General Q and A

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Well unless there's a world somewhere that's making magic mobile phones and has multiversal travel, Negav isn't going to have many of them.

Negav can't manufacture that kind of thing themselves. They don't have the manufacturing infrastructure along with the raw materials.
Mobile phones of any sort are going to have to be imported. But they won't be. Why? because they will only work in one place, Negav. They're useless outside it or any of the few and far between places that have mobile phone service towers, which would also have to be imported. If a major part breaks, it has to be imported. Mobile phones are not cheap even in this world where we manufacture them locally. On a world where almost everything of a high tech level is imported, mobile phones aren't going to be popular.

The reason that 3rd world countries on Earth have mobile phones is because the infrastructure is already there, provided by 1st world countries (and countries like china) that have the manufacturing base to produce poorly made, throwaway mobile phones relatively cheaply.
In Negav, importing cheaply made goods like that isn't a good idea because the cost of importing them will probably jack up the price enough that the quality of the phones doesn't justify the price. There are no spare parts or anything available.

The most likely thing is CB radios since they are small, simpler than mobile phones and require no infrastructure to function.

(What I said above also applies to computers. If your computer breaks you can get a spare part for a relativity cheap price. But in Negav it won't be like that. Computers wll be imported, but onlyfor rich people form specalised purposes.

Im sure theres way to build with materiles avilable on felarya the way you talk makes it sond like felarya has only 4 resorces air water wood and maigic. Im preaty sure theres mor then that..... And you also make it sound like people that live on felarya cant make things them selves and are 100% reling on off world saply for every thing witch would not and can not sapourt a town mach less a city.

And you only look at it as in "oh if its not done on earth or some where eals it cant exsit in felarya" But do to what felarya is there should be tech and magic or even a combation of the two like no one has ever seen befor. I have seen place set up to use mana to power battle suits space ships and a maigc bacded internet type thing in a web comic. So felarya should not be simply limted to what other world give it.

Another problem with these communication methods other than lack of infrastructure to both build and propagate is the very nature of Felarya itself.



Felarya doesn't have the same sky, day or night, as it did the previous experience of. You can't use satellites because the atmosphere caps and the world isn't a planet. You can't use radio towers because they would become dilapidated or outright destroyed by the denizens. Due to the atmosphere changing you can't reliably use ionosphere bounce like with AM radio. In Felarya you have to rely on surface and space waves (both of which are ground transmission types, the former goes over the surface of the earth and relies on conductivity of the soil and the latter travels above the surface between transmission towers - which as described are going to be difficult to come by). Even such things as CB radios become difficult to use, because the varying stars will have an unpredictable solar zenith pattern - and CB radios are affected by the cosmic rays of our sun's solar zenith.



You could build ELF transmitters theoretically, but once again Felarya throws you a curveball and on occasion entire chunks of the soil go byebye. ELF transmitter stations are huge, requiring separation between electrodes of up to 60km. They are incredibly inefficient systems, typically requiring their own dedicated power plant. As of to date, only two nations have ever built ELF transmitters - the USA and USSR - for use with submarines. The benefit to them is that you can receive their transmissions anywhere - which would mean that presuming Negav could actually build such a system, you could have dedicated radio transmissions received by anyone in Felarya with the proper equipment - but they themselves would be unable to transmit back. Due to the logistics of such devices, I highly doubt Negav has one. Also, Negav isn't big enough for one anyway.


This once again leaves us back at direct transmission, which suffers from a variety of everchanging variables. It would be unreliable at best outside of the dedicated range (ie inside of the city) and thus useless to explorers and adventurers.


The high tech societies (Vish, Miratan, Delurans) can circumnavigate this problem using quantum communication methods as these can be extremely simple devices with the appropriate technobabble (or not; it has been proven on macro scales [using blocks of silver material I believe it was] that you can indeed manipulate quantum spin from extreme distances without transmission through space, though we are obviously still not at quantum computing just yet; last I heard there was a simplistic quantum computer that had been created with an accuracy rate of algorithms involving a rather low number of bits at 96%). Obviously, this technology isn't going to belong to a commoner. My society uses beamlinks and hypertransmissions for communication which relies on the use of technobabble microsingularities (stuff we've been doing in labs for nearly a decade now that still remains mostly theoretical in nature). As long as you can put for a little effort here, you can make something that doesn't seem like a handwave.


