Negav and the Inter/Intranet

Discuss it here please. The Q & A thread is for general questions, not for debates.
I don't need to say much else apart from if it's possible for a mod to move the relevant posts from the Q & A thread to here. I understand if that's an arduous task but it would help clear the Q & A thread up a bit.
(The mobile phone discussion also goes here).

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

@aethernavale: I prefer use the term internet than intranet because intranet is more internal to a specific organization, internet is a newtork of network not a global network. As I see the infrastructure are internal to negav, the maintenance of the line can be overcome by wireless connections many cities used wireless access spot than classical lines when they deal with public connections the maintenance is easier and cheaper than lines, the price too because you don't invest for lines. The traditonnal lines system suited better for specific location like administrations, headquartes where the connections need to be more direct and regulates. Wireless = large audience, lines = private or intyernal structures.

You can prefer it, but that doesn't make it accurate. Internet by definition is an international network available worldwide - and Negav hardly constitutes as such. Intranets are centralized within an organization, and Negav is more closely defined as a city-state than anything else. This is yet another example of taking what already exists and forcing the terminology onto something that doesn't fit. Negav would most likely be formed by business and private LANs and perhaps, just perhaps those would be teamed into a WAN. You could call that internetworking based on the original formula of the internet, as internet is shorthand for internetwork, but that's about where you would draw the line. Notice that this is latest is lowercase - internetworking and the Internet are different things. The World Wide Web is merely a service offered by the Internet. Combining several LANs into a WAN does not an internet make, though it is an example of internetwork routing. Intranet/Extranet are more apt descriptions of what Negav would have available. The internet as it is now became such because of the telecommunication lag between areas - Negav is a 90 sq mile city. It won't suffer from that fate. So unless you're Negavian network is available to Adventurer Smith as he's navigating towards the Academy of Sentinels, or Tradesman John who passes goods between Negav and Kelerm, it isn't an internet.

Personally, I see it more likely that if there are WANs in Negav, they would be the communication lines between various corporations and regulatory agencies within the city. If there were a service available to the public it would be more aptly defined as an extranet, and even then I can't see it developing into the same thing that exists on Earth.



Also, where is this wireless/wired discussion coming from? Wireless = mobile access, Wired = access/data throughput. Either can be easily regulated, so that is a moot point. Given the small size of Negav and the general lack of widespread construction, wired works just fine. Wireless would probably be more of a convenience plug than anything else, maybe as a generosity to the middle/lower class. Given the materials that Negav is built out of, I'd even go so far as to say that wireless isn't going to work in many areas due to signal blocking caused by structures - better to use shielded wires.

aethernavale wrote:

You can prefer it, but that doesn't make it accurate. Internet by definition is an international network available worldwide - and Negav hardly constitutes as such. Intranets are centralized within an organization, and Negav is more closely defined as a city-state than anything else. This is yet another example of taking what already exists and forcing the terminology onto something that doesn't fit. Negav would most likely be formed by business and private LANs and perhaps, just perhaps those would be teamed into a WAN. You could call that internetworking based on the original formula of the internet, as internet is shorthand for internetwork, but that's about where you would draw the line. Notice that this is latest is lowercase - internetworking and the Internet are different things. The World Wide Web is merely a service offered by the Internet. Combining several LANs into a WAN does not an internet make, though it is an example of internetwork routing. Intranet/Extranet are more apt descriptions of what Negav would have available. The internet as it is now became such because of the telecommunication lag between areas - Negav is a 90 sq mile city. It won't suffer from that fate. So unless you're Negavian network is available to Adventurer Smith as he's navigating towards the Academy of Sentinels, or Tradesman John who passes goods between Negav and Kelerm, it isn't an internet.

Personally, I see it more likely that if there are WANs in Negav, they would be the communication lines between various corporations and regulatory agencies within the city. If there were a service available to the public it would be more aptly defined as an extranet, and even then I can't see it developing into the same thing that exists on Earth.



Also, where is this wireless/wired discussion coming from? Wireless = mobile access, Wired = access/data throughput. Either can be easily regulated, so that is a moot point. Given the small size of Negav and the general lack of widespread construction, wired works just fine. Wireless would probably be more of a convenience plug than anything else, maybe as a generosity to the middle/lower class. Given the materials that Negav is built out of, I'd even go so far as to say that wireless isn't going to work in many areas due to signal blocking caused by structures - better to use shielded wires.

