Language Barrier in Felarya

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I disagree with that because it's as if you tell the magic soil of Felarya helps you to speak other language.
Because when we born we don't know how to speak we learn how to speak.
In clear even if there is a virus which helps you the only thing it will do it's to alter our vocal cords but we will always learn to speak. In that case all the life form of Felarya will speak Laughing

Why on Earth we speak all english it's because english it's easier to lern in theory Razz

Even that there is many difference by example the english an amercian use it's different the english the british speaks due to the difference of culture.

Come back to Felarya, why the sentient Predators like naga know how to speak it's simple. In general the predator study it's prey, it learns all its habits and where it can strike ect... Like the cat plays with the mouse it's for study its reaction.

How a predator knows our language it's just because its ancestors learned from the humans their language and taught it to their descendants Laughing

Be close of your friend and even closer from your ennemy Evil laugh

Unnecessarily complex. The babel fish bores into the host's brain, allowing them to register telepathic signals directed at them from other beings. This has the sole effect of allowing the host to understand any verbalization directed at them.

The airborn bacteria would have the same effect.

GREGOLE wrote:

Unnecessarily complex. The babel fish bores into the host's brain, allowing them to register telepathic signals directed at them from other beings. This has the sole effect of allowing the host to understand any verbalization directed at them.

The airborn bacteria would have the same effect.

In that case it's impossible to liar or bluf because when you liar you say the opposite of what are you thinking.

And there is a possibility to communicate with a kensha by example

I ask again and what about the question writings and text, knowing it's a form a language.

[quote="gwadahunter2222"]

GREGOLE wrote:

I ask again and what about the question writings and text, knowing it's a form a language.

Well, there are several canon instances of misinterpreted written languages "Caution, pool of shrinking" written in fairy script comest tom mind rather quickly.

Feign wrote:

Well, there are several canon instances of misinterpreted written languages "Caution, pool of shrinking" written in fairy script comest tom mind rather quickly.

In that case the language barrier still here

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In that case the language barrier still here Sad

Verbal addressing and writing are two different things.

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In that case it's impossible to liar or bluf because when you liar you say the opposite of what are you thinking.

Most predators can tell if someone is lying to begin with, just by analyzing their physical condition. No major change.

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And there is a possibility to communicate with a kensha by example Question

To a very limited extent, sure.

Hey, why the hell not?

GREGOLE wrote:

Verbal addressing and writing are two different things.

*

There is a link between them because the writings it's the step after the verbal adressing. The verbal addressing show its limits when you are not in face to face situation.

Writting is the foundation of a civilisation, it will be more difficult to developp a city to use money,technology etc.... You won't be able to call someone with a phone

In clear the virus becomes a drawback when you want to understand a civilisation.

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Most predators can tell if someone is lying to begin with, just by analyzing their physical condition. No major change.

There is people able to control their physical condition when they lie.

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The babel fish bores into the host's brain, allowing them to register telepathic signals directed at them from other beings.

Both the predator and the humans will know when the other lie I explain when the predator will say "I'm not going to eat you!" the humans will know the predator is going to eat him why because the telepathic signals will be "I'm going to eat you."

Everything will be know in advance and it will make the discussion very short and brief.

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Both the predator and the humans will know when the other lie I explain when the predator will say "I'm not going to eat you!" the humans will know the predator is going to eat him why because the telepathic signals will be "I'm going to eat you."

Everything will be know in advance and it will make the discussion very short and brief.

Not necesarrily. If we go by Douglas Adams sci-fi, we could easily assume that the babel fish only registers thoughts actually directed at the recipient.

A predator will know it's going to eat its victim, but it won't direct those thoughts to its prey: why would it?

You could lie to someone, but because you understand the meaning of the lie directed at them, the recipient would register the meaning of the lie - and only the lie.

Going way back:

GREGOLE wrote:

You missed the entire joke. XP

Yes. I sorta did. ^^; I had found it funny, but I couldn’t tell that you had meant it that way. Or something like that. Point is, I played the straight man. You know, the comic foil.

But to Babel business! Going to Wikipedia for information on the original Babel fish we find

Wikipedia wrote:

The Babel fish is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language.

Alright, from here we can get rid of the whole first part, as it’s a bacteria or virus, and not a fish. But other than that, it should work much the same. I think that this is a good idea, and that it should explain everything. (Although, just because we know the answer to this, doesn’t mean any Felaryans do. Scientists could still be researching it in many cities) We just need to work out the kinks.

