what magic is best against what preds?

this may seem silly, but when mages are adventuring, what kind of magic do they usually use should they encounter a giant pred? for this scenario, let's say that the mage is trying to fight/drive off/kill a pred, impractical though that is. what magic do you think they could use that would provide them their best chance? discuss.

TryMeIke wrote:

this may seem silly, but when mages are adventuring, what kind of magic do they usually use should they encounter a giant pred? for this scenario, let's say that the mage is trying to fight/drive off/kill a pred, impractical though that is. what magic do you think they could use that would provide them their best chance? discuss.

If the mage doesn't use his intelligence,knowledges,wisdom and experience no matter the magic he mastered he will meet a tragic fate.

now thats a completely unhelpful response. suppose the mage is using his/her wits, wisdom and what not to fight. what magic would aid them?

I don't find that response unhelpful, but just adding something else to the scenario: you can be a powerful magician, but you need more than just magic to fight a predator. Also, there are more factors that enter in this, like the kind of predator the magician is facing. That is very important, as it might determine their resistance to some kind of magic or even which magic they can use to attack the enemy or to defend themselves.

Your scenario, in best of cases, is very vague. If you want to make something general, I guess talking about magic users isn't the best thing. You have to be a bit more specific, because, for example, when facing a dryad the best is to scare them with fire - be it magical or not -, but take in account dryads can use their own magic for self-defense and if the magician isn't powerful enough, they can counter him/her - even if the magician uses fire magic, but if his/her power isn't enough to scare the dryad, bad move.

Also, I'm pretty sure that even in Felarya, mages know the best is to avoid being detected. Magic could be just for minor encounters or as a last resort, not as the first one if other more sensible options are available.

I know. but I was asking for what a mage in general should do if they need to fight a pred and can't hide. surely there must be something they can do. I'm really not one for believing the constant "Derp, humans are useless and helpless." most adventurers seem to have. there has to be at least some strategies for various preds mages use to get away.

EDIT: I'm going for the sentient hybrids when I talk about preds. nagas, dridders, fairies, Exc. not stuff like tourions or kensha beasts. seem easier to understand?

EDIT TWO: I know people will say humans are not useless and helpless, and that the best adventurers never encounter giant preds, but what kind of tactics do they use when they do everything right, and yet still encounter a pred? what contingincies do adventurers and mages use just in case their avoiding fails, cuz that does happen, how do they prepare for it?

TryMeIke wrote:

I know. but I was asking for what a mage in general should do if they need to fight a pred and can't hide. surely there must be something they can do. I'm really not one for believing the constant "Derp, humans are useless and helpless." most adventurers seem to have. there has to be at least some strategies for various preds mages use to get away.

Its not a simple thing. Lots of different factors come into play.

TYPE OF PRED: This is important. Different predators have different strengths, weaknesses, movement speed, etc. They are also affected by terrain differently. Nagas, for example, are really good on rough, uneven terrain. If a Giant Elf/Giantess/Giant-sized Fairy tried to move too quickly through that same terrain, she risks twisting her ankle or worse.

Different preds also have different senses. For example, Nagas and Fairies are able to sense magical fields (although Nagas are best at it). If a mage starts using his magic around them, he/she will light up like a candle on their magic sense. This makes magical sneak-attacks tougher on Nagas than on, say, a Dridder. The Naga would be able to sense the mage that launched it, a Dridder would not. The best thing a mage could do when facing a Naga would be to completely power down, try to mask his/her magical field, and hide.

TYPE OF MAGE: There are also many, many different types of mages, and types of magic.

A mage who specializes in illusion magic, for example, wouldn't even need to fight at all. He/She could just hide (although, Im not sure how that works against preds that have the magical sense. See above point about how pred type comes into play).

Different magic types have different uses and different requirements. In general though, hiding is your best option. Very few humans have the raw magical power to go toe-to-toe with a pred, and even those that do usually need years of focused training to do that.

TERRAIN: This is perhaps the most important factor.

Are there hiding places? Small places a pred couldn't get to if you got there first? What is the ground like? Is it smooth, rough? Will the pred have freedom of movement? Could the pred actually reach her full speed?

Terrain is also very important if you practice some schools of magic. Someone who specializes in water magic isn't going to be able to do much without a water source, for example.

If avoidance fails, and you can't find a way to get away and hide, 90% of people are dead (not accounting for those who manage to befriend preds, since there's no solid figure for the frequency of that). Unless you have freakishly powerful magic, and/or access to military grade weapons, there's just nothing you can do to hurt a pred.

Preds are just too fast, and too big. They move at over 40 miles per hour in a normal walk. The best way to survive is to pay attention to your surroundings, and try to keep from being spotted. If you absolutely have to fight a pred, you need a plan. Just running at them head-on is suicide. They are bigger, stronger and faster than you. You need to have a plan, and a good one if you want to have a chance.