I'm agree with you about all the point you did.
My original ideas is to develop network communications inside the wall of the city Negav not outside. They suits only to its urban environment not for outside world. For the wireless I know they won't work everywhere that's why I see the choice between wireless and classical line depending the nature of the location.

um qestion how do some felaryas tha have laptops and live in the forest git internet. (AS in the faeries and others) I saw in a few storie and a comic by karbo (namly one with anna and vivin) they git internet. Dose felarya its self act as modum conecting to the internets and the like of other worlds?

dragonjaj wrote:

um qestion how do some felaryas tha have laptops and live in the forest git internet. (AS in the faeries and others) I saw in a few storie and a comic by karbo (namly one with anna and vivin) they git internet. Dose felarya its self act as modum conecting to the internets and the like of other worlds?

I believe that was mainly done as a joke, since the idea of Vivian being turned loose on the internet is kind of funny. Just something that's random and funny, but not neccissarily accurate.

Rule of Funny. That, and Anna is secretly the Goddess of Technology. Pick whichever you find more appropriate.

About the Inter/Intranet, I guess a middle ground would be that it's employed inside Negav, but not like PC's. I'd rather see it used by organizations, corporations, etc. to keep data of their organization streamlined and quickly. I think it's a fair compromise as not everyone has one and it's mostly business using it to conduct whatever they do, I'm no business expert. It'd be faster and more convenient than whatever we used before the advent of computers.

Sean Okotami wrote:

About the Inter/Intranet, I guess a middle ground would be that it's employed inside Negav, but not like PC's. I'd rather see it used by organizations, corporations, etc. to keep data of their organization streamlined and quickly.

I can imagine this happening. They'd have those huge, told mainframe style computers.

Sean Okotami wrote:

It'd be faster and more convenient than whatever we used before the advent of computers.

It is certainly faster than pencil/pen and paper.

When I read PC's, I usually mean a computer in your bedroom.

Sean Okotami wrote:

When I read PC's, I usually mean a computer in your bedroom.

That's the idea... PC = Personal Computer. Practically all computers now days are PCs except for those huge supercomputers that the army and research institutes use.

rcs619 wrote:

dragonjaj wrote:

um qestion how do some felaryas tha have laptops and live in the forest git internet. (AS in the faeries and others) I saw in a few storie and a comic by karbo (namly one with anna and vivin) they git internet. Dose felarya its self act as modum conecting to the internets and the like of other worlds?

I believe that was mainly done as a joke, since the idea of Vivian being turned loose on the internet is kind of funny. Just something that's random and funny, but not neccissarily accurate.

Maybe Anna was connecting Vivian to a limited network -a Deluran database or such. Though why their filebanks would be filled with porn is beyond me. Well, that's why they haven't taken over...

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

When I read PC's, I usually mean a computer in your bedroom.

That's the idea... PC = Personal Computer. Practically all computers now days are PCs except for those huge supercomputers that the army and research institutes use.

Well I wouldn't see them use desktops. In my story when it came up, I only mentionned a screen like we use nowadays, but no desktop, because those huge computers take an entire room.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

When I read PC's, I usually mean a computer in your bedroom.

That's the idea... PC = Personal Computer. Practically all computers now days are PCs except for those huge supercomputers that the army and research institutes use.

Well I wouldn't see them use desktops. In my story when it came up, I only mentionned a screen like we use nowadays, but no desktop, because those huge computers take an entire room.

Well yeah, that's why I I spoke of a mainframe in my earlier post. What you're describing is a mainframe.

When I see a joke like that, I never really think it's canon unless Karbo says so. He usually follows it with an explanation.

Like, with a non-technology example, I highly doubt the lure of chasing a neko would give Crisis the physical strength to launch Anna thousands of feet into the air. She did it because it's damn funny.

So I try not to make a big deal out of everything in the comics.

@ aethernavale: If you have no objection I want to come back on some of your points.

aethernavale wrote:

You can prefer it, but that doesn't make it accurate. Internet by definition is an international network available worldwide - and Negav hardly constitutes as such. Intranets are centralized within an organization, and Negav is more closely defined as a city-state than anything else. This is yet another example of taking what already exists and forcing the terminology onto something that doesn't fit. Negav would most likely be formed by business and private LANs and perhaps, just perhaps those would be teamed into a WAN. You could call that internetworking based on the original formula of the internet, as internet is shorthand for internetwork, but that's about where you would draw the line. Notice that this is latest is lowercase - internetworking and the Internet are different things. The World Wide Web is merely a service offered by the Internet. Combining several LANs into a WAN does not an internet make, though it is an example of internetwork routing. Intranet/Extranet are more apt descriptions of what Negav would have available. The internet as it is now became such because of the telecommunication lag between areas - Negav is a 90 sq mile city. It won't suffer from that fate.

