Negav Development: Market and Trade

It has been raised multiple times in the past threads about Negav, particularly about Darkie, and I believe the time has come to ask ourselves about Negav's typical market and how it handles its trades. What we know so far is that Negav leans toward magitech society, and it hasn't embraced industrialization and mass production just yet. We know that, in the Lower Tier at least, it remains unclear if it's about Negav as a whole, swords and crossbows are much more common than firearms. We know that it has a dimensional gate of its own, not as powerful as the one near the ruins of Ur-Sagol though, and that they use it to have relationships with other worlds, as evidenced when they used it to assist Lord Gramon when he needed help repel the Telks attacking his homeworld. We know that Negav controls several large deposits of ascarlin in the nearby mountains, and that it's highly coveted in many worlds for its rarity and as an extremely potent magic amplifier, which Negav also uses as evidenced by the Dream Chamber.

With that in mind, let's start asking ourselves some questions. Does Negav seek out worlds they can trade with? If so, what type of world do they seek? I imagine it must be mostly magic-centric worlds since it's governed by a council of mages. What exactly they typically seek in these worlds? Is it an abundant resource? Is it already thriving markets with finished goods? Is it both? What is Negav's primary exports? Is it ascarlin? Is it something else? How are common markets handled in Negav? Do they typically order resources or part, which they use to craft whatever they sell? Do they usually order finished products? Does it depend on the store itself? I believe these warrant some thoughts.

Just a bit of clarification on what I mean by common markets, I mean typical stores you'd find outside of the Grand Market District and the Lower Market underground. Stores where Negavian do their groceries, buy their clothes, etc. Mundane stuff. And in the case of the Lower Tier, stores that cater specifically to adventurers, like weapon and armor shops, magic item stores, and so on. The way I see it, the Grand Market District is where you look for exotic goods. For instance, it's been brought up several times of someone from another world coming to Negav to sell its goods, possibly of real life modern or advanced technology. I believe this is where such things would be settled, as it seems like its market is completely separate from the smaller markets peppered around every districts. Otherwise, everything may as well be from the Grand Market District.

Those are the questions that I have about Negav's market and trade. Do you think that's a good start? What are your questions?

Ilceren wrote:

I think that the most important thing Negavians seek in other worlds is food. I don't see much reference in the Wiki to Negav having vast growing fields or farms where they keep animals. It's most probable that they have to buy their veggies and such from other worlds and the local food is just a small part of the total amount.

I always figured that is an area that Nekomura could shine in, Negav needs Felarya fruits for their smoothies and Nekomura needs money to maintain their version of the Isolon Eye. So Nekomura uses their land to farm animals and grow crops to sell to Negav and then spend the cash earned on the Isolon Eye, so the cash goes back to Negav.

It's all win for Negav, but of course not so much for Nekomura who would not make much profit from the whole thing. Of course on the otherhand it gives Nekomura a sure way to ensure their survival as a socitey rather than having to live everyday not knowing where the money for their next protection payment is going to come from.

Like Ilceren said, I think food is an important part of what Negav import and trade for. As for their exportations, well there is Ascarlin of course and the first thing that come to my mind are luxury items crafted from various precious materials that are found in abundance in Felarya. I think there must be an important industry of artisans, crafters and carvers specialized into just that.

That is a very good idea, I always liked to see Nekomuran as more adept at hunting food in the jungle than Negavians, and this takes perfect advantage of that.  Although I'd change it so that the food itself is the fee, since selling something for money and then giviing back the money you just earned seems redundant and an unnecessary step in this case.  If Negav does routinely trade with other worlds, whatever monetary profit they earn from Nekomura would be insignificant, so it would be more efficient to use the settlement as a glorified farm.  In the same vein, perhaps they do the same for the Motamo Docks, letting the predatory species they have no love for near the wall in exchange for providing them with food, maybe mostly fish.

I have a question, Karbo, how does Negav collect these precious materials?  Many of them like the scintilla and especially the eidoron rocks are found quite far from Negav and would be difficult to extract, like the eidoron rocks.  Would you say that whoever is in charge of those organizes parties specifically to collect the materials, outfitted with equipment that will up their chances of returning alive that typical adventurers don't normally have access to?  I think this would give jetbikes a good purpose.

Also, other points to address, what would be the kind of worlds Negav tries to stay in good contact with to get food and other necessities?  Would you then say that whatever stores order beyond necessities is entirely up to them?  Similarly, as Cliff suggested long ago, would you say that most small markets outside the Grand Market District and those that capitalizes on the influx of adventurers in the Lower Markets, focus mostly on necessities like food and clothes?