Of course, you could also use magic. Even cross it if you want. I imagine the piezoelectric effect combined with some magic crystals would work quite well for transmission capabilities. Take said magic crystal, harmonize with another crystal, make one crystal vibrate at a frequency thus its partner does the same, viola, hypertransmission without quantum maths. There is room to work here if you want. You're just not going to see the things that we are used to. I imagine that several businesses use computers on Negav, but their idea of a computer is most likely some sort of data storage and recollection vault that combines technology and magic to work. Something like Nyselyn, my AI construct character, would be a completely alien concept to them.

yeah see now that what i mean dont think in normale turn. "You show me a mad man ill show you a genus." -i forgit where thats from

Some very interesting thoughts here. I'm always amazed byt the grasp at science of some members of that community

Personnaly I see computers as a product of an already quite advanced society. I could imagine some in Negav indeed but I don't think it would be a widespread technology.. As I see it, Negav is an interesting mix between tech and magic indeed, but it's still more oriented toward magic and lower tech. The fact magiocrats are in power is not stranger to that.

1)Excuse me the only raw material Negav Possess it's the Ascarlin.
2)Negav send its Acarlin to other worlds, it means multidimensional trades.
3)Many things of the city looks imported like the canons and the Xythium for the wall is not a metal manufactured inside the town but imported.
4) I quote the wiki:

wiki wrote:

Most normal transactions on Felarya are made in skevols, the local currency, minted by Negav. Larger ones are in Faldong gems or various local gemstones, and the greatest exchanges (such as buying a space battle cruiser or an imperial palace) being negotiated in pure ascarlin.

It seems with Ascarlin you can offer very expansive things, in Negav Market you can find many exotic, rare and valuable things more expansive than a simple car. A good computer and a cell phone are cheaper than a car including the importation bill, they are still cheaper. The importation is not a problem due to Negav's exportation of Ascarlin can largely absorbed the price of any importation.

Other points if it's still expansive some products can be exported into separated piece and assembled on place. In freight, the price of a goods vary according to it's weight not and the nature of the goods, the heavier a product the more expansive will be it's freight.

I quote the wiki again :

Wiki wrote:

The nearby Ascarlin mines has caused the city to rapidly grow, covering over 90 square miles.

By judging this sentence, the business of Ascarlin is very prolific. Computers can be very widespread technologies due to the influence of traveller coming from high advanced worlds, their advantages are not negligible. They are very helpful in many side of the daily life. They are not very expansive due to the fact it's a constant evolving technologies which makes in six month or less the price of a new material drop quick. For professional applications you don't need to buy the last machine. An advanced world can easily exported very cheap model to Negav without difficulties.

Seriously, it's a bit paradoxical because many people thinks about idea of complex and exotic solutions but something more mundane and cheaper, they are telling you it's impossible.

I have a question. The scenario itself may seem a bit implausible. Let's put the factors of digestion and cannibalism aside and discuss the magic itself.

Okay, let's say there's a group of 5 fairies.

Fairy 1 gets swallowed by Fairy 2 who then shrinks to the size of 10 cm.

Fairy 2 is then swallowed by Fairy 3, who also shrinks down to 10 cm.

We repeat this until Fairy 5 swallows Fairy 4. It then shrinks down to 10 cm.

Now, Fairy 5 regurgitates Fairy 4, who in turn does the same with Fairy 3, and so on.

Would Fairy 1 maintain all of the size changes she went through whiel in the stomach, meaning she would be about, if we assume a 10 cm fairy has a 1 cm stomach... hmm... 10 microns, making her a bit bigger than the size of a red blood cell, give or take.

Would this be possible?

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1)Excuse me the only raw material Negav Possess it's the Ascarlin.

That is not really accurate. Ascarlin is still on the rarer end of minerals in Felarya, and while there is a lot in the Ascarlin Mountains, it isn't the only thing there. Negav mines and trades a massive amount of other rare, valuable, or just plain useful (Actinite, for example) minerals as well.

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It seems with Ascarlin you can offer very expansive things, in Negav Market you can find many exotic, rare and valuable things more expansive than a simple car. A good computer and a cell phone are cheaper than a car including the importation bill, they are still cheaper. The importation is not a problem due to Negav's exportation of Ascarlin can largely absorbed the price of any importation.

Keep in mind, the Magiocrats hold exclusive control over the Ascarlin trade, and most of the rare minerals for that matter. Most Negavians are not super-rich, or have access to stuff that can make them rich. The actual Ascarlin trade only puts money in the Magiocrats' pockets, and they use that to import offworld technology, as well as food, supplies, and other things that can't be made in Negav in sufficient numbers.

Once again, I don't see cell phones being that common. For that, you need to build up an infrastructure to support them. Then there's the fact that a cell phone would be completely useless outside the city walls. Walkie-talkies and CB radios are far more practical, and are a lot cheaper and simpler than cell phones.