1) it's internet not Internet. And at the origins Internet is with the upper case design the biggest internet or WAN. So we are dealing internetworking.
2)WANs are not direct connection between LANs.
3)To have some professional experience in network, if the intranet/extranet are managed directly by the enterprise, unless you connect physically your computer to their network yeah you're right , but if you want to remote access you pass through the different networks of the different provider which are routing you to them. In term of routing the enterprise manage only the internal routing of their networks but not the external which are made by the different providers.
4)As I said it won't be a global network but different private ones.

aethernavale wrote:

So unless you're Negavian network is available to Adventurer Smith as he's navigating towards the Academy of Sentinels, or Tradesman John who passes goods between Negav and Kelerm, it isn't an internet.

Internet at the origin was limited to the United States and after it grew to an international level. So now let's start with Negav and maybe in a future we will speak about other remote places. And even that the international point is debatable because many foreigner companies will use it when they will do their business inside the cities. The remote access outside Negav are not in charge of the city or unless it negotiates a common agreement with the two other places. It's more a matter of business and politic, but if a private companies want to interconnect them they are freed to do it, the communications will pass by their network. It will make a new addition in the routing tables of the existing internet providers.

aethernavale wrote:

Personally, I see it more likely that if there are WANs in Negav, they would be the communication lines between various corporations and regulatory agencies within the city. If there were a service available to the public it would be more aptly defined as an extranet, and even then I can't see it developing into the same thing that exists on Earth.

Extranet is a privileged access an enterprise offer to its partner, it's still an internet except it's more restricted but it can be made through any public network not a specific network. So internet is accurate.

Edit1: I suggest you to avoid prediction when a solutions are opened to the public because I don't think the creatosr of the Internet had anticipated the huge monster it is now. It's the same case when computesr became available for public. The increasing numbers of users are the origins of the different development and services we have now.

Edit 2: The classification of Negav Network won't be WAN but MAN this kind of structure may evolve and grow. Networks are not limited to a specific size or users or applications they can evolve and grow. The word WAN, MAN, LAN, CAN and PAN are just classifications. A network can switch between one of this category.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

@ aethernavale: If you have no objection I want to come back on some of your points.

1) it's internet not Internet. And at the origins Internet is with the upper case design the biggest internet or WAN. So we are dealing internetworking.

Like I said, if you want to call it that then so be it, the original definition fits with the description. However, calling it such will confuse normal people who associate certain things with what they already know.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

2)WANs are not direct connection between LANs.

Um, yes, actually, they do. You're confusing OSI model with generic topology. A WAN is made up of a number of LANs, generally covering more than one geographic location though it is not necessary for it to do so. The current stature of the internet has required NAT routing in order to host the massive amount of information with the limited number of IPv4 addresses, but this does not mean that a router is necessary provided you could actually subside with the number of addresses you had without having to generate separate topology layers in order to keep from generating a new system.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

3)To have some professional experience in network, if the intranet/extranet are managed directly by the enterprise, unless you connect physically your computer to their network yeah you're right , but if you want to remote access you pass through the different networks of the different provider which are routing you to them. In term of routing the enterprise manage only the internal routing of their networks but not the external which are made by the different providers.

Actually, I do have professional experience in this. I was a network administrator for three years serving originally on a network with OC-12 ATM backlanes that advanced to much newer fiberoptics designed to work with ethernet rather than translate over. I managed both WinNT v4 and Win2000 servers, and I currently own a Win2008 STD R1 server that I use at home for my media library. Additionally I have been fiberoptics qualified and I use a fiberbacklane in my house to communicate between my data servers and my personal computers to minimize any potential bottlenecks that could develop. My only regret is not living in an area where I could directly access a fiberoptic connection. Cable is old, old, oldnews to me now, and its time the rest of the world caught up. Like all those people using WinXP still. Yeah, I'm looking at you because you're the reason we're still limited in HDD expansion. Your OS can't support GPT. 2TB per drive isn't enough for some of us, and the recently released >2TB drives are exorbitantly expensive.