The previous responders have a point. Lets also not forget everybody views magic differently. Like me, my views are differnt than yours I just see magic as a natural extension of themselves (like element bending or your general superpower) and what type of magic they use is as unique as themselves.

but of course my view wont always come into existance from others (like you and your characters huge doomsday spells, no offence)

and it also depends on the predator you face. fire may be a good thing against say a plant or ice based predator, sound or fire against insects, ect, ect. to each his own.

a topic like that dosent always go well because the responses will be all over the place and wont go in a specific direction ^^;

[/quote]Basically, if a human gets caught out in the open by a pred, and has no escape route, they are usually screwed. Preds are just too fast, and too big. They move at over 40 miles per hour in a normal walk. The best way to survive is to pay attention to your surroundings, and try to keep from being spotted. If you absolutely have to fight a pred, you need a plan. Just running at them head-on is suicide. They are bigger, stronger and faster than you. You need to have a plan, and a good one if you want to have a chance.[/quote]

my problem has to do with this part. what is the plan when they have no other choice? it seems preds are so almighty and whatnot humans really are worth no more then food. and I have an issue with that.

TryMeIke wrote:

Basically, if a human gets caught out in the open by a pred, and has no escape route, they are usually screwed. Preds are just too fast, and too big. They move at over 40 miles per hour in a normal walk. The best way to survive is to pay attention to your surroundings, and try to keep from being spotted. If you absolutely have to fight a pred, you need a plan. Just running at them head-on is suicide. They are bigger, stronger and faster than you. You need to have a plan, and a good one if you want to have a chance.[/quote]

my problem has to do with this part. what is the plan when they have no other choice? it seems preds are so almighty and whatnot humans really are worth no more then food. and I have an issue with that.[/quote]

But that is what this setting is. In a one on one fight, Goliath eats david. In that situation, you have to rely on diplomacy, luck, and guile. Pure force won't work. A fireball would be better as a distraction than an attack, for example. War mages are many times less useful in Felarya than utility mages. Better to be able to meld with stone than to hurl boulders.

TryMeIke wrote:

my problem has to do with this part. what is the plan when they have no other choice? it seems preds are so almighty and whatnot humans really are worth no more then food. and I have an issue with that.

but that dosent always mean the prey is almost invincible either (like yours). people overuse the vore aspect of felarya, it dosent always have to be an issue

Silent_eric wrote:

TryMeIke wrote:

Basically, if a human gets caught out in the open by a pred, and has no escape route, they are usually screwed. Preds are just too fast, and too big. They move at over 40 miles per hour in a normal walk. The best way to survive is to pay attention to your surroundings, and try to keep from being spotted. If you absolutely have to fight a pred, you need a plan. Just running at them head-on is suicide. They are bigger, stronger and faster than you. You need to have a plan, and a good one if you want to have a chance.

But that is what this setting is. In a one on one fight, Goliath eats david. In that situation, you have to rely on diplomacy, luck, and guile. Pure force won't work. A fireball would be better as a distraction than an attack, for example. War mages are many times less useful in Felarya than utility mages. Better to be able to meld with stone than to hurl boulders.[/quote]

so then, what is the plan should a mage ever have no choice but to fight a pred? any workable strategies for driving off crisis, elle, and other man-eaters should push come to shove? if none are around, then I just don't see anything that could be called balance here.

TryMeIke wrote:

Quote :

Basically, if a human gets caught out in the open by a pred, and has no escape route, they are usually screwed. Preds are just too fast, and too big. They move at over 40 miles per hour in a normal walk. The best way to survive is to pay attention to your surroundings, and try to keep from being spotted. If you absolutely have to fight a pred, you need a plan. Just running at them head-on is suicide. They are bigger, stronger and faster than you. You need to have a plan, and a good one if you want to have a chance.

my problem has to do with this part. what is the plan when they have no other choice? it seems preds are so almighty and whatnot humans really are worth no more then food. and I have an issue with that.

I never said preds are almighty, and humans are only good as food. Have you read my stories? Looked at my Isolon Fist thread? I believe preds are perfectly able to be hurt, and I think it is possible for humans to fight back with the right weapons, skills and tactics.

It isn't easy though.

The average hybrid predator is 100ft tall or more, and weighs well over 100 tons (Nagas, Dridders, Centaurs, Mermaids and other tauric creatures are easily pushing at least 300 tons in weight).
They can move at 40 mph (64 km/h) in a comfortable work, and are capable of bursts of speed well in excess of 100 mph. (That isn't even counting Harpies, who fly as fast as WWII fighter planes)
Assuming the average pred could lift at least half of its body weight (which most any person can do), they are perfectly capable of picking up and tossing an M-1 Abrams Main Battle Tank.

