Ranks, Titles and Hierarchy of Alchemists

While talking to Asaenvolk about Alchemists in Felarya, I brought up the topic of titles and ranks.
It seems to me that Alchemists shouldn't be ranked in the same way as magi and other magic users. (Archalchemist is a bit of a mouthful).
Instead, Alchemists should have titles according to their achievements in the alchemic arts.
Some achievements that we came up with that deserve titles.

1. Make a philosopher stone
   
2. Make a lesser philosopher stone
   
3. Raise the dead (outside Felarya)
   
4. Create artificial life
   
5. Create a chimaera
   
6. Transmute magic metals
   

For example, making a philosopher's stone, one of the hardest things to achieve would earn one the title "The Enlightened."

Doing lesser alchemy on a much larger scale would also earn a title.
For example, an alchemist who made a perfect strength potion on a huge scale would earn the title "Fortuitous"

So an Alchemist named 'Jascob' who has done both these examples would be titled "The Enlightened Fortuitous Jascob."
This seems a bit long, but I imagine that alchemists take great pride in their titles. The more titles, the more prestigious the Alchemist.

(One of the amusing things about this method of titles is that some alchemists would insist on all their titles being announced during the assembly of alchemists. Which (as you can imagine) would lead some to tell them to just get on with it.)

oh yeah, I can totaly see them do that with all the pomp and ceremony of the well accomplished.

Also in addition to titles we had ways we thought you should address Alchemists which is different than magi

So it works like this Title, name, alchemist rank OR Learned Vanderan Master alchemist

The 3 basic ranks being apprentice alchemist, alchemist, master alchemist, with nothing higher than master, once you reach that point you start to collect titles.

I like asaenvolk's idea.

What if the title for alchemists qho raised the dead was "Dread", i.e. Dread Varius Initiate?

you realize when we mean raise the dead, we don't mean as undead.

Yeah, but it would still be something pretty horrible to do - after all, if you've died horribly and are now in the afterlife, the last thing you want is to be brought back to life and have to do it all over again.

Besides, even if it's not for raising the dead, "Dread" still sounds like an awesome title.

So, wait, Felarya Alchemists are pretty much carbon copies of Full Metal Alchemist alchemists, but with a higher average tier (Chimera Making being near bottom) of power?

I can agree with making a philosopher's stone near the top. While not exactly impressive with Felarya, it is impressive in both implications and the fact that - should one leave Felarya - they're set for life and would probably have entire kingdoms put to the torch for their knowledge.

What does Felaryan Philosopher's Stone do?

Sean Okotami wrote:

What does Felaryan Philosopher's Stone do?

If anything like a normal, you can change an element from one substance to another. The implications of being able to do even the most basic "Lead = Gold" and permanently are huge from a magic-only standpoint.

Is it like you open it and it has a liquid that changes elements?

No alchemists are not like whats in FMA, alchemy is a slower magic for the most part. Potion making is a big part of alchemy, transmutations would be too, but at a higher level. Also in FMA they had the "Law of Equivalent exchange", well.... NEVER EXISTED! that was created for the sole purpose of the anime, and in many ways runs counter to some of the core ideas behind alchemy.

As for what a philosopher stone does, well it does a number of things, the LEAST of which is metal transmutations, which by the time you can make one you should be able to do anywise, a philosopher stone would just make it fast. The truth is that changing base mater is just the proverbial tip of the iceberg with a philosopher stone, the ultimate goal is to produce Azoth, which a true philosopher stone could do, but a lesser stone might only do once. As for what Azoth could do? Raise the dead, stop you for aging for a while, or even forever, help you attain a form of virtual immortality, heal any wound, etc ect.