You are once again describing the symptoms of a problem, not the origination of thus. We have routing because originally the different networks used separate communication languages as well as varying cable standards, not to mention the levels of work created by the IPv4 address shortage in a network model spanning several million devices, all of which need their own separate yet unique identifier. Negav will not have these problems for two reasons: 1) they won't be building it from the ground up, they will be importing the information and technology so the baseline establishment will be of like materials and protocol, and 2) they simply don't have the same number of people to serve. Negav could probably get away with the limited number of bit identifiers in IPv4 without ever NATing anything.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

4)As I said it won't be a global network but different private ones.

I have no issue with this, though 'private' could use some clarification to prevent confusion.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Internet at the origin was limited to the United States and after it grew to an international level. So now let's start with Negav and maybe in a future we will speak about other remote places. And even that the international point is debatable because many foreigner companies will use it when they will do their business inside the cities. The remote access outside Negav are not in charge of the city or unless it negotiates a common agreement with the two other places. It's more a matter of business and politic, but if a private companies want to interconnect them they are freed to do it, the communications will pass by their network. It will make a new addition in the routing tables of the existing internet providers.

Actually the internet as we know it, and as I stated previously, started at CERN. Which is European, not American. You are thinking of ARPANET, which formed the hardware and protocol core that would eventually host the internet. However, most countries had their own proprietary networks and connect links and it wasn't until TCP/IP that things began to be connected together universally. TCP/IP was developed in America to help with the issue of the different national protocols (as most nations were politically driven to not accept the NCP and x.25 protocol of ARPANET, thus limiting its expansion outside of America). A young fledgling company called CISCO helped to coordinate routing between the various protocols offered by the conglomerates and helped facilitate the merger to TCP/IP. CERN created the protocol we know as the World Wide Web, and they were the ones with the first 'web server'.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Extranet is a privileged access an enterprise offer to its partner, it's still an internet except it's more restricted but it can be made through any public network not a specific network. So internet is accurate.

Edit1: I suggest you to avoid prediction when a solutions are opened to the public because I don't think the creatosr of the Internet had anticipated the huge monster it is now. It's the same case when computesr became available for public. The increasing numbers of users are the origins of the different development and services we have now.

Edit 2: The classification of Negav Network won't be WAN but MAN this kind of structure may evolve and grow. Networks are not limited to a specific size or users or applications they can evolve and grow. The word WAN, MAN, LAN, CAN and PAN are just classifications. A network can switch between one of this category.

I discussed most of these above. Internetworking was a term coined at the time of development of TCP/IP, it was not the original classification of these networks. Intranet/Extranet are the more apt descriptions for what Negav would have, because I can't see them using a multitude of protocols. I for one would believe that the Vish and the Psi would be more like China/Korea/etc and have strict regulatory controls over their computer networks in order to prevent the exposition and 'free use' most of us enjoy today. Businesses would no doubt encrypt their own information, or perhaps simply not allow critical data to be hosted on a network that is externally accessible. The available resources of this 'internet' in Negav I feel would not be open nor would they consist of privately hosted networks unless you're referring to businesses in the 'private' sense. I would imagine that private factions would simply use the established infrastructure with something like VPN tunneling in order to communicate between groups.

The small size of the city precludes one of the major reasons the internet came into being - information dissemination can be just as easily accomplished through other means.

aethernavale wrote:

Negav will not have these problems for two reasons: 1) they won't be building it from the ground up, they will be importing the information and technology so the baseline establishment will be of like materials and protocol, and 2) they simply don't have the same number of people to serve. Negav could probably get away with the limited number of bit identifiers in IPv4 without ever NATing anything.

It's like that I see the network arrive in Negav.

aethernavale wrote:

I have no issue with this, though 'private' could use some clarification to prevent confusion.

The physical structures will be manages by privates companies which will rent their connections to the companies, administrations and users.

aethernavale wrote:

Intranet/Extranet are the more apt descriptions for what Negav would have, because I can't see them using a multitude of protocols.

I doubt Psi and Vis will communicate with the same protocols with their privates or not communications. If the extranet communications can use common protocols, Intranet it's another story because people won't buy at the same material providers, the same OS and if they can speak the same languages it's not the cases for the writings, so be sure protocols will appears to manage that.

aethernavale wrote:

I for one would believe that the Vish and the Psi would be more like China/Korea/etc and have strict regulatory controls over their computer networks in order to prevent the exposition and 'free use' most of us enjoy today.