I read some more about the Belerim portal, and from it I learned something. Belerim's claim to fame is a dimensional network connected to dozens of other worlds. I don't think Negav would trade with the city itself, rather they would use the city's network to trade with all sorts of other worlds. I don't think Belerim itself would put restrictions on the governments of those worlds, since that would hurt profit and the city is led by greed, and instead put an exorbitant fee for using its network. Any form of trade restriction, however, would come from Negav's end. I have an hypothesis, however, that perhaps Negav make its markets more known to worlds with lower technology, where blades and bows are the norm, which would then be largely unknown to those dealing with high technology.

Negav organize expeditions to collect those materials yes. Or sometimes they use mercenaries.
I don't think there is an awful lot of worlds Negav is in relation with though. Belerim is essentially a hub that taxes a lot what goes through ( although this also depends on which of the families is in power at the moment ) and the magiocrats doesn't like that idea very much.
Moreover the magiocrats have a natural caution toward technology like you assumed. They would more naturally come forward to low-tech worlds that put a big emphasis on magic as they understand them better.
Of course that approach would be very different if the Vishmitals were in power.

Just for a bit of clarification cause I think this would be a great hook for potential stories, but when they use mercenaries, does the people in charge of the expedition (I assume they work for the government) post notices about needing experienced mercenaries to collect such and such resources, and do they lend them help, like access to a jetbike and a pilot for the duration of that particular task, or are they on their own. Or do the mercenaries simply there to protect those in charge of extracting the resource, or do their role vary a lot, like one person hires them to protect people, while another hires them to help gather the particular resource?

Ilceren wrote:

More than posting a notice so that anyone applies, wouldn't it be wiser to hand-pick the mercenaries for specific expeditions or tasks? Good mercenaries that do their work nicely would probably be widely known, or just a bit more than others, and the people in charge could select them without fear of them being total noobs.

Thats what the NMRB is for...I just need help in how it's going to work and figure out a not too complicated but thorough systems about how Mercenaries and PMC's get deployed like that.

What does PMC stand for, anyway? That's the first time I've seen this acronym. Anyway, I've checked the entry for the mercenary board and I think it's a little disorganized. The line about the definition of a mercenary and other things being blurry is right. For example, what distinguishes mercenaries from adventurers who frequent the adventurers' guild? Is it that mercenaries can take contracted work but adventurers can't? I think the definition of mercenaries could be anything in this context cause what's stopping certain people from hiring guys from the adventurers' guild?

I think it could be clarified that the board is mostly used by the government, sometimes the wealthy, for when they need mercs for certain jobs and need a frame of reference. It would explain why being registered is such a big deal in my opinion and why unregistered groups trying to take on the job would be seen as doing something illegal. The entry as a whole could be rewritten to get that point across first and foremost, and then add the fluff material. I'd personally omit the mention of mercenary tactics cause, when you think about it, whatever they do is completely up the author and isn't really related to the board itself.

To shady.

PMC Is a standing for (in that sentence) Private military companies. I'm actually quite surprised you haven't heard that. Anyways by my experience. You can send contractors or armed research teams to do the same job. Look for/explore/capture something. Since mercenaries are used for fighting, Me as the employer can look at the job getting done by typically well armed soldiers with military tactics that might survive and return that way even though they may not be the best cartogrophers or trackers. Or I can hire an adventurer that can get the job done by knowing how to find artifacts and what to look for so that i can see my prize fast or if not faster then the mercs, but I can see them dying fairly quick if they encountered something.

I realized that when i wrote it and it gave off the right impression it seems. It can and is supposed to look like a competitive buisness between guilds and mercs. As for who can hire and register...Anybody that wants to get paid really. Like i said in the topic thread. It can be a small squad for security measures in place to an army for large suppression operations or City/town/village defense or raiding if you want to get that unethical.

As for the rest of your suggestions i'd like a pm (Unless you find this relevant to the topic) so that i can fix some things up and not drown this discussion with my banter. Thanks for the advice on the thread, i'll take it with good consideration.

Never mind what I said about adventurers, I looked up the entry for the Adventurers' Guild and it looks more like a place that offer services to people who often leave the city and not really a private club for adventurers. My bad.

Yikes lots of threads. I like this.

For farmable food, I know of a particular piece of technology called "vertical farming" and the only reason why they're not built in todays world is due to the issue of being completely self powered, in the case of a blackout or some such problem. In Negav, this wouldn't be that much of an issue. Building a vertical farm high up into the air would supply tens of thousands of people with constant and fresh food. Aside from the power, which would be possible through magi-tech anyway, it's a really simple design, and I can see it used with Negav quite easily. It suits their "build up, not out" mentality.

