them pulling something similar to the Eldar Laughing god and convincing the most influential of the invaders to start eating their kin for power... and then seal the portal as the tricked one goes all Sylar on the race and they're too busy to watch the portal.

Raveolution wrote:

Goku enters Felarya alone, wreaks havoc, Nemyra sees him, uses her see all know all powers to trick Goku to go get Vegeta to speed up the "pacification" of Felarya, and then Trejal twists Vegeta against Goku. Mercreti carefully throws them out when they're weakened.

Saiyens have no resistance against magic and they have many difficulties to defeats giants opponents.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Raveolution wrote:

Goku enters Felarya alone, wreaks havoc, Nemyra sees him, uses her see all know all powers to trick Goku to go get Vegeta to speed up the "pacification" of Felarya, and then Trejal twists Vegeta against Goku. Mercreti carefully throws them out when they're weakened.

Saiyens have no resistance against magic and they have many difficulties to defeats giants opponents.

That do not exist when facing many of the Felaryan Giants. Heck, at one of the earliest points in the series it was possible for low-tier DBZ characters to shatter / blow up the moon. That... is a bit beyond most Felaryan characters power.

The problem is that most of the people in DB(Z) that would use such powers offensively are dead.

Malahite wrote:

That do not exist when facing many of the Felaryan Giants. Heck, at one of the earliest points in the series it was possible for low-tier DBZ characters to shatter / blow up the moon. That... is a bit beyond most Felaryan characters power.

The problem is that most of the people in DB(Z) that would use such powers offensively are dead.

DB(Z) is very inconsistent anime shows because the Moon was destroyed 2 times and rebuilt 3 times, the first time was in Dragon Ball by Kame Senin (I don't know his american name) and the second time by Piccolo.

When Goku and Vegeta were absorbed by Buu they meet inside his body giant worms able to swallow their energy blast, their luck was they were peaceful.
And in the movie Goku has to transform into SSJ3 to defeat Janemba giant form, and in the movie with the giant monster Hildegarde.

And the most powefull being in the dragon ball universe is the dragon Shenron they summon to a mass resurrection of people or rebuild a planet., in the Dragon Ball GT even if I loathe this saga he makes Goku younger without no problem.

And in the Dragon Ball GT, when Goku travels with Trunks, and his granddaughter Pan he meets giant caterpillars with a shell able to resist to the Kamehameha. I return to DBZ if Trunk didn't come from the future to cure Goku, he would die from a heart disease. The saiyens has no resistance to poison or disease.

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That... is a bit beyond most Felaryan characters power.

I'm not sure about that many creature in Felarya reach a high level of power like Sineria the dridder queen or Déméchrelle, King Trazix, Markie, Kallisti, Saya, Aimi and Terror. So it's possible to have predators enough powerful to defeat Saiyens. Because their abilities are very common: supernatural strenght and projection of energy blast and they do mostly physical damage. they are just ridiculously powerful and inconsistent in clear godmodding characters.

And If I remember I read a felarya story where a character do a DBZ like battle with a fairy.

It's not beyond the Felaryan characters power but it's just because Karbo doesn't want Uber powerful characters with unbalancing presence to keep his world consistent.

In my opinion there are possibilities it exists many powerful and unknown creatures or force in Felarya, but they just prefers to stay discrete or they are sealed or they are tolerate because they don't act as a threat for the world. If Ur-Sagol wasn't they would be strong chance they attract one of these beings whose the consequence will be the destruction of Felarya itself.

In multiverse and crossroads you will always find stronger than you.

Edit: A human who became a naga after she had been swallowed by a naga and now live with the naga who ate her, it surpass the ability to blow up the moon

Edit 2:

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The Guardians get Majin Buu to assimilate someone extremely suicidal.

Majin Buu has been sealed by magic.

Edit 3: the problem with all the races or characters you quoted, they can conquer Felarya and reign a moment on Felarya until they get defeated by a more advanced race or a more powerful creature etc...

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

When Goku and Vegeta were absorbed by Buu they meet inside his body giant worms able to swallow their energy blast, their luck was they were peaceful.

When inside Buu's body those weren't actual Giants. Giant compared to their size, but not compared to other DB(Z) beings.

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And in the movie Goku has to transform into SSJ3 to defeat Janemba giant form, and in the movie with the giant monster Hildegarde.

Have not seen, so cannot comment here.

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And the most powefull being in the dragon ball universe is the dragon Shenron they summon to a mass resurrection of people or rebuild a planet., in the Dragon Ball GT even if I loathe this saga he makes Goku younger without no problem.

Though his size has little to do with this fact. But yes, he is among the most powerful beings. He's also even more apathetic than the rest of the cast. "The universe is in danger? Meh, I'll work on it if asked. What? Fix it? Oh, uh, find some balls first."

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And in the Dragon Ball GT, when Goku travels with Trunks, and his granddaughter Pan he meets giant caterpillars with a shell able to resist to the Kamehameha. I return to DBZ if Trunk didn't come from the future to cure Goku, he would die from a heart disease. The saiyens has no resistance to poison or disease.

The problem here is that once on Felarya the disease resistance is not much an issue [Predators are not known for tailoring their own virii / bacteria weapons].

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I'm not sure about that many creature in Felarya reach a high level of power like Sineria the dridder queen or Déméchrelle, King Trazix, Markie, Kallisti, Saya, Aimi and Terror.

Many of them could not unleash satelite busting attacks, at the very least not as 'casually' they were tossed in DB(Z). Then there's the Felarya Canon policy issue when it comes to the power for its characters.

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So it's possible to have predators enough powerful to defeat Saiyens. Because their abilities are very common: supernatural strenght and projection of energy blast and they do mostly physical damage. they are just ridiculously powerful and inconsistent in clear godmodding characters.

