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Gamma
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:14 pm

Karbo wrote:
I imagined them being constantly in space and built there.

I was thinking something similar, though unless they've got really good anti-gravity any ship that stays in space is going to be nothing more than a crashed hulk on Felarya...which could make for an interesting landmark, whether abandoned or reclaimed (by either the Vishmital or someone else). One idea I had for a major stumbling block the Vishmital would run into is even their smaller ships are built in space, so they needed to redesign the construction process for them from scratch to work in a non-zero-g environment before they could build even the small vessels that can function in Felarya.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:08 pm

sobsob  I was ingnored! I suppose gender based dress code gets pushed to the way side when around giant cannons...  Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:54 pm

Gamma wrote:
Karbo wrote:
I imagined them being constantly in space and built there.

I was thinking something similar, though unless they've got really good anti-gravity any ship that stays in space is going to be nothing more than a crashed hulk on Felarya...which could make for an interesting landmark, whether abandoned or reclaimed (by either the Vishmital or someone else).  One idea I had for a major stumbling block the Vishmital would run into is even their smaller ships are built in space, so they needed to redesign the construction process for them from scratch to work in a non-zero-g environment before they could build even the small vessels that can function in Felarya.


Well maybe not space but what about a sky dock shipyard/refueling area. A sort of space station for the air. I mean constructing it would be a pain what with harpies and vicious man eating birds and insects but I believe the Vishies could do it and do it well. Then you could use it as a hub for both speaking away from Negav's eavesdropping spells AND it would be piece of Vishie soil outside of the city where they could, ya know if another cold war erupted, have a staging platform. <.< Just in case.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:51 am

It is possible the Vishmitals are very well accustomed to anti-grav technology, I'm not sure where this stands at the moment, though the original specs for their MBTs were for them to use anti-grav as part of their propulsion system.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:51 pm

jedi-explorer wrote:
Gamma wrote:
Karbo wrote:
I imagined them being constantly in space and built there.

I was thinking something similar, though unless they've got really good anti-gravity any ship that stays in space is going to be nothing more than a crashed hulk on Felarya...which could make for an interesting landmark, whether abandoned or reclaimed (by either the Vishmital or someone else).  One idea I had for a major stumbling block the Vishmital would run into is even their smaller ships are built in space, so they needed to redesign the construction process for them from scratch to work in a non-zero-g environment before they could build even the small vessels that can function in Felarya.


Well maybe not space but what about a sky dock shipyard/refueling area. A sort of space station for the air. I mean constructing it would be a pain what with harpies and vicious man eating birds and insects but I believe the Vishies could do it and do it well. Then you could use it as a hub for both speaking away from Negav's eavesdropping spells AND it would be piece of Vishie soil outside of the city where they could, ya know if another cold war erupted, have a staging platform. <.< Just in case.

That would work, and would be a major project–arguably one of magnitude that could be well underway but still in progress during current times.

I want to avoid giving the Vishmital too much anti-grav tech (really, gravity manipulation) because then they start coming up with...interesting applications. That said, it would be sensible for their FTL drives to be able to generate gravity fields, and would be a pretty viable limitation if only an FTL core could do so; that puts the same minimum size limit on gravity manipulation as on FTL travel, gives their larger ships easy single-stage-to-anywhere capability, but stops them from using it for things like squishing predators at ease with it (unless said predator wanders too close to a full-size ship, in which case that's the least of their worries). It would be easy to say that existing FTL core designs require elements not easily found on Felarya, stopping the Vishmital from easily making more without importing large amounts of foreign material (though, with time, they should be able to make a Felaryan FTL core by combining their advanced knowledge with magic and rare Felaryan minerals–though the Psi'ol aren't sharing either of those very much). Also, anything with an anti-grav system can effectively fly (especially in Felarya, where the absolute ceiling is only 15km at most)–though I wouldn't be adverse to saying Vishmital don't use tanks any more in favor of VTOL gunships.

Speaking of FTL, one idea I had is that Felarya acts as sort of a sinkhole dimensionally on Vishmital FTL drives; the original group wound up trapped when they went too close and got pulled in. Current Vishmital FTL tech isn't powerful enough to pull them out, so their large ships are stuck here until they can make a dimensional gate big enough to get them out–a big challenge on such a hostile world. The journey in would also probably be rough, stopping the Vishmital from invading in force and also giving them some immediate problems on their first arrival.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:46 pm

Gamma wrote:
That would work, and would be a major project–arguably one of magnitude that could be well underway but still in progress during current times.
A refueling station? It would not be too strange, I suppose. Doesn't have to be a major project, though- it can be just a giant metal frame with a zeppelin inside, or even anchored around one of the many many many floating minerals out there. Surely, there must be some loose Eidoron out there.

