I Miss Fish

Well it also have some implications like: We only accept good standards. Even if you're a nice guy, if you're not good enough, get your ass out of here.

Sean Okotami wrote:

Well it also have some implications like: We only accept good standards. Even if you're a nice guy, if you're not good enough, get your ass out of here.

That sounds about right. Niceness is not a substitute for competence.

He can still have good ideas. People like noobs are people that need to get out. People that are newbs are those you need to help. You need some niceness. It may be a nest of competent people, if it's still a nest of assholes, nobody will want to go there.

Sean Okotami wrote:

He can still have good ideas. People like noobs are people that need to get out. People that are newbs are those you need to help. You need some niceness. It may be a nest of competent people, if it's still a nest of assholes, nobody will want to go there.

Who cares, as long as you have competent people?

Militant-Prey wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

He can still have good ideas. People like noobs are people that need to get out. People that are newbs are those you need to help. You need some niceness. It may be a nest of competent people, if it's still a nest of assholes, nobody will want to go there.

Who cares, as long as you have competent people?

Competence is not a substitute for pleasantness.

A competent asshole is still an asshole. I admit that it does account for something, but not everything.

I don't mind bluntness as long as people understand the way their comments will be perceived, whether the perception is just or not. Sometimes we need to err on the safe side. I don't know anything about /Fish/ so I won't pretend to miss him. He did come up with an idea (the Pegasai) that I wanted to get his permission to use though. In that way, is absence affects me.

Good luck /Fish/

Indeed. Who would want to join a place where everyone, while competent, just flame each other all the time?

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Militant-Prey wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

He can still have good ideas. People like noobs are people that need to get out. People that are newbs are those you need to help. You need some niceness. It may be a nest of competent people, if it's still a nest of assholes, nobody will want to go there.

Who cares, as long as you have competent people?

Competence is not a substitute for pleasantness.

A competent asshole is still an asshole. I admit that it does account for something, but not everything.

I'll take a competent asshole over an incompetent nice guy. I honestly don't care about pleasantness.

Militant-Prey wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Militant-Prey wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

He can still have good ideas. People like noobs are people that need to get out. People that are newbs are those you need to help. You need some niceness. It may be a nest of competent people, if it's still a nest of assholes, nobody will want to go there.

Who cares, as long as you have competent people?

Competence is not a substitute for pleasantness.

A competent asshole is still an asshole. I admit that it does account for something, but not everything.

I'll take a competent asshole over an incompetent nice guy. I honestly don't care about pleasantness.

Then that is where you and I differ. It's unavoidable; people have differences. That's what real tolerance is about: moving past petty differences, not accepting idiocy. There's a difference between being tolerant and having low standards. However, I think it's also important to mention that we'll all mess up once in a while, so we should keep our intolerance of mistakes at a realistic level. I mean, judging someone for one mistake is hardly fair when you go around and make an equally stupid mistake yourself. And that's gonna happen. You can speak of incompetence, but that's really a matter of standards. Depending on the beholder, any person could be judged incompetent, so it's crucial to remember that when you're the one setting the standards. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" isn't just religious mumbo-jumbo, it's a pretty logical assertion. If you say that a mistake should be punished, prepare for equal punishment when you yourself err. There's a line between forgiveness and having no standards.

Frankly, I don't understand why we can't ask for a competent nice guy. That's not even a very high standard.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Militant-Prey wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Militant-Prey wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

He can still have good ideas. People like noobs are people that need to get out. People that are newbs are those you need to help. You need some niceness. It may be a nest of competent people, if it's still a nest of assholes, nobody will want to go there.

Who cares, as long as you have competent people?

Competence is not a substitute for pleasantness.

A competent asshole is still an asshole. I admit that it does account for something, but not everything.

I'll take a competent asshole over an incompetent nice guy. I honestly don't care about pleasantness.

Then that is where you and I differ.

Frankly, I don't understand why we can't ask for a competent nice guy. Didn't you yourself talk about setting high standards? I suppose that could go for personality as well as skill.

And I'm all about raw skill. That's what I want to see in this world more. No more niceness. Just raw, unadulterated skill.

http://erogg.deviantart.com/
http://felarya.aethernavale.net/
'Sup?

