A Fairy Friend Did It

Okay, this is something I need to address, and so I need my trusty soapbox again: the Fairy Friend excuse. I'm starting to see this pop around a lot as a mean to handwave problems. Need to have a set of giant clothes? A Fairy Friend did it. How did a giant find a giant book? A Fairy Friend did it. Need to have a coffee mug super huge-ified, despite the mere fact that the coffee mug existing, or that a giant dridder would ever have an idea of what it is or care for is in and of itself pretty questionable? A Fairy Friend did it. This is basically the A Wizard Did It of Felarya.

So why are fairies depicted as being super friendly to everything that can't be shrank down? My probably very biased guess is once again due to Crisis, people still thinking she's the prototypical Felaryan Giant Naga, and since she and fairies are friends, people assume that fairies are friendly to other people. Once again, if you analyze her, you'll find out that most typical predators would find her really damn weird, and that the only reason she's friendly to fairies is because a pack of fairies were her surrogate family, and that's why she's friendly to other fairies. As far as we know, this is a unusual occurrence, as only two species are outright stated to be friendly to fairies in the wiki: dryads, because of the whole spirit of nature thing, and elementals, because they're both very magic-centric. Every other species receives no mention it, which makes me believe that their stance is neutral under normal circumstances.

So when a Fairy Friend pops up, I ask myself: When did they meet? Under what circumstances did they meet? Why are they friends? How did they become friends? How do relatives/other friends view this? etc. etc. So far, I have never seen the whole friendship aspect be addressed or explored, and it exists solely to handwave something, usually how can a giant have a giant thing. And that's terrible.

While I agree that using it as an excuse to handwave giant-sized possessions, I do think that it wouldn't be inconcievable for a giant to easily make a fairy friend. All we have to do is look at what we know about fairies. If something is too big to be eaten, then what else is there to do besides make friends, right?

So really, I agree with you in that friendships with fairies could be explored more deeply instead of just being used to handwave something. The fact that it's not a totally uncommin occurance is one more reason to write about it more deeply!

Because fairies is popular with their size-shifting magic, I guess? So commonthat when people  hear the word "shrink" and "enlarge", they immediately associate it with fairies.

Aside from being friend with a fairy to acquire giant things (or small things in case of tinies), there are also various ways to access the same results:
-The predator herself knows size-shifting magic and did it herself.
-The predator asked someone else who knows size-shifting magic to do it for her (like Katrika and her diary, which was enlarged by a mage)
-The predator is not a friend of a fairy, but she can still ask nicely a fairy stranger to do it for her (though results are really random, because the fairy may play a trick by shrinking down the requested item instead, or just refuse and fly away)
-In Felarya, shift happens. Giant things from other worlds that shelters giant people may get ported to Felarya and happened to be found by curious predators.
-These giant things are old-time relics that are passed down through generations.

tkh1304 wrote:

Because fairies is popular with their size-shifting magic, I guess? So commonthat when people  hear the word "shrink" and "enlarge", they immediately associate it with fairies.

Aside from being friend with a fairy to acquire giant things (or small things in case of tinies), there are also various ways to access the same results:
-The predator herself knows size-shifting magic and did it herself.
-The predator asked someone else who knows size-shifting magic to do it for her (like Katrika and her diary, which was enlarged by a mage)
-The predator is not a friend of a fairy, but she can still ask nicely a fairy stranger to do it for her (though results are really random, because the fairy may play a trick by shrinking down the requested item instead, or just refuse and fly away)
-In Felarya, shift happens. Giant things from other worlds that shelters giant people may get ported to Felarya and happened to be found by curious predators.
-These giant things are old-time relics that are passed down through generations.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the first point, as in canon size changing magic is mystical and confined to the fairy species - they refuse to share it's secrets, if they even know it themselves.
Though, yes, fairies are explained as being gregarious, and considering their lazy lifestyle of hedonism and relaxation, expending a bit of energy/magic for a friendly cause probably wouldn't turn most of them off.
They also seem relatively easy to please with simple gifts, especially the ones depicted around the fairy pond.

