Dryad reproduction

This issue crops up from time to time, and remains one of Felarya's mysteries, so it might be good to see if we can puzzle it out and reach a consensus.

Dryads obviously have a human half and a tree half. Their human half includes (at least externally) a human reproductive system - a vagina, which would suggest sexual intercourse for reproduction; and breasts, which would suggest that they breastfeed their young. There are no male dryads, but we know that female harpies reproduce with males of other species, and that their children are fully harpy, so it would not be inconceivable for the same to be true of dryads.

Let us, for now, take these body parts at face value, and therefore assume that little dryads come from sex between a dryad and some giant male. After a period of gestation, the baby dryad is born, and breastfed. But here, already, we run into difficulties. Does the baby root herself straight away into the ground beside her mother? If so, how can she be breastfed? And if she does not root herself, then... where and how does her mother keep her, during infancy?

The advantage of this model, despite its difficulty, is that it gives the baby dryad the best protection during her infancy and childhood, by keeping her close to her mother. For if a baby is born and grows up far from her mother, she would surely face great difficulty in surviving to adulthood. Which would imply that dryads produce a significant number of young, knowing that a large majority of them will not survive.

Now, what if dryads do not give birth to live young? What if dryads are born from seeds? A dryad's seeds are carried far from her by the wind and birds, or whatever, and a baby dryad grows where her seed enters the earth. During her younger years, she derives nutrition solely from nutrients in the earth, and from the rain and sunlight. Perhaps she has some sort of natural, unconscious magic which shields her from the senses of predators, until she is old enough to be self-aware and look after herself.

What bothers me with that solution is that it relegates a dryad's visible reproductive apparatus to a purely decorative or obscurely vestigial function. I would tend to think that if a dryad has a vagina and breasts, it's because they serve a useful purpose. Perhaps, then, dryads are born from seeds, but only when those seeds have been fertilised through sexual intercourse. By which I mean that a dryad has sex with a giant male. Instead of fertilising a single ovum in a womb, the sperm (somehow) fertilises the seeds in the flowers or fruit of her tree part. When those fertilised seeds are carried away by the wind, or some other means, they can then sprout into little dryads.

That, however, still leaves the purpose of dryad breasts (nipples included) unadressed. And right now (with a mild headache), I'm somewhat stumped.

Thoughts?

I think Cypress' entry in the wiki state that she grew from a seed. There's another issue if they give birth by seeds: where does the seeds come out from? The vagina maybe, but if so, how can it be carried by the wind if they released so low on the Dryad's body? It would most likely fall by the Dryad's roots and sprout from there.

Quote :

Dryads obviously have a human half and a tree half. Their human half includes (at least externally) a human reproductive system - a vagina, which would suggest sexual intercourse for reproduction; and breasts, which would suggest that they breastfeed their young. There are no male dryads, but we know that female harpies reproduce with males of other species, and that their children are fully harpy, so it would not be inconceivable for the same to be true of dryads.

Its possible, I suppose...although the image of males going around and having sex with trees is fairly silly and humorous when you think about it. There's also the height issue, since dryads, on average, tend to be taller than other pred species.

Quote :

Now, what if dryads do not give birth to live young? What if dryads are born from seeds? A dryad's seeds are carried far from her by the wind and birds, or whatever, and a baby dryad grows where her seed enters the earth. During her younger years, she derives nutrition solely from nutrients in the earth, and from the rain and sunlight. Perhaps she has some sort of natural, unconscious magic which shields her from the senses of predators, until she is old enough to be self-aware and look after herself.

This is more along the lines of what I thought. The dryads, or more accurately, the plant portions growing off of their bodies release their seeds into the air, which then can get carried great distances on the winds, or on other animals. The main issue with that becomes fertilization. Without fertilization from another set of DNA, the child would just be a clone of her mother. I think there are two options for this.

1: Dryads release a kind of pollen into the air along with their seeds. They can't fertillize their own seeds, but this pollen would fertillize another Dryad's seeds, and their own seeds would be fertillized by someone else. I suppose this would technically make them hermaphridites of a sort, since they would be handling both "male" and "female" reproductive processes. This could probably be done during certain times of the year, or during certain times where the weather conditions are right.

2: Dryad seeds take advantage of the natural pollenization process and are fertillized by pollen from regular plants. In this case, the Dryad could collect the pollen of other plants as it travels on the wind, and use it to fertillize her own seeds before releasing them. They would be fertillized before they leave their mother, and be ready to begin growing and sprouting once they land somewhere where the terrain is right. This could potentially explain the huge variety in Dryads, since they would take some of their physical traits from their mother, and some of their traits from whatever plant's pollen was used to fertilize her seed.

