Predator Sense

Feadraug wrote:

Kind of tricky. Though I agree that for angels and demons it makes more sense the fact they should feel the presence of a soul and not rely on some 'magical predator sense', the darkness/purity factor shouldn't be a factor of detection at all. Souls are souls and despite having different ranks of purity/darkness, these shouldn't influence how they are detected. At least that's what I think.

PS: Finally, regarding something Cliff said about "fairies antenna being good for something", what if the fairy has no antenna at all? (though looking at how the thread has gone, I think it has been discarded, or at least forgotten or left aside)

Well, it makes sense in the way that, they must know which soul is the most apropriate for their realm; demons are attracted by dark souls, angels by pure souls, they must have some kind of way to detect them.

Quote :

Wiki: Demons capture souls tainted by evil and bring them here...
Wiki: Pure souls are brought there by angelic psychopomps ...

Actually, I think this sense is already fairly known, but has never been put in this context ^^

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As for antenas, well, as this "predator sense" is something still learnable by other magical creatures, i would say it works as a kind of boost; something that makes it easier for them than anybody else (and yea they are cute =P)

Yes, it is pretty much known which angels and demons' preferences are towards purity of souls. I was just speaking in the matters of detecting souls. Purity is just a plus for each part, so they can tell each apart, but not important for detecting a soul.

And I don't know if antennae are cute, but I think that a fairy with no antenna can be cute too. xD

I have only been around for almost a year, but I thought I'd throw in my two sense: I agree with rcs619:

rcs619 wrote:

Honestly, this would make Felarya MORE dangerous, since preds would be getting new ways of detecting prey. Things you can't dodge by learning to suppress your magical signature. It would help show off their more inhuman aspects, which is something that really does tend to get glossed over in a lot of stories.

I think that in most stories the less human side of the preds gets glossed over, most of them act human and make little or no use of their different (more advanced) bodies. I think that it would really serve to put some depth into the preditorial system, as well as make things more interesting to write, and enable more things to go wrong, without making the preds seem like misshapen over-powered voracious humans, which, although that's not what they are, that is the impression I get from most stories (some of the less experienced writers out there- like me, need a little help not to mess up a good idea). As a writer (on break- I loath school) I think that this would help make everything seem more tangible and natural, but also less (dang I can't think of the word for I'm thinking...) video-gameish? I feel like in a lot of stories there are two types of preds: the pred that you get to know and befriend, and the overpowered pred that senses you from miles away, comes out of nowhere, takes you and eats you, then vanishes.


I hesitating before posting this, I don't want to sound like I'm slamming or that I don't like predator sense, I just think it could do with a little more refining. I think that they are being used as an arbitrary natural disaster- if you want to kill or panic people, send in a random pred.- and I feel that this takes quite a lot of tangibility away from it as well as degrading the pred involved.


Anyway, this discussion definitely helped with my understanding of pred sense, which was fairly broad. Thanks!

Oh, yah, also something to think about: what about other types of magic? Would they be able to sense those, or just mana? I really think that this is a great idea here, it just needs some fleshing-out and refining to fit species, sub-species, and characters. It has a lot of potential, but the current thing is so vague that it only scratches the surface of the possibilities.

fwyrl, I must give you proper recognition for that post. It is full of truth and I agree with it.
Except for the part where you mention mana.

Fwyrl makes quite a good point. Some predators seem to not utilize everything at their disposal. They usually don't take on the skills bestowed by their animal side, or they don't take advantage of the hybridized skills they could use.

It could definitely need looking at.

Surely, that's a good point. That's why I'd like the "predator sense" to be something more loose, because there are so many options at our disposal, ie. use animal instinct or human intelligence or magic detection or a mix of either of them.

That is essentially what Stabs had proposed. I maintain that while it could be the norm for certain species, this should not be the one and only way a certain creature track down preys. Cutting something away entirely isn't the best of solution, and in this case, presenting alternatives would be much more worthwhile. As I said before, if this predator sense requires a highly magical creature, why can't it be a skill that a mage develop? Mages among predators, excluding certain ones, are already uncommon as it is.