When dealing with fairy size-shifting, we need to keep in mind that unless the fairy is very proficient at applying size-shifting to an object then the object will eventually revert to it's original size. So if a giant was friends with a fairy and got them to up-scale their clothes or anything else, they would need to be able to reach their fairy friend semi-regularly to get the up-scaling reapplied so their clothes don't explode when they revert to normal. It is mentioned on the wiki here that there are fairies that are well known for their proficiency in size-shifting magic and they are sought after for this skill. The main choices you have when you say a fairy up-scaled a giant's clothes are that the fairy is a close friend that lives not to far from the giant, the giant lives close to an are that fairies frequent and asks for the up-scaling there, or they managed to find one of the fairies proficient with size-changing and were able to get their help.

Actually, size-shifting is not exclusive to fairies.  Fairies are simply the most prominent and probably the best users of that category.  A human mage could cast a size-shifting spell, but it wouldn't be nearly as powerful as a fairy's.  Anyway, to address some of your replies...

Nyaha, it is true that a fairy can become friend with another giant, but then I must ask you: what forces them too?  If I were to meet a stranger, and that for all intents and purposes I am trespassing in ITS territory, why would I go to it and ask it "Yo, let's be friends".  I think I would be far more likely to just pay it no mind and just move along.  And this is the core of the problem with the Fairy Friend excuse, how the two creatures even became friends is never explained, so by all rights, that encounter really did happen like I just described, which again, is just there for the sake of lazy convenience.

tkh, 1. That is a possibility, although other giants that know such spells would be incredibly rare since it's hard to practice magic when you don't have something like a book or other records that tell you what to do to practice magic.

2. Katrika is a bad example.  Recall that she's actually a small naga from another world, Londore, and that she had much more contact with humans than any Felaryan naga probably ever had.  As such, her understanding of humans is far better than the average Felaryan naga, which is why she understands what some of their items are for and would know that humans are also capable of size-shifting magic if properly trained.  Even then, what guarantees that the human mage will cooperate with the giant man-eater?  If anything, it's just as likely that he'll backstab her by putting a curse or something on her, thinking that she'll eat him anyway after he's upheld his end of the bargain.

3. Similar to the second question, that requires the predator to know what the object in question is for and care for it, which that in itself is unlikely.  Then she has to hope and pray that she'll run into a fairy that will be willing to cooperate, and since fairies are stealthy little buggers, being able to shrink down to hide virtually anywhere, that's not very likely.  And that's all assuming the giant in question even knows what a fairy is or what they can do, which given how remote certain regions are, isn't a guarantee and is yet another thing that writers seem to take for granted.

4 and 5. What are the odds of such things happening?  Once again, it's a case of "I'm the author, I can do whatever I want."  Plausible, but ultimately extremely improbable.  Such things would have to be pretty darn significant to become credible entities within the narrative and not just the result of lazy writing, which that in and of itself is a challenge.

Well, thats why I keep my lovely angel around. What many people dont kn ow is that angels actually exceed fairies in size changing potential under the right circumstances as they can even shrink down giants. Of course, for most people it could become hard to explain why angels are present here as they dont just run around like your everyday fairy, but angels are much more likely to help one. :3 I know Juliana des for me~

Shady Knight wrote:

Actually, size-shifting is not exclusive to fairies. �Fairies are simply the most prominent and probably the best users of that category. �A human mage could cast a size-shifting spell, but it wouldn't be nearly as powerful as a fairy's. �Anyway, to address some of your replies...

Nyaha, it is true that a fairy can become friend with another giant, but then I must ask you: what forces them too? �If I were to meet a stranger, and that for all intents and purposes I am trespassing in ITS territory, why would I go to it and ask it "Yo, let's be friends". �I think I would be far more likely to just pay it no mind and just move along. �And this is the core of the problem with the Fairy Friend excuse, how the two creatures even became friends is never explained, so by all rights, that encounter really did happen like I just described, which again, is just there for the sake of lazy convenience.

tkh, 1. That is a possibility, although other giants that know such spells would be incredibly rare since it's hard to practice magic when you don't have something like a book or other records that tell you what to do to practice magic.