Karbo has stated before that Dryads are partly photosynthetic. They derive a portion of their nutrition from the sun and water, and only eat meat to supplement that, since such a large being ends up requiring more nutrients and energy than her own food-making processes can provide. When a Dryad is still young, it could be entirely possible for them to get all their nutrition from photosynthesis, and as they grow, their predator instincts will begin to kick in, and they will slowly have to transition into catching and eating animals to supplement their body's nutrition requirements.

Dryads have a natural skill at illusion magic, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume that there is some kind of innate survival instinct, even when they are young. Their illusions would just kick in when they feel threatened, allowing them to have a shot at surviving until they grow smarter, and more skilled. There is also the Dryad network to take into effect. Through this network, no Dryad is ever really alone. That child will be recieving help from the Dryads accessing the network, ranging from soothing thoughts when she is little, to survival tips, stories, and such when she is older. There could even be an innate sense that allows Dryads to recognize their children, letting them be there for their child, even over long distances. Of course, the network also does have a huge downside, in that Dryads would feel the loss of their own worse than almost any other race. When a Dryad dies, I imagine it is a very somber event for those listening in as her voice in the network goes silent.

Quote :

What bothers me with that solution is that it relegates a dryad's visible reproductive apparatus to a purely decorative or obscurely vestigial function. I would tend to think that if a dryad has a vagina and breasts, it's because they serve a useful purpose.

I personally think they ARE largely vestigial. I don't think that the giant hybrids, or a lot of Felarya's wildlife for that matter, evolved naturally. I think the human reproductive organs on Dryads (and several other species, for that matter), are just leftovers that they have simply because they are part human. is it possible they could have other uses, sure...but I think trying to say "Dryad breasts store sap" or "Naga breasts contain their venom sacks" and so on is just a silly discussion. A large part of evolution is random mutation, it could be possible that the healing factor of Felarya prevents that from happening, super-charging the DNA repair processes of Felarya's inhabitants so much that nearly all of those random mutations are repaired before they can manifest themselves and/or get passed on.

There's also the possibility that Felaryan wildlife just doesn't follow the same rules as the wildlife on a normal world. The sky doesn't, same with the shape of the world, the physics of giant creatures, and a whole list of other things.

To put it lightly, Felarya plays by it's own rules.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I think Cypress' entry in the wiki state that she grew from a seed. There's another issue if they give birth by seeds: where does the seeds come out from? The vagina maybe, but if so, how can it be carried by the wind if they released so low on the Dryad's body? It would most likely fall by the Dryad's roots and sprout from there.

I would image the seeds come from the dryad's flowers or fruit, in her tree part, and that normal processes of seed dispersal occur. In other words, the vagina is used for fertilisation, but not for birth-giving.

rcs619 wrote:

Its possible, I suppose...although the image of males going around and having sex with trees is fairly silly and humorous when you think about it.

It certainly creates a rather odd mental image.

Quote :

There's also the height issue, since dryads, on average, tend to be taller than other pred species.

True.

Quote :

Quote :

Now, what if dryads do not give birth to live young? What if dryads are born from seeds? A dryad's seeds are carried far from her by the wind and birds, or whatever, and a baby dryad grows where her seed enters the earth. During her younger years, she derives nutrition solely from nutrients in the earth, and from the rain and sunlight. Perhaps she has some sort of natural, unconscious magic which shields her from the senses of predators, until she is old enough to be self-aware and look after herself.

This is more along the lines of what I thought. The dryads, or more accurately, the plant portions growing off of their bodies release their seeds into the air, which then can get carried great distances on the winds, or on other animals. The main issue with that becomes fertilization. Without fertilization from another set of DNA, the child would just be a clone of her mother. I think there are two options for this.

1: Dryads release a kind of pollen into the air along with their seeds. They can't fertillize their own seeds, but this pollen would fertillize another Dryad's seeds, and their own seeds would be fertillized by someone else. I suppose this would technically make them hermaphridites of a sort, since they would be handling both "male" and "female" reproductive processes. This could probably be done during certain times of the year, or during certain times where the weather conditions are right.

2: Dryad seeds take advantage of the natural pollenization process and are fertillized by pollen from regular plants. In this case, the Dryad could collect the pollen of other plants as it travels on the wind, and use it to fertillize her own seeds before releasing them. They would be fertillized before they leave their mother, and be ready to begin growing and sprouting once they land somewhere where the terrain is right. This could potentially explain the huge variety in Dryads, since they would take some of their physical traits from their mother, and some of their traits from whatever plant's pollen was used to fertilize her seed.

I like both of these ideas. They make a lot of sense, and remind us that dryads are -indeed- part-plant. It's a neat way of accounting for differences between mother and child.

