Giant Predator as a main character?

I have a very hard time trying to see this world Karbo created as a non-Crapsack World. It is also very very DIFFICULT for me to see a Giant predator as anything but a Epic Boss in a game of some sort or involved in a Epic Boss fight with the main characters. What Im trying to say is... Why do some people insist on making a Giant Predator a battle companion to the main character. I kinda see that as a OP'd main character group. Dont get me wrong I like Karbo's world. It's just that, I cant seem to write a story( with a good storyline) involving the main character and his/her Giant naga/mermaid/dridder fighting something. I just cant seem to grasp it.

So why don't you just focus on daily life instead? It's not like you have to make a battlefest, and it would be an exercise in characters and relationships, specially when one could very well eat the other. There's a LOT of these in the community actually

Slimetoad wrote:

So why don't you just focus on daily life instead? It's not like you have to make a battlefest, and it would be an exercise in characters and relationships, specially when one could very well eat the other. There's a LOT of these in the community actually

Im not a daily life romance kind of guy, I am a Epic fantasy battle kind of guy. Daily life isnt my forte. Besides, Felarya is pretty much a World of Badass(If you dont become very dangerous, very quickly, you are most certainly going to die a slow agonizing death). Daily life in Felarya, will consist of people dying, intense drama, adventure, nude ladies, death, excitement and so on. A good story in my book will consist mainly about the main character surviving against all odds Felarya throws at him/her while traveling(and of course fighting). Oh sure, there are a endless supply of The n00bs and Newbs and a few TheObiWans(which mind you last longer than the n00bs, and more skilled and level-headed than the Newbs), but most people who go to felarya won't last long.(Especially if they are a n00b).

You'd be surprised. Despite the prevalence of giants in stories, they aren't actually that common in the jungle. Most are territorial, having a territory with a radius of 47 to 65 kilometres.^[citation] That's huge, for a human. This means that for a human to encounter a giant predator they have to be incredibly unlucky. ^[1]

Giant hybrid predators aren't the only danger though, there's plenty of smaller but more common dangers that you can see in the wiki. They aren't as difficult to overcome though.

I don't think that the likelihood of dying is quite as high as you make it out to be.

That said, remember that there are great riches to be had in the jungle, people go in there for a reason. Obviously enough return to make it worthwhile. But people don't write about that aspect that much; they focus on the giants.

I think a real opportunity for you is to write about the the people who don't encounter giants or who manage to slip past them relatively unscathed.

AS for making friends with giants and having them as battle companions... Well that's part of the relationship thing that slimetoad mentioned. Do remember that it isn't easy to make friends with a giant predator though.

For a giant predator as a main character, it's kind of hard since they don't have the motivation for a lot of adventure. They live in the moment.

BlackAion wrote:

I have a very hard time trying to see this world Karbo created as a non-Crapsack World.

Well, that's something Felarya and Ravenloft have in common. There's so many things that are dangerous and stuff, but there's one thing people tend to gloss over despite everyone doing their best to portray it. Felarya is a lot like a mountain dew ad. If you live, you get to see the fishes, or the flowers, or the green. Every breath that isn't laden with dust is as refreshing as it gets, and touching the ground on your bare feet alone can cure anything. Let's not even get into the water, it's so refreshing it could refresh a webpage.

BlackAion wrote:

It is also very very DIFFICULT for me to see a Giant predator as anything but a Epic Boss in a game of some sort or involved in a Epic Boss fight with the main characters. What Im trying to say is... Why do some people insist on making a Giant Predator a battle companion to the main character. I kinda see that as a OP'd main character group. Dont get me wrong I like Karbo's world. It's just that, I cant seem to write a story( with a good storyline) involving the main character and his/her Giant naga/mermaid/dridder fighting something. I just cant seem to grasp it.

Mm, I don't think I've seen that much of that myself. I try to keep abreast of what is written, but I'm kind of backlogged... I would take your word, however, that there's a lot of battle couples where one of them doesn't wear pants because they can't. Try reading the other things then...

BlackAion wrote:

Im not a daily life romance kind of guy, I am a Epic fantasy battle kind of guy. Daily life isnt my forte. Besides, Felarya is pretty much a World of Badass(If you dont become very dangerous, very quickly, you are most certainly going to die a slow agonizing death). Daily life in Felarya, will consist of people dying, intense drama, adventure, nude ladies, death, excitement and so on.

We can do both.

DIE DEADER:

More seriously, daily life in Felarya doesn't consist of those things. Daily life consists of daily life, and some people will have more interesting and active lives than others. Not everyone is going to star a Die Hard movie everyday: there's butchers, foragers, and people who just find a safe place and hide.

All bets are off as to whose story will be worth following of course though.

BlackAion wrote:

A good story in my book will consist mainly about the main character surviving against all odds Felarya throws at him/her while traveling(and of course fighting). Oh sure, there are a endless supply of The n00bs and Newbs and a few TheObiWans(which mind you last longer than the n00bs, and more skilled and level-headed than the Newbs), but most people who go to felarya won't last long.(Especially if they are a n00b).

Aye, me too. We'll have to keep looking then.

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I have a very hard time trying to see this world Karbo created as a non-Crapsack World.

To be fair, it really depends where you live. Humans living in Negav or Chiotia are pretty much safe and have the chance to live perfectly good lives, same with all the other, as of now unknown, cities and settlements scattered about.

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It is also very very DIFFICULT for me to see a Giant predator as anything but a Epic Boss in a game of some sort or involved in a Epic Boss fight with the main characters

Well, keep in mind, predators have day-to-day lives too. Humans aren't everywhere, so really, they could go days or weeks without seeing one depending on the area. In the meantime, they'd be dealing with their own business. Surviving day to day, finding stuff to eat, spending time with friends, or having adventures of their own. Felarya is a dangerous place for giants too sometimes.

Honestly, preds make terrible "boss fights" 90% of the time. It takes serious firepower and good tactics to have a shot. That's why there's currently only one known canon group (excluding offworlders like the Delurans and Miritans), the Isolon Fist, that can fight them with an acceptable degree of success. Even then, they're using some of the most powerful and well-trained human-sized mages, alongside soldiers armed with offworld and/or magi-tech weaponry. Taking down a giant pred is just not within the realm of possibility for most people and groups.

