History of the Naga and Felarya

How long have Naga been around (subjectively)?

I read somewhere on the wiki that dimensions are constantly being 'attached', per se, to parts of Felarya, and that this is where most of the explorers come from (Felarya having no geographical location)
Since this would allow different dimensions from different times to attach themselves to Felarya, how can you tell how much time has elapsed since the beginning of Felarya?
Is Felarya just a timeless home for the Guardians and the Naga and other races there for their pleasure? (Sort of like a pocket-dimension for the mythical creatures)
I think a article on the origins of Felarya would help alot to storywriters, and generally expand the universe.

What are the origins of the Naga?
How did they come to be? Since they're part human and part snake, are they a combination of the two, or are humans and snakes a 'lesser' form of naga(something like a Naga splitting into a human and a snake) Or were they created on a whim by one of the guardians?

I would definitely like to hear the wiki editor's and Karbo's thoughts on this.

Well, personally I've always held the theory that all giant part human predators spawned from a common ancestor.

It's bloody impossible for a human creature to survive at that size. It just can't be done without totally rewriting the entire inner workings. And if you did that, then logically speaking, fairies would have imeasurable strength at their human size simply because they would be so solidly built.
Because of this, logically speaking, fairy size changing magic involves some sort of dimensional rapage which somehow enlarges every single aspect of the host at once, effectively manipulating reality to the point where they exist at a giant size exactly as they would at a human size.

This in mind, it's only logical that all giant humanoid predators share this trait. Logically speaking, this would mean that they all stemmed from a common ancestor.

Maybe some sort of genetically unstable giant human species which altered its DNA to incorporate elements of different animals in order to survive. It would have to be magically or genetically engineered and thus not a natural product of evolution(that goes without saying) but it's the best idea I can think of.

At the first sight all the creature can have a common ancestor but the problem due the unstable nature of Felarya. The concept of "Evolution" as we know on Earth is very different, there are many things we don't find on Earth etc... and the world seems in permanent change due to the many dimensional links with many different worlds.

Maybe the nagas can come from another worlds as the case of Katrika or Aurora and maybe Vivian or are pure native or like Anna was human before.

It's possible a race has different origins.

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At the first sight all the creature can have a
common ancestor but the problem due the unstable nature of Felarya. The
concept of "Evolution" as we know on Earth is very different, there are
many things we don't find on Earth etc... and the world seems in
permanent change due to the many dimensional links with many different
worlds.

Yes, that's exactly what I just finished explaining. Except broader.

Quote :

Maybe the nagas can come from another worlds
as the case of Katrika or Aurora and maybe Vivian or are pure native or
like Anna was human before.

I find it reasonably likely that just about all Felaryan species are alien, seeing as how Felarya itself is less of its own dimension than it is an unstable crossroads between worlds.

Well it does says in the wiki that most of its fauna and flora weren't originally part of it, and actually comes from many other world. After all, the only way it could connect with every dimansions is to be at the very center of the universe.

GREGOLE wrote:

I find it reasonably likely that just about all Felaryan species are alien, seeing as how Felarya itself is less of its own dimension than it is an unstable crossroads between worlds.

Yeah, we add too the fact there are native species too but their evolutions was affected when they met the alien species and evolve in a different way. So many creatures of Felarya result from strange hybridizations which were possible due to the particularities of the world too

i think that everyone was human at one point.

Humans could of evolved into hybrid races, "nagas, dridders, dryads. ect" I find it believable becuase everyone upper body is basically the same. Maybe the magic in Felarya caused mankind to evolve into different species depending on their surroundings.

You never know!!!!.


I dont have this theory into my story becuase its such a big statement of Felarya that i would need so many ppl to agree with it, and it would cause a lot arguments,

Origin of the nagas ? Well that's very hard to answer... They were sure here much before Ur-Sagol though, and Trejal is one of the oldest being in Felarya and he is one of them.. you do the maths

The way I see it, Felarya is, as GREGOLE pointed out, less of its own dimension than it is a "dumping ground" and "crossroad" for bits and pieces of other dimensions across the multiverse.

Given the infinite nature of the multiverse, that means we could be dealing with dimensions far beyond the ken of humans - places where (potentially) laws of physics do not function as they do on Earth, if at all. Notice, though, that despite the potential for this, most of the pieces that Felarya "borrows" from other universes tends to exhist more-or-less compatibly.