Of course, sexual fertilisation would also ensure the input of paternal DNA, and has the advantage of accounting for the existence of a dryad's vagina. The main problem being, as you say, the... mechanics, rendered a little tricky by dryads being taller than their potential male partners.

Quote :

Karbo has stated before that Dryads are partly photosynthetic. They derive a portion of their nutrition from the sun and water, and only eat meat to supplement that, since such a large being ends up requiring more nutrients and energy than her own food-making processes can provide. When a Dryad is still young, it could be entirely possible for them to get all their nutrition from photosynthesis, and as they grow, their predator instincts will begin to kick in, and they will slowly have to transition into catching and eating animals to supplement their body's nutrition requirements.

Dryads have a natural skill at illusion magic, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume that there is some kind of innate survival instinct, even when they are young. Their illusions would just kick in when they feel threatened, allowing them to have a shot at surviving until they grow smarter, and more skilled.

*nods* Exactly.

Quote :

There is also the Dryad network to take into effect. Through this network, no Dryad is ever really alone. That child will be recieving help from the Dryads accessing the network, ranging from soothing thoughts when she is little, to survival tips, stories, and such when she is older. There could even be an innate sense that allows Dryads to recognize their children, letting them be there for their child, even over long distances. Of course, the network also does have a huge downside, in that Dryads would feel the loss of their own worse than almost any other race. When a Dryad dies, I imagine it is a very somber event for those listening in as her voice in the network goes silent.

True. And there's something quite sweet about the thought of the dryad network nursing a baby dryad's mind.

Quote :

Quote :

What bothers me with that solution is that it relegates a dryad's visible reproductive apparatus to a purely decorative or obscurely vestigial function. I would tend to think that if a dryad has a vagina and breasts, it's because they serve a useful purpose.

I personally think they ARE largely vestigial. I don't think that the giant hybrids, or a lot of Felarya's wildlife for that matter, evolved naturally. I think the human reproductive organs on Dryads (and several other species, for that matter), are just leftovers that they have simply because they are part human. is it possible they could have other uses, sure...but I think trying to say "Dryad breasts store sap" or "Naga breasts contain their venom sacks" and so on is just a silly discussion. A large part of evolution is random mutation, it could be possible that the healing factor of Felarya prevents that from happening, super-charging the DNA repair processes of Felarya's inhabitants so much that nearly all of those random mutations are repaired before they can manifest themselves and/or get passed on.

True enough... Though since non-functional vaginas and breasts would be something of an impediment, the idea of them remaining because Felarya prevents genetic mutation ironically means the "healing" process is, in this instance, rather counter-productive.

I would prefer it if we could give them a credible purpose. Brushing them aside as vestigial seems, to me, a bit too much of a handwave. It would be a lot neater if we could make them "fit".

On the other hand, I would tend to agree with you on not trying to describe breasts as "sap sacks" or "venom sacks". For one thing, it just doesn't sound convincing. And for another, it doesn't explain nipples. (Unless nagas can squirt jets of venom from their nipples, but that would just be... nasty. )

Maybe the breasts are a natural evolution to attract preys.

Quote :

I like both of these ideas. They make a lot of sense, and remind us that dryads are -indeed- part-plant. It's a neat way of accounting for differences between mother and child.

Of course, sexual fertilisation would also ensure the input of paternal DNA, and has the advantage of accounting for the existence of a dryad's vagina. The main problem being, as you say, the... mechanics, rendered a little tricky by dryads being taller than their potential male partners.

The second option, where Dryads take advantage of the natural pollenization processes going on around them, could also help solidfy their whole "part of nature" angle. It would mean that Dryads are completely reliant on the nature around them to reproduce. This could create some issues with desert and arctic Dryads though. I imagine those would be extremely reliant on different insects and animals that help pollenization to happen, and would reproduce far less often than their jungle counterparts.

Technically, the pollen of a plant IS the male part of its reproductive process. If we use something similar to my second option, both the male and female genetic material is accounted for.

If we use the first option, we can just bank on Dryads being different genetically. I mean, they would still be getting two X chromosomes (one from each mother), which would result in female offspring. The lack of male Dryads could simply be because there are no males to contribute any Y chromosomes to the system.

Quote :

True enough... Though since non-functional vaginas and breasts would be something of an impediment, the idea of them remaining because Felarya prevents genetic mutation ironically means the "healing" process is, in this instance, rather counter-productive.

In some ways, yeah. It would discourage evolution, or at least make it take much, much, much longer than on a "real" world. I honestly think that would suit Felarya, in a way. It would be a world stuck in time, or existing completely outside of it, never changing except for people who inhabit it.

Quote :

I would prefer it if we could give them a credible purpose. Brushing them aside as vestigial seems, to me, a bit too much of a handwave. It would be a lot neater if we could make them "fit".