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What Im trying to say is... Why do some people insist on making a Giant Predator a battle companion to the main character

A pred and a human-sized person can be an interesting duo, and there's a lot of potential for interesting scenarios and conversations. But, a human/pred combat-team is usually bad writing. It usually winds up being one of two things:

1: The human character is completely OP and a pred is the only partner that can keep up with them

or

2: The author is using the pred as a crutch to allow the human to do stupid/dangerous things and get his/her ass pulled out of the fire by the pred

The only good instance I can remember recent of humans and a pred teaming up to fight was in the third manga:

Spoiler:

In that case, it worked though. The fight was unexpected for the humans and their pred ally, and they were forced to defend themselves from an opponent who was in her element.

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It's just that, I cant seem to write a story( with a good storyline) involving the main character and his/her Giant naga/mermaid/dridder fighting something. I just cant seem to grasp it.

That is a sign that you are sane. Unless that human is a battlemage, or is armed with a rocket-launcher, he/she would basically be useless in any kind of fight that needed a pred in it.

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Daily life isnt my forte. Besides, Felarya is pretty much a World of Badass(If you dont become very dangerous, very quickly, you are most certainly going to die a slow agonizing death). Daily life in Felarya, will consist of people dying, intense drama, adventure, nude ladies, death, excitement and so on. A good story in my book will consist mainly about the main character surviving against all odds Felarya throws at him/her while traveling(and of course fighting).

Once again, it depends. People live their entire lives in Negav without ever seeing a pred, and some people in Chiotia are probably never going to meet one personally.

As for the rest...ehh, I think you've got an overly romanticized view on combat and predation. Most things in Felarya, be they giant hybrid pred, giant feral animal, or carnivorous plant...or even something as simple as a venomous snake or insect...they aren't going to lumber out and set the stage for an epic battle. They are going to strike quickly, violently, and the whole thing is going to be decided one way or another within the first minute or two. Think of it this way, if a tiger attacked you, what would happen? You'd either get caught completely unprepared and die or get seriously maimed, you'd manage to get to your weapon and kill it before it kills you, or you would try and hide/get out of reach.

Occasionally, yes, you can have an "epic battle". I wrote a story about an Isolon Fist squad engaging a naga, but those kinds of things are not that common, and even then, the Isolon Fist didn't engage until they basically had a total advantage.

That's the way real fighting works. When you're fighting for your life you get every advantage possible, you don't break out complex kung-fu, you kick the other guy in the balls and hit him while he's down. Sometimes you can have a complex kung-fu fight...but its pretty rare.

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You'd be surprised. Despite the prevalence of giants in stories, they aren't actually that common in the jungle. Most are territorial, having a territory with a radius of 47 to 65 kilometres.[citation] That's huge, for a human. This means that for a human to encounter a giant predator they have to be incredibly unlucky.

^ This

rcs619 wrote:

Honestly, preds make terrible "boss fights" 90% of the time. It takes serious firepower and good tactics to have a shot. That's why there's currently only one known canon group (excluding offworlders like the Delurans and Miritans), the Isolon Fist, that can fight them with an acceptable degree of success. Even then, they're using some of the most powerful and well-trained human-sized mages, alongside soldiers armed with offworld and/or magi-tech weaponry. Taking down a giant pred is just not within the realm of possibility for most people and groups.

That is bullshit, no offense. I think a group of humans(Respectively, a warrrior, a mage, a elementalist, and a archer), could totally fight and even possibly win against a naga,dridder and even a mermaid. The fact that only the most powerful humans can go against a naga and win, kindaof says that giant preds are totally OP'd to the max. Yeah a single human fighting a giant naga by himself/herself is a suicide mission, the only option being escape after you have distracted the pred or if you have some cunning trap you can fall back on or one can use the environment against her in someway. I totally doubt even a not-that experienced group of humans/nekos will lose all it's members.

Stabs wrote:

More seriously, daily life in Felarya doesn't consist of those things. Daily life consists of daily life, and some people will have more interesting and active lives than others. Not everyone is going to star a Die Hard movie everyday: there's butchers, foragers, and people who just find a safe place and hide.

All bets are off as to whose story will be worth following of course though.

I didn't mean everthing I said and did not say will happen every day. With the exception of people dying, and death-these happen usually without us knowing it-at least 1 thing that I said will happen to a typical man who is outside the walls of any safe settlement. Even the settlements arent entirely safe, Parts of Negav and other places being a testimony to that.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

I think a real opportunity for you is to write about the the people who don't encounter giants or who manage to slip past them relatively unscathed.

A very good story in my book has a few battles, some sneaking around, One Epic battle, suspense, mystery, some drama, a mix of comedy and lewdness, a good storyline, lots of traveling, and a main group of characters, not just a duo. It also has to have some main objective of some sort that will take a long time to achieve with plenty of side objectives to make the story more interesting. For example, a group of humans/nekos/inus are given a quest or mission that requires them to do something half way across felarya or they are given a task to find someone who was last seen 10 or so years. This type of story goes well with a Around the World-Survivalist theme of some sort.

Oh sure, if they can slip past them then thats fine as well. But sometimes they cant and they must drive off(not always kill) whatever is in their way.

rcs619 wrote:

Once again, it depends. People live their entire lives in Negav without ever seeing a pred, and some people in Chiotia are probably never going to meet one personally.

As for the rest...ehh, I think you've got an overly romanticized view on combat and predation. Most things in Felarya, be they giant hybrid pred, giant feral animal, or carnivorous plant...or even something as simple as a venomous snake or insect...they aren't going to lumber out and set the stage for an epic battle. They are going to strike quickly, violently, and the whole thing is going to be decided one way or another within the first minute or two. Think of it this way, if a tiger attacked you, what would happen? You'd either get caught completely unprepared and die or get seriously maimed, you'd manage to get to your weapon and kill it before it kills you, or you would try and hide/get out of reach.

