Karma's a bitch, 4Kids.

There's censorship and there's absolute retardation.

What 4kids did was the latter. They were a horrible dubbing company. They shouldn't dub anime if it isn't for kids.

I mean geez. is that so hard to do?

As for all the "4kids does things for kids, so of course etc.", I call bullshit. In the old days, kids watched people riding on horses shooting the ever-loving shit out of each other. Now, all the networks think kids should be sheltered and kept away from all things violent or sexual until they're 15 or above.

Note how the kids who grew up watching shootouts grew up to be alot less violent, or at least, alot more productive than the more recent generations? There is a reason for that. We now treat children like freaking idiots 24/7, and hence they become idiots. they need to learn everything the hard wasy about guns, drugs, and alchohol, because we DON'T ALLOW IT TO BE DISCUSSED EARLIER. Kids are smarter than we think they are, but we have companies like 4Kids that seems to want them to think that the world is free from anything like death and more heinous forms of violence, leading to a sense of FASCINATION when they do find it!

Raise kids with facts, not idealism! Values, not ritualistic happy times! THIS is the reason 4Kids sucks: It doesn't treat kids like human beings capable of learing, it treats them like adorable little idiots to be protected until they can't defend themselves when the time comes to enter the harsh world. Parent, too, are the same way nowadays. Maybe we should start treating children like people instead of rhetoric-sucking blobs of stupid.

from what I hear in this thread it seems like One Piece was a pretty good anime in its original form =/

I always wondered why people would go "One Piece was awesome!!" because when I watched it it sucked all sorts of balls and noodles >.< It was just....terrible all around. I couldn't imagine it being any better >.>

And one thing about 4Kids is that they use the same....EFFING band for EVERYTHING. Have you noticed that? So thatEVERY show has the same suckish "generic hero music" in the background. Everytime saturday morning hits and my baby brother runs to the TV I have to mentally prepare myself.

FalconJudge wrote:

As for all the "4kids does things for kids, so of course etc.", I call bullshit. In the old days, kids watched people riding on horses shooting the ever-loving shit out of each other. Now, all the networks think kids should be sheltered and kept away from all things violent or sexual until they're 15 or above.

Note how the kids who grew up watching shootouts grew up to be alot less violent, or at least, alot more productive than the more recent generations? There is a reason for that. We now treat children like freaking idiots 24/7, and hence they become idiots. they need to learn everything the hard wasy about guns, drugs, and alchohol, because we DON'T ALLOW IT TO BE DISCUSSED EARLIER. Kids are smarter than we think they are, but we have companies like 4Kids that seems to want them to think that the world is free from anything like death and more heinous forms of violence, leading to a sense of FASCINATION when they do find it!

Raise kids with facts, not idealism! Values, not ritualistic happy times! THIS is the reason 4Kids sucks: It doesn't treat kids like human beings capable of learing, it treats them like adorable little idiots to be protected until they can't defend themselves when the time comes to enter the harsh world. Parent, too, are the same way nowadays. Maybe we should start treating children like people instead of rhetoric-sucking blobs of stupid.

Falcon has hit it on the head. I agree with the above post.

I do agree that censorship in general is a bad thing, but does that really mean that it's going to stop?

Parents will never stop trying to shield their children from "harmful" content. Granted, seeing overly violent and sexualized content can mess up/traumatize a kid. (My little brother being an example, having seen Austin Powers at age seven.)

The problem is not that censorship is always bad, it's that it's most often taken much too far.

Just because 4Kids is merely a cog in an evil machine doesn't make it any less evil itself.

Plus, regardless of any dubs they have done, the dub of One Piece alone exempts them from any excuse. That thing was a monstrosity.

Moon eyes wrote:

from what I hear in this thread it seems like One Piece was a pretty good anime in its original form =/

I always wondered why people would go "One Piece was awesome!!" because when I watched it it sucked all sorts of balls and noodles >.< It was just....terrible all around. I couldn't imagine it being any better >.>

And one thing about 4Kids is that they use the same....EFFING band for EVERYTHING. Have you noticed that? So thatEVERY show has the same suckish "generic hero music" in the background. Everytime saturday morning hits and my baby brother runs to the TV I have to mentally prepare myself.

Depends on what you found objectionable. The goofy comedy style, the strange art, yeah, that was in the pure form. However:

The voices were expert and dramatic.

The characters were a bit deeper and easier to get.

MORE VIOLENCE.

The World Government was a lot cooler and more dickish in the origional.

The voices were awesome.

There was some emotional depth, especially later on.

The voices didn't SUCK ASS.

And that's pretty much it. Oh, and the action was cooler. Somehow. Well, no "poisoned suction cups" or "showerhead-hammer things".