On an interesting side note, thanks to a later part of the before mentioned Wikipedia article, I get the joke Gregole did. God vanishes in a puff of logic. XD I really need to reread the Guide.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

In that case it's impossible to liar or bluf because when you liar you say the opposite of what are you thinking.
And there is a possibility to communicate with a kensha by example
I ask again and what about the question writings and text, knowing it's a form a language.

Three good questions. Deceit is very important for survival in Felarya. So there has to be a way around that.

I would thing that talking with animals or other non-sentient beasts would be impossible, as any brainwaves they might emit would be undecipherable. Not being sentient means no rational thought, so there is nothing but static from them basically.

Writings have no brains, thus no brainwaves, thus not readable unless you know the language. That’s why most civilizations in Felarya (say, Negav for instance) use simple pictures as a writing system. They would likely use several of the most prominent writings from the major cultures in the city.

GREGOLE wrote:

Afore Stated Brilliance. See above post

And once again, Gregole saves the day with his brilliant idea. Liars rejoice!

Silent_eric wrote:

Writings have no brains, thus no brainwaves, thus not readable unless you know the language. That’s why most civilizations in Felarya (say, Negav for instance) use simple pictures as a writing system. They would likely use several of the most prominent writings from the major cultures in the city.

I don't think so, because depending a culture a picture can be interpreted in different ways.

And we don't know all the civilisations existing in Felarya, it's possible the neko possess their own writtings.

And in the case of cities like Negav, where you can find advanced technology and different kind of schools I doubt people use simple picture.

And you know what will kill this virus, the machines based on vocal system.

If someone send you a recording message you won't understand it because this person will think you know it's language.

And another point there are language you won't understand if you don't learn it by example Japanese, Chinese because a word can mean many thing.

The language is something more complex than you think because it always evolves. It's possible to create new words depending a form of knowledge by example "narutards" you won't never understand this word if you know the manga "Naruto"

When you translate something you always refer to something you know.

The understanding of a language depend more of your knowledge than a translating system

I kind of liked the idea that it worked like an ancient language teaching program, one that may have been around before nature retook Felarya, but has a side effect of teaching one language to anything that has a chance of understanding it. This could be a very quick thing, similar to the translator nanaites in the Farscape universe. Thus making a native language and a "Felaryan universal speech" that sounds to the listener like their own native language and is impossible to tell the difference when speaking it.

As an odd side effect, it maybe tries to teach a kind of "hurt nothing pacifism" that instead results in everything learning over time to eat prey whole and alive, as not to visibly hurt them. It would explain why almost everything that can understand language will also swallow prey whole and alive if possible.

I like to tie as much of the world-wide blanket effects of Felarya together at once. The "ancient fallen civilization" scenario seems to be a good source for all of this kind of stuff.

Feign wrote:

I kind of liked the idea that it worked like an ancient language teaching program, one that may have been around before nature retook Felarya, but has a side effect of teaching one language to anything that has a chance of understanding it. This could be a very quick thing, similar to the translator nanaites in the Farscape universe. Thus making a native language and a "Felaryan universal speech" that sounds to the listener like their own native language and is impossible to tell the difference when speaking it.

As an odd side effect, it maybe tries to teach a kind of "hurt nothing pacifism" that instead results in everything learning over time to eat prey whole and alive, as not to visibly hurt them. It would explain why almost everything that can understand language will also swallow prey whole and alive if possible.

I like to tie as much of the world-wide blanket effects of Felarya together at once. The "ancient fallen civilization" scenario seems to be a good source for all of this kind of stuff.

The problem there is always misunderstanding why people don't think in the same way. A predator don't think like a prey and a prey don't think like a predator, this difference create a language barrier even if they speak the same language.

Even we can speak the same language and never to understand us like now.

Due to one thing our knowledge, the language reflect a knowledge to be simple the discussion we have here from someone who don't know Felarya won't understand it.

You know what it's easier to understand the violence than pacifism because it's the most siple form of language. You can explain it without using word by example an action movie it's easier to understand than a philosophical debate.

And another point searching an explanation about the fact people can speak the same language can be pointless because we write a story about Felarya it's only from the reader's point of view everyone speak the same language nothing more.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

The problem there is always misunderstanding why people don't think in the same way. A predator don't think like a prey and a prey don't think like a predator, this difference create a language barrier even if they speak the same language.

It seems like that's pretty consistant with what goes on in Felarya anyway. Sure a prey can talk to a pred, but it generally doesn't do them much good since their points of view are so different.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

You know what it's easier to understand the violence than pacifism because it's the most siple form of language. You can explain it without using word by example an action movie it's easier to understand than a philosophical debate.

