Dahlia Hawthorne = Felarya's Next Top Pred?

i agree, yes nagas are definately monsters.. and yes they might meet the requirements to be "evil" but i still find it hard to call nagas as a race.. evil..

i think your going off topic

GREGOLE wrote:

That's one definition. Here are a few others.

- A chimeric creature possessing parts of multiple animals - check

- An unnatural or abnormal creature - check

- An unclassified organism - check

- A dangerous beast - check

- A creature that is nightmarish or terrifying - check

- A creature of enormous scale - check

- A horrible, evil person - sometimes check

- Male genitalia - Well, Raison IS kindof a dick XP

I will stop here by they are not definitions but examples

vegeta002 : I think labelling a whole race as "evil" or "good" or "better than" is indeed a bit pointless. It all depends on the individuals like in real life.

Moreover the very concept of good and evil itself is also often ambiguous in my opinion, and largely subject to point of view in real life, and even more so in Felarya, where some races have a whole different mindset.
For example most fairies have a very different concept of good or evil or right and wrong than humans, with the question fun - not fun playing an important part in it.

As for the usual Elle and co bashing...

Well YES Elle can be definitely seens as evil when she tease the humans she caught before swallowing them mercilessly one by one.

But then how about Ryla in this story where she deceive a young mermaid, slowly tease her during the whole time, putting a mask of fake friendship, and then eat her in the end, regardless of her pleas. Isn't that evil ?
She know it's wrong but she does in the end. So by your own definition, Ryla is evil as well.
One could even argue that she is actually more evil than Elle, as unlike her, there is an hypocritical part involvedl, with the deception and playing with the feelings of her young victim.

As for servomoore as a naga... what are you talking about ??
Servomoore is not a fictionnal character. He is a real person and he has absolutely *nothing* to do in this discussion.

Karbo wrote:

Moreover the very concept of good and evil itself is also often ambiguous in my opinion, and largely subject to point of view in real life, and even more so in Felarya, where some races have a whole different mindset.
For example most fairies have a very different concept of good or evil or right and wrong than humans, with the question fun - not fun playing an important part in it.

Exactly. Which is one of the things I like about Felarya. Predators act in a way which most humans might consider "evil", but they honestly don't see it as wrong. It enables scenes of quite interesting moral ambiguity.

It seems to me this is the typical pro-human vs. pro-pred argument. With the pro-humans arguing preds aren't so innocent, and pro-preds arguing humans are the truly evil ones. Well, okay, it's gone a bit past that, but I think that's how it started, or at the very least, it's what added fuel to the fire.

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm a pro-human all the way. However, I also try to be a little arbitrary. I think it comes down to sentience, which all the main Felarya races have. Sentience includes knowledge of good and evil, which is what counts. Some, like Karbo, brought up that good and evil may not be solid constructs. I myself think that it's all about the mindset. If you are doing something out of selfishness, (unjust) rebelliousness, or for any other "evil reason", then it's evil. On that note, yes, every race has potential for good and evil.

The problem is that the good is highlighted more in some races, and the evil more in others. I think there is a bit of a bias, but not one big enough to cause an argument. So, people: state your point, defend it if you must, but don't HAMMER it. The point in a discussion is to be defensive, not offensive. I know I don't always stick by that, but still. This is getting out of hand.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

It seems to me this is the typical pro-human vs. pro-pred argument. With the pro-humans arguing preds aren't so innocent, and pro-preds arguing humans are the truly evil ones.

Not necessarily. Why should one side be "good" and the other "evil"? In some cases, both predator and prey may be "evil". Or both may be "good". I, for example, prefer situations where predator and prey may both, to an extent, be perceived as "good".

One can be "pro-pred" (or at least "not anti-pred") without necessarily perceiving prey as "evil".

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As for servomoore as a naga... what are you talking about ??
Servomoore is not a fictionnal character. He is a real person and he has absolutely *nothing* to do in this discussion.

That was more of an inside joke than anything.

