how to get on the Negav council

Other than being human and a native of Felarya, what else does a person require in order to become a Ps'isol Magiocrat?

Being from wherever they're from, for starters. I mean, they have to come from somewhere, so surely they have some little homeworld stretching back their probably convoluted backstory.

Axel Hunter wrote:

Other than being human and a native of Felarya, what else does a person require in order to become a Ps'isol Magiocrat?

I would imagine that the only way to get on is to be chosen by them. The Ps'isol Magiocrat council was founded after the Great Destruction by a group of powerful mages who were trying to pull the city back together. The only people who select new members of the council are current members of the council.

Their struture isn't exactly known, so they could just select new members whenever they feel like it, or they could have a set number of members and only select new ones when a current member dies or retires.

If Lesona is any indication, some Magiocrat members are former officers of the Isolon Fist that moved up the ranks and gained enough connections and influence to be appointed to the council.

Axel, unless you require a Magiocrat character for a story or something, I'd strongly suggest not delving into this topic for now.

To answer your question I'd say:
Be a powerful mage.
Be Intelligent. Including worldly-wisdom. Can't be naive and have that kind of power.
Have Connections. They're not going to let any old mage in.
As cliff said, the Isolon Fist and other organisations close to the magiocrats would be a good way to become one.

I'd say that there hasn't been any new Magiocrats for a while. I mean, Lady Lesona is apparently really young for a magiocrat and she's 62.

I will say this, the Magiocrats are not big bads. Nor should they be. Also, while they are master spellcasters and each probably has their own favoured style (for example, Lady Lesona favours curses), I'm not really seeing them have a distinct "theme" like you previous attempts.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Axel, unless you require a Magiocrat character for a story or something, I'd strongly suggest not delving into this topic for now.

Im only opening up the discussion, if a Magiocrat does come up in my story (and one might) then I will delve into it. for now Im just opening things up for discussion. nothing more.

and themes are my way of creating characters, its what I'm best at (and its all I can really do)

Defeating a Giant Predator in Battle!!!! lol... something epic!

I'd say be a very skilled mage with political power and/or money.

Just being a skilled mage but with no political power or ambition or money would likely mean you would be a high ranking Isolon Fist officer, but not a council member.

If you have these things, the Magiocrats would likely vote to have you as a member of the council if a spot opens up. If there are limited spots, competition is probably intense. Working in something like the Isolon Fist is a good way to get their attention.

As well, considering that many die quickly on Felarya, but great ages are also possible, age would also be a factor - it means having had more time to learn much more.

Knowing how some of the members operate, you'd probably need to be a wizard in the art of blackmail and bribery.

It's how most Negav politicians work anyway.

Pendragon wrote:

It's how most Negav politicians work anyway.

Just Negavian ones?

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Pendragon wrote:

It's how most Negav politicians work anyway.

Just Negavian ones?

*Rimshot.*

Black Aquila wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Pendragon wrote:

It's how most Negav politicians work anyway.

Just Negavian ones?

*Rimshot.*

I think the Magiocrats get a bit of a bad rap, personally. I mean, yes, the Negavian government is very authoritarian, very factional, and in some ways corrupt...but look at what the Magiocrats have done.

They took Negav, a city on the brink of destruction after the failures of King Micolon, and they not only rebuilt it, they rebuilit bigger and stronger than it had ever been before. They turned it into a fortress of relative safety in a world that punishes stupidity and weakness with death. They took an isolated community of humans and demi-humans in a strange pocket-dimension, and linked it up with dozens of different worlds across the universe. They've made the city into a trade powerhouse with insane amounts of goods, services and money coming in from many different civilizations. They formed a highly trained and well-equipped military unit that can actually fight and drive off/kill the massive, dangerous creatures of the jugnle, and they forged an uneasy alliance with the Vishmitals who, with their weapon emplacements, provide an extra line of defense for the city.

The average Negavian, while not necissarily completely happy with the Magiocrats all the time, is relatively safe and has the chance to lead a decent enough life.

I really think the most interesting dynamic within the Magiocrats is going to be between the older and younger members, personally. I always had the impression that the Isolon Fist, at least in its current form, is relatively new. Lady Lesona and a few others may very well be the first wave of Isolon Fist officers that are making it onto the Magiocrat council. You'd then have these new, young, former soldiers, who have actually been outside the walls, and actually fought against the dangers of Felarya...and they'd be working with the elder council members, many of which are likely career politicians and beaurocrats, who have no real first-hand knowledge of the world outside the walls, or of fighting against its threats.