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By judging this sentence, the business of Ascarlin is very prolific. Computers can be very widespread technologies due to the influence of traveller coming from high advanced worlds

Computers aren't going to be widespread. Their main functions today are for calculations, word processing (which would also require a printer), record-keeping, gaming and the internet. The main reason computers have become so ubiquitous in our society today is because we live a largely sedentary lifestyle, at least compared to older generations.

Some people would likely have computers, most likely merchants in the middle and high districts. They would have easier access to Negav's electrical grid, something poorer people in the low district and pit wouldn't. Keep in mind, MOST of Negav's population is located within the low district and The Pit. They aren't going to have the money for computers, they probably aren't going to have steady access a source of electricity, if at all, and they don't really have an overpowering need to go out and buy them.

Its not so much about what is possible, its about what is practical. Negav isn't some uber high-tech place. Computers and phones and what-not aren't everywhere. There is a mixture of some more advanced technologies in Negav, sure, but that isn't the norm. Its all just one big jumble of old and new.

AisuKaiko wrote:

I have a question. The scenario itself may seem a bit implausible. Let's put the factors of digestion and cannibalism aside and discuss the magic itself.

Okay, let's say there's a group of 5 fairies.

Fairy 1 gets swallowed by Fairy 2 who then shrinks to the size of 10 cm.

Fairy 2 is then swallowed by Fairy 3, who also shrinks down to 10 cm.

We repeat this until Fairy 5 swallows Fairy 4. It then shrinks down to 10 cm.

Now, Fairy 5 regurgitates Fairy 4, who in turn does the same with Fairy 3, and so on.

Would Fairy 1 maintain all of the size changes she went through whiel in the stomach, meaning she would be about, if we assume a 10 cm fairy has a 1 cm stomach... hmm... 10 microns, making her a bit bigger than the size of a red blood cell, give or take.

Would this be possible?

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Mind Fuck!

Seriously though, that's actually a very good, if incredibly silly, question.

Perhaps the range a fairy can shrink/grow is decreased depending on how full they are.

rcs619 wrote:

That is not really accurate. Ascarlin is still on the rarer end of minerals in Felarya, and while there is a lot in the Ascarlin Mountains, it isn't the only thing there. Negav mines and trades a massive amount of other rare, valuable, or just plain useful (Actinite, for example) minerals as well.

I don't see why they won't sell some of them for manufactured goods, trading raw material for manufactured goods many societies use since the old times.

rcs619 wrote:

Keep in mind, the Magiocrats hold exclusive control over the Ascarlin trade, and most of the rare minerals for that matter. Most Negavians are not super-rich, or have access to stuff that can make them rich. The actual Ascarlin trade only puts money in the Magiocrats' pockets, and they use that to import offworld technology, as well as food, supplies, and other things that can't be made in Negav in sufficient numbers.

And we forget the vishmintals a high advanced factions who are the direct opponents of the magiocrats. The power of the magiocrats rellies mainly on the isolon eyes not the ascarlin.

rcs619 wrote:

Once again, I don't see cell phones being that common. For that, you need to build up an infrastructure to support them.

Sorry but the structures for cell phones are less expansive and cheaper than the traditional phone lines or radio or television antennas.

rcs619 wrote:

Then there's the fact that a cell phone would be completely useless outside the city walls. Walkie-talkies and CB radios are far more practical, and are a lot cheaper and simpler than cell phones.

Until now the solution I suggested was only for Negav not outside. And sorry the tools you use in your daily city life few are not made for exploration of Jungle.

[quote"rcs619"]Computers aren't going to be widespread. Their main functions today are for calculations, word processing (which would also require a printer), record-keeping, gaming and the internet. The main reason computers have become so ubiquitous in our society today is because we live a largely sedentary lifestyle, at least compared to older generations. [/quote]
These functions you describe allow the development of an infinities applications which are very useful in many domains. Computer are very valued not for their functions but what they allow people to do. A computer don't need to be very complex and developed it has just to have the required configuration for the job you want it does. For example the mainframes used to manage important flow of data, in overall the technologies used it's the same since 1970. Why they don't develop a new system why because it does what they does.
For the printer you need only one connected into private network of a company or a company selling printing service it's not a big deal.

You will be surprised but mobile technologies are priced by many nomadic tribes in our world. The new technologies are developed to be more mobile and easier to transport and interest many population which not used to buy them because it suits better to their need and they are less cumbersome than their ancestors. It's not a matter of sedentary or not.