Occasionally, yes, you can have an "epic battle". I wrote a story about an Isolon Fist squad engaging a naga, but those kinds of things are not that common, and even then, the Isolon Fist didn't engage until they basically had a total advantage.

That's the way real fighting works. When you're fighting for your life you get every advantage possible, you don't break out complex kung-fu, you kick the other guy in the balls and hit him while he's down. Sometimes you can have a complex kung-fu fight...but its pretty rare.

I never said a epic battle had to be a long-drawn out battle it also could be a relatively short battle.

There can also be epic chases, sneaking around battles that can be avoided, and sneaking in general just so there is no monotonous battle after battle theme.
A good example for a epic chase would consist of a wounded group of men/women/female neko/male neko desperately fleeing a stubborn giant predator. Their main objective being to get to a nearby settlement. At the same time they have to deal with other beasts and plants trying to eat them. The giant predator (who is probably a naga) will also appear almost at random every other day, and will try to eat the group. The people not wounded and/or wounded would have to somehow escape while fending her off by using some cunning means. The mood of the group will be most certainly fear and the feeling of frustration everytime the Giant pred finds them. Eventually in their wounded and frustrated state, they might stop running and actually face the giant predator in a final battle. Ultimately, this will probably be a side objective or at least a semi-important objective, especially if the party took something from the Predator, in a long story.
It is needless to say that only a cunning and/or experienced leader with a multi-classed group would be able to survive this predicament without losing all or half of its party.

....Sometimes I think I put to much faith in a general fanfiction story. Though, thoughts like these are usually banished almost immediatedly.

BlackAion wrote:

That is bullshit, no offense. I think a group of humans(Respectively, a warrrior, a mage, a elementalist, and a archer), could totally fight and even possibly win against a naga,dridder and even a mermaid. The fact that only the most powerful humans can go against a naga and win, kindaof says that giant preds are totally OP'd to the max.

That's not how we do things here, BlackAion. Overpowered might mean what you say in a role-playing game, but there's seldom any interactive experience based off Felarya. In any other media, an overpowered character means one that kills off the audience's interest by way of being impossible to challenge. It's ironic that a "final boss", as you've put it, can be overpowered.
Also, four warrior setups are uncommon around here. Felarya wasn't built around the idea of having 4-person groups fight everything and win in an epic adventure with the power of magic and sword. Felarya is more dangerous than that, and any 4-person group capable of fighting giant predators with only one man with melee weapons... well, it'd feel quite strange to most people.

BlackAion wrote:

A very good story in my book has a grocery list, not just a duo...

Yes, we got it, you don't like duos. No need to keep flogging a dead horse. On the other hand, a very good story in your book is an adventure, and stories aren't always about adventure. Maybe you can look for other stories, I'm sure there's adventures somewhere in the group that don't involve fighting duos with a giant predator.

BlackAion wrote:

....Sometimes I think I put to much faith in a general fanfiction story. Though, thoughts like these are usually banished almost immediatedly.

It's not that you put too much faith. Your expectations aren't high- they're just entirely your own. I'd advise writing your own story, if you really know what you want.

I have four predators. Giant ones. All of them are main characters. All of them have very different views of the world and it isn't all about killing and eating. There's more in their lives than hunting humans.

In fact, I can give you this: one of my characters is a giant dridder named Nanda. As far as it goes, all the stories featuring her are about meeting new people and exploring other places in this world. It's an alternative to seeing predators hunt and eating. Also, even in the usual "eat someone" stories, you can add some variety.

The concept of boss fights isn't my forte. For a game, it's good, but for literature, even for epic fantasy, unless it's very well justified, I don't get it. About Felarya in this aspect, I don't remember many stories with that applied, yet I prefer the ones where you can find more than vore in them. In fact, finding humans doesn't happen that often, even if stories might tend to say the opposite. There's this 'twenkie theory' out there that could explain things better, even if it isn't canon.

About the duo thing, back to Nanda... the first time she appeared, she found and briefly teamed up with a half-elf ranger. Guess who ended badly injured after a fight with a golem that suddenly appeared in Miragia Forest? The giant dridder. Anyway, both were pretty much screwed - seriously, the half-elf would die anyway - if it wasn't for some Deus Ex Machina well planted there.

The fact you have a predator in a duo doesn't make them the big guys who can take anything. It also depends on the writer's point of view how things will be portrayed. And I don't mind duos as long as they have some basis to stand on. You can also go for a good group which different members in it, yet very large numbers tend to make things more difficult (five or six would be my limit, if you ask me). Anyway, I've never seen Felarya as some RPG setting like The Forgotten Realms, but more like a place full of beautiful and dangerous locations. You can be unlucky and find some of the dangers inhabiting it - and it isn't always a giant pred, there are many more dangerous things that don't look like attractive men or women glued to some animal - or you can enjoy the wonderful landscape.

Anyway, it all depends on the writer. Some stories are good, some are bad, but that happens even in the best communities. Not all stories are adventures, yet adventures aren't banished. Write whatever you want. I do that and I'm happy with what I do - yet I always look forward to improving.

Stabs wrote:

BlackAion wrote:

That is bullshit, no offense. I think a group of humans(Respectively, a warrior, a mage, a elementalist, and a archer), could totally fight and even possibly win against a naga,dridder and even a mermaid. The fact that only the most powerful humans can go against a naga and win, kindaof says that giant preds are totally OP'd to the max.

That's not how we do things here, BlackAion. Overpowered might mean what you say in a role-playing game, but there's seldom any interactive experience based off Felarya. In any other media, an overpowered character means one that kills off the audience's interest by way of being impossible to challenge. It's ironic that a "final boss", as you've put it, can be overpowered.
Also, four warrior setups are uncommon around here. Felarya wasn't built around the idea of having 4-person groups fight everything and win in an epic adventure with the power of magic and sword. Felarya is more dangerous than that, and any 4-person group capable of fighting giant predators with only one man with melee weapons... well, it'd feel quite strange to most people.

One: I did not say final boss, I said Epic. A Epic Boss isn't always overpowered, it just has to be challenging enough to cause some threat.