Truth is any given philosopher stone should be somewhat unique and different, no one ever being created exactly the same way. The process of making a philosopher stone is as much a spiritual journey as it is a process of formulas.

asaenvolk wrote:

No alchemists are not like whats in FMA, alchemy is a slower magic for the most part. Potion making is a big part of alchemy, transmutations would be too, but at a higher level. Also in FMA they had the "Law of Equivalent exchange", well.... NEVER EXISTED! that was created for the sole purpose of the anime, and in many ways runs counter to some of the core ideas behind alchemy.

FMA was only used as an example, and even then, we're talking about the achievements of the alchemists, not the alchemic processes themselves. Transmutation circles were created to make things interesting in the anime and that's it. Equivalent exchange never existed in FMA either,

Spoiler:

A big achievement that you haven't taken into account is the creation of a homunculus. (FMA notwithstanding) It was a central goal of alchemy in real life as well, though I've read the supposed formula for one once, and it made me vomit.

asaenvolk wrote:

As for what a philosopher stone does, well it does a number of things, the LEAST of which is metal transmutations, which by the time you can make one you should be able to do anywise, a philosopher stone would just make it fast. The truth is that changing base mater is just the proverbial tip of the iceberg with a philosopher stone, the ultimate goal is to produce Azoth, which a true philosopher stone could do, but a lesser stone might only do once. As for what Azoth could do? Raise the dead, stop you for aging for a while, or even forever, help you attain a form of virtual immortality, heal any wound, etc ect.

Truth is any given philosopher stone should be somewhat unique and different, no one ever being created exactly the same way. The process of making a philosopher stone is as much a spiritual journey as it is a process of formulas.

It depends what kind of alchemy we're talking about, but in either case, creating a true philosopher's stone is impossible, because you cant create something from nothing (whether or not the cost is equivalent or not). You cant just "not age" and not pay any kind of price for it, if the philosopher's stone halts the aging process, it has to use some kind of material to halt the process, and that material is not infinite.

Alchemy also has astrology, spiritual, and natural (herblore) elements as well. Alchemy is also dense in symbolism, and conversion from lead into gold exists on the spiritual level as well as on the physical for it.

Azoth is the universal solvent/medicine, and supposedly a key to immortality. Or so says alchemy, and it sounds a lot like the soil's property in Felarya, so creation of "a" stone would be possible, but point is it wouldn't be possible to have a perfect stone, because it is physically impossible to have it. A pencil can't write forever, nor can anything else last forever.

As a suggestion I think you should include various titles for all the aspects of alchemy if you're going to do it at all. Phsyical, Spiritual, Natural, Astronomical aspects should be included.

-sorry for the lengthy post

Archmage_Bael wrote:

As a suggestion I think you should include various titles for all the aspects of alchemy if you're going to do it at all. Phsyical, Spiritual, Natural, Astronomical aspects should be included.

Yep. That's one of the reasons for this thread, to come up with titles.

Archmage_Bael wrote:

-sorry for the lengthy post

Never apologise for a good long post. (Unless you don't use line breaks)

@ Archmage Bael - Azoth wouldn't make you permantently immortal, but it could stop the telonmeres in your genes from eroding, thus stopping the aging process. You'd just need regular doses.

It's still very uncertain as to what exactly causes aging. Whatever it is though would ware out along with every other part of the body. Anyway, nothing has an infinite source of energy.

(I'm not sure whether Azoth is an official ingredient to the stone, but the absence of an infinite source of energy means a perfect stone cannot exist. Which is my point.)

The generally accepted difference is that a lesser philosopher stone will run out, a true philosopher stone wont (or at least not for a long long time)

Also the creation of something from nothing, well better phrased, creating more from less, IS a part of alchemy and magic, leave you thermodynamics at home. Withing magic, things that are endless ARE a part of magic, decanters of endless water were real mythical items, bottomless holes, etc, they may not exist in science/reality, but were not dealing with that.

Personaly I'm not too sure about the whole philosopher stone concept. Somehow it seems a really quite .. err I'm not sure of the word in english... "specific" element from our earth version of what alchemy is. and transporting it to Felarya seems a little odd to me ^^;