FalconJudge wrote:

As for all the "4kids does things for kids, so of course etc.", I call bullshit. In the old days, kids watched people riding on horses shooting the ever-loving shit out of each other. Now, all the networks think kids should be sheltered and kept away from all things violent or sexual until they're 15 or above.

Note how the kids who grew up watching shootouts grew up to be alot less violent, or at least, alot more productive than the more recent generations? There is a reason for that. We now treat children like freaking idiots 24/7, and hence they become idiots. they need to learn everything the hard wasy about guns, drugs, and alchohol, because we DON'T ALLOW IT TO BE DISCUSSED EARLIER. Kids are smarter than we think they are, but we have companies like 4Kids that seems to want them to think that the world is free from anything like death and more heinous forms of violence, leading to a sense of FASCINATION when they do find it!

Raise kids with facts, not idealism! Values, not ritualistic happy times! THIS is the reason 4Kids sucks: It doesn't treat kids like human beings capable of learing, it treats them like adorable little idiots to be protected until they can't defend themselves when the time comes to enter the harsh world. Parent, too, are the same way nowadays. Maybe we should start treating children like people instead of rhetoric-sucking blobs of stupid.

Listen mate, kids STILL see more than enough action and violence, probably more. The main difference is that kids these days aren't growing up cheering about them gawdaym injuns/nips/whatevers getting killed, they're seeing more toony stuff, which is good IMO. Look at how racist your grandparents are, growing up in a time period where that shit was acceptable doesn't make you an accepting, upstanding human being, really. Is it really so bad if kids are raised discriminating against ciggarettes and guns instead of other races?

Pendragon wrote:

There's censorship and there's absolute retardation.

What 4kids did was the latter. They were a horrible dubbing company. They shouldn't dub anime if it isn't for kids.

I mean geez. is that so hard to do?

I know right???? Did you see what 4kids did to Cowboy Bebop? And Wolfs Rain and Death Note and...

Oh wait a sec, it didn't touch them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_4Kids_licenses_and_productions

I don't see a single thing there intended for anyone over the age of twelve, sorry.

Alright alright, let's not argue here and be civil D:

Jew wrote:

FalconJudge wrote:

As for all the "4kids does things for kids, so of course etc.", I call bullshit. In the old days, kids watched people riding on horses shooting the ever-loving shit out of each other. Now, all the networks think kids should be sheltered and kept away from all things violent or sexual until they're 15 or above.

Note how the kids who grew up watching shootouts grew up to be alot less violent, or at least, alot more productive than the more recent generations? There is a reason for that. We now treat children like freaking idiots 24/7, and hence they become idiots. they need to learn everything the hard wasy about guns, drugs, and alchohol, because we DON'T ALLOW IT TO BE DISCUSSED EARLIER. Kids are smarter than we think they are, but we have companies like 4Kids that seems to want them to think that the world is free from anything like death and more heinous forms of violence, leading to a sense of FASCINATION when they do find it!

Raise kids with facts, not idealism! Values, not ritualistic happy times! THIS is the reason 4Kids sucks: It doesn't treat kids like human beings capable of learing, it treats them like adorable little idiots to be protected until they can't defend themselves when the time comes to enter the harsh world. Parent, too, are the same way nowadays. Maybe we should start treating children like people instead of rhetoric-sucking blobs of stupid.

Listen mate, kids STILL see more than enough action and violence, probably more. The main difference is that kids these days aren't growing up cheering about them gawdaym injuns/nips/whatevers getting killed, they're seeing more toony stuff, which is good IMO. Look at how racist your grandparents are, growing up in a time period where that shit was acceptable doesn't make you an accepting, upstanding human being, really. Is it really so bad if kids are raised discriminating against ciggarettes and guns instead of other races?

Pendragon wrote:

There's censorship and there's absolute retardation.

What 4kids did was the latter. They were a horrible dubbing company. They shouldn't dub anime if it isn't for kids.

I mean geez. is that so hard to do?

I know right???? Did you see what 4kids did to Cowboy Bebop? And Wolfs Rain and Death Note and...

Oh wait a sec, it didn't touch them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_4Kids_licenses_and_productions

I don't see a single thing there intended for anyone over the age of twelve, sorry.

Hoo, boy. Number 1, I agree about the racist thing. You fail to explain the insane crime rates in the "Sesame Street" generation.

Number 2, What is "acceptable" for Japanese 12 year olds is generally looked down upon by western parents. Such as: One Piece. Yes, it's a kid show, but to aire it they STILL had to censor the heck out of it. Why? Because they took it at face value that all kid's shows in all countries have similar standards.

And alot of teenagers and adults like One Piece.

I do definately see where you're coming from and respect your views, though.

FalconJudge wrote:

Hoo, boy. Number 1, I agree about the racist thing. You fail to explain the insane crime rates in the "Sesame Street" generation.

