For the Bad guys.

This is a Thread for The bad guys, the Antagonist, The Villains. Because there are too few around. I'm not talking about the miss understood of over zealous I'm talking about the down right not good every time you see them you know a kitten gets killed or an orphan gets chocked to death bad guys.

Not sure if my characters have a single antagonist, usually whatever predators or hunters they meet, but we'll see what happens~

Depends

They try to eat/kill Ruby and/or Aisu? (usually Aisu)

AisuKaiko wrote:

Not sure if my characters have a single antagonist, usually whatever predators or hunters they meet, but we'll see what happens~

It all depends do they go out of there way to do something wrong.

Example Arale http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Arale

She is Lawfully Evil. She will go out of here do something to get what she wants by crushing someone else. Like a Lawyer she is not going to flat out break the law. But she will Do every thing she can to get around it or use it in her favor or against othere.

Or Gunthere http://www.felarya.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gunther

He is The closes thing In Felarya to a Chaotic Evil. There is no reason for him to dick people over the way he dose. But he does it is anyway for his own enjoyment.

AisuKaiko wrote:

They try to eat/kill Ruby and/or Aisu? (usually Aisu)

Was it done on purpose or out of hunger. Were other's passed up or hurt in order to get to them?

My primary villain is Anchodamus. He's a 50 foot tall army green battle droid equipped with everything his older brothers weren't.

AKA he has two arm mounted gatling gun barrel arms, a fully functional air propulsion pack, several cluster missile emplacements on his two mechanical back wings, concealable vibro blades within his arms, and a magic/force/psionic deflection device.

He is what I'd consider lawful evil. He doesn't go around slaughtering things left and right. Rather, he makes sure everything is done by the book so nothing comes back to bite him, but he isn't above getting his microchips in the mud to accomplish what he needs. The primary obsession for him is the containment/destruction of the Anchor brothers.

He also has a bunch of suboordinates, but I won't get into them for now.

one of the personalities of my skitzo neko (Tazlye) is pretty bad, i would label her as chaotic evil. she likes setting people on fire, mauling them, hacking and slashing them etc. she finds you just the smallest bit annoying and she will start hurting or killing you... though she could do that if she likes you too XD

Well, the closest thing I have to a villain is Bevvan. But I think he would fall into the "misunderstood zealot" category, since his only goal is to bring humanity into its "rightful place" as the rulers of the universe.

Rictur, though... could be considered evil. He is a human-sized elf consumed by dark magicks from both himself, and Bevvan. However, despite his sadistic qualities, he is kept under control by his master, Bevvan.

i think the most interesting villans are the ones who have a desire to make humanity into something better, but just go about doing it the wrong way.

Hmm... well my only truly evil original characters are Bonnie and Clyde (nekos) whom pretty much do just about every evil thing imaginable from rape, to murder, to enslavement and that is if they're in a good mood. I haven't used them yet but they'll appear in the next chapter of Sora's Story...

SuperPieGuy9 wrote:

Hmm... well my only truly evil original characters are Bonnie and Clyde (nekos) whom pretty much do just about every evil thing imaginable from rape, to murder, to enslavement and that is if they're in a good mood. I haven't used them yet but they'll appear in the next chapter of Sora's Story...

Bonnie and Clyde huh? The naming scheme reminds me of these two:



Sounds kinda like they're being amoral assholes for the sake of it. I'm hoping they'll be a little less shallow than that.

Archmage_Bael wrote:

i think the most interesting villans are the ones who have a desire to make humanity into something better, but just go about doing it the wrong way.

I find that type to be a lot more realistic.

And if there's one thing I go for, it's realism in the most unrealistic settings.

/Fish/ wrote:

SuperPieGuy9 wrote:

Hmm... well my only truly evil original characters are Bonnie and Clyde (nekos) whom pretty much do just about every evil thing imaginable from rape, to murder, to enslavement and that is if they're in a good mood. I haven't used them yet but they'll appear in the next chapter of Sora's Story...

Bonnie and Clyde huh? The naming scheme reminds me of these two:



Sounds kinda like they're being amoral assholes for the sake of it. I'm hoping they'll be a little less shallow than that.