Gamma wrote:
I want to avoid giving the Vishmital too much anti-grav tech (really, gravity manipulation) because then they start coming up with...interesting applications.  That said, it would be sensible for their FTL drives to be able to generate gravity fields, and would be a pretty viable limitation if only an FTL core could do so; that puts the same minimum size limit on gravity manipulation as on FTL travel, gives their larger ships easy single-stage-to-anywhere capability, but stops them from using it for things like squishing predators at ease with it (unless said predator wanders too close to a full-size ship, in which case that's the least of their worries).
If you're worried about squishing preds by dropping ships on them, we can always make it so that preds (except slug girls) are agile enough that ships instead eat a bowful of dirt. And explode.

Gamma wrote:
It would be easy to say that existing FTL core designs require elements not easily found on Felarya, stopping the Vishmital from easily making more without importing large amounts of foreign material (though, with time, they should be able to make a Felaryan FTL core by combining their advanced knowledge with magic and rare Felaryan minerals–though the Psi'ol aren't sharing either of those very much).  Also, anything with an anti-grav system can effectively fly (especially in Felarya, where the absolute ceiling is only 15km at most)–though I wouldn't be adverse to saying Vishmital don't use tanks any more in favor of VTOL gunships.
On the one hand, I can see gunships as being the new Vishmital workhorse. Nobody shoots stuff at the Vish anymore; predators aren't known for their love of antitank guns. On the other, it'd be a shame to waste those hovertanks Karbo drew.

Gamma wrote:
Speaking of FTL, one idea I had is that Felarya acts as sort of a sinkhole dimensionally on Vishmital FTL drives; the original group wound up trapped when they went too close and got pulled in.  Current Vishmital FTL tech isn't powerful enough to pull them out, so their large ships are stuck here until they can make a dimensional gate big enough to get them out–a big challenge on such a hostile world.  The journey in would also probably be rough, stopping the Vishmital from invading in force and also giving them some immediate problems on their first arrival.
So, Vishmital FTL gets wonky near Felarya portals? That could be. Perhaps it's not designed with near-portal operation in mind or stuff?
Continuing on before, maybe FTL drives aren't borked by Felarya, they simply don't work at all. Think like a diesel engine, it needs air to breathe, or like how a capacitor cannot function inside a bigger reverse voltage. How about if Vish drives need stable local spacetime where the only disturbances are the ones the engine itself generates, or else its portal generation fizzles out?

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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:54 pm

Stabs wrote:
Gamma wrote:
I want to avoid giving the Vishmital too much anti-grav tech (really, gravity manipulation) because then they start coming up with...interesting applications.  That said, it would be sensible for their FTL drives to be able to generate gravity fields, and would be a pretty viable limitation if only an FTL core could do so; that puts the same minimum size limit on gravity manipulation as on FTL travel, gives their larger ships easy single-stage-to-anywhere capability, but stops them from using it for things like squishing predators at ease with it (unless said predator wanders too close to a full-size ship, in which case that's the least of their worries).
If you're worried about squishing preds by dropping ships on them, we can always make it so that preds (except slug girls) are agile enough that ships instead eat a bowful of dirt. And explode.

I'm more worried about them grabbing a rock from nearby and dropping it on a predator...or just generating a 10g field around said predator and let them squash themselves.  Like I said before, though, I'm fine with the few true spaceships being able to do that, because they're already several hundred meter long mechanical behemoths, and they could just as easily blowtorch any predators with their maneuvering thrusters (the Vishmital have, in the process of establishing their empire long ago, become well-versed in the Kzinti lesson: "a reaction drive's efficiency as a weapon is in direct proportion to its efficiency as a drive.").

Stabs wrote:
Gamma wrote:
It would be easy to say that existing FTL core designs require elements not easily found on Felarya, stopping the Vishmital from easily making more without importing large amounts of foreign material (though, with time, they should be able to make a Felaryan FTL core by combining their advanced knowledge with magic and rare Felaryan minerals–though the Psi'ol aren't sharing either of those very much).  Also, anything with an anti-grav system can effectively fly (especially in Felarya, where the absolute ceiling is only 15km at most)–though I wouldn't be adverse to saying Vishmital don't use tanks any more in favor of VTOL gunships.
On the one hand, I can see gunships as being the new Vishmital workhorse. Nobody shoots stuff at the Vish anymore; predators aren't known for their love of antitank guns. On the other, it'd be a shame to waste those hovertanks Karbo drew.