Honestly, I really don't think we can suddenly say nagas don't have the predator sense.
p50 of the Tome 3 of the Manga : you have a two page scene with Crisis explaining how it works and stating clearly that nagas have it. Sorry, but if we change that, this is going to be very confusing...
It fits nagas as well since they are supposed to be a highly magical species, hence why they are divided into elemental affinities.

Didn't we recently classify nagas by common species and their elemental affinity usually coincide to their environment, but not always?

yes indeed

Tossing my two cents into this thread (I shall use Canadian currency as apposed to American however, as it is worth a little more at this time.)
I don't see the need to remove the predator sense from any of the species listed, and I don't like the idea for individuals to be able to learn it as that will simply cause a flood of stories where every predator has it. What I would like to see would be slightly different predator senses for the species that have them. While their function and limitations are almost exactly alike how each species perceive it would differ for example;
A naga might feel the magic like vibrations through the ground, while a deerataur might hear the hum of magic. By linking the predator sense to senses that humans already have it makes it easier for the author to describe, as well as for the reader to relate to.

Well guys if nagas, compared to fairies, could use an explanation as to why they are known as one of the main users of the magi-pred sense, we could just say that they have much more of their body surface touching the soil of Felarya at any given time than many other races, making them a nice sponge for its magic. This greater exposure helps them develop affinities in their environment and can make them aware of other things with strong magical fields, should they sharpen that "sense."


Slug-girls don't receive the same benefits due to their slime mucking up their connection with the soil...?

:V Whatcha think?

/Fish/ wrote:

Slug-girls don't receive the same benefits due to their slime mucking up their connection with the soil...?

:V Whatcha think?

Down with slug girl repression?

Nah, slug girls already have a supreme sense of smell.

Karbo wrote:

Honestly, I really don't think we can suddenly say nagas don't have the predator sense.
p50 of the Tome 3 of the Manga : you have a two page scene with Crisis explaining how it works and stating clearly that nagas have it. Sorry, but if we change that, this is going to be very confusing...
It fits nagas as well since they are supposed to be a highly magical species, hence why they are divided into elemental affinities.

How many times do I need to say it?

That part doesn't get changed at all.

Crisis, was raised by fairies her whole life.

She's probably very rarely ever met her own kind (I don't count vivian since its obvious she isn't a Felaryan naga).

The time she's spent with Anna is probably the longest she's spent with one of her own kind, and Anna isn't even a true naga.

Crisis really could THINK all nagas have her sense. Just because a character says something doesn't mean its 100% true. Most characters don't know everything that's going on in their own stories. Especially in a setting as vast as Felarya. It would be a mystery to its own residents.

Im not giving up on this. This idea is good, and we NEED to revise and bring the "predator sense" into order. I am so sick of its rules being all vague and ill-defined. Its just lazy, and exploitable and annoying as hell to deal with or try to explain. This has been needing to be changed for years, just like the sizes, just like the naga species, just like all the other aspects of old-Felarya that haven't aged particularly well.

Nagas do not need it, Fairies do. Sure, nagas are magically inclined, but the thought that they are nearly as gifted as fairies, or even elves is just laughable.

...
Look it's not a question of giving up your ideas. Like I said they are good, well described and could be implemented, yes.

However I'm not for not coming back on something that has been laid out for so long, used in many stories, including the manga, and is working just fine.

You say that now...

But with time, and a healthy application of ponies, anything is possible!

Mwuahahaha

Glad you liked the other 90% of my ideas though ^^

lol... just at the moment where I'm actually going to go ahead and watch that thing XP

My personal opinion is it needs to be limited, but then my image of it seems to be clashing with what was officially written in the Manga (the multi-mile individual sense) so it's already against the grain. Being able to sense things that accurately from that far out leads to issues and ready-solved problems very readily. "We need to find the mage who cursed me!" "He's two miles to the south-southeast, along with what feels like two Neko mages and an Elf of some sort." "Goody!"