Two: I meant to say a multi-classed group of humans with some mages, some warriors, some elementalists, and some archers could possibly win against a giant predator. Also I see no reason why a 4-person group cant fight atleast one or two nagas(not at the same time mind you). A 4-person group would rely more on smarts than on brute strength or strength in numbers.

Stabs wrote:

Yes, we got it, you don't like duos. No need to keep flogging a dead horse. On the other hand, a very good story in your book is an adventure, and stories aren't always about adventure. Maybe you can look for other stories, I'm sure there's adventures somewhere in the group that don't involve fighting duos with a giant predator.

I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway. When it comes to things like these, I tend to become a critic...of sorts. It's probably because I read to many fantasy adventure books.

After I joined MGU a year back, I read a lot of daily life stories. After a time I got somewhat disinterested with it. Now, I tend to look for Adventure and/or Survival themed stories and not the Daily Life themed story or the Get Caught and Raped themed story or in this case the Get Caught and Eaten theme story.

Ironically I dont mind the human/demi-human duo or the demi-human main character stories there at all.

Stabs wrote:

It's not that you put too much faith. Your expectations aren't high- they're just entirely your own. I'd advise writing your own story, if you really know what you want.

Actually my expectations were somewhat high. After I absorbed all the information from the Felarya Wiki, I totally thought that the setting would contribute to some great stories-both daily life and adventure themed stories. Despite the good story making information, my creative streak did not come and, I knew in my head that I could never make a half-decent story with a giant pred as the main character even with the creative streak.(This is probably helped by the fact that most of them are more or less immoral when it comes to eating humans)

Feadraug wrote:

I have four predators. Giant ones. All of them are main characters. All of them have very different views of the world and it isn't all about killing and eating. There's more in their lives than hunting humans.

In fact, I can give you this: one of my characters is a giant dridder named Nanda. As far as it goes, all the stories featuring her are about meeting new people and exploring other places in this world. It's an alternative to seeing predators hunt and eating. Also, even in the usual "eat someone" stories, you can add some variety.

The concept of boss fights isn't my forte. For a game, it's good, but for literature, even for epic fantasy, unless it's very well justified, I don't get it. About Felarya in this aspect, I don't remember many stories with that applied, yet I prefer the ones where you can find more than vore in them. In fact, finding humans doesn't happen that often, even if stories might tend to say the opposite. There's this 'twenkie theory' out there that could explain things better, even if it isn't canon.

About the duo thing, back to Nanda... the first time she appeared, she found and briefly teamed up with a half-elf ranger. Guess who ended badly injured after a fight with a golem that suddenly appeared in Miragia Forest? The giant dridder. Anyway, both were pretty much screwed - seriously, the half-elf would die anyway - if it wasn't for some Deus Ex Machina well planted there.

The fact you have a predator in a duo doesn't make them the big guys who can take anything. It also depends on the writer's point of view how things will be portrayed. And I don't mind duos as long as they have some basis to stand on. You can also go for a good group which different members in it, yet very large numbers tend to make things more difficult (five or six would be my limit, if you ask me). Anyway, I've never seen Felarya as some RPG setting like The Forgotten Realms, but more like a place full of beautiful and dangerous locations. You can be unlucky and find some of the dangers inhabiting it - and it isn't always a giant pred, there are many more dangerous things that don't look like attractive men or women glued to some animal - or you can enjoy the wonderful landscape.

Anyway, it all depends on the writer. Some stories are good, some are bad, but that happens even in the best communities. Not all stories are adventures, yet adventures aren't banished. Write whatever you want. I do that and I'm happy with what I do - yet I always look forward to improving.

(pointing) I like this one.

Just throwing my two cents in:

The way I see it and the way I often see it done is that Felarya, assuming giant preds are "bosses", is not a place for boss fights. It's a place where your priority is avoiding boss fights because 99.99% of the time you're going to lose. Fortunately, they're nowhere near as common as most Felaryan stories make them out to be. Unfortunately, there's a bunch of other stuff, bestial preds like tonorions and kensha beasts, that ARE pretty common and, while not AS dangerous as nigh-unstoppable/inescapable sentient hybrid preds, are still enough of a threat that the four-man raid-party is not really viable here, just by viture of the fact that this is a world where, in some places, even the tree want your blood and in others you've got packs of six-legged wolf-beasts the size of monster trucks running around. This isn't World of Warcraft or God of War, it's a setting where a big draw is the fact that you could horribly die at any moment and your best chance is your wits, skills, and reflexes and the wits, skills, and reflexes of the people around you.

Basically: Epic five-man raid taking on the Fairy Kingdom = Five dead men.

You don't fight a giant naga unless you have every advantage you possibly can AND the best skills, equipment, and help for the job you possibly can. That's not where the drama lies. The drama lies in trying to avoid the naga, and then out-witting and escaping it if you DO by chance encounter it.

That's how it is to me, anyway. Feel free to call everything I just said bullshit, if it please you

zersergathant wrote:

Just throwing my two cents in:

The way I see it and the way I often see it done is that Felarya, assuming giant preds are "bosses", is not a place for boss fights. It's a place where your priority is avoiding boss fights because 99.99% of the time you're going to lose. Fortunately, they're nowhere near as common as most Felaryan stories make them out to be. Unfortunately, there's a bunch of other stuff, bestial preds like tonorions and kensha beasts, that ARE pretty common and, while not AS dangerous as nigh-unstoppable/inescapable sentient hybrid preds, are still enough of a threat that the four-man raid-party is not really viable here, just by viture of the fact that this is a world where, in some places, even the tree want your blood and in others you've got packs of six-legged wolf-beasts the size of monster trucks running around. This isn't World of Warcraft or God of War, it's a setting where a big draw is the fact that you could horribly die at any moment and your best chance is your wits, skills, and reflexes and the wits, skills, and reflexes of the people around you.

Basically: Epic five-man raid taking on the Fairy Kingdom = Five dead men.

You don't fight a giant naga unless you have every advantage you possibly can AND the best skills, equipment, and help for the job you possibly can. That's not where the drama lies. The drama lies in trying to avoid the naga, and then out-witting and escaping it if you DO by chance encounter it.