[quote"rcs619"]Some people would likely have computers, most likely merchants in the middle and high districts. They would have easier access to Negav's electrical grid, something poorer people in the low district and pit wouldn't. Keep in mind, MOST of Negav's population is located within the low district and The Pit. They aren't going to have the money for computers, they probably aren't going to have steady access a source of electricity, if at all, and they don't really have an overpowering need to go out and buy them. [/quote]
It's still not a problem. They still can have the old model abandoned by people of the upper district. Because in long term there is a drop in the price made the older model become very cheap and free in some case. Because they have no value but they are still useful.

[quote"rcs619"]Its not so much about what is possible, its about what is practical. Negav isn't some uber high-tech place. Computers and phones and what-not aren't everywhere. There is a mixture of some more advanced technologies in Negav, sure, but that isn't the norm. Its all just one big jumble of old and new. [/quote]
You lost yourself. The question of computer and network technologies for Negav and not for the whole world of Felarya.

Until now I say computer and a internet-like network is possible inside Negav I never say everywhere in Felarya, It's not a matter or norm, Negav has the potential to develop this kind of infrastructure. It will be limited to the city and never leave their wall and what's the matter it's something develop to suit the urban environment of Negav not Felarya itself.

This kind of technologies don't need to be particularly advanced to be implemented. Computers don't need to be specially advanced to be practical.

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And we forget the vishmintals a high advanced factions who are the direct opponents of the magiocrats. The power of the magiocrats rellies mainly on the isolon eyes not the ascarlin.

The Vishmitals never struck me as a particularly trade oriented race. Their one unifying goal is the desire to recreate their long-dead empire. Plus, they aren't particularly good with magic, and likely don't have the knowledge or skilled people to maintain and operate the dimensional gate, which, given that the Ur-Sagolians, or Ur-Sagolian tech was involved, is probably a magi-tech based device.

The Magiocrats' main sources of power are the Isolon Eye, the Isolon Fist, and the massive amount of money they make from the Ascarlin trade, and the maintenance of the dimensional gate.

The Vishmitals' main influece comes from the fact that they have a decent sized military of their own, and they are the only ones who know how to maintain and operate all the complex machinary and weapons that act as Negav's second line of defense.

You just need to remember what Negav is supposed to be. It has some advanced offworld tech mixed in, but that is not the norm. Cell phones and the widespread use of computers just is not practical for most of Negav, and it doesn't fit in with the feel of the place. Not to mention the practical issues, like the fact that the low district and The Pit (Most of Negav's population is located in these two districts), probably have little, if any access to the city electrical grid (and they probably couldn't afford it anyway), and if electrical usage is taxed, they are going to stick with more practical devices, like lights, radios, and such.

Walkie-talkies and CB radios are fine. They serve the function of communication, but are much cheaper, simpler and easier to implement. There probably ARE some computers, but its going to be extremely limited. There's no internet, which means direct computer-to-computer networking will be required, and that's assuming the two computers' technology is even compatible (You'd need to make sure they are from the same world, probably, for it to work).

Negav is a mixture. Swords, knives, pistols, torches, light bulbs, lanterns, quill and parchment, paper and pen, radios, and so on. Its a big mix of medieval and modern, of the technological and magical.

If I may throw that in, I already said it, but I think most people just keep forgetting the science part of Negav too often. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who mentionned buses and computers in-stories. I don't want to see the advanced technology aspect as an afterthought. I think it could be really great if people moved away from the magic aspect for a bit. True, the mages are the leaders, but I think it's been established that they would have never made it this far without advanced science, which few people touch upon.

@rcs619

Until now I don't what is your problem.
You say cellular phone and computers are expansive this wrong because their price drop constantly even a four years old computer can be acquired by a negavians.
Classical radios and television are more expansive t

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The Magiocrats' main sources of power are the Isolon Eye, the Isolon Fist, and the massive amount of money they make from the Ascarlin trade, and the maintenance of the dimensional gate.

Do you realize it's far more expansive than to develop cellular and computer inside the cities. A small percentage is enough to develop this kind of infrastructure inside the whole city. You are just showing the magiocrats are dictator who think only about their personal interest but even that I don't see why it will be an issue. Unless they do an extreme aggressive policies against technologies and even that it won't be an issue.

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You just need to remember what Negav is supposed to be. It has some advanced offworld tech mixed in, but that is not the norm. Cell phones and the widespread use of computers just is not practical for most of Negav, and it doesn't fit in with the feel of the place. Not to mention the practical issues, like the fact that the low district and The Pit (Most of Negav's population is located in these two districts), probably have little, if any access to the city electrical grid (and they probably couldn't afford it anyway), and if electrical usage is taxed, they are going to stick with more practical devices, like lights, radios, and such.