2. Katrika is a bad example. �Recall that she's actually a small naga from another world, Londore, and that she had much more contact with humans than any Felaryan naga probably ever had. �As such, her understanding of humans is far better than the average Felaryan naga, which is why she understands what some of their items are for and would know that humans are also capable of size-shifting magic if properly trained. �Even then, what guarantees that the human mage will cooperate with the giant man-eater? �If anything, it's just as likely that he'll backstab her by putting a curse or something on her, thinking that she'll eat him anyway after he's upheld his end of the bargain.

3. Similar to the second question, that requires the predator to know what the object in question is for and care for it, which that in itself is unlikely. �Then she has to hope and pray that she'll run into a fairy that will be willing to cooperate, and since fairies are stealthy little buggers, being able to shrink down to hide virtually anywhere, that's not very likely. �And that's all assuming the giant in question even knows what a fairy is or what they can do, which given how remote certain regions are, isn't a guarantee and is yet another thing that writers seem to take for granted.

4 and 5. What are the odds of such things happening? �Once again, it's a case of "I'm the author, I can do whatever I want." �Plausible, but ultimately extremely improbable. �Such things would have to be pretty darn significant to become credible entities within the narrative and not just the result of lazy writing, which that in and of itself is a challenge.

I believe that I tried to explain a few possible means for giant predators to get their hand on giant items. Of course, not all predators in Felarya will possess such items, so these possibility will  not be applied on the world as a whole. They are just writer's trying to be creative and making logical expression with the reason why a pred has a giant book instead of the usual "a fairy did it". It is the writer's choice if he or she decide to delve into the background story a little more or just leave it with that.

1/ Rare means "there is, but not too many to become common". I agree that the odd may be low to have someone non-fairy to be good at size-shifting  magic, but it does not mean there is not any.

2/ The "Katrika" example is just one way to explain the above mean. Plus, she was not a Felaryan-native naga, which supports the "shift-happens" possibility: an outsider with an off-world items. And size-shaping magic in another world may or may not work like similar to Felarya's fairy magic, so that's why it get enlarged permanently.

3/ Like what people have explained before this post, unless you meet a mean fairy, I can imagine fairies will generously enlarge your stuff if you treat them something nice. Also, there are a lot of things don't need to be stay enlarged permanently to be useful to a predator, such as food, drink, and sometimes books (if you read it quick enough).

4/ Shift happens, carrying along with it alien stuffs and people to Felarya (like the town in the first Felaryan tome). Again, it is another way for the writer to express why predators have giant (and maybe weird-looking compared to a human's standard) items. I found it is fine, as long as the writer are willing to make a little "exploration" story to the alien places, which l found interesting to read.

5/ This depends on the giant's family. It is not common, but still possible. If a giantess' father made a spear out of a giant piece of wood and a some sharpened Kensha Beast's bone, then, of course, she will inherit that spear. And, if the spear is still there when her children are born, the item will get passed down to her next generation and so on.

Again, writers tend to write stories revolving a certain cast of characters who have own stories and background. If he writes the giant pred A gets her giant items from a fairy friend, it does not mean that all other preds also have giant items in the same way. People may think it sounds so "A wizard did it", but if that is the writer's choice to make "a wizard did it" and tries to make ihis story revolving around that, I don't think people can stop him.

1. True, it is possible, but extremely rare, but wouldn't it also be better for the narrative if this unique ability of being a proficient magic user despite lacking many elements to effectively learn magic.

2. How can you say for sure that objects from other worlds react different to magic?  On what ground do you support this claim.  Furthermore, that is not what my point was about.  My point was that Katrika, knowing far more about humans, is entirely aware that a human mage can enlarge and shrink objects like a fairy can.  The point is that the vast majority of other giant predators are most likely unaware of such skill because they have so little contact with humans.

