God's Little Problem

I'm gonna go on a tangent here, but I've never understood the concept of Beasts or Creatures that can stand up to a God in Felarya. Aren't Gods, you know, Omnipotent, possessing powers and knowledge beyond mortal or even angelic/demonic grasp and comprehension? I guess you could get away with the Guardians since they're more or less Gods, at least in my eyes they are, but the creatures guarding Trejals can stand up to a God. How does that work? If they were created by the hands of a God or other creator, how can they be on par or above the God itself? Doesn't it sound like a recipe for disaster? You are the creator of the universe and you create a being as powerful as you are, not caring about the potential that said creature can usurp and murder you.

I'm gonna give Karbo the benefit of the doubt that a God's power vary depending on the amount of worshippers in certain universes, worlds, dimensions, etc. However, this does bring an issue. If they are weaker than a God in certain areas, which I guess is where those Beasts come into play, then they're not really Gods anymore since they are so much weaker. Furthermore, a creature that can stand up to a God, unless it's some form of cosmic entity if you follow comic books logic, is very high on the overpowered tiers. God Mode is named that way for a reason.

So, how can those creatures stand up to the forgers of the laws governing the universe? Who created them? Why are they more powerful than the creator itself? How can they fight ethereal beings without being ethereal themselves? If they're such a threat to Gods, why haven't they intervened yet? What's preventing creatures as powerful as them from overwhelming their domain?

Do you know of the Slayer's universe? Where a human can match a god by calling upon the power of another god?


I would say that 'gods' in Felarya are much akin to them. Remember that most things on the wiki are written from the standpoint of humanity's viewpoint, not from that of the other creatures that actually inhabit Felarya. And no, you're confusing words here. God (as in the monotheistic religion types) is an omnipotent presence that created everything and has unlimited power and jurisdiction over all. Gods (as in polytheistic religion types) are powerful beings that are worshiped because of their power. They do not however possess the ability to create or destroy everything at once - though to someone far weaker than them they could give this illusion of ability. You need not be a 'God' to be godly.



It has been said that there are multiple 'Heaven' and 'Hell' jurisdictions, and to me this is merely a misnomer of convenience. They are simply other dimensions where the creatures inhabiting them can be described as heavenly or demonic by outsiders experiencing them. Angels can behave dastardly and there are demons that behave altruistically in the Felarya universe.



I fail to follow this logic of 'weaker' gods. In almost all the polytheistic religions, there are levels of godliness and these levels are capable of existing despite the balance of power. As Karbo himself points out, he prefers his universe to be based around intelligence and character action, not incredible powers that simply end conflict. Additionally, in the Felarya universe you would essentially be combining polytheistic religions - imagine a Norse deity encountering one from the Prose/Poetic Edda... the interaction would not be so one sided, yet each member in their own right is a 'god'.



Attacking this from a monotheistic point of view is simply the wrong approach. If you meant to do so in another way please endeavor to explain further, as from what I read of your post it seems to me as you're taking this from that viewpoint.

First and foremost, yes, I've watched The Slayers and, as you pointed out, they had to call the power of a God to kill another one, meaning that it was technically the God's power who did the job and not the mortal itself.

Second, I am not attacking it. I am atheist and I am doing an analysis of all of this from my own point of view of fantasy elements.

Third, I've NEVER said that Gods should be allowed to run rampant and blow shit up as they please. You just put those words in my mouth.

Fourth, This whole concept of "beings that can stand up to a God" is another failure of vagueness. I know you like some personal interpretations, but this is in the wiki where it should be neutral and not POV. The whole concept of a creature that can stand up to a deity can be interpreted in different fashions. It could be interpreted as beings so outrageously powerful that they are omnipotent too. It can be interpreted as being on par with angels and demons since, as you said, they are powerful beings that give the feeble mortal mind the illusion that they can do anything.

Fifth, everytime I look at the wiki, most Gods are implied as monotheistic Gods.

If you do not want words put into your mouth, stop leaving it open for interpretation. Moreover, I never said you were religious - just that your argument is that of a monotheistic diatribe.


