On the issue of feedback

Right now, there's 300-some deviations on the Felarya group pending for me to read, and I haven't been able to provide fair feedback to the ones I've read today. I was checking on Nerdio222, Kaiman123, then Abbadon87. And not being able to say anything useful, wondering if I've let off a snark that'll rub someone the wrong way just because I'm narked off at being unable to say something worth their time reading, it's really upsetting, to the point that the things I'm tempted to say are unfair in my eyes, things I would never say in a good mood, but they're the only things I feel. Obviously, I can't say those things- even if it took me seven hours to provide incomplete feedback to just one of them. I feel so much closer to what Gregole used to be recriminated over being than I feel myself. I'm not even in the mood to be snarky, oxymoronic as it sounds.

Also, realizing that people think giving proper feedback is important, I thought it'd be a good idea to put our thoughts together, specially now that it seems giving feedback would help things. Originally I was going to post this for no real reason, but if this would help, then by all means we ought to go for it.

So in that vein, I'd like to know what is it you check for before giving your input on a story, and how you decide the words and tone to use. Whether you speak harshly or softly, whether you use exclamation marks or not: what your criteria for feedback are.



I keep in mind that stories don't need to be about any particular subject. It was something I didn't do for Erotic Guy Geoirgier, though, the time I chewed him out about his gallery's contents. There's nothing automatically wrong about a character that's too powerful, there's nothing automatically wrong with breaking the general premise of Felarya or not fully portraying it, and there's nothing automatically wrong with a vore story- as long as there is nothing wrong with it.

It is but a matter of personal taste in my case, as I cannot identify at all with such a character, I'm all about side roads and evaluating alternatives; if the question isn't "fight or flight" but "kill it with my giant chainsaw, with my fire breath, or with my brain" I get disoriented. Since none of those three things makes sense to me in the first place, I can't see the point in picking one over the others, and thus I don't see anything but a waste of perfectly good creativity, time and effort. Should've added it was just a matter of political correctness, not anything inherently wrong with it.

As for the things that can be wrong with a story, well, I try to look past grammar and spelling. They're more or less an exact science, and I'm not trying to evaluate people on their memorizing skills. Nobody reads anything for the grammar and spelling, either- but they have an impact, and it would be foolish to deny it. The fact I can read the Zodiac Killer's code doesn't mean I don't notice he made typos. Delivering a message with poor grammar and spelling will mean our attention will go at least partly to note those details. They're distracting, and so easily fixed that they can only be taken as a sign of apathy. Even if it means no ill will, that kind of apathy is a contagious. This is not something to be reasoned, deserved, or anything- it's the way things are, simple as that, at least with me. Getting past my apathy in those cases is lengthy and very bothersome: I tend to ignore them.

When you look past the grammar, the first thing I take note of is the flow of the story. Paragraphs should not be too long, they should be separated by subject as per the author's criteria. This isn't an exact science, so sometimes I'm not sure whether the paragraphs have been cut right or not- all I see is that the story itself looks rough and strange. In general, the purpose of art is to share/inflict something. By that rule I gauge the final results- often it goes nowhere.

The component parts of a paragraph, sentences, are very important where it comes to making the story readable. Sentences that go subject verb stop subject verb stop subject verb stop are an automatic failure as far as I'm concerned, because there's no feeling in them. I use feeling to separate paragraphs- one full stop every time the situation takes a turnabout, one full stop every time the scene changes, one full stop every time we return to reality from someone's mind. The sentences themselves must convey this mindset- if the sentences are all subject verb stop subject verb stop there is no feeling, I've noticed that the writers who do this also have no business cutting paragraphs. I'm wondering if those things are linked; maybe proper sentences make it easier to split in paragraphs.

Conversely or inversely, I try not to praise the content, the subject chosen to write about. I've seen it done: I don't know if there's anything wrong with that, but I don't know if there's anything right with it either, and as I said before, there's no wrong content. Praising someone for writing about something that's an interesting idea feels like a very weak compliment. It's only recently that I've observed encouragement is important too, specially if we care to see someone continue on any particular track. I'll continue exploring this kind of feedback as a means to encourage people to keep writing.