This can be explained by 2 potential things: either Felarya only "takes" portions of other universe that jive just enough with its own physics to be compatible (highly unlikely, given the number of cross-planar/dimension-warping/probability-altering/split-between-multiple-reality creatures that exist there), or Felarya is capable of supporting multiple sets of physical laws at one time (much more likely - this essentially means that, if you come from somewhere other than Felarya itself, you bring your own laws of physics with you.)

The Wiki states that Felarya is highly magic-rich. If there's one thing all the fantasy literature I've read has taught me, it's that on a world described as "magic-rich," prepare for the unexpected. The more "magic-rich" the world is, the more wild and crazy things get. Felarya seems to be a fairly extreme example that this axiom holds true.

Now, take a situation like that, draw it out over hundreds, thousands, maybe millions (hey, is Felarya millions of years old?) of years, and you can see that, after awhile, a whole lot of weird stuff is possible. Take a look at gwadahunter2222's point:

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Yeah, we add too the fact there are native species too but their evolutions was affected when they met the alien species and evolve in a different way. So many creatures of Felarya result from strange hybridizations which were possible due to the particularities of the world too

Now imagine the idea of hybridizing not only species, but also potentially entire laws-of-physics rulesets. I guarantee you weird crap happens at that point, which would explain a whole lot about Felarya as a whole (those funky illusions at the center of the Lake of Illusions, for instance. That screwy, nigh-invulnerable planar gate outside Ur-Sagol that connects to damn well anywhere. The existence of a widely eclectic array of terrains arranged in places near one another where they just could not occur unless the natural order of things was seriously wacked.)

The possibilities? Endless. COMPREHENSION! IT DOES NOTHING!!

As for the specific origin of nagas... hard to say. It's debatable whether they're native or not, they could have been a very, very old import to the world that just happened to stick around because the place was nice. They seem to have been screwed with by the world's funky physics just as much as (or maybe even more than) everything else, given that just about every naga is a little "special" in some way.

They're certainly possible, if you accept the idea of multiple laws of physics operating at once. It would explain how huge humanoid creatures like nagas, giantesses, and the giant faeries can exist without collapsing under their own weight, and why tinies' toughness doesn't scale with their size according to the square-cube rule - giant-preds and tinies are simply operating under different laws of physics than human-sized creatures. It would also explain why imported technology from other worlds functions more-or-less normally, within the general constraints of Felarya's environment (the rusting metal weapons of the Delurans, for instance, is apparently just their weapons reacting normally to the moist, water-rich atmosphere of most of Felarya. Maybe they should consider moving to the desert regions and living in hovering mobile bases, a la Bartz's crew in Xenogears.)

Naturally, my hypothesis means spit if the Creators of the World and Powers that Be decide to say so. But this, to me, seems the most plausible reasoning behind Felarya's unusual environs and residents.

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Now imagine the idea of hybridizing not only species, but also potentially entire laws-of-physics rulesets.
I guarantee you weird crap happens at that point, which would explain a
whole lot about Felarya as a whole (those funky illusions at the center
of the Lake of Illusions, for instance. That screwy, nigh-invulnerable
planar gate outside Ur-Sagol that connects to damn well anywhere. The
existence of a widely eclectic array of terrains arranged in places
near one another where they just could not occur unless the natural
order of things was seriously wacked.)

The possibilities? Endless. COMPREHENSION! IT DOES NOTHING!!

As for the specific origin of nagas... hard to say. It's debatable whether they're native or not, they could have been a very, very
old import to the world that just happened to stick around because the
place was nice. They seem to have been screwed with by the world's
funky physics just as much as (or maybe even more than) everything
else, given that just about every naga is a little "special" in some
way.

They're certainly possible, if you accept the idea of
multiple laws of physics operating at once. It would explain how huge
humanoid creatures like nagas, giantesses, and the giant faeries can
exist without collapsing under their own weight, and why tinies'
toughness doesn't scale with their size according to the square-cube
rule - giant-preds and tinies are simply operating under different laws
of physics than human-sized creatures. It would also explain why
imported technology from other worlds functions more-or-less normally,
within the general constraints of Felarya's environment (the rusting
metal weapons of the Delurans, for instance, is apparently just their
weapons reacting normally to the moist, water-rich atmosphere of most
of Felarya. Maybe they should consider moving to the desert regions and
living in hovering mobile bases, a la Bartz's crew in Xenogears.)

Well, that ties into my dimensional rapage based theory on fairy size changing magic. And since it's compatible with my theories, that automatically makes it true. Cause I'm always right and stuff.