These powerful, omnipotent beings you're defining as 'gods' are the Guardians in the Felarya universe. They are not gods, however. Standing up to a God is just fine - a god can be any level of power, and I'm sorry, but you're not going to define this as some 'you must be this height to ride this ride' level of power. The very notion is silly and is against the defining point of several religious notions. A god is what those who worship it intend for it to be. Now, if these creatures could stand up to a Guardian, see, that would be a point of contention. That was not what spurred your thread however.


To the cultists, their 'god' is a living breathing creature that walks among them. Their 'god' could be defeated or even consumed on Felarya. That does not however mean that they are not a 'god' in their own right, or that the powers they possess are not incredible. A 'god' in Felarya is defined by others - a 'guardian' in Felarya is defined by the wiki.

Fair enough. But here's something: To be seen as a God, for example, a Succubus or an Angel, could be seen as Goddesses in Felarya. However, because you pointed out that the levels of a God in Felarya is extremely varied, such as the aformentioned Succubus and Angel, to even a common Mage, the expression that the creature can stand up to a God would be erronous in itself because there would be no defined strenght to be able to stand up to one.

Your example that a God can be consummed in Felarya reinforces this notion as, if a simple human mage can be seen as a God, then that means that Nagas are creatures that can stand up to a God since they can defeat the human mage and eat it, yet they are usually much weaker than supernatural beings like Angels.

Now, I don't have a problem with the idea of "what is a God" being open to the view of a culture, nation, sect in Felarya. I like it, in fact. It makes the setting feel more realistic and very interesting. But at the same time, because of the open-ended nature of the group's view of a deity, the term "can stand up to a God" will have to be revised.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I'm gonna go on a tangent here, but I've never understood the concept of Beasts or Creatures that can stand up to a God in Felarya. Aren't Gods, you know, Omnipotent, possessing powers and knowledge beyond mortal or even angelic/demonic grasp and comprehension?

Actually no. Like aethernavale said, on that universe, the question of god is to be approached on a polytheistic angle.
And the definition of god is much broader than that. Most gods are indeed powerful beings, but some of them are not really that powerful.
The definition focus more on the fact that they are beings who get their power from being worshipped / having believers.

In fact, it's safe to assume that, on her way to power, Arale defeated a couple demons that are considered godd/goddesses in some worlds. But probably minor ones.

Well, in that case, I think the description of Trejal's bodyguards (Literal bodyguards, nyeh heh heh ) needs to be revised due to the extremely subject nature of ploytheist view. What level of powers can these bodyguards take? Can they take on minors, majors, or on very obscure ones?

It's simple. You're acting on the model of the Judeo-Christian God: all-powerful, eternal, the source of everything, refraining from interfering in mortal affairs as to preserve human free will.

Most "gods" in fiction aren't truly deities. They're simply powerful beings so full of themselves they claim divinity. Unlike the Judeo-Christian God (YHWH), their might is a matter of scale, not limitless. If Billy-Bob Joe suddenly decides he's the Hillbilly God of Felarya, and he gets a bunch of weak-minded hillbillys to go along with it, in a sense, he's a "god". But then a naga can come over and gobble him up. That naga need not be so arrogant as to claim divine status, and can overpower a "god". (Holy shit, I just used an example with a human as the arrogant one and a pred as the humble one! World is ending now!)

ZionAtriedes wrote:

It's simple. You're acting on the model of the Judeo-Christian God: all-powerful, eternal, the source of everything, refraining from interfering in mortal affairs as to preserve human free will.

Most "gods" in fiction aren't truly deities. They're simply powerful beings so full of themselves they claim divinity. Unlike the Judeo-Christian God (YHWH), their might is a matter of scale, not limitless. If Billy-Bob Joe suddenly decides he's the Hillbilly God of Felarya, and he gets a bunch of weak-minded hillbillys to go along with it, in a sense, he's a "god". But then a naga can come over and gobble him up. That naga need not be so arrogant as to claim divine status, and can overpower a "god". (Holy shit, I just used an example with a human as the arrogant one and a pred as the humble one! World is ending now!)

Read the other posts and not just the first one before you post. That way you can type something relevant to how the thread evolved. Sorry if that was rude.

I did, actually. I kinda realized the question was already answered. I was just out to kinda fill in any cracks there.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Read the other posts and not just the first one before you post. That way you can type something relevant to how the thread evolved. Sorry if that was rude.