Their skin can only be pierced by assault rifle-sized weapons and up, and you don't even start causing significant pain until belt-fed machineguns. They only easy way for a lone human to maim or kill a predator is with an anti-vehicle rocket.

The giant hybrids of Felarya are many times larger, stronger and faster than any animal that has ever existed on Earth, and on top of that, they are capable of the same intelligence as a human, along with enhanced senses and access to magic.

They are quite fearsome.

A human, on average is roughly as long as one of their fingers, and would actually weigh a decent amount less, since humans aren't the same length all the way through. Imagine something the size of your finger trying to hurt you, and you have an idea of how difficult it is.

That's why avoidance is, by far, the best option for adventurers. If they get caught, they are more than likely screwed. a few members of the party may get away, but at least one person is almost surely going to die from the encounter.

If you want to have a reliable shot at taking on a pred, you need military-grade weaponry. Preferrably lots of explosives and anti-vehicle weapons.

If you want to use magic, you need to be freakishly strong. That is why the Isolon Fist is so unique. If the magic power of an average mage is represented by a firecracker, the magic of an Isolon Fist Battlemage would be comparable to a 2000lb bomb. They are individuals with extreme magical power, who have been trained to release massive amounts of it in a controlled manner.

It isn't that humans are worthless. I like humans. Some of my best friends are humans. But, when you compare a human, to a 100+ foot tall man-eating half-animal monster...well, the human just doesn't stack up favorably without extreme magical abilities, or some very powerful weapons.

EDIT: It isn't about "balance". This isn't a videogame. Nature isn't balanced, it is harsh, lop-sided and unfair.

The closest things humans have to balancing factors are their large numbers, ability to hide in small spaces a pred can't get to, and in some cases powerful weapons and magic.

rcs619 wrote:

TryMeIke wrote:

Quote :

Basically, if a human gets caught out in the open by a pred, and has no escape route, they are usually screwed. Preds are just too fast, and too big. They move at over 40 miles per hour in a normal walk. The best way to survive is to pay attention to your surroundings, and try to keep from being spotted. If you absolutely have to fight a pred, you need a plan. Just running at them head-on is suicide. They are bigger, stronger and faster than you. You need to have a plan, and a good one if you want to have a chance.

my problem has to do with this part. what is the plan when they have no other choice? it seems preds are so almighty and whatnot humans really are worth no more then food. and I have an issue with that.

I never said preds are almighty, and humans are only good as food. Have you read my stories? Looked at my Isolon Fist thread? I believe preds are perfectly able to be hurt, and I think it is possible for humans to fight back with the right weapons, skills and tactics.

It isn't easy though.

The average hybrid predator is 100ft tall or more, and weighs well over 100 tons (Nagas, Dridders, Centaurs, Mermaids and other tauric creatures are easily pushing at least 300 tons in weight).
They can move at 40 mph (64 km/h) in a comfortable work, and are capable of bursts of speed well in excess of 100 mph. (That isn't even counting Harpies, who fly as fast as WWII fighter planes)
Assuming the average pred could lift at least half of its body weight (which most any person can do), they are perfectly capable of picking up and tossing an M-1 Abrams Main Battle Tank.

Their skin can only be pierced by assault rifle-sized weapons and up, and you don't even start causing significant pain until belt-fed machineguns. They only easy way for a lone human to maim or kill a predator is with an anti-vehicle rocket.

The giant hybrids of Felarya are many times larger, stronger and faster than any animal that has ever existed on Earth, and on top of that, they are capable of the same intelligence as a human, along with enhanced senses and access to magic.

They are quite fearsome.

A human, on average is roughly as long as one of their fingers, and would actually weigh a decent amount less, since humans aren't the same length all the way through. Imagine something the size of your finger trying to hurt you, and you have an idea of how difficult it is.

That's why avoidance is, by far, the best option for adventurers. If they get caught, they are more than likely screwed. a few members of the party may get away, but at least one person is almost surely going to die from the encounter.

If you want to have a reliable shot at taking on a pred, you need military-grade weaponry. Preferrably lots of explosives and anti-vehicle weapons.

If you want to use magic, you need to be freakishly strong. That is why the Isolon Fist is so unique. If the magic power of an average mage is represented by a firecracker, the magic of an Isolon Fist Battlemage would be comparable to a 2000lb bomb. They are individuals with extreme magical power, who have been trained to release massive amounts of it in a controlled manner.

It isn't that humans are worthless. I like humans. Some of my best friends are humans. But, when you compare a human, to a 100+ foot tall man-eating half-animal monster...well, the human just doesn't stack up favorably without extreme magical abilities, or some very powerful weapons.

perhaps, but everyone loves to bash humans with enough magical abilities to fight a pred as "ohmygosh! mary stu! destroy!" when logiclly, there should be at least a FEW who are capable, not many, but some.

I will be mean:

stop starting threads like that for nothing. We have a General Questions and Asks thread, use it.

