guardian descriptions [advise touchy subject material]

I don't want to express how the idea of this came about, so I'll get to the point. What's said on the guardian page of the wiki is incorrect.

NOTE : I don't really really consider guardians to be actual characters, so they don't need to be very developed, and will appear extremely rarely.

as stated in the wiki. this is false, they have names and bodies, as well as a slight description of powers. In addition there are confirmed cases of them acting within the canon universe. Saying they aren't characters conflicts with that.

Currently the guardians would be viewed as highly underdeveloped characters, but characters nonetheless.

Instead what should be said is that they are static and unyielding, and any content written with them other than by karbo will never be canonized nor accepted. As that is more to the point anyway.

I'll leave it at that, but I'd rather not go into detail about what defines a character, as that is not the subject of this topic. I'm aware that anything on this forum with the name "guardian" in it becomes touchy, so please try not to view this as how guardians should be.

Archmage_Bael wrote:

I'd rather not go into detail about what defines a character, as that is not the subject of this topic.

But your argument that "What's said on the guardian page of the wiki is incorrect." depends directly on how you define what a character is. Under your definition the Guardians are characters, while under others they would be considered "scenery" or "background"; therefore the subject of the topic actually is "what defines a character".

That's actually rather tangential to what you suggested however. You suggested

Archmage_Bael wrote:

They are static and unyielding, and any content written with them other than by Karbo will never be canonized nor accepted."

I find that to be a little harsh (what if someone writes a really good story involving one or more Guardians (like say Mercreti's (presumable) rise to power and Guardianship, or her early life and how she got started, or Notys secret obsession with tesseracts?)), but in the spirit of the original line.

(I read the original line "I don't really really consider guardians to be actual characters, so they don't need to be very developed, and will appear extremely rarely." more or less like this: "Look, I know the Guardian's are really strong and powerful, but Felarya is generally not a place for uber-powerful-characters. We need these few uber-powerful-characters in order to answer the "what prevents X from taking over Felarya", but they're not going to just stop by to have tea, eat a few nekos, and shoot the breeze with your characters, and if you are using them in your story as actual characters, you're doing it wrong.)

(Yes, I guess in my mind Karbo uses internet memes when writing rules down. ^^; )

Oldman40k2003 wrote:

I read the original line "I don't really really consider guardians to be actual characters, so they don't need to be very developed, and will appear extremely rarely." more or less like this: "Look, I know the Guardian's are really strong and powerful, but Felarya is generally not a place for uber-powerful-characters. We need these few uber-powerful-characters in order to answer the "what prevents X from taking over Felarya", but they're not going to just stop by to have tea, eat a few nekos, and shoot the breeze with your characters, and if you are using them in your story as actual characters, you're doing it wrong.

That's how I understand it too, however not everybody can get that meaning. That's why it must be better stated.

Yeah, that was my point. I think I know what he means, but I'm really bad at inferring things. Either way, calling them not actual characters IS incorrect, no matter what you intend to say. That's why I suggested what I did.

Things need to be direct in the wiki, it's important.

Well, it's like a god in a fantasy universe. It's not really a character, it's just mentioned.

Well it's a different kind of character but a character nonetheless.

Actually, Gods in some fantasy worlds get fleshed out pretty well. I guess it all depends on how dependent the lore is on said 'God.'

Guardians, however, are not exactly Gods. While they have incredible power, they don't share the same traits as a Deity, as far as I know. They don't get worshiped through any official cult (or do they? I'm not too sure), don't need the worship, and don't advertise it, or their presence. They stay invisible and avoid direct or indirect involvement unless it shows up at their doorstep by threatening the balance of Felarya.

All that said, they seem more equatable to slumbering giants of old, etc etc, so, maybe some more legends about the Guardians are in order, and not necessarily exact or completely fleshed out lore. Fleshing out Guardian lore wouldn't be a bad idea, but unless it's necessary right now (as in, unless they're coming into play,) then it can be put off in exchange for more rumors, legends, etc.

Actually Guardians are worshiped by a lot of various cults in felarya I think. It's not specifically stated, but there are hundreds of religions in felarya. Also, any really powerful being has the potential to be worshiped as a god.

If we are going to put off fleshing out felarya I'd rather do so in place of descriptions of the races, their culture such as activities, social interactions of various kinds (like mating and courtship, racial preferences, etc). We have lore and stories down pretty well I think. Stories would vary between races as well, but that is reserved for the cultures thread.

Kain wrote:

Actually, Gods in some fantasy worlds get fleshed out pretty well. I guess it all depends on how dependent the lore is on said 'God.'

Guardians, however, are not exactly Gods. While they have incredible power, they don't share the same traits as a Deity, as far as I know. They don't get worshiped through any official cult (or do they? I'm not too sure), don't need the worship, and don't advertise it, or their presence. They stay invisible and avoid direct or indirect involvement unless it shows up at their doorstep by threatening the balance of Felarya.

All that said, they seem more equatable to slumbering giants of old, etc etc, so, maybe some more legends about the Guardians are in order, and not necessarily exact or completely fleshed out lore. Fleshing out Guardian lore wouldn't be a bad idea, but unless it's necessary right now (as in, unless they're coming into play,) then it can be put off in exchange for more rumors, legends, etc.

I agree with that ^^ If guardians are to be developped, it would be more through legends and tales. Because very very few people have ever met them in person.

Nemyra once said, "Let there be wisps!" and there was wisps.