On the other hand, I would tend to agree with you on not trying to describe breasts as "sap sacks" or "venom sacks". For one thing, it just doesn't sound convincing. And for another, it doesn't explain nipples. (Unless nagas can squirt jets of venom from their nipples, but that would just be... nasty. )

Yeah, I get what you mean. It really becomes a sort of catch-22. If we don't give them a purpose and claim that they are just a side-effect of the creatures being part human, then we get accused of hand-waving the whole thing. If we try and give breasts alternate functions, then we end up looking kind of silly...and like we are desperately trying to justify the giant, naked animal-women of Felarya.

Oh god, that last sentence made me laugh so hard XD
> Crisis: "Anna! AnnaAnnaAnnaAnna!"
> Anna: *turns* "What? What do you want, Crisis?"
> Crisis: "Look what I can do!" *squeezes her nipples, accidentally shooting a spirt of venom into Anna's eyes* "I finally figued out what they're for!" =D
"...Anna, are you alright?"
> Anna: "Ahhh, my eyes! Why does this kind of stuff always happen to me?!" *runs off to wash her eyes out*

Do cacti and evergreen trees (Since that's what the Snow Dryads seem to be based on according to a picture by Karbo) reproduce in a different manners than typical leafy trees? I know the seeds are in their fruits, but what would pollenize them?

Sean Okotami wrote:

Do cacti and evergreen trees (Since that's what the Snow Dryads seem to be based on according to a picture by Karbo) reproduce in a different manners than typical leafy trees? I know the seeds are in their fruits, but what would pollenize them?

Im not sure about cacti, but cold-weather trees use pinecones and acorns and such, and rely on animals to scatter their seeds. Im sure it wouldn't be too hard to figure them out whenever we actually decide on how Dryads reproduce. They are oddities growing in different environments from the norm, they probably use a modified version of the standard reproduction system.

I've spoken on this in the past, and this is what I imagine of reproduction. Originally in the past I've stated that harpies engaged in gynogenesis, but I think it is more likely they engage in hybridogenesis with dryads engaging in a two stage process including gynogenesis and spores.

Gynogenesis - the presence of sperm stimulates the growth of an ovum. The sperm do not actually fertilize the egg, so characteristics of the father do not manifest in the child.

Hybridogenesis - sperm fertilize the egg, but the chromosomes do not carry out to subsequent generations. What this means is that the direct children of a mother are affected in appearance and stature by the father, but the child's children do not carry any genetic information from the child's father, only from the child's mate. Since harpy children are always female yet they do carry some characteristics of who mated with the harpy, this actually fits better.

So, we know that dryads engage in trysts with male giants on occasion. If we assume she doesn't actually need the sperm to provide for genetic material, merely to stimulate eggs into growth, then the second example you described comes into play. A dryad engages in sex with another of the proper equipment (since males aren't the only ones in Felarya that can do so), receiving sperm from her partner which triggers a hormonal response to create spore pods on the tree-like portions of her body. As such dryads would not require ovaries or a uterus, at least not in the human sense. Their reproduction would be handled by their plant side and not the human one.

You could even go one step further and combine the effects - for instance, flowers on plants are used to attract, either visually or chemically, the appropriate insects to pollinate them. A dryad could do the same, with her flowers providing pheromones that would attract mates of a specific type/species. The flowers would only bloom at certain intervals - basically whenever she isn't in the process of making pods. If she does have intercourse after pods are being made, it would not effect their growth/production but from a basic biological standpoint her body doesn't require it so it isn't 'advertising'. This also gives credit to dryads being intelligent - their bodies carry through with instinct but a dryad can choose whether or not to engage in sexual activity, or when they wish to do so in the case of not being 'in bloom'.

So, why spores you ask? Because they contain very little food material in them, making them less likely to be the subjects of predation except by fungi and bacteria. Animals don't generally go for spores due to the low food reserves they contain. By choosing spores we also set the bar - spores require favorable environments in order to begin creation of a new life form. Unlike a seed, they are less resistant to harsh conditions.

So the spore pods develop and eventually release their material into the atmosphere where it can be carried by the wind to a new location. I would think that the spore pod of a dryad would probably be at least the size of a soccer ball, if not larger - meaning that they produce a fewer number of spores than typically seen, and their spores are probably aided by something like how a dandelion spreads its seeds. If the location the spore arrives in is favorable for development of the spore, it will begin to take root and grow.

