Dridder Senses

So a buddy of mine on Steam showed me an article about spider hair - http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/12/spider-leg-hair-hearing/

I remember that there was a thread about different types of "predator sense" which I can't seem to find because I'm too lazy to use the search button, so I'll just be short and sweet on that one. Pretty much what this article show is that spiders are apparently incredibly sensitive to sound and such. So, does anyone think it would be much of a stretch that this would be the dridder's equivalent to the "predator sense"?

It seems like a good idea, and it would help to add more realism to the felaryan world, though i think it would either change the looks of the dridders, or this sense would vary from species to species. If the sense was the same for all species it would probably add more hair to their exoskeleton. Also on a side note, it would make them rather vulnerable to fire and fire magic as it would singe off all of these sensory hairs essentially creating a blind spot, or completely disabling them. This effect would be temporary or permanent depending on the severity of the burn.

Well, my browser just destroyed everything I spent the last 60 minutes writing up, fucking hate that shit. So if this seems brief it's because I damn well didn't feel like typing up my stereotypical wall o'text again.





It's not really sound, it's vibration that they are sensitive to (which thus allows 'sound' by extension), and yes, I've brought this up on several occasions in the past. I've already implemented it with Jewel Dridders. However, I believe there are specialty margins to it.

For example, some of you have probably noticed the changes to the wiki dridder page which was a result of me being relatively bitchy regarding what I call the 'base set' of dridders (sorry about that still, Karbo; wasn't necessarily my intent to come off as pushy as I did with regards to it).

I don't think vibrational analysis should be a 'be all end all' of dridder predator sense, because I believe the two different base sets of dridders operate on different wavelengths. Wanderers are comparable to hunters, and weavers to orb-weavers in nature, meaning that in my personal opinion that while all dridders have some ability to sense vibration, wanderers have less ability compared to weavers, which they make up for with having superior eyesight. That doesn't mean I think weavers are blind or anything, just that I think their senses are more god-like in sensing vibration and only average / below average in sight, where a wanderer would be amazing in visual acumen and more like above average in sensing; when compared with another predator of the same size and talents.

That being said, I really did toy with the idea of Reya having less than optimal eyesight and requiring glasses..... managed to beat that impulse down though during design stage, since it would put her at too much of a disadvantage just so I could create an even cuter visage (in my opinion) of her.



Evil Genius, I have to disagree with you about your post however. Size and number of hairs does not affect the ability to sense vibration. In nature, orb-weavers generally have smooth carapaces with lots of tiny, short hairs. Hunters typically have hairy bodies - and indeed, some species of tarantula can even use particular fur as a weapon. However, an orb-weaver is much greater in it's vibrational analysis ability, and a hunter relies more on it's sight. On top of that, hunters have scopulae while weavers have more specialized claws. This is not black and white, but is a very good overarching generalization that I've tried to see applied to the dridder species sets. Thus, I do not believe anything needs to change as it currently stands with viewing of dridders; they can be as smooth or as furry as the designer / writer / artist desires without necessitating a change in what they can 'sense'.

Also, I tend to go with the route that all insect-like, chitin carapace creatures have some natural variance to their resistance of magic. This tends to mean that they are not the best spell casters themselves (though there can always be exceptions), but they would have a natural resistance to magical based fire - meaning if you wanted to burn off their fur, you'd need to do with either really powerful magic, the side effects of magic, or with technology. This also stems from me desiring to see at least one major species relying more on technology than magic for their accomplishments - and dridders already have this in place with their renowned physical warrior attributes and smithing skills.

Additionally, I completely disagree with a dridder sustaining permanent physical injury. Chitin carapaces offer amazing protection over weaker human type skin frames, but as a result they don't stretch and cannot be replaced over time like human skin is. In order to grow from youth to adult and to repair injuries they sustain, as well as just a natural, periodic rejuvenation, they need to molt. Molting is essentially going to reset any 'damage' they sustained previously, thus anything that doesn't outright kill them isn't going to be left behind as a scar, and their fur cannot be permanently burned off.

The issue is not that because the hairs are bigger, they must be more susceptible. It's that if they're delicate enough to be used to detect prey from afar via vibrations (as opposed to, say, being able to pinpoint where on their web something's struggling), they're going to be extremely vulnerable to vibrations (which, by extension, typically covers noise / sonic actions). You can't at once be delicate enough that you can, say, feel someone man-sized moving about 50m away through vibrations, but similarly be no more vulnerable than the average Joe to concussive waves.

