Trade routes, paths, etc.

Okay, I think I've worked up a good solution for a convoy defense.

There is a device called a "Cloaker" from the anime Crusher Joe OAV "The Ultimate Weapon: ASH". It's about the size of a basketball and it flies. It seeks out living things - especially humans - and attaches themselves to the limbs or arms, and goes boom. They come from roving land-based mother ships that hide underground, churning rocks into Cloakers (in other words, they replicate endlessly).

Enhance their explosive yield, tune them to seek out Felaryan predators, and slather each one in anti-magic.

They should be able to intercept things under the ground, in the sky, and even dig in deep during a horrendous storm.

When a Great Pred comes for your convoy... surprise. A dozen of them latch onto a Giant Naga's head and kaboom. Even Vivian casts her dark magic and watches it fizzle: she's now facing swarms of explosive drones that never stop coming and she cannot destroy. A storm sprite's magic fizzles; she can't short circuit them. Harpies drop like flies.

Raveolution wrote:

Okay, I think I've worked up a good solution for a convoy defense.

There is a device called a "Cloaker" from the anime Crusher Joe OAV "The Ultimate Weapon: ASH". It's about the size of a basketball and it flies. It seeks out living things - especially humans - and attaches themselves to the limbs or arms, and goes boom. They come from roving land-based mother ships that hide underground, churning rocks into Cloakers (in other words, they replicate endlessly).

Enhance their explosive yield, tune them to seek out Felaryan predators, and slather each one in anti-magic.

They should be able to intercept things under the ground, in the sky, and even dig in deep during a horrendous storm.

When a Great Pred comes for your convoy... surprise. A dozen of them latch onto a Giant Naga's head and kaboom. Even Vivian casts her dark magic and watches it fizzle: she's now facing swarms of explosive drones that never stop coming and she cannot destroy. A storm sprite's magic fizzles; she can't short circuit them. Harpies drop like flies.

Sounds like a beautiful sight to see. Much better than my preference of nuking everything in the area (which ain't smart).

I am sorry but I must say I prefer to not have this sub-forum become yet another "best tactical offense against predators" type thread ^^;
It's still ok, just to make things clear.

Karbo wrote:

Also in the human/nekos forum, please don't create additional threads on how humans can defeat the rest of Felarya.. this is not the point of the species forum at all ^^;

vegeta002 wrote:

Sounds like a beautiful sight to see. Much better than my preference of nuking everything in the area (which ain't smart).

Nukes are inelegant. They also may not work against canopy fairies that are phased out. Plus they screw up the environment, etc.

Karbo wrote:

I am sorry but I must say I prefer to not have this sub-forum become yet another "best tactical offense against predators" type thread ^^;
It's still ok, just to make things clear.

Karbo wrote:

Also in the human/nekos forum, please don't create additional threads on how humans can defeat the rest of Felarya.. this is not the point of the species forum at all ^^;

Okie dokie!

Raveolution wrote:

vegeta002 wrote:

Sounds like a beautiful sight to see. Much better than my preference of nuking everything in the area (which ain't smart).

Nukes are inelegant. They also may not work against canopy fairies that are phased out. Plus they screw up the environment, etc.

I did say it wasn't smart, I just like nukes.

Like Karbo said two pages ago, discretion is key; it would be more cost-effective to outfit your convoy with stealth generators or transporting the goods in easily manageable quantities on something fast as TheQuantumMechanic suggested, than hiring a massive military escort or whatever. Unless the merchant is ridiculousely rich and isn't afraid throwing away large amounts of cash for pred-fodder.

BTW, I've just noticed the portal positioned between Negav and Drider Forest on the map. Where does that lead to?

most dimensional gates on felarya have more than one destination points

And they change frequently and unexpectedly, from what I understand.

... It's probably the fairies having fun.