Also makes almost any plot point of a "Prey" escaping a Giant Predator without being an accomplished mage or of a party of several dozen / over a hundred near impossible (as assuming it takes about a minute to grab and eat someone the runners would all still be within their Predator Sense radius by the 60th victim) unless you start invoking other fauna (of which it's a common trait in stories to make anything short of a 'Beast pack or a few hundred Spine Beetles / Bloodclaw Apes ignorable by a Giant Predator, and by that point the runner isn't getting far). The only real solution to such would be to even further decrease the Giant Predator population density, so that there's "lapses" in the bubbles that someone could pass through. Otherwise, if it's a common ability, there would be an unerring ability for every group that's not classified "hard enough" to be ambushed in short order.

I realize one of the major focuses (if not the overall main one) for Felarya is the Giant Predators, but another theme is "Adventure", and a very prevalent, highly powerful Predator Sense basically changes it from "Adventure for everyone" to "Adventure for Giant Predators and Epic-level Parties".

As far as I know, the predator sense isn't THAT accurate. If a human (or whatever) is far away, she might barely know that "there is something in that direction", but won't know exactly where. In the way I see it, it's more like it opens a "cone" in that direction, and not a straight line; the farthest, the wider is the area in which he can be, the closest, the smaller.

I have another question, hopefully not as seperate-thread-making as the first one I asked, about pred sense.

Can a pred focus on one thing and still pay attention to their pred sense? For example, if a fairy was busy feasting, would she still notice other things with her sense, or do they have to focus in order for it to be of any use to them?

I don't think so as it would require to split her attention between two things. It may be possible for someone to focus on two things at once, but not untrained.

Well, the predator sense is still a sense, and so I guess it works the same way the other ones do (hearing, sight, etc.)
Sometimes you don't see something until you decide to look closely, or dont hear something in particular until someones tells you to pay attetion; I guess in this case it works the same way.
When focusing on something in particular, you may completely miss something coming from you other senses. So well, like Sean said, it may be possible for someone to focus on two things at once, but not untrained.

This information might prove very helpful in writing my story, thank you.

Though, I'm sure Crisis would count as one of those individuals who has trained to be able to pay attention to one thing and keep track of another using her pred sense at the same time, right? I'd better remember that, unless I'm wrong.

Hm, anyone here familiar with elder scrolls IV: oblivion?

There is a spell called "detect life" and when cast, you see what looks like purple-ish cloud forms in the distance. You can tell that there's an enemy or creep over there, but you don't know who it is. Hell, most of the time you cant tell whether its a minotaur, black bear, or a bandit. Just like predator sense - you can tell there's someone over there, but you don't know who it is. Since Felarya (RL version) doesn't have video game mechanics- the predators using the sense would be able to feel the intensity of the magic in a being in a certain distance. Judging from that, you "might" be able to tell whether that magic is condensed into a small form, or not. You would be able to vaguely tell how far they are, either "it feels pretty close" "it feels pretty far" or whatever. Of course there could be spells to mess with that though.

Mages might be able to fool a predator by making it seem their magic is closer to a predator that it really is.



You can see in the first 20 seconds the purple cloud over living things identifies that they're alive and in that direction. Kind of like that, but a pred would "smell" them and not see their magical aura standing out so much.

As for a predator sense for mages, I imagine it'd be more like a spell you enchant on yourself, your eyes glow just a bit, and the mage can see the traces of magic in larger creatures, or anyone with a big enough magical signature. Higher levels of the spell would be more accurate, but they wont be able to "smell" people like the predators with the sense can.

rcs619 wrote:

Dridders often line their territory with various small strands of webbing, usually all coming together in the dridder's den or web. The legs of a dridder are extremely sensitive to movement and vibration, allowing her to sense even the tiniest movement caused by someone disturbing one of her security web-lines. The intensity of the vibration can give a good indication of size or strenght, and with webs spread out all over, a dridder could even monitor an intruder or potential prey item's movement through her territory as it hits on different signal lines. If it is not heading for her den, the dridder will have more then enough information on the intruder to know its general location and whether or not it would be worth going to investigate it.

I rephrased a bit the entry of dridders in the wiki and added some of your description on how they can feel movement through their webs. So please tell me if you agree with the disclaimer ^^