That's how it is to me, anyway. Feel free to call everything I just said bullshit, if it please you

(pointing again)I like this one too

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That is bullshit, no offense. I think a group of humans(Respectively, a warrrior, a mage, a elementalist, and a archer), could totally fight and even possibly win against a naga,dridder and even a mermaid. The fact that only the most powerful humans can go against a naga and win, kindaof says that giant preds are totally OP'd to the max.

They're giant people standing well over 100 feet tall, weigh well over 50 tons (with things like nagas, dridders and mermaids being even heavier) and can WALK at well over 40 miles per hour. Most have enhanced senses of some kind, and some can even use magic. Giant hybrids are very daunting foes. It isn't like fighting a bear, its like fighting something larger than the largest animal to ever live on Earth (Blue Whales only get up to 90-100 feet) that is also intelligent and very quick.

- A warrior: He would be useless. Sure, he could probably prick the pred's fingers, but if you get into melee range with a pred and you aren't a battlemage and/or using some kind of super-enchanted weapon, it is suicide. You're going to get crushed or picked up to a height that would be fatal to drop from.

- A mage/elementalist: Once again, you'd need to be super-strong to even be able to hurt a pred. They're just so big and tough that spells designed to fight humans and large animals are just too small. Its like shooting a tiger with a BB gun.

- Archer: Just as useless as the warrior. Arrows probably lack the penetrating power to even break a pred's skin, and even if they do, they aren't going deep enough to do real damage. Once again, super-enchanted weapons are your only option there.

- Guns: Pistols are useless, assault rifles just sting slightly, belt-fed machineguns sting quite a bit, but are not lethal. You don't get into lethal territory until you start getting into .50cal weaponry, which tends to be mounted or very heavy. Anti-armor/anti-vehicle weapons are your best shot, really. Rockets are going to seriously maim, or even kill in a single hit.

Predators ARE very tough. They have no armor and usually nothing more than simple weapons, their own bodies or whatever they can pick up, but their size gives them a huge amount of speed, power and toughness. The only humans who can really go toe-to-toe with a pred and not be absolutely useless are very powerful, very well-trained mages (such as the battlemages of the Isolon Fist), or humans armed with military-grade weaponry (the Delurans, the Miritans, the soldiers of the Isolon Fist and so on). Taking on a naga is just not even within the realm of possibility of the average group of humans. ...and you shouldn't ever plan to take on a pred. They aren't THAT common, and honestly, the regular wildlife and carnivorous plants are much bigger threats.

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you have some cunning trap you can fall back on or one can use the environment against her

Explain to me how a group of humans out in the jungle with only what they can carry could ever build a trap large enough to seriously hinder or hurt a 120ft tall, 300 ton naga? Traps imply that you know where the target is beforehand. Why not just go around and avoid the pred if you know where it is?

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Also I see no reason why a 4-person group cant fight atleast one or two nagas(not at the same time mind you). A 4-person group would rely more on smarts than on brute strength or strength in numbers

Unless these 4 people are all armed with bazookas, they probably won't have much of a chance. It is partially about numbers, yes. But it is also about weapons and abilities. Look at the Isolon Fist. The standard squad consists of two battlemages, some of the most powerful mages in Negav, recruited specifically to fight, accompanied by eight conventional soldiers, usually armed with light machineguns and rockets. Their weapons and armor are also usually covered in various enchantments to help improve performance. Even when going after a pred, victory isn't guaranteed. Fights, especially against something so big and fast, are unpredictable. Even the best laid plans can go awry.

rcs619 wrote:

- A warrior: He would be useless. Sure, he could probably prick the pred's fingers, but if you get into melee range with a pred and you aren't a battlemage and/or using some kind of super-enchanted weapon, it is suicide. You're going to get crushed or picked up to a height that would be fatal to drop from.

It doesn't have to be a super-enchanted sword, it could be something like a Greatsword/Eversharp blade or a Treerunner axe and even a Defershir. Like I said before a 4-man multiclassed group will have to rely on smarts. If he manages to not get grabbed after a Giant Pred lunges for him, he could stab the hand leaving a small, but deep wound. He can also jump onto the hand, let the reflex send him up into the air so he can cut her/his face or even jab his sword in to her and let momentum do the rest.Enough of these will cause a predator to retreat out of pain and frustration. Furthermore, if the brain is anything like any other creature, a instant death spot lies just below the skull. Even a prick to that part of the brain will cause death. Although, he would have to somehow climb her/him to get to that spot(probably by doing it God of War style) or more realistically jump down on her head from somewhere high up sometime during the fight.

rcs619 wrote:

- A mage/elementalist: Once again, you'd need to be super-strong to even be able to hurt a pred. They're just so big and tough that spells designed to fight humans and large animals are just too small. Its like shooting a tiger with a BB gun.

You don't have to be super-strong, you just have to be competent. At best, one BB gun shot will all but annoy a tiger, but if one manages to shoot several BB gun shots without dying the tiger will eventually forsake the fight because it wont feel like getting hit anymore. The same concept more or less applies with Giant preds. A constant barrage of fireballs or lightning strikes will cause some significant damage.

rcs619 wrote:

- Archer: Just as useless as the warrior. Arrows probably lack the penetrating power to even break a pred's skin, and even if they do, they aren't going deep enough to do real damage. Once again, super-enchanted weapons are your only option there.

Your are right, a Archer is useless if he/she does not take cover or move a safe distance away or does not move to high ground or unless he/she has a couple short swords or Treerunner axes. Your are right, unless a archer has a enchanted longbow with decent accuracy, he is screwed. That being said, a unenchanted archer with decent accuracy can at least try to hit the eye of the Giant Predator. In any battle with non-hybrid creatures, he/she can do a lot more.

rcs619 wrote:

- Guns: Pistols are useless, assault rifles just sting slightly, belt-fed machineguns sting quite a bit, but are not lethal. You don't get into lethal territory until you start getting into .50cal weaponry, which tends to be mounted or very heavy. Anti-armor/anti-vehicle weapons are your best shot, really. Rockets are going to seriously maim, or even kill in a single hit.