Should make for a really interesting dynamic as more Isolon Fist officers make it onto the council.

rcs619 wrote:

I think the Magiocrats get a bit of a bad rap, personally. I mean, yes, the Negavian government is very authoritarian, very factional, and in some ways corrupt...but look at what the Magiocrats have done.

They took Negav, a city on the brink of destruction after the failures of King Micolon, and they not only rebuilt it, they rebuilit bigger and stronger than it had ever been before. They turned it into a fortress of relative safety in a world that punishes stupidity and weakness with death. They took an isolated community of humans and demi-humans in a strange pocket-dimension, and linked it up with dozens of different worlds across the universe. They've made the city into a trade powerhouse with insane amounts of goods, services and money coming in from many different civilizations. They formed a highly trained and well-equipped military unit that can actually fight and drive off/kill the massive, dangerous creatures of the jugnle, and they forged an uneasy alliance with the Vishmitals who, with their weapon emplacements, provide an extra line of defense for the city.

I think that the National Socialist Party of 1930's Germany also gets a bad rap. Sure, they were very authoritarian... but look at what the Nazis had done.

They took Germany, a nation in severe poverty after the failures of the Kaiser, and they not only rebuilt it, they rebuilt it bigger and stronger than it had ever been before. They turned it into a superpower in a world full of enemies and suspicious empires. They took a fragmented community of humans in an ethnically-diverse section of Europe and united them, for the most part. They made the nation into a military powerhouse that took on most of the world's major powers with limited assistance. They formed a highly-trained and well-equipped military that could actually fight the militaries of several other nations at once, and they formed an uneasy alliance with the xenophobic Japanese Empire, who, with their powerful navy, provided a powerful punch in the Pacific against China, Russia, the U.S., and Australia.

rcs619 wrote:

The average Negavian, while not necissarily completely happy with the Magiocrats all the time, is relatively safe and has the chance to lead a decent enough life.

The average (non-Jew/non-Gypsy/non-retarded/heterosexual) German, while not necessarily completely happy with the Nazis all the time, was relatively safe and had the chance to lead a decent enough life.

Tyranny is tyranny.

At least until it began trying to create one pure race by expanding everywhere and attempt a mass extermination of Jews.

What the fuck, Zion.

You take my comment and then use Nazis to completely ruin everything I said. Classy, man. Classy.

I really don't think there are many parallels between a facist, ultra-national militaristic government...and a defensive fortress-city/trade hub run by a group of mages, who's main concern is keeping the city defended and safe. Seriously man, what the fuck.

Sean Okotami wrote:

At least until it began trying to create one pure race by expanding everywhere and attempt a mass extermination of Jews.

YIKES, change the subject. Lets not get a fight on our hands (if there isnt one coming, cool)

rcs619 wrote:

What the fuck, Zion.

You take my comment and then use Nazis to completely ruin everything I said. Classy, man. Classy.

I really don't think there are many parallels between a facist, ultra-national militaristic government...and a defensive fortress-city/trade hub run by a group of mages, who's main concern is keeping the city defended and safe. Seriously man, what the fuck.

Also, HITLER ATE SUGER!!!

Comparing the Magiocrats to the Nazi's shows a fairly narrow view of how that government works. It also shows a general ignorance of historical systems.

The closest system on Earth to Negav is, I think, Italian City-States in the Early Modern Period. The Magiocrats aren't exterminating members of other races, even if there is suspicion - Negav is still a hub of a variety of different cultures.

Negav is, like Florence or , Venice, ruled by a citizen appointed oligarchy - true, not all citizens really have a say, but in a smaller city-state citizen opinion does matter a lot more - all the citizens demanding something can get it - look at what happened to Savonarola in Florence. He by no means had the support of the elite - the populace rose him up and the populace eventually lit him on fire.

In short, the situation in Negav is a complex one unique to a city state existing in a hostile environment. Just because it does not fall into modern nationalistic ideas of a "state" does not make it an evil government. It does not make it a good government either. It's an entirely different historical and environmental context.

It makes it something far more complex and just rebutting with "OMFG NAZIS" is the height of simplification and ignorance.