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

... It's probably the fairies having fun.

i believe its more attributed to the general instability of the planet.... and also likely a function of Notys mere presence. though a skilled fairy could probably do so... i don't think the average has much in the way of dimensional magic.

observer88 wrote:

Like Karbo said two pages ago, discretion is key; it would be more cost-effective to outfit your convoy with stealth generators or transporting the goods in easily manageable quantities on something fast as TheQuantumMechanic suggested, than hiring a massive military escort or whatever. Unless the merchant is ridiculousely rich and isn't afraid throwing away large amounts of cash for pred-fodder.

BTW, I've just noticed the portal positioned between Negav and Drider Forest on the map. Where does that lead to?

Great Preds can sense prey, though. Stealth would be very hard to make work in Felarya.

Being able to cancel out magic around a convoy doesn't eliminate the threat of a Pred, but it keeps a lot of preds away.

Reducing the number of preds that can come after you is key to getting more convoys across safely.

Raveolution wrote:

Reducing the number of preds that can come after you is key to getting more convoys across safely.

It's more than difficult that you believe when you don't know the exact numbers of predators in an area and in general a convoy don't have enough firepower to do that. The problem an well-armed convoy will not only draw the attention of the predators but the others humans and in general they have a better equipment

The problem there is if you're focusing on Preds, you're likely going to be using anti-armor weaponry and be improperly equipped to deal with infantry.

Arming all your Caravan Guards with a Panzerfaust sounds great at first, until you realize said weapon is inefficient against the spread out Neko war band that ambushed you. Start arming them with SMG's instead to deal with Bandits? Watch them cause ineffective flesh wounds to most larger Predators.

Now, placing some sort of distortion device or an anti-divination spell on the Caravan is likely to help against Predator intrusion, but that still doesn't rule out blind luck / misfortune.

Raveolution wrote:

Great Preds can sense prey, though. Stealth would be very hard to make work in Felarya.

Not as hard as you think; I am not too fond of the idea of the "Predator Sense" at all, but since it's been stated to exist, there's not much to do other than take it into consideration. However, it can not possibly be an infallible, perfectly accurate 'mental radar' that unerringly directs a predator to prey regardless of how or where they hide. That is just not possible, for a number of reasons.

1) Concealment techniques are one of the most effective mechanisms within the predation cycle, for both predator and prey; Ambush predators rely on such techniques to catch food for themselves, as well as avoid their own predators. Their own predators; meaning that creatures that prey on Giant Nagas and other "Great Preds" also have this "Predator Sense", and if it was completely infallible and accurate, it would be impossible for the average Naga to survive into adulthood, unless raised within a large and well-armed society. A small village just wouldn't cut it.

2) In the natural predation cycle, generalized predators have a success rate of roughly 10%; meaning that nearly 90% of all their hunts end in failure, due to not being able to find prey, prey escaping, etc. That rate is going to be skewed a little bit more towards a predator's favor on Felarya, but not to the point that they're always going to find a human hiding in a clever spot; if that was the case, no Great Pred on Felarya would ever have to actually work for a meal, or worry about going hungry.

In the end, that removes a good deal of the element of danger from the equation for the Naga/Fairy/whatever- why risk traipsing about in the jungle and possibly lose their life, when they can just head straight for the nearest human, gobble him up, and then head straight back to the safety of the settlement? A giant Naga only requires 5 humans a day to survive; if they were capable of detecting them precisely at long range, locating them without fail, and consuming them in a matter of seconds, there would be much less of a danger factor (for them) involved in their hunts.

3) In most stories I've seen in Felarya, the "Pred Sense" is either downplayed, or rarely portrayed as more than a slight edge when it comes to hunting; Katrika certainly doesn't rely only upon it when she is hunting. Also, one of the best reasons for it not to be an omnscient mental radar is that if it were... there would be virtually no accidental face-to-face meetings between predator and prey.

It would be impossible for a predator to round a tree or hill, while a prey does the same, and wind up staring at one another over a distance... before the frantic chase scene begins. It just wouldn't happen, because the Dridder or whatever would always know the Human or Neko was there.