Krisexy26 wrote:

I will be mean:

stop starting threads like that for nothing. We have a General Questions and Asks thread, use it.

\

I looked up said thread, did you notice it happened to be locked? how can you use it then? hm?

Quote :

perhaps, but everyone loves to bash humans with enough magical abilities to fight a pred as "ohmygosh! mary stu! destroy!" when logiclly, there should be at least a FEW who are capable, not many, but some.

It depends how its done.

Even the Isolon Fist Battlemages can't just go around killing predators. Taking on one is a very dangerous operation. It requires both mages to work in tandem, along with the support from the non-magical soldiers that support them. Bringing down a pred is a team effort.

A single mage blowing away a pred with a magical energy blast...well, its not only uninteresting, but also overpowered.

It is about how the confrontation is handled, more than anything.

rcs619 wrote:

Quote :

perhaps, but everyone loves to bash humans with enough magical abilities to fight a pred as "ohmygosh! mary stu! destroy!" when logiclly, there should be at least a FEW who are capable, not many, but some.

It depends how its done.

Even the Isolon Fist Battlemages can't just go around killing predators. Taking on one is a very dangerous operation. It requires both mages to work in tandem, along with the support from the non-magical soldiers that support them. Bringing down a pred is a team effort.

A single mage blowing away a pred with a magical energy blast...well, its not only uninteresting, but also overpowered.

It is about how the confrontation is handled, more than anything.

so then, if it's a single mage who fights evenly and barely wins, does that count as acceptable?

It is possible for a lone human to defeat a giant (it doesn't necessitate that the giant is killed), but the chances of such a thing happening are a crapshoot to say the least.

Sean Okotami wrote:

It is possible for a lone human to defeat a giant (it doesn't necessitate that the giant is killed), but the chances of such a thing happening are a crapshoot to say the least.

thank you. so that means it's acceptable. so long as it's only a single person who gets lucky, not a group. although, a group of fairly potent individuals should be able to do it with skill, not just luck.

No, it means such chances of happening are so low it would practically mean that everything, and I mean everything, worked in the adventurer's favor. Such thing would be ridiculously to pull out convincingly that it's not advised to do it. Just to clarify, Felarya isn't Dragonball Z, or Yu Yu Hakusho, or any series where powerful characters are plentiful. Yes, you can meet an incredibly powerful mage once in a while, but any character who get out of their problem by blowing everything up is uninteresting to read, since every problem is a foregone conclusion.

Mages are not infallible. Sure, they are powerful, but they can't do literally everything. Depending on their method of spellcasting, as described here, will have little weaknesses that can put them in serious danger. For example, the Rule-based mage, the most common type, needs some preparation to cast their spells, especially powerful one, and while doing this, he's a sitting duck. Primordial mages can do a lot, but their powers are left at the mercy of the environment and they will be in danger if the zone they enter has a smaller concentration of magic than anywhere else. This is why you will see more than one adventurer. Whatever one lacks, the other one can cover than weakness, and vice versa. Plus, being numerous has the innate advantage of making things more difficult to a giant, as most can only focus their attention on one at a time, since giants rarely hunt in groups. While the giant is busy going after one member of the group, its attention is diverted from the others, who can freely attack her. Being alone means that you will be her entire source of attention, barring an ambush from the fauna.

Having a lone adventurer being able to fell a giant may sound cool, but that doesn't mean that it's credible. Most example are blatantly showing off their character as some "badass", given ridiculous powers all so they stand a chance in the jungle. The giant hybrids are considered to be a rare encounter in the jungle and more akin to a "worst case scenario". It is much more interesting to see how someone, or a group of people, manage to avoid being swallowed whole and alive, not by brute forcing their way written in an haphazard manner, but by showcasing ingenuity and perseverance in the face of seemingly impossible odds.

so, your saying the group who works togther is the better choice for writing the story? got it.

It isn't about writing stories or drawing pictures, it's about using logic in a setting like this one, where you have to outsmart the predator in order to survive. And working in groups just helps, as they can use their strengths and hide their weaknesses in order to get away with their lives - and sometimes, sacrifices are needed.

Other posters have already stated a lot of reasons on why mages aren't godlike and on adventurers trying to stay alive. I think there's nothing else to add...

Not to mention some predators negate magic to a great extent. Tonorions for example. I see that trait also carrying over to the bug-like tauric hybrids.

Another thing to consider is that most predators, while not portrayed as such, are actually used to hunting - so they'll rely on more than one of their senses. Illusionists would be great against something that only uses its eyes, but a lot of preds are going to be using smell and sound in addition to the rare few with other specialty senses. You might potentially catch an unsuspecting one off guard, but the advantage will be momentary.

Unless of course you luck out and find Jora or someone/thing similar. Poor Jora. Always the butt end of these discussions.