Agreed. But Saiyans also have speed going for them. Which, with their size compared to most predators, is going to give them the same advantage Faeries have in several engagements [agile, small, hard to hit, etc].

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And If I remember I read a felarya story where a character do a DBZ like battle with a fairy.

Which goes against many of the other stories we see in Felarya, but due to the above cannot be discounted.

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It's not beyond the Felaryan characters power but it's just because Karbo doesn't want Uber powerful characters with unbalancing presence to keep his world consistent.

There are already minor inconsistencies, but this was a good rule put into play by Karbo early on. Much of the larger canon-raping stories in any fictional realm tend to occur when using such characters.

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In my opinion there are possibilities it exists many powerful and unknown creatures or force in Felarya, but they just prefers to stay discrete or they are sealed or they are tolerate because they don't act as a threat for the world.

Bolded what all the remaining DB(Z) characters fall under that could pose a threat. Garlic Jr is sealed, and many of the others have taken on - if not heroic - a lax view on the world.

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In multiverse and crossroads you will always find stronger than you.

Yep. Such realms can lead to funny one-up battles as each person runs right into a stronger opponent.

Vegeta would probably just laugh at the Humans that get caught.

Anyway, how did this get from the destruction of Ur-Sagol to DBZ Vs Felarya?

vegeta002 wrote:

Vegeta would probably just laugh at the Humans that get caught.

Anyway, how did this get from the destruction of Ur-Sagol to DBZ Vs Felarya?

Guardians and how they remove a threat.

DBZ was stated as a threat.

I made a comment on how that would work as a threat.

Things went down hill from there.

Malahite wrote:

There are already minor inconsistencies, but this was a good rule put into play by Karbo early on. Much of the larger canon-raping stories in any fictional realm tend to occur when using such characters.

The best example are the superheroes from Marvel or DC universes.

That's why I don't like quoting or using this kind of characters in a fiction, most of the case the power of the characters are exaggerate to pleasure the fan in order they buy the goodies.

Their power vary depending on the popularities towards the fans, like A was so overpowered he can lift a planet, later A is not so overpowered he can only lift a building. I prefer universe with characters whose the abilities are clearly explained, the strength and the weakness are clearly stated and if he gains new abilities it's just because he use his power in another way but still in relation of his original abilities a kind of evolution. for example you control fire if possible you develop the abilities to detect thermal signature or use your flame to propel you but not necessary to make the character too much powerful.

A good reason for Karbo to limit the usage of Guardians also. Allows him to keep them at a power he prefers them to be kept at, and at the same time also allows him to not need to reveal their full capabilities.

Malahite wrote:

A good reason for Karbo to limit the usage of Guardians also. Allows him to keep them at a power he prefers them to be kept at, and at the same time also allows him to not need to reveal their full capabilities.

The guardians are just the official reason why Felarya is not be conquered, they are just here to keep the world in balance, nothing how they do that they are many possibilities: manipulations, strange phenomenons or direct interventions but there is one thing which is clear since the moment you enter to Felarya don't think they don't know you are here.

Personally, I wonder which one did it-if you're looking at a display of raw power (which would have been recorded, and in the canon their role WAS recorded) would almost automatically eliminate Mecretia as I see it. A show of power by her would probably wipe the building clean off the map, and leave noone to tell of the Guardians razing it-given the fact that the battle between her an some uppity mage left the Miragia Forest the dimesional doorstep it is now. If you ask me, it would have had to have been Trejal, Quaz, Notys, or Nemyra. Quaz's ability to summon every single species of insect on Felarya to attack would certainly leave the place in ruins (Tonorions anyone???), which is its current state. There is also a chance of someone just managing to escape in the chaos, a lone survivor or two to tell the tale. Noone really knows anything about Notys and her powers, and we don't even have a description of what regular dimensional chimeras are like, so she is a completely unknown quantity here but could be very well responsible. Trejal is known as the Negotiator for a reason I would assume, while Nemyra appears to be the intel ops of the guardians judging by what we know. However, these are only the guardians we know of. An entirely different set of Guardians could have destroyed-or caused the destruction-of Ur Sagol.

We all also have to take in the considerations of the Guardian's powers.

Nemyra: Queen of the Fairies, can shrink and dismantle things from the inside out, has all the fairies of Felarya backing her up.

Quaz: Ruler of the Bugs, can have his subjects spread disease and poison, has all of the insects of Felarya under his beck and call. Oh yes, and his nigh-impenetrable exoskeleton.

Mecreti: Little Girl Body, Cosmic Powers. Things go Boom.

Notys: Intelligent in another wordly design and very random, how can we even be sure she was even involved with this?

Trejal shouldn't be counted. I think he's the weakest of the Guardians. He's a giant naga, and he has his exposed soul wandering around and eating. Uh, what about all those nasty little monsters that can eat ghosts and astral projections? I don't think Trejal can stand against those buggers.

Given the size of a giant naga, wouldn't devouring him be difficult? He is experienced enough with using his spirit to do everything to even feed like that, and if he could be taken out that easily I wager someone else would have removed him and they or someone else would be known as the Negotiator instead. So I don't think he can be discounted out of hand. However, at the same time I doubt he would have appeared in public like that, since Ur Sagol was a city of mages. A good question would be if his spirit is visible while he is using it in Felarya (and not, say, to astrally project himself to another plane). Also, given his age, just how big WOULD he be? I don't know if Nagas ever stop growing through their lifetime, but if they don't then he must be absolutely massive on the order of a Leviathan mermaid or larger, I would assume. Whether or not he has the physical strength to make use of that bulk is an open question though.