Honestly, an argument could be made for bigger use of hovertanks on Felarya; the low ceiling hurts aircraft, and the more compact, wingless shape of a hovertank is much better at surviving being picked up by a predator, and with the extra amor from a more permissive mass limit, generally a more durable unit.  Plus, the hover drive is internalized, unlike aerodynamic wings, which are at risk from getting snapped off when grabbed.

Stabs wrote:
Gamma wrote:
Speaking of FTL, one idea I had is that Felarya acts as sort of a sinkhole dimensionally on Vishmital FTL drives; the original group wound up trapped when they went too close and got pulled in.  Current Vishmital FTL tech isn't powerful enough to pull them out, so their large ships are stuck here until they can make a dimensional gate big enough to get them out–a big challenge on such a hostile world.  The journey in would also probably be rough, stopping the Vishmital from invading in force and also giving them some immediate problems on their first arrival.
So, Vishmital FTL gets wonky near Felarya portals? That could be. Perhaps it's not designed with near-portal operation in mind or stuff?
Continuing on before, maybe FTL drives aren't borked by Felarya, they simply don't work at all. Think like a diesel engine, it needs air to breathe, or like how a capacitor cannot function inside a bigger reverse voltage. How about if Vish drives need stable local spacetime where the only disturbances are the ones the engine itself generates, or else its portal generation fizzles out?

I was thinking something more based along the lines of String Fountain's theory on Felarya as a seal, and, either due to the abnormal dimensional currents due to that, or worse, because the seal is leaking, active FTL drives get sucked into Felarya–and not gently, at that.  I was thinking that they'd work similarly to an Alcubierre drive, and I could definitely see then needing a more stable spacetime to work (and also a rather flat one; this would be an excuse to enforce the standard sci-fi trope of "no lightspeed too close to a planet"); on Felarya, they'd be purely large, power-hog gravity generators.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:41 am

felarya_refugee wrote:
sobsob  I was ingnored! I suppose gender based dress code gets pushed to the way side when around giant cannons...  Razz

sorry ^^;  Well for the final picture once the design is chosen I'll do a male and female version yes Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:32 am

I have posted the picture : http://karbo.deviantart.com/art/Vishmital-concept-673729370  
Don't forget to tell which outfit design you prefer ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:55 pm

All right!  I like the added layer of detail and polish overall.  As for individual things:

  • My favorite outfit is probably 6.  I like the greatcoat look, and the designs along the hem and the asymmetry of it are nice touches and support it as more of an overgarment.  Along with the scarf and shoulderpads, it definitely looks more like something a Vishmital would wear for exploration, light combat, or general preparedness.  At being something similar in utility, I'd say 3 and 8 also look nice and durable.  They also have plenty of space for hidden gadgets, and look hard enough to remove by predators to keep access to those gadgets.  8's helmet looks a little small, though, especially with the slope; it feels like it's going to be rather thin.  The bottom one of the two sketches to the immediate right of 8 has better proportions.
  • I like the beret.  Honestly, the cone things might look interesting, but they don't have the sheer nice-hat-ness that a beret does.  The tech detailing on the band and the larger earpiece on her visor also lend credence to the idea that it's not just eyewear, but also a display and AR device.  It's probably not feasible at this size of drawing, but for more detailed works I'd like to see some actual display graphics visible on clear visors like that.
  • The guy's eyepiece looks good; the actual lens itself is close to his own eye in size, and that, along with the little piece of metal on his forehead opposite, keeps his face more balanced.  The jawpiece makes it look like the inside of a helmet.  I see it making more sense as a prosthetic instead of simply as something to wear, since the visor-style eyewear is less intrusive and bulky, and if they really need more functionality a full helmet is probably the way to go.
  • I'm really liking the second armor down on the far right.  The layered visor look is suitably alien, and the little asymmetries make it visually interesting.  The one above it, though, feel a bit too derivative of Games Workshop stuff (have to watch out for lawsuits).
  • I really think the carrier doesn't come across as such.  It doesn't have any clear axial launch bays or catapults (gotta save some of your fighter's delta-v), really, and has more big guns than little guns (which is really a complaint I can make for all of the ships; they need more secondary and point-defense turrets).  I like the circular clusters, and I feel the ships could all use more light lines like the planetary bomber has.  I know it would be time-intensive, and I'll try and do some myself, but I feel like the ship designs would benefit from perspective views, or at least views from more than one direction to better get an idea of the shape and general layout.