Same with the archer, except the gunner has a 0-VM Hot Rifle or a powerful sniper rifle. Also, Grenade Launchers work as well as any rocket or RPG, plus they are easier to carry.

Also, as I said before the group must have a good sense of teamwork or they're screwed. You add all of this together and a pred will probably leave in frustration or at least think that it is not worth it.

BlackAion wrote:

you have some cunning trap you can fall back on or one can use the environment against her

rcs619 wrote:

Explain to me how a group of humans out in the jungle with only what they can carry could ever build a trap large enough to seriously hinder or hurt a 120ft tall, 300 ton naga? Traps imply that you know where the target is beforehand. Why not just go around and avoid the pred if you know where it is?

One:You didnt seem to read or understand what I said...no offense intended.

Two:Like I said before if you can try to get around it then that's fine, but sometimes you cant and a fight is impossible to avoid.

Three: It doesnt have to be that huge of a trap it just has to be something that distracts or hinders the Giant predators progress long enough to escape or counterattack.

BlackAion wrote:

Also I see no reason why a 4-person group cant fight atleast one or two nagas(not at the same time mind you). A 4-person group would rely more on smarts than on brute strength or strength in numbers

rcs619 wrote:

Unless these 4 people are all armed with bazookas, they probably won't have much of a chance. It is partially about smarts(Tell me if this was intended or not and I'll change it) , yes. But it is also about weapons and abilities. Look at the Isolon Fist. The standard squad consists of two battlemages, some of the most powerful mages in Negav, recruited specifically to fight, accompanied by eight conventional soldiers, usually armed with light machineguns and rockets. Their weapons and armor are also usually covered in various enchantments to help improve performance. Even when going after a pred, victory isn't guaranteed. Fights, especially against something so big and fast, are unpredictable. Even the best laid plans can go awry.

The last eight sentences are true enough. For the rest of it... I dont need to say what I already said in my previous writings in this post.

Blackaion, you appear to be under the assumption that Shōnen anime physics applies to Felarya. It doesn’t. Jumping onto a predator’s hand or arm as they lunge isn’t possible. Assuming that a human could jump high enough and accurately enough while carrying all their equipment, jumping onto the moving arm of a giant isn’t going to allow for any immediate actions. It’ll be like jumping onto a moving train from the ground, except that the likelihood of being thrown off is much higher because there's nothing to grip.
A greatsword isn’t something that allows for quick movements. It’s powerful but slow. It requires a strong man to wield it. Problem is, greatsword wielders tend to be heavy from all their muscle mass. That means they can’t land lightly, they’re not going to able to land on a predator’s arm and keep their balance. They sure won’t be able to stay in control if they’re flung upwards by some mysterious reflex. That said, I doubt that a greatsword would be able to penetrate the muscle.

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You don't have to be super-strong, you just have to be competent. At best, one BB gun shot will all but annoy a tiger, but if one manages to shoot several BB gun shots without dying the tiger will eventually forsake the fight because it wont feel like getting hit anymore. The same concept more or less applies with Giant preds.

This is nothing new. This was discussed and established on the forum years ago.

Really, your whole post shows a lack of understanding and research on a number of things.

For example; Stabbing with a greatsword is not possible. The blade is too long. Lunges are possible to achieve an attack with the tip, but nobody bar a superman could perform a lunge after dodging a giant predator's grab attempt. If they miss, they'll have to recover their balance. If they hit and the sword sticks in like a pin, then they have to abandon their weapon.

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If he manages to not get grabbed after a Giant Pred lunges for him, he could stab the hand leaving a small, but deep wound

It would be like getting jabbed with a needle. It isn't going to do anything but annoy the pred, and maybe draw a couple drops of blood.

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He can also jump onto the hand, let the reflex send him up

...You're making a very big assumption that the sword would not get ripped free from his hands by the pred jumping in pain. Animals jerk when they are pricked, the warrior most likely isn't going to have time to pull out his sword.

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into the air so he can cut her/his face or even jab his sword in to her and let momentum do the rest

Even laying down, a pred's face is going to be at least 20 feet in the air. This warrior would die on the return trip. If he jabs it into the pred's face (which is probably the only way to not die from the fall), he's as good as caught, because he's stuck in mid-air ON the pred.

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Enough of these will cause a predator to retreat out of pain and frustration

Why would the pred retreat after its already grabbed the thing bothering it? Melee range against a pred for a non-battlemage is suicide, and there's just no way around it. No amount of anime-esque jumping attacks are going to change that. Could a battlemage potentially do what you said? Maybe, yes, with lots of enchantments or various magical buffs, yeah. But a regular guy, out in the jungle? Definitely not.

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(probably by doing it God of War style)

Real people can't climb giant creatures while they are writhing in pain. Kratos is a videogame character and a half-god, armed with magical god weapons. He isn't someone you should be basing the performance of an average person off of.

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At best, one BB gun shot will all but annoy a tiger, but if one manages to shoot several BB gun shots without dying the tiger will eventually forsake the fight because it wont feel like getting hit anymore. The same concept more or less applies with Giant preds. A constant barrage of fireballs or lightning strikes will cause some significant damage.

Have you ever seen a tiger? If you shot it with a pistol, maybe, but a BB gun is going to do nothing. It's just going to keep coming and end the threat instead of running away from it. You need a certain amount of force to drive off a predatory animal. Spells designed to hurt humans or human-sized animals, are just not powerful enough to do anything to a pred. Furthermore, how are one or two mages going to keep up a constant barrage? Another disadvantage of magic is that it is not very subtle. What's to keep the pred from just chucking a rock at them to quiet them? Or from moving over and taking care of them?

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Same with the archer, except the gunner has a 0-VM Hot Rifle or a powerful sniper rifle. Also, Grenade Launchers work as well as any rocket or RPG, plus they are easier to carry.