Well Bonnie and Clyde are currently underdeveloped so I guess we'll just have to wait and see. And actually the funny thing is I was thinking about watching the earlier episodes of Pokemon when I started making Bonnie and Clyde.

ah jessie and james...

sadly i can mimic james' voice pretty well. espcially his laugh.

Pendragon wrote:

My primary villain is Anchodamus. He's a 50 foot tall army green battle droid equipped with everything his older brothers weren't.

AKA he has two arm mounted gatling gun barrel arms, a fully functional air propulsion pack, several cluster missile emplacements on his two mechanical back wings, concealable vibro blades within his arms, and a magic/force/psionic deflection device.

He is what I'd consider lawful evil. He doesn't go around slaughtering things left and right. Rather, he makes sure everything is done by the book so nothing comes back to bite him, but he isn't above getting his microchips in the mud to accomplish what he needs. The primary obsession for him is the containment/destruction of the Anchor brothers.

He also has a bunch of suboordinates, but I won't get into them for now.

That's what I'm talking about. My problem with droids is that they can never be called evil because simply act as they were programed to. This would be different if it was a battle armor that just up an took over someones body and soul. But this is still on the right page.

Reptillian wrote:

one of the personalities of my skitzo neko (Tazlye) is pretty bad, i would label her as chaotic evil. she likes setting people on fire, mauling them, hacking and slashing them etc. she finds you just the smallest bit annoying and she will start hurting or killing you... though she could do that if she likes you too XD

More epic win. Start using that. If you can have her get into it with the other personalities or bully them as she sees fit. But use it and Keep it up.

SuperPieGuy9 wrote:

Hmm... well my only truly evil original characters are Bonnie and Clyde (nekos) whom pretty much do just about every evil thing imaginable from rape, to murder, to enslavement and that is if they're in a good mood. I haven't used them yet but they'll appear in the next chapter of Sora's Story...

I always had a soft spot for the old school 1920's and 30's gangsters. Those willing to take on the world. I'll be looking forward to that chapter.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Archmage_Bael wrote:

i think the most interesting villans are the ones who have a desire to make humanity into something better, but just go about doing it the wrong way.

I find that type to be a lot more realistic.

And if there's one thing I go for, it's realism in the most unrealistic settings.

I always hated those for the greater good villains. They are practically a dime a dozen these days. Considering they are almost always some cult leader looking for there own place in history. The most reasonable of those types are the scientist that get way into their work. And most of the time there not trying to advance humanity as they are just trying to get more research. By any means possible.

I'm talking George W Bush evil here, Mao Tse Tung evil, the don't drop the soap in the Prison Shower guy evil . I'll even go with good people who got to the edge because of a particular turn of events and snapped. Not those crybabies with an ulterior motive. I dislike because that is one of the most lazy ways to make a villain.

Different tastes, xlrp. I find two dimensional villains, well, two dimensional. I like my villains with a motive that makes sense, even if it's only self-gain. Someone who's a villain just because we need someone to show where "Evil" is in the plot just doesn't appeal to me. Someone like MacBeth, a good villain. Someone like Sauron, good villain. Someone like Dagoth Ur, good villain. Someone like Snidely Whiplash, not so much.

xlrp wrote:

Reptillian wrote:

one of the personalities of my skitzo neko (Tazlye) is pretty bad, i would label her as chaotic evil. she likes setting people on fire, mauling them, hacking and slashing them etc. she finds you just the smallest bit annoying and she will start hurting or killing you... though she could do that if she likes you too XD

More epic win. Start using that. If you can have her get into it with the other personalities or bully them as she sees fit. But use it and Keep it up.

thank you. and she already does bullies the good personality (Issuz) with every chance she gets^^

Malahite wrote:

Different tastes, xlrp. I find two dimensional villains, well, two dimensional. I like my villains with a motive that makes sense, even if it's only self-gain. Someone who's a villain just because we need someone to show where "Evil" is in the plot just doesn't appeal to me. Someone like MacBeth, a good villain. Someone like Sauron, good villain. Someone like Dagoth Ur, good villain. Someone like Snidely Whiplash, not so much.

Motives that makes sense are fine. I just don't care for the massive slew Nazi Arian Race bad guys that keep flooding the market on bad guys. You know who they are the for the greater good AKA just there team only bad guys. Those are the worst of the villains they no type of personality or qualities that even make you love to hate them. Those are the single dimensional villains. Better yet lets keep it up to date.