Other materials for trade would be hard. The eye's influence only goes so far, and even the mines are dangerous. I do imagine they'd be heavily patrolled though. The ascarlin mountains would be home to mines for precious minerals and ores specific to Felarya, not just Ascarlin. Wood generally wouldn't be a valuable resource, but I think if the wood in Felarya has some unique effects, then it can be listed as a valuable resource, and make my ideas *ahem* for lumber mils scattered around outside the city walls *ahem* to also be sensical. (I don't mean mining trees though. That is not my idea, and totally separate)

I'm not sure about that last one, about the Ascarlin Mountains being home to all sorts of precious ores and minerals unique to Felarya. I supposed if you look hard enough you could find Felaryan Silver there, but some minerals like the Scintilla is found only in other areas, Scintilla being only found in the Pyrale Mountains, and other things like Pyralite and Boralite are more commonly found in the Pyrale Mountains and Frost Peak respectively. I find that having too many unique minerals in one place feels fake.

As for vertical farms, I think the city should have some, just so it can be self-sufficient to an extent. Otherwise the city would be just screwed if, really unlikely scenario, I know, the gate was destroyed one way or another.

That's why I said we'd adapt it a bit. The power system could be a large system of magitech batteries that amplify each other's power, and help to keep it constant, getting the water to flow could be normal tech (or Archimedes Screw), that's pretty basic - and the power produced could help get the water to reach higher points in the building, people to check on the plants growing, and maintain everything manually. There could be a domesticated dryad in the building connected to it all (I'm sure she'd love it) to help fertilize the soil. It'd be more man power, but the point is it can be done.

I think you'd have a bunch of systems and reactors all powered by tech in real life like you said. However, we don't need to be too specific about how it works anyway (the description above?), but the systems and power-providing parts would be substituted with magi-tech, and mention that for the basics. Anything else like filters (to help with poisonous gasses, ozone layer, etc, which are built into the VF designs) and compost, and other systems would be done naturally, or not included. Remember that Felarya isn't Earth, and so they'd be designed for such. That's our advantage with it, but I repeat myself.

Might I mention jobs though? I know Negav probably doesn't have employment issues, but still. Lots and lots of jobs for locals.

I'm not sure about the whole big magitech power thing. Recall that Karbo confirmed that Negav isn't as advanced as our world. At first it may sound like that they are just not as technologically advanced, but the thing is, magitech, technology powered by magic, is just a form that technology can take on and can indeed become more advanced than our real life technology. I don't disagree that they wouldn't use magitech, but I don't think it would be as efficient as you describe to keep the whole "less advanced, pre-industrial society" setting. Personally, if there would be such vertical farms, I think they would be glorified greenhouses, the magitech part used to emulate an environment for the crops to grow, and everything else requiring manual labor. Although that doesn't address the other part of farms, which is raising animals.

Possibly, yes, but suppose maybe, that the vishmitals could lend some power-generator technology? Either that or we find an alternative.

Indeed though vertical farms cant farm everything. Some crops and animals aren't suited for that type of thing. It's not out of the question though, and easily done manually. Especially if we cut out many of the mechanized functions and change them to manual, less power overall would be needed.

Are there any pieces of tech available that could get solar power? That'd work real nice.

edit: Singapore currently houses the world's first vertical farm, and they're only 3 feet tall, but they plan on building about 2,000 of them. wow!

You know, going back to Karbo mentioning an important industry of Negav being artisans, carvers, and all around people specializing in crafting, it could be pertinent about the people of Negav themselves. We already know that magic is an important aspect about their culture and society, but craft being an important industry could be equally an important aspect of their culture. Perhaps they view the quality of crafts in high regard, and thus most Negavians are not as easily fooled by conmen trying to sell them shoddy or fake items, unless they're very good replicas.

Shady Knight wrote:

You know, going back to Karbo mentioning an important industry of Negav being artisans, carvers, and all around people specializing in crafting, it could be pertinent about the people of Negav themselves.  We already know that magic is an important aspect about their culture and society, but craft being an important industry could be equally an important aspect of their culture.  Perhaps they view the quality of crafts in high regard, and thus most Negavians are not as easily fooled by conmen trying to sell them shoddy or fake items, unless they're very good replicas.

...which would only further show how skilled the conmen must be. I agree though. That's a possibility. We still need something that Negav could export, though, and not ascarlin. That stuff is extremely rare and even more valuable. They cant export off that alone.

Unless crafting also pertains to making magitech and various other equipment. Maybe they'd import a few materials, then use native ones with them, to make unique tech?