Umm... Grenades have a totally different role than rockets. They are designed primarily for anti-personnel work and have roughly zero penetrating power. Can a grenade kill a car? Sure, but it is absolutely useless versus anything with any kind of armor. Grenades do damage through shrapnel, which is basically useless against a pred since the shrapnel pieces are too small. Rockets, let's take an RPG since you mentioned it, are designed to be anti-armor/anti-vehicle weapons. They are designed to pierce armor through the use of high-explosives and/or a shaped charge. They would actually work against a pred. They are a totally different type of weapon system than grenades.

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Three: It doesnt have to be that huge of a trap it just has to be something that distracts or hinders the Giant predators progress long enough to escape or counterattack.

Do you realize how huge predators are? How huge a trap would need to be to affect them. Like I said, explain to me how 4 guys would build such a trap, and what kind of trap it would be.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Blackaion, you appear to be under the assumption that Shōnen anime physics applies to Felarya. It doesn’t. Jumping onto a predator’s hand or arm as they lunge isn’t possible. Assuming that a human could jump high enough and accurately enough while carrying all their equipment, jumping onto the moving arm of a giant isn’t going to allow for any immediate actions. It’ll be like jumping onto a moving train from the ground, except that the likelihood of being thrown off is much higher because there's nothing to grip.
A greatsword isn’t something that allows for quick movements. It’s powerful but slow. It requires a strong man to wield it. Problem is, greatsword wielders tend to be heavy from all their muscle mass. That means they can’t land lightly, they’re not going to able to land on a predator’s arm and keep their balance. They sure won’t be able to stay in control if they’re flung upwards by some mysterious reflex. That said, I doubt that a greatsword would be able to penetrate the muscle.

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You don't have to be super-strong, you just have to be competent. At best, one BB gun shot will all but annoy a tiger, but if one manages to shoot several BB gun shots without dying the tiger will eventually forsake the fight because it wont feel like getting hit anymore. The same concept more or less applies with Giant preds.

This is nothing new. This was discussed and established on the forum years ago.

Really, your whole post shows a lack of understanding and research on a number of things.

For example; Stabbing with a greatsword is not possible. The blade is too long. Lunges are possible to achieve an attack with the tip, but nobody bar a superman could perform a lunge after dodging a giant predator's grab attempt. If they miss, they'll have to recover their balance. If they hit and the sword sticks in like a pin, then they have to abandon their weapon.

Most of what is said is true except for a few parts.

One:A greatsword should be able to penetrate the muscle or blades of any type wouldn't be in the wiki.
Two:For the record, I read the all of the felaryan wiki twice before I even joined this forum. Saying indirectly that I dont know what I'm talking about is not only false, but frustrating as well.

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One:A greatsword should be able to penetrate the muscle

Sorry, poor wording on my part. I meant that a greatsword wouldn't be able to fully penetrate the muscle.

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or blades of any type wouldn't be in the wiki.

Sure they would be. The wiki isn't a handbook on how to beat predators. Blades are useful for many things.

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Two:For the record, I read the all of the felaryan wiki twice before I even joined this forum. Saying indirectly that I dont know what I'm talking about is not only false, but frustrating as well.

And yet you are/were under the assumption that Shōnen "physics" are applicable to Felarya. The wiki doesn't give context to everything it gives information on. It also doesn't tell you everything you need to know.

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One:A greatsword should be able to penetrate the muscle or blades of any type wouldn't be in the wiki.

They would be. The fact is, humans taking on a giant hybrid is a pretty rare thing. It's also something that is majorly stacked in the pred's favor, due to their speed, size, strength, senses, decades of survival experience and instincts, and possible magical skill. Hell, I had to tone down my ideas to revamp the Isolon Fist because Karbo felt they needed to still have a challenge when fighting preds, even with their powerful mages, offworld guns and various other enchanted/magi-tech weapons.

Just a few points to keep in mind with pred-fighting:

1: The only weapons that really work very well are military-grade weapons, very powerful enchanted/magi-tech weapons, or extremely powerful magic. Things like swords, spears, and even hunting rifles really aren't much good for anything other than a mild annoyance.

2: Military-grade weapons are not commonplace. The only people that are able to get easy access to them are offworld military groups who bring them with them, and the Isolon Fist, since the Magiocrats are able to buy and import them from offworld (and then reverse-engineer/enchant then to make them better). I'm sure there's some military-grade stuff floating around, but its going to be rare, and probably expensive to get your hands on.

3: The level of magical skill found in the battlemages of the Isolon Fist, and even the Magiocrats themselves (some of which are former Isolon Fist) is not that common. Its natural skill that has been honed by years, to decades, of training and practice. Shooting a baseball-sized fireball probably isn't tough, but shooting a 20ft wide, explosive fireball that could actually affect a pred...that is beyond the average mage.

4: Honestly, giant hybrids are pretty low on the list of big threats to humans in Felarya. There's other humans (bandits, opportunists), dangerous wildlife (snakes, jungle cats, and wierder things), dangerous giant wildlife (kensha beasts, tonorions and so on), and many species of carnivorous plants. The weapons and gear needed to deal with them is not nearly as restrictive as what's needed for giant hybrids. It makes more sense to prepare for those kinds of threats, and set out to avoid/hide from giant hybrids if you are unlucky enough to come across one.

BlackAion wrote:

(probably by doing it God of War style)

This was a joke, don't waste your time on it...no offense intended.

BlackAion wrote:

Three: It doesnt have to be that huge of a trap it just has to be something that distracts or hinders the Giant predators progress long enough to escape or counterattack.

rcs619 wrote:

Do you realize how huge predators are? How huge a trap would need to be to affect them. Like I said, explain to me how 4 guys would build such a trap, and what kind of trap it would be.

Think man!!! Think!!! It does not have to be built. It can be something like a powerful drug that messes with his/her head or two hidden members of the group can manage throw pepper in her eyes or some kind of hypnosis spell that only activates when she gets near or some sort of widespread trap spell that doesnt take long to set up or they can use the environment meaning infuriating a animal so it will charge a giant pred or something like that. A decent mage could use a flamethrower spell to light up the forest around them to slow it down.

rcs619 wrote:

Shooting a baseball-sized fireball probably isn't tough, but shooting a 20ft wide, explosive fireball that could actually affect a pred...that is beyond the average mage.