If you're only applying this to their webs, you don't need to worry. If you're doing something like "Wait, behind that tree, something's moving"... yeah, if your hairs are that vulnerable, someone using a "Shout!" style attack (be it a Fus-Ro-Da, magically amplified loudness, Telekinesis, an explosion's force, whatever) is going to hurt like a bitch. Try plucking one of your cat's whiskers (actually, please don't). It'll be like that, but across a large portion of the body. Yes, you're making it extremely clear you're there, but you're also burning out / causing sensory overload / making loads of pain for the effort.

I'll not comment on permanent injury, as I'm not sure how non-Mammalians react to intense burns. But considering high-severity burns can go down to the bone, and Evil's whole point was "depending on severity", I'm leaning more toward "can cause permanent injury" than "cannot cause permanent injury".

Malahite wrote:

The issue is not that because the hairs are bigger, they must be more susceptible. It's that if they're delicate enough to be used to detect prey from afar via vibrations (as opposed to, say, being able to pinpoint where on their web something's struggling), they're going to be extremely vulnerable to vibrations (which, by extension, typically covers noise / sonic actions). You can't at once be delicate enough that you can, say, feel someone man-sized moving about 50m away through vibrations, but similarly be no more vulnerable than the average Joe to concussive waves.

If you're only applying this to their webs, you don't need to worry. If you're doing something like "Wait, behind that tree, something's moving"... yeah, if your hairs are that vulnerable, someone using a "Shout!" style attack (be it a Fus-Ro-Da, magically amplified loudness, Telekinesis, an explosion's force, whatever) is going to hurt like a bitch. Try plucking one of your cat's whiskers (actually, please don't). It'll be like that, but across a large portion of the body. Yes, you're making it extremely clear you're there, but you're also burning out / causing sensory overload / making loads of pain for the effort.

Mm, don't know if the first part is at me, but I will assume that it is. I've never advocated for any 'sense' to be so accurate it can pinpoint to such a level (with the exception perhaps of echolocation abilities). No dridder should be able to ascertain something to so exact a degree unless their silk is involved, which introduces a whole slew of new items.

Malahite wrote:

I'll not comment on permanent injury, as I'm not sure how non-Mammalians react to intense burns. But considering high-severity burns can go down to the bone, and Evil's whole point was "depending on severity", I'm leaning more toward "can cause permanent injury" than "cannot cause permanent injury".

You're thinking too much in human terms. A dridder's carapace is its skeleton. Getting scratched is equivocal of 'going down to the bone'. If it molts, it will refresh the body and reset back to a 'natural / normal' state, which means that scarring or inherent loss is not possible. I do believe in some variance, from a psychological or emotional standpoint - this can be seen with how my character Aidee's fur tone is matte vice shiny, which was a result of a psychological stressor being present during a molt that forever adjusted an element - but this sort of application should not be able to produce anything more significant than changes of such a nature.

Should a limb be seared to the point where it loses a decent chunk, molting will not restore it immediately. Even when molting does occur it can take two or three sheds to completely repair the wound, thus leaving room for error. Things can bent ever so slightly when the limb is still soft creating an imperfection, this imperfection would be replicated and even increased in each following molt thus creating what is essentially a scar.

When a limb is damaged to the point where it can no longer support itself, to put any weight on it would be detrimental, and these high level burns are not going to be sustained spontaneously on a walk through the forest, they ill be sustained when the dridder in question is in the heat of battle, when said leg will be a vital appendage in keeping balance and defense. This will force even more stress upon it creating even more damage and room for error. Molting is not a cure all, and shedding one's exoskeleton will not restore lost appendages instantly. Even if it eventually does heal perfect, there will be a lot of time where it is virtually useless.

On a rather off note i believe it was mention elsewhere that dridders may have both an endo and an exoskeleton, this may just be my imagination though as it seems to be overkill, i will post it when i find it.

EvilGenius wrote:

Should a limb be seared to the point where it loses a decent chunk, molting will not restore it immediately. Even when molting does occur it can take two or three sheds to completely repair the wound, thus leaving room for error. Things can bent ever so slightly when the limb is still soft creating an imperfection, this imperfection would be replicated and even increased in each following molt thus creating what is essentially a scar.

When a limb is damaged to the point where it can no longer support itself, to put any weight on it would be detrimental, and these high level burns are not going to be sustained spontaneously on a walk through the forest, they ill be sustained when the dridder in question is in the heat of battle, when said leg will be a vital appendage in keeping balance and defense. This will force even more stress upon it creating even more damage and room for error. Molting is not a cure all, and shedding one's exoskeleton will not restore lost appendages instantly. Even if it eventually does heal perfect, there will be a lot of time where it is virtually useless.