Nervan wrote:

...(hey, is Felarya millions of years old?)...

Akaptor desert (http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Akaptor_desert) explicitly says "millenia ago" and describes dinosaur like creatures, so it seems highly likely that Felarya has existed for a very long time. Exactly how long is unknown, and depends on what exactly Felarya is.





(The following should be taken with very large gains of salt, as it is pure speculation on my part.)

It could be that the highly dimensionally unstable area that Felaray occupies is a natural part of the universe, existing since the Big Bang/Creation, which would then imply that the planet Felarya formed shortly afterwards, probably out of debris that "fell" though the various instabilities.
It could also be that Felarya was until relatively recently a normal planet that somehow underwent some sort of dimensional disaster that created the various portals and "portal storms". This would imply that it would be a few billion years old like the Earth, old enough for advanced multi-cellular to evolve.

If you are willing to consider more "extreme" examples, then it's age could be just about anything you want. If Felarya is a living creature in and of itself (and presumably creates and controls the portals, for reasons unknown) it's probably not as old as if it were a regular planet.
Because it is so dimensionally unstable it might exist outside of any universe; perhaps it has "hopped" eternally from one universe to another as the various universes "die" (by heat death, Big Crunch, Big Rip, etc). That would mean it's infinitely old!
Paradoxically, if you allow for time travel then Felarya might not have been created yet!

(End wild, unsubstantiated speculation. Stop taking those large grains of salt, that much sodium is bad for your blood pressure. )

Can't believe I missed that. Good eye, Oldman40k. So Felarya is at least one, and quite possibly more, millenia old. I figured, in an environment with so many variables as Felarya, a million or so years ought to be more than enough time to see some evolutionary adaptations in the older species. Given that Nagas are, as Karbo pointed out, among the oldest species in Felarya, they should be due for some evolutionary branching out and division. And lo and behold - there are no less than four known major types of Naga, and even among more-or-less standard Nagas, there's the variety of elemental affinities between them (elemental affinities that are more than just personal preferences, I might add; they're actual physical changes in coloration, emotional and mental traits, and physical capability.)

It seems pretty clear to me - Nagas are an old species, but by no means washed up. In fact, they seem to be just entering their evolutionary heydey, and if trends continue, I'd expect to see much wilder Naga breeds that what currently exist over the next couple centuries. It's still difficult to speculate on their exact origins, but due to their sheer age it could actually be quite likely that they're genuine native organisms. At the very least, they've been calling Felarya "home" for such long-time residents that they're the closest thing to nativel that anyone can readily identify.

Alright, see that hat? Right there, in that ring? I just threw it there.

Alright, the first thing to remember, (And this confuses me just a bit) is that Felarya is a dimension in in of itself. Felarya is it's own universe. But Felarya is just a planet, with no space around it. A self contained universe/planet/dimension. But it is connected to all other dimensions each of which contain a universe of it's own. Now, this means Felarya is the nexus of what's known as the multiverse. The multiverse contains all the dimensions, of which there are infinate. Each universe differs only slightly from the last, but because they are infinate, they eventually differ greatly from each other. (Wow, this is confusing me, and I'm the one trying to explain it) Now, for each universe, time is also infinate in each direction. Meaning, although life appears at a certain point, the universe existed before then. Now I believe this means Felarya has always existed in some form, but it would have been drastically different back then. Probably more barren.

Some very interesting theories here ! I especially liked the law of physic hybridation idea ^_^

GREGOLE wrote:

And since it's compatible with my theories, that automatically makes it true. Cause I'm always right and stuff.

I know these little phrases are mean as a joke and once in a while can be fun to pull. But using these repeatedly can become annoying for others members ... I'll be grateful if you avoid using these too much please ^^;

Does this qualify me as the local crackpot theoretical physicist yet?

Your points are pretty valid, Silent_eric. Felarya is its own universe, infinitely connected, reconnected, cross-connected, triple-connected, and WTFPWN-connected to the rest of the multiverse. That's multiverse - includes all those other universes floating about out there. Sometimes, it bridges itself to other universes, allowing for visitors to wander from their multiverse into Felarya, or from Felarya into another universe. Typically this is temporary, though that permanent gate outside Ur-Sagol is a pesky exemption (it also seems to be a deliberate, artificial creation, the product of some seriously sublime dimension-magic, which would explain its ability to hold up for so long.) Felarya might not have been more barren (depending on how you define "barren" - keep in mind that Felarya's penchant for bestowing limited immortality upon its residents means that this world ought to be awful good at producing life) but it certainly would lack the eclectic variety of residents it has today.