Militant-Prey wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Militant-Prey wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

He can still have good ideas. People like noobs are people that need to get out. People that are newbs are those you need to help. You need some niceness. It may be a nest of competent people, if it's still a nest of assholes, nobody will want to go there.

Who cares, as long as you have competent people?

Competence is not a substitute for pleasantness.

A competent asshole is still an asshole. I admit that it does account for something, but not everything.

I'll take a competent asshole over an incompetent nice guy. I honestly don't care about pleasantness.

I agree wholeheartedly. Anyways, if there is less incompetence, things tend to run smoother anyways.

I honestly prefer friendliness over competence, but those who are considered incompetent are often... unfriendly towards critics? See every attempt to help polish as a personal attack? I think friendliness and incompetence are mutually exclusive.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

Militant-Prey wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Militant-Prey wrote:

Sean Okotami wrote:

He can still have good ideas. People like noobs are people that need to get out. People that are newbs are those you need to help. You need some niceness. It may be a nest of competent people, if it's still a nest of assholes, nobody will want to go there.

Who cares, as long as you have competent people?

Competence is not a substitute for pleasantness.

A competent asshole is still an asshole. I admit that it does account for something, but not everything.

I'll take a competent asshole over an incompetent nice guy. I honestly don't care about pleasantness.

I agree wholeheartedly. Anyways, if there is less incompetence, things tend to run smoother anyways.

Exactly. So it all washes out.

To behonest there is no right or worng answer concerning the issue, however it needs to opperate on a sliding scale system, the variable being the size of the community, the smaller and closer the community the more blunt I suppose you can be; the larger the community less so without arguments starting; afterall you atract more flies with honey than with viniger.

As for my view on Fish, he was a cog in the machine and his critique did help people, yes he was blunt but that didn't mean he wasn't supportive in his own way.

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

To behonest there is no right or worng answer concerning the issue, however it needs to opperate on a sliding scale system, the variable being the size of the community, the smaller and closer the community the more blunt I suppose you can be; the larger the community less so without arguments starting; afterall you atract more flies with honey than with viniger.

As for my view on Fish, he was a cog in the machine and his critique did help people, yes he was blunt but that didn't mean he wasn't supportive in his own way.

Why does a community have to grow? Growth for it's own sake is cancerous.

Militant-Prey wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

To behonest there is no right or worng answer concerning the issue, however it needs to opperate on a sliding scale system, the variable being the size of the community, the smaller and closer the community the more blunt I suppose you can be; the larger the community less so without arguments starting; afterall you atract more flies with honey than with viniger.

As for my view on Fish, he was a cog in the machine and his critique did help people, yes he was blunt but that didn't mean he wasn't supportive in his own way.

Why does a community have to grow? Growth for it's own sake is cancerous.

Why should it not? Growth allows new ideas to flurish as new people introduce them, you're realitivly new for example how whould you feel if the community stopped you from joining because it 'thought growth was cancerous.'

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

Militant-Prey wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

To behonest there is no right or worng answer concerning the issue, however it needs to opperate on a sliding scale system, the variable being the size of the community, the smaller and closer the community the more blunt I suppose you can be; the larger the community less so without arguments starting; afterall you atract more flies with honey than with viniger.

As for my view on Fish, he was a cog in the machine and his critique did help people, yes he was blunt but that didn't mean he wasn't supportive in his own way.

Why does a community have to grow? Growth for it's own sake is cancerous.

Why should it not? Growth allows new ideas to flurish as new people introduce them, you're realitivly new for example how whould you feel if the community stopped you from joining because it 'thought growth was cancerous.'

I'm not new at all. I was Siafu789 back in the day.

So you are, still didn't really answer my question however. New people are needed to help develop new ideas otherwise if you had a limited number of contributers the ideas would get stale and repeat themselves; the community would not progress and people would get bored and leave. I'm not saying we sould let every idiot through the door; in situations like this people like Fish are needed to keep standards; as I said cog in the machine.

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

So you are, still didn't really answer my question however. New people are needed to help develop new ideas otherwise if you had a limited number of contributers the ideas would get stale and repeat themselves; the community would not progress and people would get bored and leave. I'm not saying we sould let every idiot through the door; in situations like this people like Fish are needed to keep standards; as I said cog in the machine.