I doubt Negavians share the common view of East Asian people and their hierarchy. Negavians are not an homogeneous people but have various origins. I don't say it would end into a revolution.
But I can see Vis and Psi filter and censor political and military sensible informations, but p0rn, streaming, online bet, chatting, dating sites or online gaming, sales, online gallery(ie DA), social networks (Internet as we know ) Unless there are some naked images of Lady Lesona of course I see no problem

aethernavale wrote:

Businesses would no doubt encrypt their own information, or perhaps simply not allow critical data to be hosted on a network that is externally accessible.

It's the work of Network administrators

aethernavale wrote:

The available resources of this 'internet' in Negav I feel would not be open nor would they consist of privately hosted networks unless you're referring to businesses in the 'private' sense.

Professional Business is only a small percentage of the network communications and resources, the biggest percentages is used for what I quotes previously.

aethernavale wrote:

I would imagine that private factions would simply use the established infrastructure with something like VPN tunneling in order to communicate between groups.

We are both agree here.

aethernavale wrote:

The small size of the city precludes one of the major reasons the internet came into being - information dissemination can be just as easily accomplished through other means.

I don't expect the network to be an exact replicas of the Internet as we know but it has some potential to make easier the communications and the trade inside the city.

Trivial suggestion: What should it be called? The Interlink?

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

The physical structures will be manages by privates companies which will rent their connections to the companies, administrations and users.

I really don't see this happening, for what I discuss below.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

I doubt Psi and Vis will communicate with the same protocols with their privates or not communications. If the extranet communications can use common protocols, Intranet it's another story because people won't buy at the same material providers, the same OS and if they can speak the same languages it's not the cases for the writings, so be sure protocols will appears to manage that.

Protocols are not needed to handle different languages of people, they handle different machine languages. I don't feel the machine languages would be different because I think in general the source of the equipment would be the same. While it is most likely that it would be imported from another dimension, I think those doing the importing would be tied closely to the leadership and would probably set up some sort of tradelock to prevent other people from siphoning money/power away from them. There are no corporate monopoly breakups in Negav - why would they care? Unless it infringes on someone with more powerful resources.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

I doubt Negavians share the common view of East Asian people and their hierarchy. Negavians are not an homogeneous people but have various origins. I don't say it would end into a revolution.
But I can see Vis and Psi filter and censor political and military sensible informations, but p0rn, streaming, online bet, chatting, dating sites or online gaming, sales, online gallery(ie DA), social networks (Internet as we know ) Unless there are some naked images of Lady Lesona of course I see no problem

Like I said before, I really don't see those other things coming into being. I see the Negavian network remaining what the original network was prior to the internet explosion - that of a means of communication between entities. Sure some of them would have websites available to the 'general' public, but the social networking sites, streaming, online games? I don't see it. Especially not porn - all you need for that is a telescope and a seat on the wall; sometimes not even that. Perhaps I should be more clear about my definition of regulation - the Psi probably aren't going to care, except maybe to use it as a monitoring system. Even then, because of the technological nature and them all being mages, I think they'd probably resort to other methods (like their secret police force).

That leaves the Vish, and they are being driven by restoring their great empire. That means they want two things most of all - money and power. No doubt they have had telecommunications ability in the past, and no doubt they have suffered from the free and open side of telecommunications traffic. I feel they would most probably be like a giant hammer on such a thing, blocking and preventing it from growing in any way possible to prevent chinks from forming in their own plans as they most likely did in the past. It would not surprise me at all to see them regulate such a telecommunications grid with a heavy hand, mayhaps even requiring users of this network to have special permits that are only to be used in commercial fields. Private/pirate networks would probably exist to some extent, but they would be carefully managed and hidden in order to prevent the Vish/Psi responding with a 'discouragement' force.

So no, I still see this network in Negav as being commercial, not private, and it most certainly would not be what we know today. It would be like a flashback to old times, with simplistic public sites for the propagation of information and dissemination of supplies/shipments/resources. The personal side just wouldn't exist.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Professional Business is only a small percentage of the network communications and resources, the biggest percentages is used for what I quotes previously.

Not in the Negav as it is currently described. The internet became what it is because of the ability to disseminate information to people one would generally never have the opportunity to meet due to geographic isolation and the limitations of other means of telecommunications. The internet has become a giant public forum for anything and everything, and that very definition is something I see the Vish destroying quickly underfoot to prevent potential undermining of their power later.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

I don't expect the network to be an exact replicas of the Internet as we know but it has some potential to make easier the communications and the trade inside the city.