That pretty much covers my comments on the new stuff.  Now I need to get to work on my own concept sketches.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:39 am

Gamma wrote:
[*]The guy's eyepiece looks good; the actual lens itself is close to his own eye in size, and that, along with the little piece of metal on his forehead opposite, keeps his face more balanced.  The jawpiece makes it look like the inside of a helmet.  I see it making more sense as a prosthetic instead of simply as something to wear, since the visor-style eyewear is less intrusive and bulky, and if they really need more functionality a full helmet is probably the way to go.

[*]

I figure its a brace that protects against damage to the head and cortex. Such as a powerful blow to the head, the frame around part of it might go down to the neck as well, and would sponge the damage and keep his neck from being snapped, basically...and be surprisingly good at that I'd wager. Notice the piece goes around the base of the neck as well?

Gamma wrote:
[*]I really think the carrier doesn't come across as such.  It doesn't have any clear axial launch bays or catapults (gotta save some of your fighter's delta-v), really, and has more big guns than little guns (which is really a complaint I can make for all of the ships; they need more secondary and point-defense turrets).  I like the circular clusters, and I feel the ships could all use more light lines like the planetary bomber has.  I know it would be time-intensive, and I'll try and do some myself, but I feel like the ship designs would benefit from perspective views, or at least views from more than one direction to better get an idea of the shape and general layout.


[*]

That's sort of how I felt, but didn't know how to put it. The ships also don't really look big enough. At least the carrier and the head ship. To address that problem I think we need to cover ship classes and how they relate to one another. The destroyer is only slightly smaller than the planetary bomber, and the Carrier, of all things.

The carrier needs to be huge. No this isn't a "lets make huge ships for huge ships sake", and more of a "how many fighters do you want it to store?" kind of sake. A larger ship means more launch bays. Also the size of a ship plays a morale effect. If you see this huge (and I mean 'yuuuuuuge' :p ) ship in your fleet, next to you, or on the other side, it makes people's jaw drop. It is intimidating, and provides a statement of power, and with it being a carrier, that means that size is actually useful for practical purposes.

For example, a US Destroyer is probably about 1/3 the size of a US Carrier. Cruisers are probably around 2/3 the size (I'm guestimating here based on general knowledge. You might think about using similar sizes, or may want them smaller. You might want a whole bunch of smaller carriers, arguing that because they are smaller they're easier to mass produce, and they may actually shovel out far more fighters than normal.

Though Gamma brings up a point in that we still don't see any actual launch bays. That could be because the ship is already huge and they're hard to see. We don't have actual size figures listed there. If that is the case, then you may want to decrease the size of the destroyer because it is too big, and the planetary bomber is probably more like an artillery battleship.

Now the capital ship just looks badass. Its supposed to (be huge and intimidating). I'm personally a fan of the elongated frontal spires shown on some sci fi ships. I particularly like the Hammerhead class cruiser from Star Wars. In all seriousness, the capital ship being huge would be a morale booster, seeing its massive form in the center of your fleet gives everyone in the battle a sense of pride around it.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:58 am

You still didn't do any feminine outfits for the Vishmital, Sir Karbo! sobsob I am going to presume that Vishmital dress code is unisex? Or is this just for the males on the full dress uniform  and BDUs?

As for which three I like best it is four, five and seven.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:00 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
That's sort of how I felt, but didn't know how to put it. The ships also don't really look big enough. At least the carrier and the head ship. To address that problem I think we need to cover ship classes and how they relate to one another. The destroyer is only slightly smaller than the planetary bomber, and the Carrier, of all things.

The carrier needs to be huge. No this isn't a "lets make huge ships for huge ships sake", and more of a "how many fighters do you want it to store?" kind of sake. A larger ship means more launch bays. Also the size of a ship plays a morale effect. If you see this huge (and I mean 'yuuuuuuge' :p ) ship in your fleet, next to you, or on the other side, it makes people's jaw drop. It is intimidating, and provides a statement of power, and with it being a carrier, that means that size is actually useful for practical purposes.