Sometimes, Felarya goes a step further and actually takes a chunk out of another universe and plops it down back home, along with any residents, materials, and potentially even the laws of physics surrounding the area. This is what happened to the Jungle Bowl, apparently. I have no idea what happens to the previous Felaryan terrain which occupies the area - is it simply squished beneath the new stuff (becoming a brand new underground) or is the replacement a genuine swap, with the previous occupant being shunted into the space the new terrain used to occupy in its own dimension?

If it's the former, then Felarya is essentially ever-growing, eating bits and pieces off of other universes in order to expand. It would also mean that Felarya's fossil record would be an unreliable source of data, as there's no way to tell (after a few million years, anyway) whether the soil strata you're looking at is native Felaryan, or stolen from some other universe. Taken to the extreme, it might mean that there is no such thing as "native Felaryan ground." It could be that all of Felarya's landmass, and indeed it's water, air, and various species as well, could consist of borrowed material. At this point, guessing anything about Felarya's history, without reliable written record or a first-person account from someone who's survived through it all, would be basically a crapshoot. Good f'narghin' luck, historians.

Now, if it's the latter, then Felarya is more-or-less consistent in size, only changing in composition as pieces are swapped in and out between other universes and Felarya. Chances are good that some native Felaryan soil remains, somewhere. It also raises the likelyhood of native Felaryan creatures a bit, although it's still entirely possible for the initial living creatures of Felarya to have been brought here by a temporary portal or landswap. It also has other, potentially dire ramifications for the rest of the multiverse. When a dimensional landswap occurs, Felarya gets your landmass, you get Felarya's. As well as any of the dangerous critters that might be living there, assuming they can survive their new home. If they can, congratulations - your world just got a whole friggin' load more dangerous.

Either way you go, you're going to give archaeologists and historians on Felarya fits. It's a wonder they can maintain a coherent history at all. Back on topic, this means that finding out the exact history and origin of nagas, or just about anything else that's been on Felarya for a long time, is going to be a pain in the squeerg.

That all makes perfect sense - er... as much sense as something like this can make.

To be frank, I actually like the idea of not knowing where nagas and other giant predators came from. Our established laws of physics and reality say such creatures can't exist. Knowing that, it increases the feel of awe and mystery when we see that they do.

From a scientific standpoint it's dissatisfying, but from an artistic standpoint, it's downright perfect for Felarya's mystique. Blurrs the line between fantasy and sci-fi and generally works wonders.

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I know these little phrases are mean as a joke and once in a while can be fun to pull. But using these repeatedly can become annoying for others members ... I'll be grateful if you avoid using these too much please ^^;

I suppose you're right. It's getting less fun anyway.

Katrika-"Duh?"

Tanya-"Ok! Now you lot have gone and done it! Katrika's over-heated her brain trying to keep up with this thread! All I can add to this subject is that Londorean Nagas are rumoured to have be created artifically. Wether it's true or not I don't know. I don't think its really important. Its too cruel to Katrika even for me to consider investigating-at least until the rewards are worth the effort."

(The possibilities are endless and VERY interesting!! )

*holds two hands on his temples and two more cover his mouth*

Gaaah! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt anyone with theoretical physics and archaeology! Honest! Poor Katrika, anything I can do to make it better? Interesting tidbit of info about Londorean nagas, though. I'd ponder the ramifications, but... not if it's gonna hurt cute lil' Katrika further.

Hilary-"*pats Katrika on the head* Don't think about it anymore. You are who you and no one can change that. So don't worry about what's all been said.

Well, I know my parents were born on Felarya, but I don't know about my ancestors. So I could be considered a native for the time being. Also, Air Nagas prefer open spaces like plains. It gives us more freedom of our movements. That's why I'm always in the Bulvon Woods, it's so thick there this is the perfect training spot for me to become much more agile, just like Crisis. *big grin and blush*"

*Notes down in his little =][= book*
Bulvan Woods... Bulvon... Bul... is it 'van' or 'von'?

'Center' of the Multiverse sounds... wrong. It defines Universes and such as taking up a specific space, having sides, etc. Though considering I don't know any words for "Connected to just about every single infinite plane over a finite space", Center will have to do.