Tact is paramount as far as finishing touches go. I once went and pointed out all the wrong things about a picture, every single little thing. I got chewed out on a personal note titled "a little warning". She apologized afterwards, but it was too late: I had already learned my lesson. People have patience, but it's best not to tax it, so I try not to point out every single little thing. I point out two or three broad stroke problems instead, and do so with tact. It's best to keep a firm, serious, polite and formal tone when giving constructive criticism. Praise has no rules- but it can be taken the wrong way, so it's best to keep your pants on as well. Informality can make people uncomfortable if it's exaggerated- I should tone down my snarks, to be firmer and more direct.

Then again, I take sometimes a look at what some people point, Karbo for instance. All of a sudden, I feel like the Stop Having Fun Guy- if not the Guy who Stopped Having Fun. I have to keep in mind as well that comments are not only about feedback, but also comments as well. Toning down my snarks might make me sound firmer and more direct, but also much more distant, much less friendly. This is something people are doing for fun- and I should be able to encourage them to keep having fun, not just to improve, if improvement were one of their goals at all. Nobody here's getting paid, I should be able to help them find joy as well. Finding the right proportion between formality and informality is... taxing, to say the least.

Karbo isn't here to be the leader of the improvement effort, he's not shared Felarya to save himself work. He's shared it for the sake of having some healthy fun with pals, at least, I see things that way when I look at what he's done so far and how he's done it. And if I can't work with that and let people have fun because they are not contributing or contradicting canon, I'm the one out of place, not the other way around. While the wiki points out most of the ground rules, if people can have fun breaking them, they do no harm. If they meant any, the existence of such intent is best left unacknowledged.



Well, what do you keep in mind when giving feedback?

As far as feedback goes, I'm not all that good when it comes to pictures. It's either like or don't, and once in a while, I may crack some joke.

When it comes to stories, I usually comment on the story as a whole, such as the characters, how things are described, flow and such, like I was reviewing something, which I noticed that not a lot of people do on dA in regular comments. However, I'm not very good for positive points, but I can ramble on the negatives. I usually go with something like, What I found weak - Why it was weak - A suggestion to make the point more solid. I try not to attack the person directly, since you're not really addressing the points that need work.

Well that's an interesting thread here

Personnaly I don't really care if a story is not absolutely conform to Felarya cannons. For example Racemaster's stories are playing a lot on crossovers, twist Felarya left and right, and yet they are enjoyable and pleaseant to follow ^_^
My main criteria is if I'm drawed in. You know ? when you somehow forget you are reading a story, you are in the story. Those are really the stories I personnaly enjoy the most in general.
The things I will typically point in a feedback is if there is some out- of - characters, and also problem of rythm, when for example the author jump very fast from one event to another, as it generally makes it quite difficult for the reader to be drawed in.
I'm also pointing Deux ex machinas, as those are really among the most harmful things in writting when abused I think.

Karbo wrote:

Personnaly I don't really care if a story is not absolutely conform to Felarya cannons.

Yeah, I guess some of us are a little more prudish about that than others. I'd probably fall into the "prude" category.

Karbo wrote:

I'm also pointing Deux ex machinas, as those are really among the most harmful things in writting when abused I think.

When abused, of course. Unfortunately, they're almost always abused when present.

When I give feedback I try my very best to give encouragement without sounding too critical. I hate saying "I didn't like this part" but I guess it's something that you have to say from time to time. It's very easy to be misunderstood on the Net.

Oh, I agree. I felt a little bad critiquing the pic of Zion that Stabs did. It was a good piece, but not perfect, because nothing's perfect. I think I managed to do it without sounding like a jerkmeister.

I try very hard to allow people a lot of leeway when they're using my characters. I realize that it's next to impossible to see a character EXACTLY the say way their creator does. But I find that sometimes other writers or artists manage to capture a trait that I might have overlooked. And I think that's wonderful. In any case, I'm always thrilled when someone asks to use my characters. It's shows that people like them. And to me-that's the best feedback.

I think an issue sometimes is people not giving enough feedback. Like they say "Cool" or "awesome" or "that was good" It is something that not many people want to hear. They want people to be more in depth.