In the movie Taken with Liam Neeson. A lot of people confused him for a Antihero. Nope, he was a flat out Villain. He had no regard for others, not only tourchered a guy but admitted to doing a couple of times before and was obviously enjoying himself. Had nothing against breaking laws. And all the other horrible things he did. His daughter getting kidnapped was his motivation. However while watching the movie you excuse all the stuff that he was doing. Totally ignoring that is was his job to do things like this all the time. That right there is a true complex villain. He could function in the normal everyday world smile in your face and stab you in the back. And you cheered him on every step of the way.

Since your obviously a man of scholarly taste. Lets take Roman Mythology Medusa. There is no way you can consider her a Villain. Before becoming a monster she was a priestess for Athena. She may have been very attractive but she did no wrong. She seduced no one or lured no one to her. Poseidon raped her (doll it up all you want. Try telling a GOD no means no) Now She gets raped and Athena punishes Medusa, because She sure as hell is not going to try and punish her Uncle Poseidon. Now, you want to play the she turned people to stone card. Fine, however she lived in a little isolated area that you had to go out of your way to get to. Considering she knew what she had been turned into and people back then being less than understanding. You can't count self defense as villainous behavior. More so when you go to them. Glorify Perseus all you want but he might as well have been a hit man. Plus he had all the qualities of a Villain.

I could go on for days but you get the point.

xlrp wrote:

Pendragon wrote:

My primary villain is Anchodamus. He's a 50 foot tall army green battle droid equipped with everything his older brothers weren't.

AKA he has two arm mounted gatling gun barrel arms, a fully functional air propulsion pack, several cluster missile emplacements on his two mechanical back wings, concealable vibro blades within his arms, and a magic/force/psionic deflection device.

He is what I'd consider lawful evil. He doesn't go around slaughtering things left and right. Rather, he makes sure everything is done by the book so nothing comes back to bite him, but he isn't above getting his microchips in the mud to accomplish what he needs. The primary obsession for him is the containment/destruction of the Anchor brothers.

He also has a bunch of suboordinates, but I won't get into them for now.

That's what I'm talking about. My problem with droids is that they can never be called evil because simply act as they were programed to. This would be different if it was a battle armor that just up an took over someones body and soul. But this is still on the right page.

That's the thing. He's become a sentient droid along with most of my other robot characters. it was an effect of entering Felarya through a ZOMGWTFBBQ blackhole.

He follows the mission objective like he follows an order from one's father. He can disobey it if he truly does not wish to follow the order, but he finds no issue doing it. He is also willing to do some pretty amoral things to accomplish it.

But since the anchor Brothers aren't really heroes, but more like regular fellas as robots, he isn't so evil.

Malahite wrote:

Different tastes, xlrp. I find two dimensional villains, well, two dimensional. I like my villains with a motive that makes sense, even if it's only self-gain. Someone who's a villain just because we need someone to show where "Evil" is in the plot just doesn't appeal to me. Someone like MacBeth, a good villain. Someone like Sauron, good villain. Someone like Dagoth Ur, good villain. Someone like Snidely Whiplash, not so much.

What about Robin Hood? He was a guy who stole from the rich to take care of the poor!

And by the way I elaborated a little more on Bonnie and Clyde. The reason they do the things they do is because they believe that nekos should be the only sentient race in Felarya and pretty much are trying to wipe out every single sentient race that isn't a neko or consorts with other sentient races (like Sora who interacts non violently with fairies).

Ah, villains. I am very picky about my villains. They're usually my favourite part of a movie or book. Mostly because I am one. >

I like though how perception of villainy depends on personal moral views. Really, if you look totally objectively, no one could be a villain. But, still, we need someone to hate. Heros, though they reach it through different means, usually have around the same reason for being heroes. Villains are always villains for a very personal reason.

Hmm. I've unfortunately only really used stock villains in my stories. If I really wanted a "real" villain, I'd have to take a lot more time to develop due to pickiness on my part. However... there is one villain I am considering bringing back...

xlrp wrote:

I always hated those for the greater good villains. They are practically a dime a dozen these days. Considering they are almost always some cult leader looking for there own place in history. The most reasonable of those types are the scientist that get way into their work. And most of the time there not trying to advance humanity as they are just trying to get more research. By any means possible.