I've always said I'm bilingual... I speak English and violence.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

And another point searching an explanation about the fact people can speak the same language can be pointless because we write a story about Felarya it's only from the reader's point of view everyone speak the same language nothing more.

True, though like many other things in the Felaryan universe, it's just more fun to speculate. ^_^

You know the universal language it's a pure utopia for one point there is an infinite possibility of language.
We can communicate by the eyes, the hand even our whole body because the language gathers all the way to explain a thinking.
A universal language impose a universal thinking, why because the language vary from a characters to another, by example we don't talk like our grand parents our our parents, because new words and new expressions appears.
The problem with a babel virus our a system of communication based on old technology or civilisation won't work because to our brain. If we receive too much information than our brain can manage we will become crazy.
The language is always in evolution so the babel virus or the civilisation will always evolve and send in continue information to our brain it can be dangerous. It's like to charge a computer with too much data, there will be a moment it will saturate

((Sneaking on BAD))

Myself, I don't see everything in Felarya able to know one another's language. There are 'common' languages, 'uncommon' languages, and 'unknown' languages, if to be summarized in a very broad way. 'Common' and 'Uncommon' are as their names imply. Uncommon would likely be most well known among the native speakers (dur), and those of the Merchant class or Mage Class (Depending on if the world of the language's origin has magic functions).

'Unkown' is a language that isn't necessarily never seen, it's just so rare that bothering to teach large numbers of people it is worthless. Latin, High Gothic, Hylian, Dwemer, Orc (D&D), and such similar languages are from cultures very, VERY unlikely to come across Felarya. Well, scratch Dwemer. The Daedra and Aedra were probably feths and sent them to Felarya, and not to nothing space.

A footnote of my own: "Complicated" making separate languages in a story is not a valid excuse. You could represent unknown languages in a variety of ways as in online translator's to non-common languages in the story, type things in backwards, use a randomizer of some sort to alter the text, etc. Feth, worse comes to worse you can just omit typing the other language's words and put stuff like: The pair listened with a questioning face for a few minutes, before turning to chat to one another in their native language.

Malahite wrote:

((Sneaking on BAD)) Various good points.

That's all very true, in a vaguely D&D kind of way, but what about the people who come from another dimension and immediately strike up conversation? Such as when Scarecrow first meets Crisis.

Silent_eric wrote:

That's all very true, in a vaguely D&D kind of way, but what about the people who come from another dimension and immediately strike up conversation? Such as when Scarecrow first meets Crisis.

It's a detail you can arrive in a foreign country you don't know the language and arrive to speak with the native. The language it's not limited by the words there will be always a way to communicate.

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The problem with a babel virus our a system of communication based on old technology or civilisation won't work because to our brain. If we receive too much information than our brain can manage we will become crazy.
The language is always in evolution so the babel virus or the civilisation will always evolve and send in continue information to our brain it can be dangerous. It's like to charge a computer with too much data, there will be a moment it will saturate Sad

I can assure you that with the babel virus, that isn't anything even remotely close to true.

Language evolves, but the message directed at our brain doesn't. Thusly there is no overload of information.

gwadahunter2222 wrote:

You know the universal language it's a pure utopia for one point there is an infinite possibility of language.
We can communicate by the eyes, the hand even our whole body because the language gathers all the way to explain a thinking.
A universal language impose a universal thinking, why because the language vary from a characters to another, by example we don't talk like our grand parents our our parents, because new words and new expressions appears.
The problem with a babel virus our a system of communication based on old technology or civilisation won't work because to our brain. If we receive too much information than our brain can manage we will become crazy.
The language is always in evolution so the babel virus or the civilisation will always evolve and send in continue information to our brain it can be dangerous. It's like to charge a computer with too much data, there will be a moment it will saturate

It reminds me of the first episode of Kino's Journey. Kino gets to a town where the people invented a kind of technology that made them all permanently telepathic with one another... The civilization then fell within a month due to rioting that escalated to civil war.

That's like one of the things that really fascinates me about Felarya, its very origin seems to be a tale of unintended consequences.

GREGOLE wrote:

I can assure you that with the babel virus, that isn't anything even remotely close to true.

Language evolves, but the message directed at our brain doesn't. Thusly there is no overload of information.

You know if we follow your theory our way of thinking don't evolve, but it's not true we don't think like our parents and our children won't think like us.

The reason why the language evolve it's because our mind evolve too. An example your point of view about the opposite sex is not same when you were a kid

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You know if we follow your theory our way of
thinking don't evolve, but it's not true we don't think like our
parents and our children won't think like us.

The reason why the
language evolve it's because our mind evolve too. An example your point
of view about the opposite sex is not same when you were a kid

That is totally irrelivent.