3. This is once again assuming that fairies are all honky-dory with all species, which I claim is very unlikely as this seems hard to believe.  And this also assumes that all predators know what a fairy is, which I once again claim is unlikely.  Someone from, say, Chidokai, a region that has a very small concentration of fairies, if there is any at all, probably know nothing about them.  Your claim hinges on the assumption that fairies and other predators encounter each other so often that knowledge of what they can do and understanding of one another is common knowledge, which again, I say is a stretch.

4. Once again, how often do those shifts happen?  By just handwaving something without truly addressing something, you show that you don't really care the story you write and you expect your readers to just nod and smile without ever questioning anything.  And that's terrible.

5. Crafted items are indeed credible, but you can't say "she just has it", you need to give it a believable origin, like as you said, she crafted a weapon using the bone of a prey she recently killed.  If said weapon is a giant sword, which requires a very complicated set of tools and skills to craft, then you're doing it wrong, especially if you handwave it as having found it, as then you must ask yourself how in the world didn't that thing just rust away.

It's not just the faries though, fairly often it seems like simply being a felarya predator almost guarantees that you are freinds with a good percentage of the predator population (except Dridders, when it comes to the 'death jungle popularity contest' Dridders are the race noone seems to like)

I never liked that when I see it pop up in stories, it merely simplifies a wild chaotic deathworld and turns it merely into a black and white case of 'Humans Vs Maneaters' which is a very human like form of categorizon that simply doesn't happen in mother nature.

Personaly guys I can't cite allot of stories/ or pics where I've seen this used to the point of "over use". Silver Scales is only one I can think of that uses it multiple times and even there it's not really much of an issue to even make Remus a mini-giant because wheras a "good" fairy like Xanthe can grow Remus an evil fairy can shrink him and remove said advantage. XD

As for growing books, cups and plates? Why not? It's darned convenient and sometimes you need a little convenience in a story, because if you don't have some somewhere people will just invent it for themselves in another way. For example instead of using a "fairy friend", subjective term in this case, I had Clare gain "Earth Shaping" abilities that allowed her sculpt out things for herself and her smaller friends. Needed some forged giant weapons so instead of using my Dridder Blacksmith in my pocket? I had my OC Cameron find a Tardek steel sword. I put a cap on that the only he can have something like that though. Everyone else has to make do. Clare's axe? Offworld thing. Do I do that with everyone? Nope! I digress a little, but the point is depending upon how clever or imaginative an author is they are going to find a way to get a "fairy friend" and circumvent the rule altogether.

Shady Knight wrote:

How can you say for sure that objects from other worlds react different to magic?

Somebody does need to explore that hypthosis. It could lead to some amusing results. I mean imagine if there were a material that bounced fairy magic off? Or doubled the effect? Or something that just was indifferent? XD Hilarious!

Shady Knight wrote:

This is once again assuming that fairies are all honky-dory with all species, which I claim is very unlikely as this seems hard to believe.

Actually I believe Fairies are chaotic. It's hard to believe they have a organization at all, but I do believe it's pretty easy to befriend those who are more inclined to settle down like the one's in Kortriki Town than those near the Fairy Pond or other wild places, but not impossible as we saw in Nickinmaerica's "The Man and the Fairy" in FDOR.

Using earth magic to create earthware makes sense, it is a clever use of a power and display intelligence above that of animals. Also, let me ask you a few questions: who is this giant dridder blacksmith? How did s/he learn those skills? Where does s/he finds his/her materials, in particular all the ores? Where did s/he get his/her tools? How are those tools giants? As for the Tedrek sword, how did Cameron know such object exist? How did he know where to look for it? How did he know about the secret passage to the Tomb of Alcazath? Lest you forget, Felaryan Titans are, as of present day, essentially mythological creatures, legends, myths, who apparently are all extinct. Furthermore, I'm assuming this Cameron guy is a human or something similar, how did he carry the sword? Those weapons were no doubt made by titans for titans to fight against the Correctors, and so they would no doubt be gigantic. And if this Cameron is a giant, how did he get in the temple in the first place? I don't disagree with being imaginative and clever, and a little bit of convenience here and there, but there is a big difference between being creative and being lazy. Using earth magic to make items out of clay? That's creative. Having a giant dridder blacksmith with all the stuff I mentioned above? That's lazy.