I'm talking George W Bush evil here, Mao Tse Tung evil, the don't drop the soap in the Prison Shower guy evil . I'll even go with good people who got to the edge because of a particular turn of events and snapped. Not those crybabies with an ulterior motive. I dislike because that is one of the most lazy ways to make a villain.

I have to disagree, there. I find the "Imma be a bad dood becuz I feelz likes it" people to be pretty boring, myself. I mean, that's not to say my baddies don't have a touch of sadism here and there. In fact, Bevvan mind-controls and reprograms several creatures, including a few humans, to execute his will. In order to accomplish what he wants, he's willing to elevate himself above all morals. I like bad guys with a moral grey to them. They're not outright evil, because it's easy to hate those people. I want villains to make people think, not outright feel. You know what I'm sayin'?

That's not to say I won't include a few evil side-villians along the way. I'm just saying you shouldn't expect them to be big plot-twisters. I dunno, though... I could probably make use of one or two.

You mentioned Perseus and Medusa. I admit that I'd never looked at the myth that closely, and thank you for bringing that point to light and educating us further. However, I think you've proven my point. The lines were dimmed a little there. In all honesty, it depends on the point of view. Say Bevvan did win and humans ruled everything... then the Jurdeans would have seemed like barbarians trying to preserve their flawed way of life, Zion would have looked like a thumb-twiddler who was unsure of which path to take, and Bevvan would have been some saint that lovingly raised humanity to its rightful place above all others. However, from the opposite view, Bevvan was a twisted psychopath that barely maintained any semblance of sanity that was brought down by the prime examples of humans who thrived in a hostile deathworld, and a brilliant genius who'd piously debated his stance and the best way to serve his god. However, if you look form both points simultaneously...

Pendragon wrote:

That's the thing. He's become a sentient droid along with most of my other robot characters. it was an effect of entering Felarya through a ZOMGWTFBBQ blackhole.

He follows the mission objective like he follows an order from one's father. He can disobey it if he truly does not wish to follow the order, but he finds no issue doing it. He is also willing to do some pretty amoral things to accomplish it.

But since the anchor Brothers aren't really heroes, but more like regular fellas as robots, he isn't so evil.

I'll be looking forward to seeing how you pulled this one off. It seems complex

SuperPieGuy9 wrote:

What about Robin Hood? He was a guy who stole from the rich to take care of the poor!

Robbin Hood was up against a Tyrannical European government. His motive was steeling for the Rich European lords who unfairly takes their citizens who were already living in poverty. He can't be considered a villain when he was looking out for those were being treated unfairly.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

I have to disagree, there. I find the "Imma be a bad dood becuz I feelz likes it" people to be pretty boring, myself. I mean, that's not to say my baddies don't have a touch of sadism here and there. In fact, Bevvan mind-controls and reprograms several creatures, including a few humans, to execute his will. In order to accomplish what he wants, he's willing to elevate himself above all morals. I like bad guys with a moral grey to them. They're not outright evil, because it's easy to hate those people. I want villains to make people think, not outright feel. You know what I'm sayin'?

That's not to say I won't include a few evil side-villians along the way. I'm just saying you shouldn't expect them to be big plot-twisters. I dunno, though... I could probably make use of one or two.

You mentioned Perseus and Medusa. I admit that I'd never looked at the myth that closely, and thank you for bringing that point to light and educating us further. However, I think you've proven my point. The lines were dimmed a little there. In all honesty, it depends on the point of view. Say Bevvan did win and humans ruled everything... then the Jurdeans would have seemed like barbarians trying to preserve their flawed way of life, Zion would have looked like a thumb-twiddler who was unsure of which path to take, and Bevvan would have been some saint that lovingly raised humanity to its rightful place above all others. However, from the opposite view, Bevvan was a twisted psychopath that barely maintained any semblance of sanity that was brought down by the prime examples of humans who thrived in a hostile deathworld, and a brilliant genius who'd piously debated his stance and the best way to serve his god. However, if you look form both points simultaneously...