This I agree with, but not with the way you describe it as being.






As for a name, I imagine it would probably be something like AARNET, ARPANET, CERNET, etc - where the name is an acronym for the controlling party interface. Probably not something generic as it would be strictly controlled and regulated.

aethernavale wrote:

I see the Negavian network remaining what the original network was prior to the internet explosion - that of a means of communication between entities. Sure some of them would have websites available to the 'general' public, but the social networking sites, streaming, online games? I don't see it.

aethernavale wrote:

As for a name, I imagine it would probably be something like AARNET, ARPANET, CERNET, etc - where the name is an acronym for the controlling party interface. Probably not something generic as it would be strictly controlled and regulated.

This, I agree with this. (I think I outlined something like it in the Q & A thread.) If Negav has a network, it is not going to be like the internet we know today.

aethernavale wrote:

I really don't see this happening, for what I discuss below.

Even if you see the status is private but the manager is always a good friend with the political leaders and in overall.

aethernavale wrote:

Protocols are not needed to handle different languages of people, they handle different machine languages. I don't feel the machine languages would be different because I think in general the source of the equipment would be the same. While it is most likely that it would be imported from another dimension, I think those doing the importing would be tied closely to the leadership and would probably set up some sort of tradelock to prevent other people from siphoning money/power away from them. There are no corporate monopoly breakups in Negav - why would they care? Unless it infringes on someone with more powerful resources

I don't think there will be an only source of equipment.

aethernavale wrote:

Like I said before, I really don't see those other things coming into being. I see the Negavian network remaining what the original network was prior to the internet explosion - that of a means of communication between entities. Sure some of them would have websites available to the 'general' public, but the social networking sites, streaming, online games? I don't see it. Especially not porn -

Even if they are not serious they are still commercial activities. And many companies used social network to their communication with their customers.

aethernavale wrote:

all you need for that is a telescope and a seat on the wall; sometimes not even that.

I doubt the authorities will let people get closed of their walls like that and due to the secret behind their creations.

aethernavale wrote:

Perhaps I should be more clear about my definition of regulation - the Psi probably aren't going to care, except maybe to use it as a monitoring system. Even then, because of the technological nature and them all being mages, I think they'd probably resort to other methods (like their secret police force).

I have serious doubt because they can use others methods.

aethernavale wrote:

That leaves the Vish, and they are being driven by restoring their great empire. That means they want two things most of all - money and power. No doubt they have had telecommunications ability in the past, and no doubt they have suffered from the free and open side of telecommunications traffic. I feel they would most probably be like a giant hammer on such a thing, blocking and preventing it from growing in any way possible to prevent chinks from forming in their own plans as they most likely did in the past. It would not surprise me at all to see them regulate such a telecommunications grid with a heavy hand,

There is more simple selling hardware or software with hidden tracers, key-loggers implemented and it's ok, and communication can be traced. And the size of the network make the communications easier to filter without affecting the global traffic.

aethernavale wrote:

mayhaps even requiring users of this network to have special permits that are only to be used in commercial fields.

I see you referred to China but here the problem is because China even their strict policy of birth control, there are still unofficial birth mainly in the countryside which make the administrative control of the population difficult but in Negav the population is smaller an administrative control is easier.

aethernavale wrote:

So no, I still see this network in Negav as being commercial, not private, and it most certainly would not be what we know today. It would be like a flashback to old times, with simplistic public sites for the propagation of information and dissemination of supplies/shipments/resources. The personal side just wouldn't exist.

The personal side will exist, it's just a matter of time.

aethernavale wrote:

Not in the Negav as it is currently described. The internet became what it is because of the ability to disseminate information to people one would generally never have the opportunity to meet due to geographic isolation and the limitations of other means of telecommunications. The internet has become a giant public forum for anything and everything, and that very definition is something I see the Vish destroying quickly underfoot to prevent potential undermining of their power later.

The Vish will keep an eye on this development but they will interfere maybe to keep the situation under control, infiltrated some forum but they won't destroy it because it will encourage people to use other means of communications. It's better to give an illusion of liberty than playing the card of repression.

aethernavale wrote:

As for a name, I imagine it would probably be something like AARNET, ARPANET, CERNET, etc - where the name is an acronym for the controlling party interface. Probably not something generic as it would be strictly controlled and regulated.