That tone was uncalled for.
As for Trejal's lair you are a bit nitpicking here... The aim of that sentence is to convey the message that those creatures are indeed powerful, not making an actual comparison..

Well, it helps to clarify things.

Karbo wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

Read the other posts and not just the first one before you post. That way you can type something relevant to how the thread evolved. Sorry if that was rude.

That tone was uncalled for.
As for Trejal's lair you are a bit nitpicking here... The aim of that sentence is to convey the message that those creatures are indeed powerful, not making an actual comparison..

It's fine, Karbs. One has to have thick skin around here. People around these parts tend to be a bit abrasive when it comes to conversations of Felarya canon. Much like otaku. It's a testament to the success of Felarya, really.

Nitpicking can be useful, sometimes. I don't fault him for that.

Others have already touched upon the polytheistic point of gods. Heck, for a good example take a look at the Iliad: We see mortals (if often backed by divine blessings) cause injury of varying degree to multiple gods. You also have this in The Silmarillion with stuff like Melkor, though his power variance is a bit different from the Greek gods, and that is also almost more akin to Super High Ranking Angels than gods in the Silmarillion (if they are similar to the Greek / Roman / whatever "Give an aspect of some kind and much, much power).

Looking at those examples, it's somewhat easier to see how something could stand up to the divine. For instance, Ungoliant in the Silmarillion could be seen as an Eldritch Horror-type thing, and she posed a viable threat to Morgoth. It's a pretty common theme, having something post-existence (or was Ungoliant even pre-existence?) but pre-order that is dangerous to the divine and best left undisturbed.

Does anyone else follow the god / God distinction? While I'm not sure of the validity of such, I had been taught when younger that "God" referred to Mr. Omnipotent Chap from the big three, but "god" was a reference to any in general. Of course, at the front of a sentence it'd still be "God", but that's due to forced capitalization (sort of like how capitalizing "red" at the start of a sentence doesn't mean you're talking about someone named Red).

I'm not quite sure I agree with Zion's "claim divinity" mindset, unless he's referring to obvious mortals going "I have become like a god unto men!" people.

This is usually why I avoid such matters, to avoid said confusion unless it's absolutely necessary to the structure of the story.

But yeah, the clarification on these beasts does help Karbo. Thanks.

Malahite wrote:

I'm not quite sure I agree with Zion's "claim divinity" mindset, unless he's referring to obvious mortals going "I have become like a god unto men!" people.

What about Kallisti?

Malahite wrote:

Others have already touched upon the polytheistic point of gods. Heck, for a good example take a look at the Iliad: We see mortals (if often backed by divine blessings) cause injury of varying degree to multiple gods. You also have this in The Silmarillion with stuff like Melkor, though his power variance is a bit different from the Greek gods, and that is also almost more akin to Super High Ranking Angels than gods in the Silmarillion (if they are similar to the Greek / Roman / whatever "Give an aspect of some kind and much, much power).

Looking at those examples, it's somewhat easier to see how something could stand up to the divine. For instance, Ungoliant in the Silmarillion could be seen as an Eldritch Horror-type thing, and she posed a viable threat to Morgoth. It's a pretty common theme, having something post-existence (or was Ungoliant even pre-existence?) but pre-order that is dangerous to the divine and best left undisturbed.

This is interesting, because as you said, the Valar are more like Super High Rank Angels+ than gods, however Eä does have a God, called Eru Ilúvatar. But he doesn't seem to do much.
I don't know if it's canon, but wasn't it discussed somewhere that the gods of the various religions of Felaryya (OF Felarya, not ones that came from other worlds) are angels and demons that take the role of gods to mortals and gain power the more followers they have? Of course this then begs the question, do they actually answer prayers, especially when one of their own is asking for power against an enemy cult.

Malahite wrote:

Does anyone else follow the god / God distinction? While I'm not sure of the validity of such, I had been taught when younger that "God" referred to Mr. Omnipotent Chap from the big three, but "god" was a reference to any in general. Of course, at the front of a sentence it'd still be "God", but that's due to forced capitalization (sort of like how capitalizing "red" at the start of a sentence doesn't mean you're talking about someone named Red).

Yes, I do. I feel that it stops a bit of confusion.