There are still more reasons, but by now, I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. The "Pred Sense" only really works as a vaguely defined concept; once you start going into it in depth, it just falls apart... or absolutely destroys a number of possible scenarios in a way that prevents them from ever occuring on Felarya, barring external mitigating factors.

Raveolution wrote:

Being able to cancel out magic around a convoy doesn't eliminate the threat of a Pred, but it keeps a lot of preds away.

It keeps some of the intelligent ones who are magically inclined or might otherwise even care about magic away. Preds with animalistic intelligence aren't going to care much; and throwing as much anti-magic around as you please is not going to matter one way or the other to Crisis.

Raveolution wrote:

Reducing the number of preds that can come after you is key to getting more convoys across safely.

Incorrect; people can and do make it from Point A to Point B in Felarya 'safely'. It might not happen all the time, but massive firepower is definitely not key to survival in Felarya. Just ask the Delurans.

On Felarya, using more firepower than you need to deter a threat will always be a bad strategy, and will get you killed every time barring dumb luck. The bigger a noise you make, the more attention you are going to draw; and I guarantee you, if you are carrying enough weapons and ammo to fight World War Felarya... you aren't going to have space left over for those supplies and trade goods you were planning to transport. It's just not feasible.

Intelligent Predators aren't dumb animals who only care about filling their stomachs; if a prey puts up a big enough struggle, they are probably going to go and find an easier meal. It's not like prey is scarce on Felarya. In addition, prey that makes a hell of a lot of noise may just draw other predators, or larger predators that might want to eat the Naga or Dridder. In that case, it's best just to move on and find someone who is less likely to draw undue attention from miles around.

So, you burn a whole bunch of ammo either killing or severely injuring and making a predator flee. Before your convoy even gets another mile, you wind up having to fight off another predator. And then another after that. It's a nearly endless chain, except that it can't continue forever because you don't have that much ammunition. Tell me now, how is standing your ground and fighting with guns ablaze the best solution again? While you're stuck in one position for the amount of time it takes to deal with one predator (which could be very quick, or very long, particularly if he or she knows serious defensive magic) you aren't going anywhere, and letting everything in Felarya for miles around know exactly where you are. They don't even need a "Pred Sense", because you're announcing your location at the top of your lungs to everyone within miles.

Overwhelming Force is only really a viable option for a general offensive tactic or mobile defensive tactic if you have an entire army, a supply chain or base nearby, and far more manpower/resources than the opposition. If not, it does not, and can not, work for offensive purposes.

For Static Defense/Area Occupation, though? Defending bases and such? Yeah, it works like a charm.

Also, now that I think about it, another problem with the "Shoot Everything to Hell" defense for a trade convoy...

The purpose of a trade convoy or trade route is to make money. The more guns and ammo you are carrying, the less the amount of supplies and trade goods you will be able to carry without drastically expanding the size of the caravan, which makes it more vulnerable sheerly because there is more of it to protect.

So now, you have a ridiculously huge caravan that requires far more time, effort, and manpower to guard... and your solution is to dump ridiculous amounts of firepower into everything you see that might possibly pose a threat to the caravan's safety. But hey, you made it to the city, and now your traders can sell their goods to the merchants.

The only problem is, the value of all that ammo you expended is five to ten times the amount you receive for your trade goods, meaning that you lose money every time you try to make a trade run unless you encounter few to no predators along the way. And given the fact that if you see one, you're going to make a huge racket that draws the attention of others, that is so unlikely as to be nearly impossible.

Seriously, small distributed shipments, fast light couriers. Best way to go.

About the predators special sense even if it's a very dangerous ability. I think it can be fooled after all the illusion exists to deceive the senses. Even in nature preys developp tactics to fool their preadtors

A device or spell that creates a fake psychic signature/presence/etc. comes to mind. The way preds' 6th sense works is still a bit ambiguous though. But that's another story.

observer88 wrote:

A device or spell that creates a fake psychic signature/presence/etc. comes to mind. The way preds' 6th sense works is still a bit ambiguous though. But that's another story.

