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 Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!

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jedi-explorer
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PostSubject: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:53 pm

Ah sorry folks my mind wondered a moment cause of my new found ...interests...Ahem! But anywho I searched for this twice and found nothing so just gonna blunty ask: Is slavery legal in Negav in any form? Just need to know for a chapter of Clare's Quest and Meanwhile in Negav. Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:36 pm

Slavery is legal in Balfrezzag, but I think Negav turns a blind eye toward it - as in there's other things they focus on, but they don't support slavery. I don't know if there's a law against it, however.
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:58 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Slavery is legal in Balfrezzag, but I think Negav turns a blind eye toward it - as in there's other things they focus on, but they don't support slavery. I don't know if there's a law against it, however.

We really need to get some general idea of laws in Negav and taboo too. Sounds like though it'd be possible to do what I'm thinking of in the more lawless sectors of the city.
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:03 pm

Slavery is, to my knovvledge, completely legal in Negav. It is officially in the underground regions, vvith slave markets and a booming slave economy, though it vvould be perfectly reasonable to have slave markets in the highest tier of Negav as vvell. Of course, getting those supplies of slaves is the part vvhere you enter a shady legal area...
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:37 am

Let me give my two cents on it.  Like Amaroq said, slavery is legal in the Underground.  But, looking at his revision, it is at its most common in the lower depths if the place, where the absolute poorest of the poor live.  It also says, and I quote, "The law(s) and rules of Negav aren't worth a skevol in this twisted maze of stone and the rare guards patrolling this area are either in constant fear of being ambushed, or involved in some shady business themselves."  Given that this is where the only real human slave market is mentioned, it implies that the only place where slavery is technically legal is in the depths of the underground.

Which leads me to believe that aboveground and in the upper areas of the Underground, slavery is in fact illegal, as it should be.  Does it mean it never happens?  No, cause so many writers have done it, usually involving the nobility because blatantly corrupt aristocrats are all the rage.  But the catch is that, even in those cases, the slaves were kept secret, further hinting at the criminal nature of slavery in Negav.  Furthermore, ask yourself this: what does Negav need slaves for?  Last I checked, Negav's aboveground economy is pretty solid.  It's got decent magitechnology to sustain its population and military power.  I just don't see what your Average Joe would need slaves for.  Compared to the lower parts of the Underground, it's literally described as an "underground city jungle, where only the quickest, wittiest and strongest survive."  Given the absolute shit condition of living in that place, it makes sense that some of the strongest gangs there would use slave for whatever manual labor they do down there.

tl;dr: I don't see slavery being legal aboveground and in the upper underground, but it's definitely "legal" in the depths of the lower underground.

Anyway, that was my two cents.

Oh, that reminds me. Bael, I don't think Balfrezagg is a good example. For one, it's not listed among the worlds connected to Negav's gate, so we can surmise that Negav has no means of interacting with the place. And even if it were connected to the gate somehow, it probably wouldn't make a difference because, among those worlds is Hweg Varr, which is so xenophobic that they set up all sorts of traps and defenses around one of its gates to keep anything from ever entering the place. With that in mind, remember that Balfrezagg is an even bigger hell hole than even Felarya is. Its technology level is low, it has next to no valuable resources, and overall, there's just nothing there that Negav would realistically desire, unless all that desert sand somehow has incredible properties on par with Felarya's soil, which it probably doesn't.
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:01 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Which leads me to believe that aboveground and in the upper areas of the Underground, slavery is in fact illegal, as it should be.  Does it mean it never happens?  No, cause so many writers have done it, usually involving the nobility because blatantly corrupt aristocrats are all the rage.  But the catch is that, even in those cases, the slaves were kept secret, further hinting at the criminal nature of slavery in Negav.  Furthermore, ask yourself this: what does Negav need slaves for?  Last I checked, Negav's aboveground economy is pretty solid.  It's got decent magitechnology to sustain its population and military power.  I just don't see what your Average Joe would need slaves for.  Compared to the lower parts of the Underground, it's literally described as an "underground city jungle, where only the quickest, wittiest and strongest survive."  Given the absolute shit condition of living in that place, it makes sense that some of the strongest gangs there would use slave for whatever manual labor they do down there.