Also, once again, another bad example. Nick's story of the man and the fairy works because how the friendship came to be was shown and was the core of the story. All the problems of such a weird relationship were addressed. This is how it should be done, not just for fairies, but perhaps for most other species. 90% of the time there's a Fairy Friend, none of that is addressed, the Fairy Friend only exists as a convenience because the writer is too lazy to put the time and effort to come up with something that gets the job done and makes sense.

If the fairy is a deus ex machina and only shows up for a single problem, I could understand, yeah, or if she/he appears only when there's problems. But friendships can be assumed as well.
There are barriers to friendship with fairies, but achieving any of the most common means can be done relatively simple -

Plant a feyweed and wait for a fairy to fall for it, then "save" it.
Boom, friend.

Where do you get the seed for the feyweed? Wouldn't just trying to look for the damn plants put you in the middle of the wild, you know, the insanely dangerous wild with the many giant man-eating plants and animals? Doesn't going out there just to get a plant for the sole purpose of catching ONE creature that you're not even guaranteed to find in the first place sound like too much trouble for all it's worth?

Considering how quickly one could set up a network of friendly predators, I believe it's WELL worth the risk, Shady.
As for the seed? Well, I'd imagine a plant that eliminates an entire threat would be sold at shops in Negav, or brought from caravans heading towards the Fairy Kingdom on months long journeys.


You're assuming everything has to be found in the WILD. Considering the size of Negav, finding things such as feyweed seeds should be relatively simple.

Um, no. No, no, no. First of all, how does a human, you know, a PREY, make a network of friendly predators, you know, the creatures that will make a bee line toward a human to eat him? Furthermore, who in their right mind would go in the fairy kingdom, or bring an entire caravan there? The trip itself would take months, more than enough time for plenty to go wrong in-between, and for what, seeds? Nobody is going to care. Anyone in their right mind would call you insane for even thinking about it and dismiss you entirely. Your entire reasoning is exactly the type of lazy, thoughtless reasoning that this thread wants to address. Felarya is a world where humans are not at the top, but at the bottom. You try and make this whole expedition sound not only easy, but entirely practical and feasible, which is completely at odds with the theme of humans not being at the top of the food chain.

Did I ever, EVER say that it's something that can be possible for every last adventurer?
Thank you for the insult, oh great Shady, but you can stand to think yourself, sometime.
Feyweed is an incredible plant to possess in terms of defense. If a town could take a single plant and breed it, sow seeds within the borders of the town, then fairies are a null threat.
A network of friendly predators? take Nick's comic, which you lovingly referred to. That man - whatever his name was again - is now off limits to every fairy at the pond, even after admitting that he did not mean to save Sebille.
Granted, it's more her innocence that saved his life then and there, but the principle still remains - safety through innocence - trick a fairy into thinking you saved him/her, and befriend it.

"Theme" should not mean "drop in intelligence." Humans are adaptive and will test various strategies. It exists in history and I doubt the Felaryan humans are mentally handicapped.
It's feasible that they'd test the plants as a defensive means, and it's entirely feasible that people would attempt to manipulate fairies through various means - including the feyweed trick.
And stories such as Frenchsnack's has shown expeditions to the Fairy Kingdom. If not a caravan, than large groups.

Even if they don't go into the big bad wild for that exact reasoning, in the event of stumbling upon a feyweed plant, it could easily happen.

I'm sorry if I don't subscribe to your exact thought process.