For a convoy, slather the bad boys in anti-magic, put guns and surface-to-air weapons on the vehicles, and here's another one... send out human-looking flesh/clay golems that explode. Preferably cheaply-made golems (if possible), who walk the perimeter and explore in the bushes. If it goes in the mouth, it goes kaboom plus it sprays napalm.

Do golems trip that 6th sense? If so they make excellent decoys.

I can't help but wonder why some people choose to express their affection for Felarya, by devising ways to blow it up.

Anyway, from a storytelling perspective, the idea of secret trade routs and hidden safe-houses is quite intriguing. Not to mention all the cloak-and-dagger, backstabbing, double-crossing fun that Quantum Mechanic mentioned. Lots of really neat potential there.

Cypress wrote:

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

... It's probably the fairies having fun.

i believe its more attributed to the general instability of the planet.... and also likely a function of Notys mere presence. though a skilled fairy could probably do so... i don't think the average has much in the way of dimensional magic.

I don't care what it is, since either way I'm screwed, considering I would stumble into those things fairly often.

PrinnyDood wrote:

I can't help but wonder why some people choose to express their affection for Felarya, by devising ways to blow it up.

Who wants to blow up Felarya?

Survival in Felarya is a huge and deadly puzzle, especially for humans. This represents a challenge. A challenge in an environment as fun as Felarya will attract players.

It's all about eat or be eaten here.

I guarantee you if Felarya were a fully fleshed out game, it would grow slowly at first, and then a year later you'd have gunfights breaking out at Wal Marts over the last copy in stock. All so people could figure out sure-fire ways to play eat or be eaten.

Raveolution wrote:

Who wants to blow up Felarya?

Survival in Felarya is a huge and deadly puzzle, especially for humans. This represents a challenge. A challenge in an environment as fun as Felarya will attract players.

It's all about eat or be eaten here.

I guarantee you if Felarya were a fully fleshed out game, it would grow slowly at first, and then a year later you'd have gunfights breaking out at Wal Marts over the last copy in stock. All so people could figure out sure-fire ways to play eat or be eaten.

Heh, sorry for the snark, I have a bad habit of that sometimes. I was mostly responding to the fact that your suggestions seemed very much 'out of sync' with the spirit of this fantasy world. I just can't picture an unstoppable railgun convoy trundling along through Felarya, except perhaps in some hilarious bizzaro universe.

However, I now see that it's more like a mental game of 'given unlimited technology and resources, could I kill every predator that got in my way?' for you, rather than a serious suggestion for the world. Which is cool by me, though I still don't see the appeal in trying to devise a sure-fire way to survive in Felarya, especially using brute-force firepower. It kinda runs against the grain of the whole idea behind the world, in my mind.

But to each their own, and it's not like it's hurting anything, so who am I to complain?

Anyway, I apologize for running this tread further off topic. Please, continue with the trade route discussion people, I'll trouble you no more.

PrinnyDood wrote:

Raveolution wrote:

Who wants to blow up Felarya?

Survival in Felarya is a huge and deadly puzzle, especially for humans. This represents a challenge. A challenge in an environment as fun as Felarya will attract players.

It's all about eat or be eaten here.

I guarantee you if Felarya were a fully fleshed out game, it would grow slowly at first, and then a year later you'd have gunfights breaking out at Wal Marts over the last copy in stock. All so people could figure out sure-fire ways to play eat or be eaten.

Heh, sorry for the snark, I have a bad habit of that sometimes. I was mostly responding to the fact that your suggestions seemed very much 'out of sync' with the spirit of this fantasy world. I just can't picture an unstoppable railgun convoy trundling along through Felarya, except perhaps in some hilarious bizzaro universe.

However, I now see that it's more like a mental game of 'given unlimited technology and resources, could I kill every predator that got in my way?' for you, rather than a serious suggestion for the world. Which is cool by me, though I still don't see the appeal in trying to devise a sure-fire way to survive in Felarya, especially using brute-force firepower. It kinda runs against the grain of the whole idea behind the world, in my mind.

But to each their own, and it's not like it's hurting anything, so who am I to complain?