This is pretty much how I see it. Shady is being far more eloquent than I.

On that note, I always assumed Magiocrats hearts are in the right places, but governing Negav is probably a mess, so they are indeed corrupt but not super cruel totalitarians. Several council members, which you read about on the wiki will tell you how some of them are actually pretty decent people. Humanity looks at Lesona as your typical Magiocrat council member.

As for Balfrezzag that's odd, I always thought it was. Oh well, too late. Though Lea is from Balfrezzag, so its still relevant in my opinion. Thanks for pointing that out, however...

edit: it appears to have an entry on the Versology page under "worlds accessible through negav's portal" and the section "other worlds" is meant to say its connected to Felarya, just not directly through the portal.
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:45 am

Shady Knight wrote:
what does Negav need slaves for?  Last I checked, Negav's aboveground economy is pretty solid.  It's got decent magitechnology to sustain its population and military power.  I just don't see what your Average Joe would need slaves for.  .

In all fairness, a slave is worth far more than population sustenance and military might. They're also good with tasks like manual labor, luring our preds who want to kill you (so you can make an escape yourself) or any job where magitek isn't the most versatile. Some do it because they get a kick out of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:53 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:

On that note, I always assumed Magiocrats hearts are in the right places, but governing Negav is probably a mess, so they are indeed corrupt but not super cruel totalitarians. Several council members, which you read about on the wiki will tell you how some of them are actually pretty decent people. Humanity looks at Lesona as your typical Magiocrat council member.

This is true. Many try to write every Magiocrat as evil or corrupt but we can see some are shewd but good poeple and some are neutrally aligned. ^^; It's weird when you think about cause according to the new time line many of the Council should be heroic since they did lead the charge on the Ascarlin Mines to drive away the harpies. Granted allot of them were eaten but at least some succeeded.

Pendragon wrote:
Some do it because they get a kick out of it.
Or want it to be done to them because they do~ Wink

Okay sense we're on the topic what about special citizenship for 'servants'. I mean we know the upper classes have servants. I ask because while writing Jarvis, the Neko Butler as some may know him, I was trying to figure out how one could tell a neko servant from a low born neko or a slave neko? I thought about weirdly Tywin Lanister's 'King's Hand Pin". What if you had something shiny like that pinned to one's clothing to show that you had special dispensation to be in the upper areas. Doesn't mean you'd be treated well but it would mean that at least some humans might hesitate before picking a fight with a neko wearing a pin like that or might ignore his presence altogether. It could have a part to show which House of Psi'ol employed ya too. Be stylish AND useful.
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:09 am

jedi-explorer wrote:
It's weird when you think about cause according to the new time line many of the Council should be heroic since they did lead the charge on the Ascarlin Mines to drive away the harpies.

Those mines are worth a lot of money, so I could see some decidedly un-heroic types leading such a charge for personal interests. Kudos to them for being willing to do their own dirty work, but that's still not necessarily heroic.
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:40 am

Preeeetty sure "laws" governing how butlers and such get hired are the exact same as the ones here on Earth. You're really overthinking this, jedi. Really, just use your imagination. You want your neko butler to have a badge of identification? Go right ahead, there's nothing stopping you from doing that. Not every single minute detail about this setting need to have a guideline, you know.
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:34 am

Shady Knight wrote:
Not every single minute detail about this setting need to have a guideline, you know.

Unless the minute detail just happens to take your interest.
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PostSubject: Re: Chains, Collars and...Wait a Second!   Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:44 am

Pretty sure solidifying Negav's technological level, its economy and all that jazz, and how someone becomes a butler, i.e. someone's employee, are two different things. As in, not even remotely close.
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