OK let me rephrase once again. Sine this a thread for everyone. The general idea is for to make a bad guy, villain, or antagonist. It would flat out rude to limit everyone with to just one type of evil. So you get the general statement which is what ever his or her motives may be. At the end of the line they are still the bad. When it doubt keep it simple and let people have the freedom to create how they see fit. Why I pointed out that the cult leaders are not my personal taste and I have disdain for them. They are still allowed. I'm still going to talk smack about them Because that is just how I roll.

We look at history and look at cultures that got wiped out just because some guy went, those savages need Jesus. Where I get the dime a dozen remark. You know all about them pick your history book on the one you want. Getting back more gray area bad guys. Achilles where do I start with this guy. I just can't see how he was a good guy. He was arrogant , a horn dog, considering he was doing both men and women. Damn near won the Trojan war alone. Had a thing for Not only killing leaders but defiling theirs corpses. Treated a River God like a punk at a bar. I still keep wondering at what point was this guy Heroic. That is where the gray area comes in. Since he was on the side of the Greeks since he was beating on the opposing team he got a free pass to do what he wanted so long as it was to the other team. Was he a bad guy, yes, did he have motivation, you bet. Was he tying to promote the Greek race. Nope, he was just busy person. And found some odd ways to entertain himself.

Once again, we, on this forum, find ourselves arguing over which type of villain is the best, when the answer is obviously that it's far too subjective to make any one call.

I will repeat once again that a villain is only as good as his or her story.
Let's compare a few villains from different stories.
Independence Day: The aliens were technologically advanced space-locusts. Intelligent, but alien, unrelatable, and undeniably savage and malevolent. Yet they were incredibly frightening and made for a spectacular movie. Their only motivation was plundering resources. It wasn't a story about morality, it was an epic war story.

Conversely, you have the Joker, who's a madman who does what he does for the sheer audacity of it. He's cynical about society and doesn't trust it to do anything to stop him, which is why he goes out of his way to be as outrageous as possible. He's a shitload deeper than the aliens, and he makes a smashing villain. He has a motivation, but it's twisted to the point where it's hard to feel sympathy for him.

Then you have king Micolon, from Crisis and Scarecrow, who wants to eliminate a species that he views as Always Chaotic Evil because one ate his kid daughter. And of course, given how every naga in the whole damn story WAS chaotic evil, he was pretty damn justified. He wasn't a good villain at all, primarily because he was not only sympathetic, but more sympathetic than the protagonists.


Then again, you also have... oh hell, every anime villain ever. =P They're sympathetic and often good at their job. But they're still villains. They might do a heel face turn if they're sympathetic enough. They can be good or bad, depending on the writer's skill.

Then you have Hitler, who is a villain by anyone's perspective. A complete monster and the most vile human ever to be spawned on this planet, and yet he was only this because he was abused early in life and aspired to make something of himself. He was human and had a motivation that is relatable, but is still so loathsome a man that his very stare constitutes pollution and is capable of harming Captain Planet.


Oh, there's also Snidely Whiplash, who is awesome, your opinion on the matter be damned. =P


See my point? There IS no "best" style of villain. It's ALL about what the story does with them. Villainy isn't a career or a race. It's a plot device.

A villain with no motivation isn't necessarily boring, nor is one with motivation necessarily a good thing. Typically a villain is someone you want to see go down, and being sympathetic can get in the way of that. On the other hand, sometimes it genuinely does add to the story.

A good villain is someone that opposes the protagonists. It needn't be a person. A volcano makes a good villain if written well. How good it is is all a matter of how the story plays out.

GREGOLE wrote:

Once again, we, on this forum, find ourselves arguing over which type of villain is the best, when the answer is obviously that it's far too subjective to make any one call.

I will repeat once again that a villain is only as good as his or her story.
Let's compare a few villains from different stories.

A villain with no motivation isn't necessarily boring, nor is one with motivation necessarily a good thing. Typically a villain is someone you want to see go down, and being sympathetic can get in the way of that. On the other hand, sometimes it genuinely does add to the story.

A good villain is someone that opposes the protagonists. It needn't be a person. A volcano makes a good villain if written well. How good it is is all a matter of how the story plays out.

Good to know your out to help. Since we a lot of talented writers. Such as your self who can help improve characters and enhance story telling. That is why this is open to everyone. And I thought you vanished with you Shape Shifter Ryla who I did happen to like. Good to have you back in action