Additionally, I also propose that these spores are like a fern's. Time for some wiki:

>>Spore-bearing plants, like all plants, go through a life-cycle of alternation of generations. The fully grown sporophyte, what the layman refers to as the fern, produces genetically unique spores in the sori by meiosis. The haploid spores fall from the sporophyte and germinate by mitosis, given the right conditions, into the gametophyte stage, the prothallus. The prothallus then develops independently for several weeks; it grows sex organs and produces ova and flagellated sperm. After rainfall, the sperm are able to swim to the ova for fertilization to form a diploid sporophyte cell. This cell divides by mitosis and grows out of the gametophyte into a new fern, which will produce new spores that will grow into new prothallia etc., thus completing the life cycle of the organism.<<

Why do it this way? Also from wiki

>>There are two important evolutionary advantages to the alternation of generations plant life-cycle. Firstly, by forming a haploid gametophyte, there is only one allele for any genetic trait. Thus, all alleles will be expressed because no allele may be masked by a dominant counterpart (there is no counterpart). The benefit of this is that any mutation that causes a lethal, or harmful, trait expression cannot be masked and will cause the gametophyte to die; thus, the trait cannot be passed on to future generations, preserving the strength of the gene pool. Also, crossing-over during meiosis in the formation of spores, and sexual reproduction in the gametophytes, allows for genetic diversity, which also inhibits harmful recessive genes from "surfacing" and being expressed.<<

So, this allows dryads to have genetic diversity without harmful genetic effects and without requiring genetic material from another.


The spores that find good environments go on to create the child dryad, which at first resembles only a small version of its likeness (so a bramble dryad would appear to be a thicket and a tree-like dryad would start as a small tree from a size similar to a human child or adolescent). and has no human characteristics. This prevents it from being predated upon by other fauna. Granted, some dryads (such as the bloom dryad) already use spores for other purposes, but some plants do create separate types of spores (usually a male and female variant, but perhaps in their case they have one set used for control and another used for procreation - though I seem to remember them having some other form of procreating than normal, something about only doing so when one of them dies or something).

Up until this point/stage all processing done for growth is by photosynthesis and absorbing the nutrients of the soil (which also no doubt helps in their growth and might also explain why they are generally larger than other preds). Once the dryad reaches a certain size it produces a large bud/sprout from one side that grows against the side of itself (sort of like a corn stalk perhaps, only more integrated with the tree?). Inside this bud the dryad's human form will manifest, and once it has done so the outer shell of the bud will dry out and peel away revealing the human form. It is during this phase of growth that the dryad becomes a part of the network, and is communally taught how to survive. That way once the bud/sprout/growth reveals the dryad, she already has the basic skills required to keep herself alive.




This still leaves the question of what their breasts are for wide open. There are several routes you could take.

If you want to take the fetish route you could say that their breasts produce a nectar similar to an Alruane from the monster girls series that they can offer to potential mates. I'd say this is an iffy one though.

You could take a more realist route and say as Sean did that their breasts are repositories for a sap-like substance creation that can then be used by symbiotic creatures (perhaps generating the bonds that some people write about - like where dryads have their own personal armies of critters that aide them in getting live food and protect them from fauna and humans - perhaps their sap is payment/incentive for this). Still kinda fetishy, but not as much. Also, this does provide another use for domesticated dryads, though I'm not sure if Sean was thinking about this. His maple syrup idea. Where domesticated dryads would be utilized for their 'local network' potentials as well as for 'milking' them of their sap to be used for all the normal things sap is used for (syrup, latex, glue, amber, resin, soap/bath care, etc). This also prevents people from having to drill into them (don't think any dryad would appreciate that!). The sap idea isn't that farfetched - bramble dryads already do so in a form. Their thorns secret a liquid that they can use in defense or for prey capture.

You could throw out everything I talked about above and make them have normal reproductive systems, but I must say I do find it hard to envision a 'pregnant' dryad. In such a case/scenario their breasts would be used for breastfeeding only. Still, raises more problems later on with how the young dryad makes its way into the world - they are relatively slow walkers for the most part. Not to mention the amount of area a dryad needs to successfully grow, they couldn't be too close together (so breastfeeding would be difficult unless the child was a 'bud' on the dryad, but then that's a whole 'nother topic altogether).

You could make them storage repositories for energy like how a human uses fat to do so, but that doesn't explain why they would have nipples as they wouldn't be providing that energy to anyone - probably xnay on this idea anyway, as trees have other means of storing energy.

Maybe someone else could develop another idea not related to these... but it does seem rather difficult in a way.


Edit: I should note, before someone else mentions it, that in the sap idea I do not envision anyone suckling their breasts. It just wouldn't work. Sap isn't milk and you wouldn't be drinking it that way. More or less in that example their breasts serve as nectaries. Yes, that is a real term. Plants produce nectar to both attract insects that will help them reproduce as well as for protection - certain species offer the nectar to 'bodyguards' that feed off both the nectar and any plant-eating insects. So perhaps it's not sap so much but nectar, just not Alruane nectar.