Number 2, What is "acceptable" for Japanese 12 year olds is generally looked down upon by western parents. Such as: One Piece. Yes, it's a kid show, but to aire it they STILL had to censor the heck out of it. Why? Because they took it at face value that all kid's shows in all countries have similar standards.

And alot of teenagers and adults like One Piece.

I do definately see where you're coming from and respect your views, though.

1. There's varying crime rates with most generations. Some go up and some down, but I'm pretty certain it has more to do with political situations at the time than what they watched when they were five.

2. I know that, but think about the fact that the age of consent in Japan is 13. There used to be shops and vending machines that sold used underpants of teenage girls to grown men. People read tentacle hentai on the bus. And there are women-only sections in some trains, because the rate of molestation by men on them is so high.

Japan's a different culture, and has its strengths and weaknesses. It has the lowest murder rate in the world, but obviously has a bunch of other social issues. As you said, "What is "acceptable" for Japanese 12 year olds is generally looked down upon by western parents", so you can't expect parents to just smile and accept everything their kid likes. The cultures are very different and when it comes to something as important as how kids see the world, I understand why parents could be overly concerned.

I know loads of teenagers and adults like One-Piece. Loads of teens and adults also like Pixar films, but I don't see them complaining too much about how the films aren't 100% specifically suited to them.

Jew wrote:

FalconJudge wrote:

Hoo, boy. Number 1, I agree about the racist thing. You fail to explain the insane crime rates in the "Sesame Street" generation.

Number 2, What is "acceptable" for Japanese 12 year olds is generally looked down upon by western parents. Such as: One Piece. Yes, it's a kid show, but to aire it they STILL had to censor the heck out of it. Why? Because they took it at face value that all kid's shows in all countries have similar standards.

And alot of teenagers and adults like One Piece.

I do definately see where you're coming from and respect your views, though.

1. There's varying crime rates with most generations. Some go up and some down, but I'm pretty certain it has more to do with political situations at the time than what they watched when they were five.

2. I know that, but think about the fact that the age of consent in Japan is 13. There used to be shops and vending machines that sold used underpants of teenage girls to grown men. People read tentacle hentai on the bus. And there are women-only sections in some trains, because the rate of molestation by men on them is so high.

Japan's a different culture, and has its strengths and weaknesses. It has the lowest murder rate in the world, but obviously has a bunch of other social issues. As you said, "What is "acceptable" for Japanese 12 year olds is generally looked down upon by western parents", so you can't expect parents to just smile and accept everything their kid likes. The cultures are very different and when it comes to something as important as how kids see the world, I understand why parents could be overly concerned.

I know loads of teenagers and adults like One-Piece. Loads of teens and adults also like Pixar films, but I don't see them complaining too much about how the films aren't 100% specifically suited to them.

But if someone made a dub of Wall E that gave him a smooth human voice making various comments on EVE's robo-vagina? I think people might complain then. And that is essentially what 4Kids did to One Piece. Changed everything just a large bit too much.

And about the social thing, thank you, I did not know that. And the thing about the crime rates makes sense.

Hooray! Another instance where one of my threads turned into an argument!

dlausactor6373 wrote:

Hooray! Another instance where one of my threads turned into an argument!

4kids is controversial. expect it.

FalconJudge wrote:

But if someone made a dub of Wall E that gave him a smooth human voice making various comments on EVE's robo-vagina? I think people might complain then. And that is essentially what 4Kids did to One Piece. Changed everything just a large bit too much.

And about the social thing, thank you, I did not know that. And the thing about the crime rates makes sense.

Yeah, if someone made a dub of Wall-E like that which wasn't a parody, shit would obviously hit the fan. But there's no way that'd ever happen, Japan loves Pixar films. Their culture is different, but you'd never get anything as explicit as that in a kids film. If they put in a gag where Wall-E saw Eve naked or accidently touched her tits or any of the standard risque anime gags I'd be annoyed, but not raging. There are more important things than that.

dlausactor6373 wrote:

Hooray! Another instance where one of my threads turned into an argument!

Lets throw rocks at that beehive! What a good idea!

Jew wrote:

FalconJudge wrote:

But if someone made a dub of Wall E that gave him a smooth human voice making various comments on EVE's robo-vagina? I think people might complain then. And that is essentially what 4Kids did to One Piece. Changed everything just a large bit too much.

And about the social thing, thank you, I did not know that. And the thing about the crime rates makes sense.

Yeah, if someone made a dub of Wall-E like that which wasn't a parody, shit would obviously hit the fan. But there's no way that'd ever happen, Japan loves Pixar films. Their culture is different, but you'd never get anything as explicit as that in a kids film. If they put in a gag where Wall-E saw Eve naked or accidently touched her tits or any of the standard risque anime gags I'd be annoyed, but not raging. There are more important things than that.

dlausactor6373 wrote:

Hooray! Another instance where one of my threads turned into an argument!