Not to say we don't have some great new contributers here, but how does someone being "new" make their ideas less "stale?". By that logic Karbo
would have the stalest ideas of all and that's not true. People arrive all the time with tons of cliché baggage. I think that incompetent people allowed to run rampant are more of a deterrent to solid members. The larger the community, the more ideas, so the more bluntness needed to help cut stuff in the early stages.

What is most concerning to me is the idea that its somehow a taboo to openly dislike something - that we must all be nice. I think that opinions are a vital thing to have, even blunt ones.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

So you are, still didn't really answer my question however. New people are needed to help develop new ideas otherwise if you had a limited number of contributers the ideas would get stale and repeat themselves; the community would not progress and people would get bored and leave. I'm not saying we sould let every idiot through the door; in situations like this people like Fish are needed to keep standards; as I said cog in the machine.

Not to say we don't have some great new contributers here, but how does someone being "new" make their ideas less "stale?". By that logic Karbo
would have the stalest ideas of all and that's not true. People arrive all the time with tons of cliché baggage. I think that incompetent people allowed to run rampant are more of a deterrent to solid members. The larger the community, the more ideas, so the more bluntness needed to help cut stuff in the early stages.

What is most concerning to me is the idea that its somehow a taboo to openly dislike something - that we must all be nice. I think that opinions are a vital thing to have, even blunt ones.

My views exactly, this is the problem with todays world in general; a taboo than can be broken easily, just by openly disliking something. If they can't take criticism, it's their loss.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

So you are, still didn't really answer my question however. New people are needed to help develop new ideas otherwise if you had a limited number of contributers the ideas would get stale and repeat themselves; the community would not progress and people would get bored and leave. I'm not saying we sould let every idiot through the door; in situations like this people like Fish are needed to keep standards; as I said cog in the machine.

Not to say we don't have some great new contributers here, but how does someone being "new" make their ideas less "stale?". By that logic Karbo
would have the stalest ideas of all and that's not true. People arrive all the time with tons of cliché baggage. I think that incompetent people allowed to run rampant are more of a deterrent to solid members. The larger the community, the more ideas, so the more bluntness needed to help cut stuff in the early stages.

What is most concerning to me is the idea that its somehow a taboo to openly dislike something - that we must all be nice. I think that opinions are a vital thing to have, even blunt ones.

I agree, Fish broke that taboo and it needs to be broken more oftern, when all you get is pleasentries ideas don't develop; it is why Fish was rather vitial to the community.

As for ideas going stale I was refering to a much longer time frame; longer than the Felaryan community has existed; that and we shouldn't just stop allowing people to join, people build off the ideas of others which in a way helps ideas stay fresh.

"A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down," if I remember correctly. Not that I live or die by the logic, but it does seem to stand a greater chance of producing the desired change after a critique.

Let's put a little analogy: Everyone here is competent, but everyone here is also a complete scum who must flame each other every three seconds. Sure, everyone is skilled, but eventually, people will look at each other, see the one considered the "least competent", AKA the one they like his work the least, and completely destroy him and drive him away. This is nothing a but a vicious circle. True, we mustn't be afraid to voice our opinions, I myself abide to that thought. However, if someone can't see that someone has potential and needs some help at the start, and refuse to offer said help, then you're doing something wrong: you're not giving the chance of helping an inexperienced contributor gain experience and become competent. Honestly, that whole "Mercy" virtue is so grossely exagerated. Someone being merciful isn't someone who keeps giving someone chances, no matter how many times or how badly he fucks up. Someone merciful here is someone who will help someone who needs support so he becomes a good contributor. Nobody starts good, you only become good. Competence is good, but you can't rely ONLY on competence. By the very core of your logic, it's fine that I spam your inbox. As long as I'm competent, it's perfectly okay to be a troll.

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

I agree, Fish broke that taboo and it needs to be broken more oftern, when all you get is pleasentries ideas don't develop; it is why Fish was rather vitial to the community.

Okay, look. I get people here REALLY liked Fish, but he was NOT vital to the community.

There was nothing spectacular he did. He just did his job as a mod. And even then, he didn't do it THAT great.

Yes, it's nice when someone is blunt and right to the point, but there's a point where you can only be so rude to others before you become a complete jackass. Fish may have helped the community, but I'm getting REALLY sick of all this ass kissing.

Please stop putting him on a pedestal for things he was SUPPOSED to do.