I just thought of the maple syrup because I made a joke in one of my stories that it's very rare, thus really expensive, because getting maple syrup is infinitely more dangerous than in real life, partly because of the fauna, mostly because I thought to make maple tree dryads. I also recall from Cypress' story that she mentioned that she used to be much smaller than Jhon (John, however WOWandWAS is supposed to spell his name). So the idea of a spore the size of a soccer ball is quite far-fetched for me apparently. And no, the idea of milking domesticated Dryads didn't brush my mind, cause I don't have that much common sense.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I just thought of the maple syrup because I made a joke in one of my stories that it's very rare, thus really expensive, because getting maple syrup is infinitely more dangerous than in real life, partly because of the fauna, mostly because I thought to make maple tree dryads. I also recall from Cypress' story that she mentioned that she used to be much smaller than Jhon (John, however WOWandWAS is supposed to spell his name). So the idea of a spore the size of a soccer ball is quite far-fetched for me apparently. And no, the idea of milking domesticated Dryads didn't brush my mind, cause I don't have that much common sense.

The spores would depend on the size of the parent dryad - I was of course imagining it from the standpoint of trees, a smaller class of dryad not really based on a tree would of course produce smaller spores. Perhaps a soccer ball is too large, but I don't envision the spores being made to such a great extent as they are with ferns and fungi either. I don't really imagine a dryad producing hundreds or thousands of spores at a time - yet also the use of fruit is a bit problematic as generally speaking the way fruit seeds travel is that the fruit is eaten. Given the nature of digestive enzymes in Felarya, I don't think the seeds would survive.


Granted, not all fruits are designed to be eaten, yet the dispersing mechanism is generally dependent on other creatures. The ones that actually meet up well (hence my dandelion reference) aren't what most people think of as 'fruits', which is why I avoided including the name. Maple/elm/dandelion/etc are all good examples of this. Specifically my intent was to utilize this mechanism (rather than the spore explosion one) while providing the advantages given in spores as well as the unique method spores genetically develop.

Speaking of trees that develop in cold weather, I remembered that they get pollenized before winter and it's usually around fall that the seed is planted via the crop. However, this raise an issue for Snow Dryads: Where do they get the pollen? Snow Dryads are depicted to grow where you'd normally see thundra and not massive trees like Frost Peak. As for Cacti, I have no idea what pollenize their seeds or whatever.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Speaking of trees that develop in cold weather, I remembered that they get pollenized before winter and it's usually around fall that the seed is planted via the crop. However, this raise an issue for Snow Dryads: Where do they get the pollen? Snow Dryads are depicted to grow where you'd normally see thundra and not massive trees like Frost Peak. As for Cacti, I have no idea what pollenize their seeds or whatever.

The types of spores I spoke of do not require pollen. The pollen idea I threw out from the getgo.

Well they tend to look like pine trees, at least according to one picture, so how would it have spore sacs, or whatever the proper term is?

Sean Okotami wrote:

Well they tend to look like pine trees, at least according to one picture, so how would it have spore sacs, or whatever the proper term is?

There isn't really a term since it's a conglomeration of multiple ideas in my example. I would say that it would vary depending on the type of dryad, and could appear as anything from a bud-like object to a fruit like growth to something maybe even resembling a pinecone. Since I don't envision dryads creating a large amount of these spores at a time it could be limited to just one spore per. I just prefer the way a spore develops and germinates over that of a seed, and I see it as better fitting for the dryads than that of seeds. Plus it has the added bonus of not requiring any pollination, thereby giving credit to dryads having a vulva and human sexual organs by invoking gynogenesis to start the process.

I don't see why it needs to be anymore complicated than:

-Dryads bloom with flowers

-Insects pollinate flowers

-Flowers grow into fruit

-Fruit gets eaten; seeds are dispersed

-In optimal conditions, seeds bloom.

That has worked for trees for millions of years on Earth and, judging by the density of forests, on Felarya as well. No super complex explanation, no essay-length process; just short, sweet, and to the point.

Well there's also the issue of genetalia and breasts. Oh, speaking of which, Aether, you said something that breasts would contain something to attract insects. I have an insect that's the bane of Dryads, and I was wondering if it's okay that said sap or whatever also attract them.

AisuKaiko wrote:

Stuff

If you had read the first post, you'd understand why we are having this discussion.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Well there's also the issue of genetalia and breasts. Oh, speaking of which, Aether, you said something that breasts would contain something to attract insects. I have an insect that's the bane of Dryads, and I was wondering if it's okay that said sap or whatever also attract them.

