True Names: Do they exist / hold any power on Felarya?

True names are a pretty 'common' concept in fiction. If you know someone's true name (Be they mortal or otherwise), you can have power over their actions, body, and perhaps even soul. However, I have not seen any real instances of True Names being used on Felarya, or really even hints to them. Does this mean that Felaryan beings have no True Names? Does it mean they are free from the fear of being dominated against their will? Or does it mean that the natives of Felarya are very good at keeping such things secret and to themselves?

Discuss.

Generally, the True Name concept falls under the category of Rule-based Magic, and it's typically only used in fictional works that specifically focus on it.

I've also noticed that it typically tends to apply more to older, more powerful beings; the "greater" a being's existence, the more bound by rules it seems to be. It's certainly possible that True Names may hold real power on Felarya, but that they simply don't apply until a creature hits a certain zenith of their existence.

For instance, knowing a low-level demon's True Name may give you total power over that demon, or it might be completely meaningless to the demon, no matter how loudly you yell it. Knowing the True Name of King Trazix, though... now that's more than likely a completely different matter.

To reference concepts from Type-Moon, the older a Mystery (a legend, myth, or miracle) grows, the more powerful and defined its existence becomes. Eventually, it develops its own power, just by virtue of its existence becoming permanently "fixed" within the Universe. You can have a great hero named Bob, who might be strong, wise, and powerful... but when he dies, he's just one of a million unsung heroes that have existed throughout history. On the other hand, you have people like King Arthur and Achilles, whose legends people have been telling and will continue to tell for thousands of years; these "Mysteries" have become set in the Universe, and now hold a kind of power of their own.

When you hear the word "Excalibur", most people's minds will automatically associate it with the legendary sword. It's this association that gives a myth or mythical entity its power, in terms of magic. On Felarya, I think (but am by no means certain) that True Names would only be a concern for relatively powerful magical entities and the most powerful of mortal magic users (yes, in legends True Names work on wizards and sorcerors, too). Elemental Lords, Archangels, Archdukes/Queens of Hell most certainly have to worry about them, if the concept actually holds any power in Felarya. In addition, the higher eschelon of supernatural beings underneath them would probably be very careful and very discrete on the matter as well.

For the typical magical being, though? Nah, probably not. Otherwise, once a predator's true name got out, it would basically be neutralized as a threat to humans, nekos, elves, or whatever prey species discovered its true name. After a few thousand years, that would wreck havoc with the balance of power in Felarya.

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

Generally, the True Name concept falls under the category of Rule-based Magic, and it's typically only used in fictional works that specifically focus on it.

I've also noticed that it typically tends to apply more to older, more powerful beings; the "greater" a being's existence, the more bound by rules it seems to be. It's certainly possible that True Names may hold real power on Felarya, but that they simply don't apply until a creature hits a certain zenith of their existence.

For instance, knowing a low-level demon's True Name may give you total power over that demon, or it might be completely meaningless to the demon, no matter how loudly you yell it. Knowing the True Name of King Trazix, though... now that's more than likely a completely different matter.
(snip)

So what if the GUARDIANS have true names?

If so... hoorah...

Malahite wrote:

Mercreti: "Human, you've been messing with our affairs for too long a-"
Human: "Zorncradastafelactraziasiltanosamigallopa," a pause for a breath, the human is smitten.
Mercreti: "Close that time, only a half dozen syllables away."

I could see that happening. Mercreti strikes me as somewhat pragmatic, for some reason. On the other hand, that makes me envision other scenarios...

Nemyra: "No, no, you're pronouncing it all wrong. It's Kuu-thh-oool-hoo-phhh-tah-nuh, dummy."

Human: "Foolish Guardian! By the power of the High Speech, I bind you with your True Name! Cthulhu F'taghn! Hahahaha-aaaaaaaaaaiiiiieee!"

Nemyra:

Raveolution wrote:

So what if the GUARDIANS have true names?

If so... hoorah...

Only really becomes an issue if there's someone who knows their true name. But then, I doubt the Guardians would have True Names... at least, they may very well have been bound by that magic before becoming Guardians. But now, I'm not even sure they really classify as "entities" in the usual sense of the word.

Under the cosmology of the Type-Moon universe, each Guardian would probably qualify as a Counter Force himself or herself. Since we don't really know anything about the nature of the Guardians, anything really is just speculation, but that's the closest parallel I can think of.

If a Guardian is the equivalent of a Counter Force, the concept of True Names holding power over them just doesn't apply; it's like trying to tell a hurricane to stay off your damn lawn.

To be honest, I don't like the concept of true names holding complete influence over you.

For some reason, I loathe it more than Gregole hates the thought of dragons in Felarya. There's quite enough in Felarya that can kill you. Let's try and keep our free wills. K?

How about some influence, depending on their will power?

Pendragon wrote:

To be honest, I don't like the concept of true names holding complete influence over you.

To be fair, they're often limited to supernatural beings. They're also often put there by their original creators to prevent them from going crazy and posing a threat.

"And now, Father, I shall take my place as-"
"Charlestaleon Marcalous."
"Why hello Father! How are you this evening?"

Not only that, but even the earliest concepts of True Names don't involve someone being able to take away your free will or completely control you. There's plenty of legends of entities getting around it and taking terrible revenge on presumptious mortals.

The idea of a True Name is that it's the ultimate vulnerability, not instant mind control. If someone has your True Name, they can generally do some pretty nasty things to you, like bypass your natural defenses (spell resistance, immunity to a certain type of magic, using sympathetic magic on you to make a doll and stick pins in it even if you don't have organs, etc.).

You're totally within their power not because they can directly control your actions, but because you can't really defend yourself from them, regardless of how much greater your power is than theirs. They are basically turning your own power against you.

Note that in all of the myths and legends I've read, I can not recall a single instance of someone using a True Name that turned out well for them. In fact, they usually come to terrible, terrible ends.

TheQuantumMechanic wrote:

If someone has your True Name, they can generally do some pretty nasty things to you, like bypass your natural defenses (spell resistance, immunity to a certain type of magic, using sympathetic magic on you to make a doll and stick pins in it even if you don't have organs, etc.).

A favored thing is to hit those using Wraith Forms or made insubstantial and to force them to "Be Flesh". Especially useful if the target is something like a Mage in a Mist Form passing between a thin area, someplace where 'natural' flesh won't protect them [Falling through Lava], etc.

Malahite wrote:

A favored thing is to hit those using Wraith Forms or made insubstantial and to force them to "Be Flesh". Especially useful if the target is something like a Mage in a Mist Form passing between a thin area, someplace where 'natural' flesh won't protect them [Falling through Lava], etc.

... I swear I must have played D&D with you at some point, I had a (evil, unbeknownst to the rest of the party... until that moment) mage player do exactly that to an important NPC and a few party members.

So I did what any reasonable DM would have done in the situation...

...

... I gave him bonus experience.

Ah. Well, all of that clears the true name thing up a bit. It seems much less broken as a tactic in battle now.

Thanks for the explanation, guys.