Personally, I'd think something like Dridders, Slug-Girls, etc would have evolved before Naga's (At least on an evolutionary scale). Mollusks and insects are much more 'simple' animals than Vertebrates.

Thought: Could there be some native Felaryan beasts in the absolute depths of the ocean that havn't been effected by the 'imported' creatures? If so, wonder what they'd look like.

Well, if you don't like the term "center," perhaps "hub" or "crossroads" might work better for you? Although really it boils down to semantics, "rose by any other name" and all that.

*strokes his chin with the middle-right arm and scratches his head with the upper-right hand*

You have a point about Dridders and Slug-girls being related to more primal organisms than reptiles, but bear in mind that all three races (Naga, Dridder, and Slug-girl) are part-humanoid. It's just as likely that all three races could have manifested human characteristics at about the same time. Either conclusion would be pure speculation at this point, unless there's some facts I've missed.

On a side-note, this might not be a safe topic to explore very much further; I highly doubt either Nagas or Dridders would appreciate being compared to one another, no matter how logical the argument might be. Keep in mind the ancient Naga/Dridder feud.

On another note, your thought about possibly exploring the seas for primal Felaryan life might hold merit, but I'm a tad doubtful. Unless I miss my guess, the seas of Felarya are just as subject to dimensional shifts as its land... although...

*ponders*

If the seas were just as prone to random dimension shifts as land, would Felarya be as moisture-rich as it is now? Right now, water's pretty plentiful, both as condensed surface water, and as water vapor. The rusting of the Deluran humans' weapons are a prime example of the effects of this. If random dimension shifts occurred underwater, it'd stand to reason that Felarya could constantly be losing water to shifts that connected undersea locations in Felarya to non-undersea locations in other universes.

Of course, the flipside of that coin is that Felarya could just as easily gain water by the same method, worked in reverse, but I highly doubt it could maintain a more-or-less homeostatic condition, which is currently what exists on Felarya. Random is random, after all.

That leaves two other possibilities: either dimension shifts do not occur underwater (which would make your thought on searching the seas a good option, Malahite), or dimension shifts do occur, but aren't quite as random as advertised; in example, an undersea dimension shift would always connects to an undersea location on another world, while land dimension shifts would always lead to other landmasses. If the latter is true, you'd also have to consider whether an underground dimension shift would lead to an underground area in another world, and if aerial dimension shifts occur, do they lead to the airspace over worlds in other universes?

Admittedly, this is all speculation on my part, but right now, speculation's all we've got to go on. It does raise some interesting possibilities, however.

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That leaves two other possibilities: either
dimension shifts do not occur underwater (which would make your thought
on searching the seas a good option, Malahite), or dimension shifts do
occur, but aren't quite as random as advertised; in example, an
undersea dimension shift would always connects to an undersea location
on another world, while land dimension shifts would always lead to
other landmasses. If the latter is true, you'd also have to consider
whether an underground dimension shift would lead to an underground
area in another world, and if aerial dimension shifts occur, do they
lead to the airspace over worlds in other universes?

There's always the possibility that maybe the water levels fluxuate all the time.

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Personally, I'd think something like Dridders,
Slug-Girls, etc would have evolved before Naga's (At least on an
evolutionary scale). Mollusks and insects are much more 'simple'
animals than Vertebrates.

That doesn't really make sense. Spiders and snakes have already evolved. Nagas and dridders more than likely evolved at roughly the same point in time from the same ancestor. Seeing as how snakes and spiders are pre-established creatures and the only reasonable explaination for nagas and dridders involves somehow a humanoid species assimilating the DNA from other species, it stands to reason that the two came at roughly the same point in time.

Since giants are a rare species, maybe they're the original ancestors? Maybe something occured to destabilize their genes and somehow blended their kind with various animals.

If you wannt get WAY out there, one could reason that giants came to Felarya via dimensional shifting but were destabilized by it and were either forced to blend themselves with animals to survive or else through unexplainable dimensional physics, somehow merged with them.

Hell, maybe they just merged with their pets? Would explain why we have catgirls but not tigergirls.

GREGOLE wrote:

There's always the possibility that maybe the water levels fluxuate all the time.

D'oh, that's true. Why didn't I consider that? Y'know, given that Felarya's sky is inconsistent and there is no outer space beyond it, shifts in the water level due to connections with other universes could explain Felarya's "tides." (I remember reading somewhere here on the forums that Mermaids measure time by counting tides.)