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As for the usual Elle and co bashing...

Well YES Elle can be definitely seens as evil when she tease the humans she caught before swallowing them mercilessly one by one.

Once again, you totally miss my reasons for disliking Elle.

Teasing doesn't bother me. Elle's overall "I'm better than you" attitude is what gets to me.

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But then how about Ryla in this story where she deceive a young mermaid, slowly tease her during the whole time, putting a mask of fake friendship, and then eat her in the end, regardless of her pleas. Isn't that evil ?
She know it's wrong but she does in the end. So by your own definition, Ryla is evil as well.
One could even argue that she is actually more evil than Elle, as unlike her, there is an hypocritical part involvedl, with the deception and playing with the feelings of her young victim.

First of all, yes, Ryla is chaotic evil. I don't recall anyone denying this. She's almost as much of a heroic sociopath as Belkar Bitterleaf.

Secondly, I think you misread. Ryla wasn't teasing Mandy or "pretending" anything. She was genuinely trying to be nice about eating her.

Yeah, I agree that it is usually not predators being evil during such interaction - it depends on the character. E.g. Ryla, or the slug girl I'm working on, Ofelia, honestly think they're helping by trying to be nice about eating people, even if it just ends up looking like they're mocking their prey. Some predators, like my character Fenja, just care about eating food, so they may appear less "evil" when they're just trying to get food quickly. It's simply that predators don't get prey motivation and prey don't get predator motivations. A really evil character is one like Elle who honestly thinks she's better than prey and thus has the right to mess with them.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

Yeah, I agree that it is usually not predators being evil during such interaction - it depends on the character. E.g. Ryla, or the slug girl I'm working on, Ofelia, honestly think they're helping by trying to be nice about eating people, even if it just ends up looking like they're mocking their prey.

Exactly. Milly does the same. She's gentle, friendly and even quite caring with her food (sometimes). She makes an honest attempt to get her prey to calm down, to soothe them, to make them feel better before she eats them. It rarely works, for obvious reasons.

Excuse me let's go back to the main topic of this thread.

Sorry to derail this thread again, but even I’m getting a little tired off all this Elle hate. You know what? I’m going to ask her creator if I can use her in a story. Maybe I can do something about making her a bit more well liked.

*applaude*
I am looking forward to it !

zalzas wrote:

Sorry to derail this thread again, but even I’m getting a little tired off all this Elle hate. You know what? I’m going to ask her creator if I can use her in a story. Maybe I can do something about making her a bit more well liked.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo....don't do it Dayle!!! Don't go over to the darkside!!! lol

As for trying to make her more liked...I think I need to ask. Have you ever preformed any miracles before? lol, because you'd just about need to, to shine any positive light on that big bitch =P

I wish you the best of luck with your unachievable goal ^^

Karbo wrote:

*applaude*
I am looking forward to it !

Well I would hold your applause Karbo, knowing me the story it going to be sign gently retarded, like ALL my stories ^_^

rcs619 wrote:

zalzas wrote:

Sorry to derail this thread again, but even I’m getting a little tired off all this Elle hate. You know what? I’m going to ask her creator if I can use her in a story. Maybe I can do something about making her a bit more well liked.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo....don't do it Dayle!!! Don't go over to the darkside!!! lol

As for trying to make her more liked...I think I need to ask. Have you ever preformed any miracles before? lol, because you'd just about need to, to shine any positive light on that big bitch =P

I wish you the best of luck with your unachievable goal ^^

And its on now Cliff, I am totally gonna to make an awesome-taculer story and your going be all like “oh why did I eve doubt Zalzas! He is just so pimping awesome!” word yo.

GREGOLE wrote:

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I said she is more evi lthan one, not that they are incapable.

Just stick an 'average' in there and shut up.

Ooooooooh no. We're gonna continue lecturing you until we've hammered the point in so hard that no one will ever make the same mistake ever again.

Wow. I did not intend for y'all to go at it like this.