Lets throw rocks at that beehive! What a good idea!

All in all, does it really matter if we can get the original versions on our own, anyway? I mean, at least the major networks were losing money if hardcore anime fans turned them off so they could watch unedited copies of (insert anime X here).

The point is if it has guns, bloody violence, excessively negative language, etc, then 4kids shouldn't touch it.

There's no excuse. They only dubbed One Piece for the short term money, which is the stupidest thing a company can do. They didn't think of how to market it in the long run, which cost them several arcs that had to be cut, and the marines with water guns... um... yeah.

There's almost nothing that can be said that can excuse them from that monstrosity.

The Funimation dub of One Piece is pretty good, from what I hear.

I'd actually be somewhat glad if Funimation were the one to pick up 4Kids, they're pretty good at dubbing in general.

I'm actually kind of sad that 4Kids is going under. I used to watch Pokemon ritualistically every Saturday when I was younger and I thought it was awesome.

Granted there were things that I never understood (like the cousin of one red headed jerk [fittingly named Nastina] who wanted to kill the Tentacool for a hotel was doing because the episode that introduced her and gave you a clue was banned [or I just missed it somehow] and how Brock called the rice ball things donuts and I was like "What the heck?! That's not a donut! What the heck is wrong with Brock's brain?!") but for the most part I really wasn't offended/put off by it.

In fact, I actually like the dubbed voices that 4Kids gave the characters in seasons one through five of Pokemon and after hearing the Japanese voices, I know I like the Japanese ones less (although I liked the Japanese intro of season one better than that of the American version) than that of the american ones. As for other animes, I never really watched them so I haven't formed an opinion (although I will admit that the early One Piece was pretty screwed up and I haven't even seen the Japanese version of it).

*prepares himself for the flame storm ahead*

Well, everyone's entitled to his or her opinion. But really, Pokemon was probably one of their less-butchered ones, being mostly for the very young anyway.

SuperPieGuy9 wrote:

I'm actually kind of sad that 4Kids is going under. I used to watch Pokemon ritualistically every Saturday when I was younger and I thought it was awesome.

Granted there were things that I never understood (like the cousin of one red headed jerk [fittingly named Nastina] who wanted to kill the Tentacool for a hotel was doing because the episode that introduced her and gave you a clue was banned [or I just missed it somehow] and how Brock called the rice ball things donuts and I was like "What the heck?! That's not a donut! What the heck is wrong with Brock's brain?!") but for the most part I really wasn't offended/put off by it.

In fact, I actually like the dubbed voices that 4Kids gave the characters in seasons one through five of Pokemon and after hearing the Japanese voices, I know I like the Japanese ones less (although I liked the Japanese intro of season one better than that of the American version) than that of the american ones. As for other animes, I never really watched them so I haven't formed an opinion (although I will admit that the early One Piece was pretty screwed up and I haven't even seen the Japanese version of it).

*prepares himself for the flame storm ahead*

Them firey clouds won't be comin' from these parts. I, myself, am completely indifferent.

Bad news! Now it appears Funimation has to sell, mainly because they practically don't need their parent company, Navarre, anymore as they're doing so well on their own. Now the future of anime in the US depends on Funimation getting a good buyer. Although, it would be pretty interesting if both Funimation and 4Kids were bought by the same company.

dlausactor6373 wrote:

Bad news! Now it appears Funimation has to sell, mainly because they practically don't need their parent company, Navarre, anymore as they're doing so well on their own. Now the future of anime in the US depends on Funimation getting a good buyer. Although, it would be pretty interesting if both Funimation and 4Kids were bought by the same company.

Indeed, it would be interesting.
I'm not to good when it comes to American companies, is there anyone here who has any idea who might buy 4kids and/or Funimation?

I doubt one new company will come out of the blue and buy both stations, especially considering they both went belly-up. My money's on various western animation studios purchasing rights to a few animes each. Still, there's always the chance that no-one will be interested and American adults will be spared the horrible trauma of their beloved childrens shows being remade for American children.

Jew wrote:

I doubt one new company will come out of the blue and buy both stations, especially considering they both went belly-up. My money's on various western animation studios purchasing rights to a few animes each. Still, there's always the chance that no-one will be interested and American adults will be spared the horrible trauma of their beloved childrens shows being remade for American children.

I bet that either some lesser conglomerate will take over or the bid will be passed up. Honestly, in this economy, I don't think too many entrepreneurs will be interested in anything that isn't going to enhance their prestige greatly, and methinks not too many people would be impressed when someone starts name-dropping the new redub station they acquired.