Well, not trying to defend them, but they did rebuild Germany during the Great Depression. Although I'm pretty sure Italy did it first with Mussolini. I'm aware that the atrocities they made outweighs rebuilding a nation, but that'd beside the point. How 'bout we set that train back on track?

The Magiocrats remain in power because they are powerful, smart, and overall good leaders. There may be tensions between species in the city, but the Magiocrats generally do not single a species out and declare a death vendetta on them without an actual good reason. That would be bad for business after all.

My point is, both Cliff and JT, that success is not an excuse for authoritarian ideals. True, Nazi Germany was not the most accurate comparison, but it was a dramatic one. Perhaps a little more so than intended.

THE WIKI wrote:

Their rule is definitely authoritarian, with the Magiocrats sharing most of the executive power among themselves, leaving very little outside their hands. In practice however, you will find few Negavians who would complain, at least not too loudly. First because it's not very healthy,

That implies SS-style oppression of dissent and free speech. That is a violation of human rights, especially in a government that is not run by the people.

Plus, we never covered just how widespread racism is in Negav. I'm not saying genocide is going on, but it's been suggested that nekos are disliked in certain circles.

I personally think that the Magiocrat and their part of the entry should be revised. I highly doubt that Karbo wanted to have that kind of subtext with Negav, even if they aren't squeaky clean.

I am simply working off of the source material.

Also:

THE WIKI wrote:

[Lady Lesona] claims she want to cleanse Felarya of its predators, since she lost her sister to them, but some troubling elements of her past and current behavior suggest that it may not be the full story.

CLEANSE. It's as if the wiki entry on her just wanted to defend my point! Not only do we have a leader claiming to have genocide in mind, an effort which would result in the destruction of Negav at the hands of the Guardians, but now she's got a shady and hidden agenda? Yes, such fair and just rule!

Not to mention the private military force that answers only to her. That's always a good sign.

(I would like to point out that I will be unable to read the manga until my paycheck comes in.)

I don't think Negav or any where on Felarya is a good location for a democracy, representative or otherwise, infact if you put it to vote most people would favour the security of living a life without having to face the perils of the jungle, in Negav they have that. The fact Felarya is a world of death hidden under a vail of natural beauty and wonder requires leadership with pragmatisim at its core. On Earth we have it rather easy being the dominant species and it is very easy for people of Western democracies to critisise governments which do not fit our view of the world. Felarya is not Earth, and the current government in Negav is not a result of human corruption or ineptitude; rather the Magiocrats and the Vishmitals offer the citizens protection, without one or the other the city's protection would be compromised; both side recognised this thus ruling out the possibilities of a full blown civil war even though both sides are in direct compition with one an other. If both major power players can 'get along' without being at each others throats every second, I'm guessing the general populace would figure out they are better off under their rule. Yes there is a threat of revolt if things get too bad, but such an act would be suicide in the end; no Magiocrats no Isolon Eye.

While the Magiocrats have put themselves in a position of authoritiarian rule, and without us you're fu'ked, that doesn't mean they intend to oppress the average citizens. When the Metropolitian Security Division started to do so they were ordered to dispand in favour of a more people friendly Negav Police. However while the Negav Police is a much more open and less xenophobic organisation it is very inefficent when compared to the old MSD; and that is part of the problem with democracies when you have citizens from so many back grounds. Leadership on Felarya requires pragmatism, and having a system were everyone has a say just isn't efficent enough for survival.

Lesona has a personnal aggenda yes but that is due to personnal tragedy; think about it if the preds didn't view humans as a simple food source then I doubt humans would have such a fearful view of them.

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

infact if you put it to vote most people would favour the security of living a life without having to face the perils of the jungle,

Yes, but it would have been put to a vote. Does principle count for nothing?

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

Lesona has a personnal aggenda yes but that is due to personnal tragedy

Personal agendas should not factor into government. That is corruption.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

infact if you put it to vote most people would favour the security of living a life without having to face the perils of the jungle,

Yes, but it would have been put to a vote. Does principle count for nothing?

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

Lesona has a personnal aggenda yes but that is due to personnal tragedy

Personal agendas should not factor into government. That is corruption.

When you're life is on the line in a situation which is mostly out of your control I think one's principles take the back seat.

In that case you can shoot every politician who has ever lived and served, it isn't something that is going to change; we're all human. However the main point being it is part of the manga's plot so unless Karbo plans to rewrite everything I don't see things changing.