On a rather off note i believe it was mention elsewhere that dridders may have both an endo and an exoskeleton, this may just be my imagination though as it seems to be overkill, i will post it when i find it.

Noone said a thing about time required to restore from it, just that damage to a carapace is not permanent. Don't put words into my text.

I was the one who said that they have both an endo and exo skeleton, and it is not overkill. Given their size, it isn't possible for them to have just one if the exterior shell is indeed an exoskeleton. They have to be closed circulation, which means not having an interior support structure is not going to work. Now, the endoskeleton in my design, once again, is nothing like a humans. I believe that predators aren't humans and shouldn't be human - though of course they do have some anthromorphic or zoomorphic qualities given the nature of the Felaryan universe itself. I put a lot of time and effort into that particular point, and the results are on my website in the form of the Jewel Dridder and Eurhyssa species information pages.

I also disagree with this 'room for error' argument. In my synopsis on molting, it is a complete breakdown and recreation of the shell during a molt, which is not the general process for earth critters - but given the nature of Felaryan hybrid predators, going about molting with that mindset honestly just wouldn't work. So basically I recreated it from scratch. The molting process I developed for Eurhyssa and Jewel Dridders will not allow for this 'room of error', since doing so from an evolutionary standpoint (especially regarding Jewel Dridders with their genetic stagnation) would be lethality itself. In order to grow up, they have to molt; if a 'margin of error' existed in repairing normal 'damage' sustained to the carapace throughout the youth to adult cycle, they more than likely wouldn't make it to adulthood.

So no, agree to disagree.

ah, so the felaryan molting has more similarities to a pupation then an actual molt? in either case it appears that you have information that i have not yet discovered, i shall be backing out of this topic until i can add more valid and factual input, thank you for correcting my mistakes.

Though a last minute question occurred to me, if the felaryan molt is indeed similar to a pupa, or chrysalis, then wont it take even longer to rebuild the exoskeleton for something so large? also would the endo-skeleton cause any complications?

EvilGenius wrote:

ah, so the felaryan molting has more similarities to a pupation then an actual molt? in either case it appears that you have information that i have not yet discovered, i shall be backing out of this topic until i can add more valid and factual input, thank you for correcting my mistakes.

Though a last minute question occurred to me, if the felaryan molt is indeed similar to a pupa, or chrysalis, then wont it take even longer to rebuild the exoskeleton for something so large? also would the endo-skeleton cause any complications?

There is no such thing as a Felaryan molt. I keep my ideas separate from the wiki / canon so that I am not restricted by anything / anyone. Karbo is not a science background type of person, and I doubt he really ever felt the need to carry it to such detail / extremes.


A clipping from my Jewel Dridder species entry regarding molts:

Quote :

Whilst unable to take advan­tage of all heal­ing mag­ics — includ­ing that of the Felaryan soil — Jewel Drid­ders are capa­ble of heal­ing any injuries that do not out­right kill them through molt­ing. Though a por­tion of their body appears as human-like, the human ‘skin’ is actu­ally made of a a soft, pli­ant chitin under­neath which the harder armor-like chitin can be found.

Unlike an Earth spi­der, Jewel Drid­ders do not actu­ally shed the cuti­cle; instead they replace it with a new cuti­cle secreted from glands beneath the inner­most exoskele­tal layer which then breaks down the old cuti­cle lay­ers and allows for growth and repair. The ‘set­ting’ of the new cuti­cle gen­er­ally requires up to a week after the drid­der emerges from the molt­ing cocoon regard­less of age.

The molt­ing process is a dan­ger­ous time for a Jewel Drid­der, with early-life molts requir­ing one to two days to com­plete and mature adult molts requir­ing upwards of ten days. Dur­ing a molt, the drid­der is com­pletely defense­less, and after the molt they must wait for their new cuti­cle to prop­erly harden. Not only is their ‘skin’ layer extremely soft, but all of their hair and fur is shed just prior to the molt dras­ti­cally reduc­ing their sens­ing abilities.

Due to the exten­sive and sen­si­tive nature of the molt­ing process, most Jewel Drid­ders will try to col­lect a good stock of food prior to so that they off­set the risks incurred with need­ing to hunt. Need­less to say, the period prior to a molt is a dan­ger­ous time to be in the ter­ri­tory of a Jewel Dridder.

There are more details regarding it in the fact files, and it differs slightly between my two species given the employment method, but the rest of the information is more scattered than this particular nugget.