Let me remind you that Brody was lucky. Extremely lucky. What happened to him is a very unlikely event that can't be reproduced on demand. In the comic, the fairy got careless and was ambushed by two guys. Luckily for him, Brody happened to be around and was able to sneak up on them, taking them both out. It worked for him because circumstances, the fairy being in distress before she spotted him, him being able to sneak attack two armed men, and the fairy who happened to be the kind of person to repay favors, albeit in her own twisted way, aligned in his favor. The next guy who deliberately attempts this probably won't be so lucky. Furthermore, since you like that comic that much, recall that in a following scene, she and her friends hunted down humans with fuzzy beards in an attempt to find him. What did they do to the poor guys that weren't him? They ate them right in front of him. That is why the network of friendly predators is unreliable. Furthermore, fairies tend to hunt in packs. Once you run into more than one fairy, your plan is instantly FUBAR.

As for the feyweeds, lest you forget, they're only effective on fairies. The naga won't be affected at all and won't mind trampling them if it means getting to you. Tracking down very specific types of plants just to create a ring of protection against one type of creature, that may not even be common, is inefficient compared to making the village hidden. Furthermore, even if you think of doing both, wouldn't the massive patch of feyweed around a specific area be suspicious and entice the other predators to investigate?

Quote :

Did I ever, EVER say that it's something that can be possible for every last adventurer?

My intent there was to say that it's rare, or extremely uncommon.


And no, it wouldn't protect against anything but fairies - hence my vocabulary including "One" back there.
But in a world where everything apparently intends to eat or kill you, any defenses against any beings is a must, no?
And it mustn't be out in the open - it's a foolish thing, for sure.
But take Safe Harbor and incorporate the feyweed along with Jora....
Once again, Frenchsnack included a story in which his character was nearly eaten in the night by a fairy, as Jora was unable to spot a tiny bug flying about.
In an instance like Safe Harbor, the feyweed ring would eliminate the last major threat - or at least, the last threat able to effectively sneak in and out, and is common enough to be a "daily danger".
As for random towns described in stories, most are hidden in the first place, and the "ring" doesn't need to be blindingly obvious. It can be a few plants assorted in a random pattern around the town, even a mile out or so. They seem to have a relatively large radius and are capable of consuming plenty of members of fairy packs - as Karbo's art depicts.
It won't help against everything but it would eliminate one, or at least nullify and scare off, a 'common' (relatively given the rarity of encountering sapient preds) predator.

And the fact it's rare and uncommon is what makes it an impractical strategy. If you want to make it viable, you'd have to establish the village around an already existing patch of feyweeds, but that rules out any patch that aren't already near something that you can hide. All I'm saying is that your idea of planting feyweeds to create an artificial barrier is flawed.

Considering that - as you have so eagerly pointed out to me - Felarya is essentially a death world, I think a flawed strategy is better than the alternative of "give up and die for the fetish"

But, yes, it's flawed. Yes, many who try it will fail. But if it works it'll provide defenses that nothing else could.
You wished for better story writing, nothing is ever "all positive" or "all negative" unless it's mediocre/stunted.

I thought that the suggested strategy being flawed would be a given, but I have to expand upon everything, I suppose.

How about just establishing the village somewhere hidden. Yes, that can't provide an ultimate protection, but neither does your artificial barrier. Looking for the plants put people at risk and many attempts would no doubt end in failure, which means the village has less manpower to do other things, like hunt for food. If they happen to run into some, good for them, but going out of your way to hunt for feyweeds would most likely cause more casualties than necessary.

Bottom line: focusing on being hidden and staying hidden is far better than also going out of your way to look for an elusive plant just to offer slightly better protection against only one type of danger, one that isn't very common to begin with.

Now let's drop this pointless tangent.

I was just responding to an unwarranted insult But yes, let's drop this.

You know, in hindsight, maybe I was too much of a hard ass in this thread. I'm sorry for that. That said, I still stick to my stance that handwaves like the Fairy Friend aren't good narrative, and Dark One gave as a good reason why.