Name as you wish I don't care.
I don't care about the name

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

Even if they are not serious they are still commercial activities. And many companies used social network to their communication with their customers.

If they do it's only because the existing infrastructure is there. In Negav, it won't be.

Computers require power, but I highly doubt Negav has a powergrid. The rich probably have private generators or local rich sector grids but everybody else is either going to have a really cheap, small generator that can run off excess cooking oil, like in businesses. The vishmitals would also have their own power intheir barracks and stuff, for obvious reasons. But everyone else would have no power at all.


They're not going to have the network connections. Wireless still requires wires somewhere, as well as the wireless access points themselves.

Social networking sites are set up by companies for the purpose of social networking, they get their money from advertisements. There is not enough of an audience for that for it to be viable. There are not enough users for it to be viable.

It sounds like an internet would exist in Felarya. And really, I imagine they'd have an alternative to satellites or ground cables.

This IS an alternate world after all. In all politeness, stop telling others they're wrong for an ideas they submit.

Geez.

Pendragon wrote:

It sounds like an internet would exist in Felarya. And really, I imagine they'd have an alternative to satellites or ground cables.

This IS an alternate world after all. In all politeness, stop telling others they're wrong for an ideas they submit.

Geez.

It's not an alternative world. Felarya is not Earth.

Felarya is not advanced world + swords & arrows.

Felarya is a primitive world + guns and bits of other higher tech.

Felarya is not going to have the internet,but Negav might.

As far as I can. see, gwada has not presented a good reason for Negav to have internet in the way he describes it. Athernavale's description seems the most likely if Negav were to have a computer network.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

If they do it's only because the existing infrastructure is there. In Negav, it won't be.

It can be implemented or imported.It doesn't mean it can't exist.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Computers require power, but I highly doubt Negav has a powergrid. The rich probably have private generators but everybody else is either going to have a really cheap, small generator that can run off excess cooking oil or no power at all. They're not going to have the network connections. Wireless still requires wires somewhere, as well as the wireless access points themselves.

The energy issue is debatable in overall. Solutions can be created or developed or imported. And some already exist but are not ready for market, see solar batteries or wireless power.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Social networking sites are set up by companies for the purpose of social networking, they get their money from advertisements. There is not enough of an audience for that for it to be viable. There are not enough users for it to be viable.

It's just mean this services won't be delivered by this kind of companies but it can exist in other forms. And there are other possibilities of funding.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

It's not an alternative world. Felarya is not Earth.

Felarya is not advanced world + swords & arrows.

Felarya is a primitive world + guns and bits of other higher tech.

Felarya is not going to have the internet,nnut Negav might.

Irregularities of development is not something new, you can face very advanced, fairly advanced and traditional or primitives societies. It was the case in our world before some world events standardized it.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

As far as I can. see, gwada has not presented a good reason for Negav to have internet in the way he describes it. Athernavale's description seems the most likely if Negav were to have a computer network.

If My english allow me maybe

I will repeat myself a computer network can be implemented into Negav, technical issue like energy or access can be resolved, the cities is not that big and cheap solution in other world which are working for bigger area can be imported and adapted but the problem I doubt Negav will reach the level of China/ North Korea in term of censorship which will look a bit exaggerated. I'm conscious this won't reach the Internet as we know in term of size and development but seeing the political factions using the policies of the great firewall is a bit too much. I know they will want to keep the control on it which is not a problem due to its current size but they can impose some restriction on some activities and monitor the sensitives ones but some activities are not really affected by that. Some known services can exist but they won't become impressive but still exist.

Beyond simple bulletin boards, and email, there really isn't any reason for the average Negavian to want or care about an internet. Compters gained their massive popularity from an increasingly sedentary lifestyle, and have ONLY dropped so much in price because millions of people buy them all the time. Negav is home to somewhere between 700,000 - 900,000 people...and most of those people either live in the poor district, or in the Pit, or are transitory adventurers or merchants who don't even live in Negav all the time.

There just is not enough of a consumer base to have any kind of complex electronics like that. You won't have television, you won't have movie production in Negav, you won't have most types of "modern" entertainment. Radios work because the technology is simple, programming is easy and cheap to make...and once people buy the radio, it works and gives them access to free entertainment. Movie theators, plays, and maybe sporting events work as well. Things where large numbers of people can be entertained for a relatively low admission price.

There is just no reason for a big, complex internet in Negav...and it just doesn't fit in with the technology, infrastructure or culture that is already in place within the city.