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 Another apology to the Felaryan community

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Nickonaquamagna
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PostSubject: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:03 am

Holy smokes, I'm amazed by how much attention this particular page has gotten. http://nickinamerica.deviantart.com/#/d4izmak

Granted, it has been generallyly well received, and for the most part, I think I've managed to dodge a bullet. Still, it's stirring up SOME controversy. It's having a very negative effect on some people, something I NEVER intended.

To those who are rooting for me 'cause they think I'm out to give the preds a worse name than they already have and make it clear how monstrous they are, that's not it at all. I have no agenda to change how Felarya is perceived or spread hatred for it's denizens. To those who are turned off by it and may even consider leaving the community 'cause I've made them feel guilty for fapping to whatever they feel like, I didn't mean to make you feel this way.

Maybe it's just hard for me to understand, but... I really don't see why this scene is SOOOO shocking to people. I actually made an effort to downplay it, because this is just something that happens in the setting. But you know what? I love Felarya anyway. I'm able to face such things and see the good qualities of this world and beings living in it anyway, and continue making stories that show how I see it. Karbo has said my stance on the whole thing makes my portrayal kind of unique... Like if I shared the vore fetish, or was completely against it, my work may turn out very differently, more biased, and not as intriguing. I honestly don't see how that could make my comics so special, though.

I guess all I really want to say is... I don't know why people are so shocked that someone had to balls to hint at such a thing. I mean, it's not like I actually SHOWED it happening, and it isn't even certain, just implied. KIDS GET EATEN IN FELARYA, JUST LIKE GROWNUPS. This isn't Crisis and Scarecrow, and it's nothing new for me. I don't pretend such things aren't there. I don't ignore the aspects of the setting that I don't like. I just show the world like it is from my perspective, and I'm sorry if that has a negative affect on anyone, but you have to keep in mind... My stories are completely devoid of vore. On the rare occasion that someone is eaten, it's depicted in a way that's intended to make it PURELY SCARY, and matter of factly as possible, catering to neither the vore fans nor their haters on the other side. So please, don't associate scenes like this with anything that could make the scene "taboo" because I'm not insinuating at anything even remotely sensual to anybody.

Anyhow.... I don't even know what the frak I'm talking about anymore. I am glad that most of the reception I've gotten for this has indeed been positive in some way... But seriously, this is just another vision of mine. People are making it more shocking than it actually IS.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:46 am

You know what I think? You didn't really need to apologize. You managed to show very well how dark Felarya can be, and a perfect example of what fairies were REALLY all about in ages past before Tinkerbell-ification came by. If people can't stomach the old-as-time literary element of drama and serious mood whiplash in their fantasy of giant chicks that nom people, that's not your problem at all
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:19 am

Haters gonna hate
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:12 pm

It was a little dark, but hey, that's the reality of what happens here.

It isn't glamorous, it isn't Disney. It's how Felarya works.

Spoiler:
 

Oh, and here's some advice: try not to milk children dying too much in your story. There's harsh realization, and then there's trying to be gritty and grimdark. I personally hate stories that try to tug too hard at heartstrings.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:09 pm

Cross-posted from DA:

Some people are just too sensitive.

First of all, the generally accepted official view on the matter (at least, the one we came to on the forum a while back): Children do occasionally get eaten in Felarya. It really depends on the pred though. Karbo has said that even Crisis would probably not bother eating a child, because they aren't even big enough to be a snack.

Honestly, a child getting eaten by a giant hybrid is not going to happen all that often. The hybrids aren't everywhere, and even then, the majority of them probably wouldn't bother eating a kid. Giant wildlife (kensha beasts, tonorions, and more) and carnivorous plants would be a much greater danger. They are more common, and don't have the intelligence to make a distinction between an adult human and a child.

These fairies you showed seemed to be some sort of cult, so them doing things outside the norm (like eating an entire village including the children) is probably not that unbelievable. They're a cult, not the norm for fairies everywhere.

As for my personal views, I think you handled it well. The empty crib is a powerful image, and it conveys things without needing to be too graphic. I don't think you have anything to be sorry for *thumbs up*
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:27 pm

All you should have done was slap an Ideologically Sensitive Mature Content warning on it. Because it was, as evidenced by the reactions of ideologically sensitive people.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:41 am

I looked at that page that some people have been making a big deal of... and I don't see the point in that "big deal".

This is simply one of the darker sides of a world with several shades. People just think of Felarya as something lighthearted, but it's a world of contrasts and these things can happen. Like it or not, it's a world full of dangerous, some beautiful, some hideous, but danger doesn't make a distinction when it comes to someone's age.