Your confusing things. I was making a reference to how actual plants did things, using nectaries to generate nectar to attract insects both for reproductive and protective functions. I said they could use flowers to emit pheromones to attract potential mates of a particular type.

If a dryad's breast serves a similar function, I do not envision her having them suckle from her breasts. Like I said before, it just doesn't work. For one thing they wouldn't be able to reach the breast to begin with, and for another they wouldn't be able to suckle from the nipple anyway given its size.

In my example they look like breasts, but they don't serve the same function. They would act more like nectaries, and when the dryad desired she could ooze forth the sap/nectar/whatever to drip and pool beneath her for her 'minions'. In the domesticated example the dryad could either provide it by herself or by the 'assistance' of another 'milking' her, involving the use of some sort of container to capture the fluid. The texture of sap/nectar isn't the same as milk, and I also don't see the internal structure of the breast being the same.

The minion things are only some lizard men in the swamp that worship dryads for some reason.

rcs619 wrote:

The second option, where Dryads take advantage of the natural pollenization processes going on around them, could also help solidfy their whole "part of nature" angle. It would mean that Dryads are completely reliant on the nature around them to reproduce. This could create some issues with desert and arctic Dryads though. I imagine those would be extremely reliant on different insects and animals that help pollenization to happen, and would reproduce far less often than their jungle counterparts.

Technically, the pollen of a plant IS the male part of its reproductive process. If we use something similar to my second option, both the male and female genetic material is accounted for.

If we use the first option, we can just bank on Dryads being different genetically. I mean, they would still be getting two X chromosomes (one from each mother), which would result in female offspring. The lack of male Dryads could simply be because there are no males to contribute any Y chromosomes to the system.

*nods*

Quote :

Quote :

I would prefer it if we could give them a credible purpose. Brushing them aside as vestigial seems, to me, a bit too much of a handwave. It would be a lot neater if we could make them "fit".

On the other hand, I would tend to agree with you on not trying to describe breasts as "sap sacks" or "venom sacks". For one thing, it just doesn't sound convincing. And for another, it doesn't explain nipples. (Unless nagas can squirt jets of venom from their nipples, but that would just be... nasty. )

Yeah, I get what you mean. It really becomes a sort of catch-22. If we don't give them a purpose and claim that they are just a side-effect of the creatures being part human, then we get accused of hand-waving the whole thing. If we try and give breasts alternate functions, then we end up looking kind of silly...and like we are desperately trying to justify the giant, naked animal-women of Felarya.

Indeed... Hence my slight preference for combining human-style and plant-style reproduction. But the issue of potential breastfeeding remains tricky whatever way you look at it.

Quote :

Oh god, that last sentence made me laugh so hard XD
> Crisis: "Anna! AnnaAnnaAnnaAnna!"
> Anna: *turns* "What? What do you want, Crisis?"
> Crisis: "Look what I can do!" *squeezes her nipples, accidentally shooting a spirt of venom into Anna's eyes* "I finally figued out what they're for!" =D
"...Anna, are you alright?"
> Anna: "Ahhh, my eyes! Why does this kind of stuff always happen to me?!" *runs off to wash her eyes out*

aethernavale wrote:

So, we know that dryads engage in trysts with male giants on occasion. If we assume she doesn't actually need the sperm to provide for genetic material, merely to stimulate eggs into growth, then the second example you described comes into play. A dryad engages in sex with another of the proper equipment (since males aren't the only ones in Felarya that can do so), receiving sperm from her partner which triggers a hormonal response to create spore pods on the tree-like portions of her body. As such dryads would not require ovaries or a uterus, at least not in the human sense. Their reproduction would be handled by their plant side and not the human one.

You could even go one step further and combine the effects - for instance, flowers on plants are used to attract, either visually or chemically, the appropriate insects to pollinate them. A dryad could do the same, with her flowers providing pheromones that would attract mates of a specific type/species. The flowers would only bloom at certain intervals - basically whenever she isn't in the process of making pods. If she does have intercourse after pods are being made, it would not effect their growth/production but from a basic biological standpoint her body doesn't require it so it isn't 'advertising'. This also gives credit to dryads being intelligent - their bodies carry through with instinct but a dryad can choose whether or not to engage in sexual activity, or when they wish to do so in the case of not being 'in bloom'.

Seems pretty neat. It gives both human and plant parts a purpose, while avoiding the problematic consequences of live birth. The one thing it doesn't address is the purpose of breasts, if there's no breastfeeding, but you come to that later.

Quote :

The spores that find good environments go on to create the child dryad, which at first resembles only a small version of its likeness (so a bramble dryad would appear to be a thicket and a tree-like dryad would start as a small tree from a size similar to a human child or adolescent). and has no human characteristics. This prevents it from being predated upon by other fauna. Granted, some dryads (such as the bloom dryad) already use spores for other purposes, but some plants do create separate types of spores (usually a male and female variant, but perhaps in their case they have one set used for control and another used for procreation - though I seem to remember them having some other form of procreating than normal, something about only doing so when one of them dies or something).