For example, a US Destroyer is probably about 1/3 the size of a US Carrier. Cruisers are probably around 2/3 the size (I'm guestimating here based on general knowledge. You might think about using similar sizes, or may want them smaller. You might want a whole bunch of smaller carriers, arguing that because they are smaller they're easier to mass produce, and they may actually shovel out far more fighters than normal.

Though Gamma brings up a point in that we still don't see any actual launch bays. That could be because the ship is already huge and they're hard to see. We don't have actual size figures listed there. If that is the case, then you may want to decrease the size of the destroyer because it is too big, and the planetary bomber is probably more like an artillery battleship.

Now the capital ship just looks badass. Its supposed to (be huge and intimidating). I'm personally a fan of the elongated frontal spires shown on some sci fi ships. I particularly like the Hammerhead class cruiser from Star Wars. In all seriousness, the capital ship being huge would be a morale booster, seeing its massive form in the center of your fleet gives everyone in the battle a sense of pride around it.


So historically, carriers have come in multiple sizes; both big fleet carriers (and even bigger supercarriers) for "how many fighters do you want it to store," as well as smaller light carriers, and even smaller escort carriers.  Planetside, a larger carrier not only holds more fighters, it also has more catapults, so it can launch them in quicker succession, and its longer runways let it field larger and heavier aircraft (as seen here, up to an including transport craft).  The catapult doesn't factor in so much in space, but smaller carriers would likely have insufficient room to service heavier craft.  As an aside, modern cruisers are barely larger than destroyers, but that's historically not been the case.

My thoughts were that the Vishmital ships would fall into the following size classes:

  • Small craft: Spaceships too small to have a warp core; incapable of superluminal transit.  Ranges from small drone fighters to larger transport shuttles.
  • Pickets: The smallest ship size with a warp core, pickets would include all manner of frigates, scouts, and light transports,
    as well as larger torpedo boats and assault landing craft.  Probably crewed by no more than a dozen, this ship class would be numerous, and probably the largest ships that could be built surfaceside, as well as the largest ships the Vishmital can reasonably fly around on Felarya; it is a quite rare picket that isn't as comfortable in the atmosphere as outside it.  Without exception, these ships are too weak for the main line of battle in any sizable engagement, but are commonly used as scouts, flanking attackers, and wolfpack hunter-killers.  Also in this class are mini-carriers, which carry a single wing of light fighters and allow them to operate for long periods of time further from bases.  A common feature among pickets is for major equipment (guns, sensor arrays, cargo bays, missile bays, launch bays, etc) to be very visible and seem oversized for the small ship.  These ships can be made cheaply enough for rich buyers to have their own personal space yacht, and large Vishmital conglomerates can field small fleets of them.
  • Medium ships: Spacecraft large enough for operations far from base and generally well-rounded; this class includes cruisers, medium transports, and light carriers.  Crewed by two dozen to a hundred, their roles are as varied as their shapes; in size, they generally are about double the size of a picket along any dimension, and maybe five times the volume and mass, having generally more streamlined shapes.  Medium ships make up the majority of a Vishmital battle line, and are often assigned to head larger groups of pickets.  Out of combat, they serve as exploration vessels and ply the transit lanes.  Out of the price range of individuals, the purchase of a medium ship generally marks the point where a small company becomes a true presence of note.  All medium ships on Felarya are generally grounded, and while they can move occasionally, the low atmospheric ceiling makes them quite cramped; however, almost all mediums can operate in atmosphere, albeit often in an ungainly fashion.
  • Capital ships: These massive spaceships are capable of performing their designed task better than any other vessels,
    but they're also a hefty investment of resources.  When the Vishmital commit capitals to a goal, it can be taken as a sure sign that they intend it to happen.  This class includes warships in the battleship and fleet carrier categories, as well as bulk transport ships, lunar mining vessels, and advanced scientific exploration ships.  In size, they range from half again to a little over three times as long as mediums, and their general proportions vary significantly more; many of them are not even designed for atmospheric operation.  Their masses vary even more than their size, but a rule of thumb would be three to ten times as massive as a medium ship, and crewed by no less than a hundred crew, with some ships reaching almost a thousand.  Only the largest corporations can afford ownership of one, which will be their pride as well as their primary source of profit.  All of the few capital ships on Felarya are more or less immobile structures, and tend to form the center of permanent small cities or large military bases.  Moving any one would be a massive undertaking, intensive in time, energy, resources, and manpower...and would also signal a major shift with political repercussions back in Negav.
  • Superships: Massive, often unique spaceships, purpose-built for a major operation.  The Vishmital fleet has many of them, which serve as fleet and theatre command ships, boasting as much in information processing as they do in firepower and armor.  There isn't really an upper limit on this size class, simply an upper limit on what's been built so far.  There are no intact superships known to exist on Felarya.