Some people are way too sensitive around these things and even if long ago we discussed the children topic, you can't help but to think that even if it isn't the norm, it can happen. Maybe not too often from intelligent predators, given the reasons Cliff gave, but it can happen anyways, and it'll be more often if you go for non-sentient preds.

So why apologizing for something that doesn't need to?
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:33 am

Personally I think you handled the matter perfectly, and you have nothing to apologize for...
As for if it's the "norm" or not for predators to eat children I agree with Cliff. The cuteness factor along with the individual pred's morality can play a part as well as the size too, I think... All in all it shouldn't happen very often.
But it does happen, children get killed by people on Earth all the time and for far worse reasons than food, and Felarya is suppose to be harsher than Earth, not less so...
Personally I plan on touching on the subject in my stories as well, albeit in an even more indirect manner than you did. (Actually i already kinda did... Sorta... Not really :/) It IS a tricky subject, but it's worth exploring if you want to give a story a darker, grittier, more tragic tone.

So yeah, I think you can stop apologizing now Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:55 am

I'm just going to throw my two cents on it about children being eaten. First of all, I need to open that such a thing would be excessively rare in Felarya for a number of reasons. One, any parent worth its salt would never allow a child to leave in the wild under any circumstance. Two, in the event of bad parenting, it's unlikely for giants to eat children. As morality has already been touched upon, I'm gonna go with pragmatism here. Ignoring people who just arrived in Felarya against their will, most giants will encounter humans in groups. For Opportunistic giants, a lone human isn't really something to be worth going after. A group of humans, however, is much more filling. Since any competent exploring party wouldn't let a child tag along, especially on-foot, it is more likely to find lone children, or in very small groups in the wild. Because of that and the fact that they are smaller than grown men, they're simply not worth going after.

In my opinion, the most likely scenario where children are eaten by a giant is when one or more attack a village. Let's face it, it would be awfully jarring if a giant comes to a village and devours everyone, but leave all the children alone. In fact, this would be even more cruel, since the kids would be too weak to survive on their own in the wild, which would lead them to be slowly picked off by the fauna, if something else doesn't get to them first.

Before I leave it at that, yes, I am aware of a certain albino kid who happens to be the exception to this rule.
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Malahite
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:04 pm

What I find interesting is that people are throwing a hissy about Giant Predators being implied to attack demi-human children, but I can almost promise you that if I find ten random Giant Predator character profiles with bios (non-Wiki) at least one will have been attacked as a child (or had one of their friends attacked whilst they were a child) by either another Giant Predator or a band of Human (almost always Human: Practically never Elves or Neko warbands). Heck, don't we have a Fairy character (on the Wiki, for that matter) that has exactly that as a background? Younger sister (although to be fair, no age is given, though implication is while very young) is caught by humans, tortured to death (slowly, again if I recall right), and people don't bat an eye at it.

It's also a bit odd to treat this as something that should be "ignored" since it would happen in-universe. Similar to how most adventurers don't become great heroes in Faerun but wind up stuck over some Hobgoblins fire, there is no general code-of-conduct by Predators about what they will or won't eat (at least no universal one). No, they'll never be the staple of something's diet unless it's of a very extreme sort (Ex: Nemesis that can only dream-feed off someone with a child's innocence), but neither do babies secrete a toxic substance that makes them highly toxic and doubles as anti-magic protection.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:14 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GdzbCIxkzo

But seriously... what's wrong with pred's eating kids? Why wouldn't you go after an easier target?
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:06 am

Not grim-dark enough.

Needs more hanging ripped up baby corpses.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 am

But how the hell am I supposed to masturbate to Felaryan fanart if children are getting killed?

Nah, just kidding. I kind of think that the deadliness of the world means people of all shapes, sizes, and ages get eaten or killed. It's tragic, yes, but that's kind of what Felarya is.

Maybe some predators have enough of a moral compass to avoid eating children, but that doesn't mean they're all like that. It really depends on the character.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:20 pm

Slimetoad wrote:
You know what I think? You didn't really need to apologize. You managed to show very well how dark Felarya can be, and a perfect example of what fairies were REALLY all about in ages past before Tinkerbell-ification came by. If people can't stomach the old-as-time literary element of drama and serious mood whiplash in their fantasy of giant chicks that nom people, that's not your problem at all

I agree. You handled it well, in an appropriate manner - sensitive, naturally emotional and powerful, but neither excessively melodramatic nor (of course) fetishistic. It was a legitimate presentation of one of the inevitable aspects of Felarya.