All this issue can be resolved easily.
Your head is very hard, the price of this kind of goods constantly drops which make in long term they became cheaper, and you don't need a particular level of high-tech to have them. About the supply in energy it's easier to resolve. They are just technical not practical issues.

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Walkie-talkies and CB radios are fine. They serve the function of communication, but are much cheaper, simpler and easier to implement. There probably ARE some computers, but its going to be extremely limited. There's no internet, which means direct computer-to-computer networking will be required, and that's assuming the two computers' technology is even compatible (You'd need to make sure they are from the same world, probably, for it to work).

*facepalm*
Admit you know nothing about computer science and it will be ok.
Read my previous post or document yourself it's possible to develop internet of the size of the cities easier and cheaper than old the technologies you quote as example, computer science is more flexible and adaptable and it's not necessary expansive. All the issue you argued with me it's just because it's threaten you CB radio ideas.
The technology level is not an issue.

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Negav is a mixture. Swords, knives, pistols, torches, light bulbs, lanterns, quill and parchment, paper and pen, radios, and so on. Its a big mix of medieval and modern, of the technological and magical.

And why computers can't be implemented easier. So you are just doing what I'm calling in french "De la mauvaise foi."

We will stop here because you are falling in my esteem.

Right, that's enough. This computer debate needs it's own thread. This is the General Q & A thread, it is not the place to discuss it.

I think as far as internet is considered, it would be more aptly described as an intranet. The network in Felarya would most likely participate the same as the original CERN use for it, though obviously expanded from the original base described. Probably advancing into something along the same lines as Rama and BSG. I don't think you would see the same widespread deployment, as most of those that stay in Negav don't have the access to go to other places, or choose to not go to them. The social development side of it would be limited, as those who would bring such a system to the city would prefer to simply maintain access to what they have rather than trying to create a separate grid, unless there was money in it. Specially along the lines as business infrastructure for those that maintain an 'off-world' presence.

Speaking of Internet, my advanced race, the Eddenians, actually uses small relays buried in the ground which then connects to other relays, creating a literal cyber net, as an alternative to satellite GPS. The major, and obvious downside, is that they are restricted to zones they have already explored.

@aethernavale: I prefer use the term internet than intranet because intranet is more internal to a specific organization, internet is a newtork of network not a global network. As I see the infrastructure are internal to negav, the maintenance of the line can be overcome by wireless connections many cities used wireless access spot than classical lines when they deal with public connections the maintenance is easier and cheaper than lines, the price too because you don't invest for lines. The traditonnal lines system suited better for specific location like administrations, headquartes where the connections need to be more direct and regulates. Wireless = large audience, lines = private or intyernal structures.

Wow, this got out of hand. Can we calm the place down please?

Where exactly do Nemesises live in Felarya? They don't seem like a race you would find in places such as Negav (unless they keep their race secret and aren't affected by the Eye)?

Actually yes they can be found in Negav mostly. But they are rare.

Question. Does the accelerated evolution in the Miragia forest and other areas effect individuals over time or is the effect gradual over generations?

ie: If a naga showed up there one day, could he/she slowly gain adaptations, or would the evolution have to be gradual along whole family lines, tribes, ect. that live there?

I believe that it would have to be over generations, given how you can't just suddenly sprout useful traits. Evolution probably has a greater noticeable affect within one or two generations, producing unique descendants.

Whether or not the effects are similar to the evolution seen in the movie "Evolution" or the movie "Aberration" is unknown to me.

Now here is a question. Seeing as Quaz can gather every form of Felaryian insect to his aid in an instant, would this include insect-based taurs as well?

Jasconius wrote:

I believe that it would have to be over generations, given how you can't just suddenly sprout useful traits. Evolution probably has a greater noticeable affect within one or two generations, producing unique descendants.

Whether or not the effects are similar to the evolution seen in the movie "Evolution" or the movie "Aberration" is unknown to me.

Now here is a question. Seeing as Quaz can gather every form of Felaryian insect to his aid in an instant, would this include insect-based taurs as well?

Addendum: Do worms, slugs, snails, scorpions, spiders and such count as insects to Quaz?

Sean Okotami wrote:

Jasconius wrote:

I believe that it would have to be over generations, given how you can't just suddenly sprout useful traits. Evolution probably has a greater noticeable affect within one or two generations, producing unique descendants.

Whether or not the effects are similar to the evolution seen in the movie "Evolution" or the movie "Aberration" is unknown to me.

Now here is a question. Seeing as Quaz can gather every form of Felaryian insect to his aid in an instant, would this include insect-based taurs as well?

Addendum: Do worms, slugs, snails, scorpions, spiders and such count as insects to Quaz?

Knowing Quaz is a scorpion.