I never said average, I said decent and competent. Decent in other words means respectable. A respectable mage would be able to at least throw a 3 foot fireball in one hand and a 5 foot fireball in two hands. It really doesnt matter how big you are if something small(not really small) that is also really hot touches you even in the slightest will cause a decent amount of pain. I learnt that the hard way...

That being said, (sigh) I do admit that a warrior without any enchantments who is not a battlemage wouldnt be able do much except maybe try to get the giant preds wrist artery, but I doubt that.

Anyway, At this point I'm not trying to prove that a warrior with few or no enchantments, a average mage who does not know many spells, a average elementalist, a average archer with no enchantments can possibly win against a Giant Predator. No. Im trying to prove that a decent warrior or battlemage with a good amount of enchantments on his armor and a decently elementally enchanted sword, a respectable mage with a variety of spells, a elementalist who is decently skilled, a accurate archer with a enchanted bow and arrows with a strong elementally enchanted short sword or treerunner axe plus their individual abilities and affinities can possibly win against a giant predator.

rcs619 wrote:

Honestly, giant hybrids are pretty low on the list of big threats to humans in Felarya. There's other humans (bandits, opportunists), dangerous wildlife (snakes, jungle cats, and wierder things), dangerous giant wildlife (kensha beasts, tonorions and so on), and many species of carnivorous plants. The weapons and gear needed to deal with them is not nearly as restrictive as what's needed for giant hybrids. It makes more sense to prepare for those kinds of threats, and set out to avoid/hide from giant hybrids if you are unlucky enough to come across one.

Tell that to the faires.
But seriously, what you said is more or less what I said before: If you can avoid a Giant Pred then that's fine, but sometimes you cant avoid it.

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It can be something like a powerful drug that messes with his/her head

How would deliver a gallon or more of a drug into a predator's bloodstream? You would need some sort of rocket-harpoon syringe gun thing, which is a very complicated thing to design. There's also body mass to take into consideration. Dridders, mermaids and nagas have a lot more body mass than an elf or fairy, and would take much more of the drug to affect them.

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or two hidden members of the group can manage throw pepper in her eyes

...How are you going to get a giant barrel of pepper 20+ feet in the air? And then toss it into her eyes?

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r some kind of hypnosis spell that only activates when she gets near

Okay, using illusion magic is an option. Although, it would be much easier to mask yourself from the pred's view than try to influence the pred with the spell.

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some sort of widespread trap spell that doesnt take long to set up

Vague and an oxymoron

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or they can use the environment meaning infuriating a animal so it will charge a giant pred or something like that.

So you're going to go off into a dangerous forest, to find another dangerous animal to try and trick into attacking the giant hybrid who's location you already know? That is pretty overcomplicated and extremely situational. Not everyone can count on having a pack of Kensha Beasts within walking distance of a giant pred.

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No. Im trying to prove that a decent warrior or battlemage with a good amount of enchantments on his armor and a decently elementally enchanted sword, a respectable mage with a variety of spells, a elementalist who is decently skilled, a accurate archer with a enchanted bow and arrows with a strong elementally enchanted short sword or treerunner axe plus their individual abilities and affinities can possibly win against a giant predator.

So basically a group of people equipped with items most people couldn't afford, and armed with magical abilities most people don't have the skill or training to use?

rc2619 wrote:

How would deliver a gallon or more of a drug into a predator's bloodstream? You would need some sort of rocket-harpoon syringe gun thing, which is a very complicated thing to design. There's also body mass to take into consideration. Dridders, mermaids and nagas have a lot more body mass than an elf or fairy, and would take much more of the drug to affect them.

When I meant a powerful drug I meant a drug so powerful that only a small amount needs to be sniffed or swallowed . And when I mean small amount for Giant preds, I mean a liter or so of said powerful drug. This will most likely go with personal skills.

rcs619 wrote:

...How are you going to get a giant barrel of pepper 20+ feet in the air? And then toss it into her eyes?

When I said toss it into her eyes, I literally meant hide high up in a tree, then when she passes by throw a pepper bomb directly into her eye.

rcs619 wrote:

Okay, using illusion magic is an option. Although, it would be much easier to mask yourself from the pred's view than try to influence the pred with the spell.

rcs619 wrote:

Vague and an oxymoron

I wanted you to actually sit down and think about that one, but you'll even consider it.

rcs619 wrote:

So you're going to go off into a dangerous forest, to find another dangerous animal to try and trick into attacking the giant hybrid who's location you already know? That is pretty overcomplicated and extremely situational. Not everyone can count on having a pack of Kensha Beasts within walking distance of a giant pred.

That sir is true enough. This act relies a lot on solid luck, and the stupidity of the animal.

rcs619 wrote:

So basically a group of people equipped with items most people couldn't afford, and armed with magical abilities most people don't have the skill or training to use?

(sigh) Yes, basically a non-superpowered group of people equipped with items most people couldn't afford, and armed with magical abilities most people don't have the skill or training to use can possibly win against a Giant Pred.

BlackAion wrote:

When I meant a powerful drug I meant a drug so powerful that only a small amount needs to be sniffed or swallowed . And when I mean small amount for Giant preds, I mean a liter or so of said powerful drug. This will most likely go with personal skills.

You do realize any drug that'll affect a predator THAT strongly with such a small amount would be absolutely lethal to a man or neko? Even the fumes would do them in.

Greyman wrote:

BlackAion wrote:

When I meant a powerful drug I meant a drug so powerful that only a small amount needs to be sniffed or swallowed . And when I mean small amount for Giant preds, I mean a liter or so of said powerful drug. This will most likely go with personal skills.

You do realize any drug that'll affect a predator THAT strongly with such a small amount would be absolutely lethal to a man or neko? Even the fumes would do them in.

When I meant powerful drug, I meant a powerful drug that induces memory-loss or gets her high or causes her to go to sleep or causes some sort of hypnosis trance and is also non-lethal unless to much is swallowed.

Furthermore, you exaggerate with the fumes...no offense.