Anyway, I apologize for running this tread further off topic. Please, continue with the trade route discussion people, I'll trouble you no more.

Well, in the spirit of this fantasy universe, you have to think about the goals of people crossing Felarya. People like to cross land in safety no matter what universe it is. As dangerous as Felarya is, you're likely to have some epic conflicts. Commercial interests will demand the pacification of those Preds. They'll absolutely demand it, that's just being logical. Families of people devoured will pay well for some payback. The fairies and nagas alone are likely to bring all the humans together to clear trade routes of threats. Of course the humans will go right back to being fragmented afterwards and the Preds will just keep coming back. I'm not sure where this falls under "blow Felarya up" but it's just how humans are: we like pacifying predators and making the world safe for human expansion.

Frankly I think the Guardians would be working overtime to keep them under control.

Raveolution wrote:

Well, in the spirit of this fantasy universe, you have to think about the goals of people crossing Felarya. People like to cross land in safety no matter what universe it is. As dangerous as Felarya is, you're likely to have some epic conflicts.

It's something everyone wish but unfortunately it's not always the case because the trade routes always draw the attention of bandits and thieves... No matter the universe you travel you will always face problem when you are a merchant.

Raveolution wrote:

Commercial interests will demand the pacification of those Preds. They'll absolutely demand it, that's just being logical.

That's why there is the mercenaries or company who offer there protection, and the fact the danger can be a good reason to the merchant to increase the prices. It's a good advantage for the merchant and the people who sells their protection

The pacification of the Preds require a pacification of the entire world of Felarya.

Raveolution wrote:

Families of people devoured will pay well for some payback.

Only if the family is wealthy. It's a simple employees there is few chance, for this kind of job it's always people who have serious need of money who do this kind of jobs.

Raveolution wrote:

The fairies and nagas alone are likely to bring all the humans together to clear trade routes of threats.

It will be depend on the place and the route, near human settlement like Negav yes but next to Giant Tree, the fairy kingdom

And nagas and fairies are not the only predators on Felarya, there are the other hybrids predators but the faunas too.

Raveolution wrote:

Of course the humans will go right back to being fragmented afterwards and the Preds will just keep coming back. I'm not sure where this falls under "blow Felarya up" but it's just how humans are: we like pacifying predators and making the world safe for human expansion.

1)This logic will draw the attention of the guardians,it's a threat for the balance the other races.
2)sorry for you main threat are not the predators but the humans who want to steal the goods.

Raveolution wrote:

Frankly I think the Guardians would be working overtime to keep them under control.

The guardians are no reason to interfere except it's a threat for the balance of Felarya. It's something the humans have to deal by themselves without threating the balance of the world.

To conclude: You focus on the predators and neglect the threat of the humans, the predators can be considered as dangers of the environment but the threat of the humans are more important because they are more unpredictable and sometime well-armed.

Raveolution wrote:

Commercial interests will demand the pacification of those Preds. They'll absolutely demand it, that's just being logical.

I agree. In fact, humans in general would demand it. In a totally logical, realistic (given the different physics of the world, of course) Felarya, I'm pretty sure it would very rapidly degenerate into a vicious cycle. One of humans developing enough tech/magic to explode pretty much anything smaller than a moon, and conquering the world, followed by them being smacked back into the stone-age by the Guardians. Rinse and repeat. Assuming of course, that humans, given access to both magic and technology, couldn't come up with some way to stop even the Guardians. Which is an assumption I'm not quite willing to make. We humans are unremittingly badass when it comes to eliminating perceived threats to our species.

Unfortunately, the version of Felarya I've just described is not nearly as interesting or fun as the the one presented by Karbo. So I simply choose to ignore the most logical line of reasoning, to better hold true to the spirit of the world. Suspension of disbelief and all that.

Raveolution wrote:

I'm not sure where this falls under "blow Felarya up"

As I said, I was being snarky, and for that, I apologize.

Alright, this time I really, really, will stop running this tread off topic. Sorry folks!