As for general warship tactics, I was thinking that the Vishmital would use their massive fusion cores to power large numbers of lasers in a variety of sizes, ranging from hordes of point-defense guns to a battleship's main cannons and the occasional city-glassing planetary bombardment beam.  They'd avoid force shields, though, due to detrimental effects on their own lasers, but have decently durable armor.  In battle, they'd try and stay in the sweet spot of range where their lasers are noticeably more effective than sub-luminal unguided projectiles and they can still intercept guided kinetics with point-defense laser arrays.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:41 am

felarya_refugee wrote:
You still didn't do any feminine outfits for the Vishmital, Sir Karbo! sobsob I am going to presume that Vishmital dress code is unisex? Or is this just for the males on the full dress uniform  and BDUs?
I think that's the whole point. I'm not a military expert, but I think it's just much more practical and functional to have a single standardized style of uniform that accommodates both sex, than having two separate styles for both sex. Also simpler to manufacture I would presume. I mean, if you think about it, adding a skirt to the uniform serves no other purpose than to inform us of the person's gender, which should already be plenty obvious just looking at their face.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:47 am

Hmh. Nice new avatar.

Either way, uniforms in militaries are gender neutral for a reason. They favor people to basically all look the same, to discourage individuality. You're part of the unit, not separate from it. You're all the same, all 'brothers in arms' as it were, you fight and support each other. Whether you're a man or a woman it makes no difference in battle.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:19 pm

Archmage_Bael wrote:
Hmh. Nice new avatar.

Either way, uniforms in militaries are gender neutral for a reason. They favor people to basically all look the same, to discourage individuality. You're part of the unit, not separate from it. You're all the same, all 'brothers in arms' as it were, you fight and support each other. Whether you're a man or a woman it makes no difference in battle.

Well for Modern Dress Uniforms that is true but ye olden dress uniforms used to have skirts for gals and shorter sleeves. Especially in the Air Force if I'm not mistaken. With the advent of multi-gender BDU's being more the common soldier's garment we saw pants incorporated into women's combat wear and sometimes in their dress uniforms but if I'm not mistaken the skirt hasn't been routed yet in the army and naval forces for Dress Uniforms.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:24 pm

Kind of. Different garments usually defer to different parts of the service, and that was during a time when women joining the military was just starting to be accepted publicly. Before then, women would wear male uniforms or dress as men even. That's not all, its not just about women too, but other men. This is about everybody wearing the same uniform because of the word itself: uni-form. one form. Everyone wears the same looking garment for a reason. everyone gets their head buzzed for a reason. you're all the same in battle. War doesn't discriminate. It kills people regardless of gender or race or belief, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:56 pm

At the very least, with all the tech and equipment a Vishmital soldier would carry around, it would be harder than normal to create two genders of uniform that functioned the same. Plus, their very name is gender-neutral; I would not be surprised if Vishmitals had a generally very gender-neutral culture for much of their history, as opposed to the primarily patriarchal cultures that modern-day cultures descended from.

With that said, I would be interested in seeing Vishmital casual fashion, for both genders, as well as civilian work outfits.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:44 am

Gamma wrote:
All right!  I like the added layer of detail and polish overall.  As for individual things:

  • My favorite outfit is probably 6.  I like the greatcoat look, and the designs along the hem and the asymmetry of it are nice touches and support it as more of an overgarment.  Along with the scarf and shoulderpads, it definitely looks more like something a Vishmital would wear for exploration, light combat, or general preparedness.  At being something similar in utility, I'd say 3 and 8 also look nice and durable.  They also have plenty of space for hidden gadgets, and look hard enough to remove by predators to keep access to those gadgets.  8's helmet looks a little small, though, especially with the slope; it feels like it's going to be rather thin.  The bottom one of the two sketches to the immediate right of 8 has better proportions.
  • I like the beret.  Honestly, the cone things might look interesting, but they don't have the sheer nice-hat-ness that a beret does.  The tech detailing on the band and the larger earpiece on her visor also lend credence to the idea that it's not just eyewear, but also a display and AR device.  It's probably not feasible at this size of drawing, but for more detailed works I'd like to see some actual display graphics visible on clear visors like that.
  • The guy's eyepiece looks good; the actual lens itself is close to his own eye in size, and that, along with the little piece of metal on his forehead opposite, keeps his face more balanced.  The jawpiece makes it look like the inside of a helmet.  I see it making more sense as a prosthetic instead of simply as something to wear, since the visor-style eyewear is less intrusive and bulky, and if they really need more functionality a full helmet is probably the way to go.
  • I'm really liking the second armor down on the far right.  The layered visor look is suitably alien, and the little asymmetries make it visually interesting.  The one above it, though, feel a bit too derivative of Games Workshop stuff (have to watch out for lawsuits).
  • I really think the carrier doesn't come across as such.  It doesn't have any clear axial launch bays or catapults (gotta save some of your fighter's delta-v), really, and has more big guns than little guns (which is really a complaint I can make for all of the ships; they need more secondary and point-defense turrets).  I like the circular clusters, and I feel the ships could all use more light lines like the planetary bomber has.  I know it would be time-intensive, and I'll try and do some myself, but I feel like the ship designs would benefit from perspective views, or at least views from more than one direction to better get an idea of the shape and general layout.

That pretty much covers my comments on the new stuff.  Now I need to get to work on my own concept sketches.


Thanks for the detailed feeback on the outfits and ships ! Smile

For the ships, yeah I should have made a separate picture for them and put them in a background that feels like space. That would do a lot to give them a sense of scale I think. As well as, indeed, some perspective views.

Well for the final page I'll do just that and separate it in two distinct pictures One for ships and vehicles, one for outfits and armors.

As for the carrier.... yeah somehow it ended up with only 4 launchbays ^^;  Not very carrier-ish at all lol. I'll make sure to correct that as well.


felarya_refugee wrote:
You still didn't do any feminine outfits for the Vishmital, Sir Karbo! sobsob I am going to presume that Vishmital dress code is unisex? Or is this just for the males on the full dress uniform  and BDUs?

As for which three I like best it is four, five and seven.

Oh no no I haven't forgotten ! In the final colored page I promise there will be both the outfit for both sexes side by sides XD

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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:14 pm

You're welcome.  I look forward to the final pieces.

As for the carrier, it's less the number of launch bays and more the size.  I'll admit to being partial to the long axial launch bays from an aesthetic standpoint, but I also think they make the most sense; one of the primary functions of a carrier would be to give its fighters a good amount of acceleration on launch so the fighters have an easier time getting to where they're going, and a long launch bay is best for that.  Here's a few examples of the sort of thing I'm thinking of:
Spoiled for image size:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:23 pm

Great references Smile
Although I'm not sure a carrier in space really needs long launching pads to allow smaller ships to take off ? Since space engines would probably be able to reach a very high speed very fast. But I do agree they look neat XD

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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:36 am

Karbo wrote:
Great references Smile
Although I'm not sure a carrier in space really needs long launching pads to allow smaller ships to take off ? Since space engines would probably be able to reach a very high speed very fast. But I do agree they look neat XD

This is true. Most ships have launch bays built into the ship itself. This is partially defensive and partially more practical. I've never seen a battle carrier designed for space that carries it's fighter escorts on top of the craft. One exception might be a Yuuzhan Vong 'World Ship'. They were so big they could carry entire groups of battle cruisers attached to themselves. However two notations there to pay attention to:
1: World Ship's are meant to cross the distance between Galaxies and thus are vaster than even SGA's flying city ship, like massively.
2: They are organic tech.
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PostSubject: Re: Fleshing out Vishmitals   Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:57 am

Oh, I doubt fighters would actually be carried on the outside of carriers, though it's entirely feasible to have the launch catapults on the outside and hangers on the inside.

And at least half my preference for long axial launch bays is simply aesthetic, as it's a recognizable indication of a carrier, though on a practical side, any initial velocity provided by the carrier on launch is velocity that the fighter gets for free (though the Vishmital aren't really hard science enough to the point where we're looking at particularly strict delta-v requirements). It would make a lot of sense to use the axial launch bay for heavier craft, longer-range missions, and missions where the fighters need to carry a lot of stuff, while the side bays would be used for lighter craft and short-range missions, such as combat air patrols.
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