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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:22 pm

oh wow.........I feel like a real jerk after seeing this, Nick you didn't need to post this at all. If anyone I should be sorry for overreacting, the scene was powerful yes...but I let my emotions get the better of me and thought that many of the preds that I respected did what these fairies in the scene did.

I am in truth sorry for my misbehavior and all.........but I mainly just was stating my point of view on it and let my emotions get the better of me.

I in truth really like your stories and your art and have for a little bit been a supporter to some point, and I just want to say that I'm sorry that it came to this.

If anyone I should be sorry for the way I acted, I hope I can be forgiven for making such a huge mess out of things in the community.

But; I can understand why I may never be forgiven, again I'm deeply sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:28 pm

Personally, I think its a bitchy-drama happening here...

Bitchy-drama means: a lil drama that no one really cares.

Nick, please, don't apology for every bad comment you receive. If Karbo had to post a thread for each bad comment he receives, this forum would be called "Karbo' Apology Forum". Just continue what you're doing, it's perfectly fine. Also, you have a head, which means you have a brain, which means you have a mind, which means you have some kind of moral. Use that moral to do your art. Talking for myself, there's absolutely nothing "WRONG" when a kid get eaten. It's just more sad, that's it. But you have to be careful into which context your persos die.

Jeez...
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:58 pm

Oh man, I feel that things are about to get real michael-jackson-eating-popcorn.gif in here.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:59 pm

Since everyone is talking about this O__o?. If people in the community are really concerned about what predators eat kids and what not or just addressing this topic in general. I think a good solution is having something included about that topic in the Predation Tier list in the wiki.

(Taking from the wiki)

Highly Specialized: Goes out of way to hunt humanoids before other available food.

From my understanding some predators that fall under the category "highly specialized," do not eat kids? It possibly make things a bit confusing when people are talking about this kind of topic, (for example Crisis is highly specialized but doesn't eat kids)

To make things simple, I recommend that we keep the highly specialized category the way it is and for the predators that ARE highly specialized that DONT eat kids, maybe move them down to Specialized.

Specialized to Highly Specialized does seem appropriate for defining that "moral line" that we keep in our heads. To be honest a Predator that's still "specialized" can still be very voracious. Like Crisis for example, having her under the specialized category can still make sense because humanoids do make up the most of her diet.

I think those fairy's in Nicks story really shows the next step after "specialized" because they GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to hunt humanoids, age does not matter to them, young/old they are still humanoid, making them food.



I hope this can clear everything up.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:30 pm

So long story short, we're all good? Good. *Passes drinks* To friendship!
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:39 pm

parameciumkid wrote:
So long story short, we're all good? Good. *Passes drinks* To friendship!



Did somepony say friendship? Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:15 am

Claire wrote:
Highly Specialized: Goes out of way to hunt humanoids before other available food.

From my understanding some predators that fall under the category "highly specialized," do not eat kids? It possibly make things a bit confusing when people are talking about this kind of topic, (for example Crisis is highly specialized but doesn't eat kids)

To make things simple, I recommend that we keep the highly specialized category the way it is and for the predators that ARE highly specialized that DONT eat kids, maybe move them down to Specialized.

Specialized to Highly Specialized does seem appropriate for defining that "moral line" that we keep in our heads. To be honest a Predator that's still "specialized" can still be very voracious. Like Crisis for example, having her under the specialized category can still make sense because humanoids do make up the most of her diet.

I think those fairy's in Nicks story really shows the next step after "specialized" because they GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to hunt humanoids, age does not matter to them, young/old they are still humanoid, making them food.

The tiers cover pretty broad strokes. They are, at a glance, a character's general stance towards eating humanoids. It's not their stance towards eating a particular sex, it's not whether they use fair or unfair methods, or if they prefer to swiftly eat that prey or bully them. I don't think a division by the category of prey age would come across as anything but arbitrary. Surely there would be Opportunist predators that wouldn't care about age. It just happens.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:52 am

Dangit Nazo, this isn't about YOU. I've gotten other comments that, in what way or another, make me question what I'm doing. I wouldn't make a whole topic thing to get back at one guy.

Kiri and everyone who has been understanding, thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: Another apology to the Felaryan community   Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:58 pm

It was tastefully done and plot related. As you stated it was intended to be a horror story not erotic fiction. The horror element worked, especially since you didn't show it. That makes it more horrible in the reader's mind.
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