The babel virus will imprint the message being conveyed by the other party into your mind. It couldn't matter less how the language evolves, simply because it will mean the same thing.

Not thinking like your parents is a matter of philosphy and approach to life and has absolutely nothing to do with language.

Stop trying to poke meaningless holes into my brilliant idea, dammit! >>

GREGOLE wrote:

That is totally irrelivent.

The babel virus will imprint the message being conveyed by the other party into your mind. It couldn't matter less how the language evolves, simply because it will mean the same thing.

Not thinking like your parents is a matter of philosphy and approach to life and has absolutely nothing to do with language.

Stop trying to poke meaningless holes into my brilliant idea, dammit! >>

Why it happens sometime your parents don't understand you and you speak the same language

Through the language you express your feeling and what you think.

The mind allow you to understand to understand your surrounding, in clear even if you send a telepathic message by example an "apple" to someone there is a chance it won't understand you why if it's person doesn't know what is an apple.

You know the meaning of the word "language" you discover it when you programme on a computer.

No matter the form of language telepathic or not you will use if you don't have a common base you will never communicate.

Your virus it's similar to the firefox addons I use to translate webpage in foreign language, it happen it doesn't translate some words why because there are words you don't find its equivalent in other language

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Why it happens sometime your parents don't understand you and you speak the same language

Through the language you express your feeling and what you think.

The
mind allow you to understand to understand your surrounding, in clear
even if you send a telepathic message by example an "apple" to someone
there is a chance it won't understand you why if it's person doesn't
know what is an apple.

You know the meaning of the word "language" you discover it when you programme on a computer.

No matter the form of language telepathic or not you will use if you don't have a common base you will never communicate.

Your
virus it's similar to the firefox addons I use to translate webpage in
foreign language, it happen it doesn't translate some words why because
there are words you don't find its equivalent in other language

As I said before, totally irrelivent.

Slang is itself a language. Thusly, the bacteria would allow a 90's New Yorker to understand a 70's California teenager.

If the word for "apple" differs, then the bacteria will simply translate the word "apple" into whatever its equivalent in the recipient's language is.

If the recipient doesn't know what an apple is, then they'll simply recognize it as a word they don't know.

There is no problem here.

GREGOLE wrote:

Slang is itself a language. Thusly, the bacteria would allow a 90's New Yorker to understand a 70's California teenager.

It works because there is a common point they are american and they speak a same language.
Let's take the 1900 japanese and 90's american teenagers

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If the word for "apple" differs, then the bacteria will simply translate the word "apple" into whatever its equivalent in the recipient's language is.

If the recipient doesn't know what an apple is, then they'll simply recognize it as a word they don't know.

There is no problem here.

To recognize something you need to know it if you don't know it you won't recognize it.

The langage reflect the knowledge of the people who uses it, in clear your virus won't work if you face someone who don't have the same knwoledge as you.

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It works because there is a common point they are american and they speak a same language.
Let's take the 1900 japanese and 90's american teenagers

Actually, there is no difference. They don't speak the same language, they speak their own respective languages.

Very few people nowadays know what the hell a sockhop is, yet the bacteria would indeed allow one to understand that it refers to a shoe-less dance.

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To recognize something you need to know it if you don't know it you won't recognize it.

The
langage reflect the knowledge of the people who uses it, in clear your
virus won't work if you face someone who don't have the same knwoledge
as you.

With all due respect, you're making a big deal out of nothing.

If you don't recognize the concept, you won't recognize the word. Simple as that.

An alien being telling you that it needs water for some sort of alien device, speaking to a carrier of the bacteria, would translate the concept "I need water for this" but not be able to understand the word used to refer to the device.

The alien is familiar with the device, so when it directs the thoughts to the recipient without bothering to try and explain what the device is. In its mind, the device has a name, which is filtered into the recipient's mind.

If the alien were to try and explain the device, however, the recipient would register the concepts.

Once again, it's a flawless system, so quit questioning my genius!

GREGOLE wrote:

Once again, it's a flawless system, so quit questioning my genius!

There is nothing which is flawless
In what you are a genius

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An alien being telling you that it needs water for some sort of alien device, speaking to a carrier of the bacteria, would translate the concept "I need water for this" but not be able to understand the word used to refer to the device.

In condition the alliens speaks about simple thing but if you want a real debate with this alien it won't work

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Very few people nowadays know what the hell a sockhop is, yet the bacteria would indeed allow one to understand that it refers to a shoe-less dance.

Because there is common database of knowledge.

An universal language is pure utopia due to one thing you need to create a universal knowledge so if something new and unknow appear your virus won't be able to define it.