Up until this point/stage all processing done for growth is by photosynthesis and absorbing the nutrients of the soil (which also no doubt helps in their growth and might also explain why they are generally larger than other preds). Once the dryad reaches a certain size it produces a large bud/sprout from one side that grows against the side of itself (sort of like a corn stalk perhaps, only more integrated with the tree?). Inside this bud the dryad's human form will manifest, and once it has done so the outer shell of the bud will dry out and peel away revealing the human form. It is during this phase of growth that the dryad becomes a part of the network, and is communally taught how to survive. That way once the bud/sprout/growth reveals the dryad, she already has the basic skills required to keep herself alive.

Slightly odd, but sensible enough, I think.

Quote :

This still leaves the question of what their breasts are for wide open. There are several routes you could take.

If you want to take the fetish route you could say that their breasts produce a nectar similar to an Alruane from the monster girls series that they can offer to potential mates. I'd say this is an iffy one though.

You could take a more realist route and say as Sean did that their breasts are repositories for a sap-like substance creation that can then be used by symbiotic creatures (perhaps generating the bonds that some people write about - like where dryads have their own personal armies of critters that aide them in getting live food and protect them from fauna and humans - perhaps their sap is payment/incentive for this). Still kinda fetishy, but not as much. Also, this does provide another use for domesticated dryads, though I'm not sure if Sean was thinking about this. His maple syrup idea. Where domesticated dryads would be utilized for their 'local network' potentials as well as for 'milking' them of their sap to be used for all the normal things sap is used for (syrup, latex, glue, amber, resin, soap/bath care, etc). This also prevents people from having to drill into them (don't think any dryad would appreciate that!). The sap idea isn't that farfetched - bramble dryads already do so in a form. Their thorns secret a liquid that they can use in defense or for prey capture.

Hmm. I suppose I just find it a little too convenient that breasts which look exactly like human breasts, complete with nipples, should exist for a purpose entirely unrelated to producing milk and feeding the mother's young. Maybe it's just me, though.

AisuKaiko wrote:

I don't see why it needs to be anymore complicated than:

I would refer the honourable gentleman to my opening post.

I did read it. Sorry I'm I'm sounding thick, but I don't see what I left out. Sorry, I must not be too observant x.x

French snack wrote:

Hmm. I suppose I just find it a little too convenient that breasts which look exactly like human breasts, complete with nipples, should exist for a purpose entirely unrelated to producing milk and feeding the mother's young. Maybe it's just me, though.

This is my problem. I agree for the most part.

By the same token though, I already did something similar with Eurhyssa as what I suggested here. Mainly because I couldn't see any other use for their breasts - they don't reproduce in a manner that would ever make a requisite to breastfeed. It's a tricky subject to tackle, and there really isn't a good way I can see to do so from a science standpoint. Breasts are mammaries. Still, at least in the Eurhyssa's case I can use the viral change that shifted their genetics to allow for the symbiotic relationship as well as their unique breeding methods to fill in the gaps.

In Terra's example of mersharks, they have breasts but no nipples. Dryads on the other hand are clearly shown with nipples.

It's a tacky problem with no easy solution if you accept the 'dryads reproduce similar to plants' explanations.

French snack wrote:

The main problem being, as you say, the... mechanics, rendered a little tricky by dryads being taller than their potential male partners.

Nah, "mechanics" is an easy problem to solve. Two words: Step stool.

The harder problem to solve is: splinters. (hat off to Terra for reminding me of this problem.)



This is not the first time we have had this conversation; previous threads include one about nursing, and one about the purpose of boobs (which is a bit more light-hearted in nature).

What I have said about the matter (which is basically just a repeat of what other people have said in this thread):

Oldman40k2003 (of 2008) wrote:

It makes sense to me that creatures with boobs would, where possible, nurse their young. Being born from an egg does not prevent being nursed (see: platypus), and it is fairly advantageous for a species to nurse their young, as it allows a "helpless baby" to be born and then "grow up" quickly, rather than having to be born as a fully functional adult.

Dryads present us with an interesting problem, considering their method of reproduction doesn't seem compatible with nursing. We know that Dryads often become the "center" of a group, with other creatures working for them. Perhaps they need to nurse a child of their group from time to time? Dryads have a great deal of control over their biochemistry, so it also might be useful to have boobs simply as a means to produce a particular fluid quickly and store a large amount of it for later use.

Although that still leave the crotch and nipples unexplained and unemployed.