Felarya Community Communication

I'm sure you've all read my blog post on the Felarya group. If not, read it now.

Read it? Great. Now, we forumites are presented with a problem.
The problem is multi part and will not be easy to tackle, yet we must try or the gap between the communities of Felarya will grow even wider.
The first part of this problem is one I addressed in part in my group blog post. It is that of views. The forum is very welcoming to people who come along and share the prevailing view here, yet are hostile to people who bring opposing or incorrect views. Some examples of these views are:

• Felarya is a place where I can bring in by kickass character to fight predators one-on-one.
  
• Felarya is a place where giant predators eat silly humans and have vorgies all day. Humans can't fight back.

These are wrong, Felarya isn't that.
These are just examples of views and extreme ones at that, I doubt anyone here really thinks that way. But the point remains, when someone comes to the forum with incorrect pre-conceived notions of what Felarya is like, or what goes on there, they get curb-stomped. At often at least 4 people post on their idea/character bio pointing out exactly what's wrong with it, often written in a way that's not exactly pleasant.
This has to stop.
We have to let people know they're not right without slamming their faces into it.
Do I have to bring up the bad old times when we had real flame wars going because someone posted something bad or even something that was just a little off. We need to learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.
These unification posts here on the Felarya group and here about bring the community back together in to the single entity it was way back when Felarya was a young idea. I know that that state is near impossible to achieve again, however the state the community is in not is not the best possible one. We can have better communication. Do not let the forum be known as a place that newbies try to post on and then get beaten over the head with counter-arguments that can be summed up as: "This idea is wrong, you're wrong."

Second thing; be welcoming. I send a welcome message to every new member on the forum and have been doing so for years.
Cauldronborn24, Aisukaiko, Slimetoad, Salvyrn, Mr Nobody , EdgedWeapon and kaitheguy123 are just some of the members I have welcomed in this time.
Send welcome messages to newcomers, tell them a little bit about what you do in the community, whether it be writer, idea maker or whatever it is. Tell them what you're interested in, what you can help them with. For example, Cauldronborn24 is an excellent source of all things ballistic weaponry and other military equipment.
The key here is communication. A forum is all about communication, yet I don't see as much as there should be. This place needs to be far more welcoming. A new member should get at least 5 welcome messages. Don't leave it to other people, thinking that someone else will welcome them. I can give a reasonable figure that at least 75% of the newcomers who post in the introduction thread post there because I linked them to it in my welcome message. Establish communication, talk to people. When someone needs to know about Jotun, they should know to talk to Jætte_Troll. When someone needs to know about physics, Aethernavale is the man. There are many other people who have specialities, things they are good at that they can help people with. These should be known.


New Members:
To newcomers to the forum reading this: Don't immediately post your ideas. Wait a little while, look around. Make sure nobody has suggest it before you (there is a search function in this forum). When you've been around for a little while, think about your idea again, does it really fit in with Felarya? In the meantime, talk to older members, we're happy to help. Give us time to get you integrated here. Many of our newer members who fitted in well are ones that just watched for a little while. Some people will have to accept that their ideas about Felarya don't quite fit. Don't let it deter you.

Everyone can contribute.

Yes, I copy paste parts of the Welcome message, there's nothing wrong with it, you can do it too. Just don't copy paste all of it.

Why can't we be friends?:

I hope you don't mind if I answer to this topic through quoting you, AJ, since you're making some interesting points and I'd like to comment them.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

The problem is multi part and will not be easy to tackle, yet we must try or the gap between the communities of Felarya will grow even wider.

As I said on the blog post, the sub-communities can still exist, as their distinct features can contribute for the better of the overall community. Still, it's true that the gap is growing wider, but there's time for some unification. And of course, the issues you address have to do with this a lot, and I agree that we must try, even if it looks too hard.

But in a community, everyone has to support everyone, right?

Anime-Junkie wrote:

The first part of this problem is one I addressed in part in my group blog post. It is that of views. The forum is very welcoming to people who come along and share the prevailing view here, yet are hostile to people who bring opposing or incorrect views. Some examples of these views are:

• Felarya is a place where I can bring in by kickass character to fight predators one-on-one.
  
• Felarya is a place where giant predators eat silly humans and have vorgies all day. Humans can't fight back.

These are wrong, Felarya isn't that.

In the beginning it sure was more of a fetish than an actual fantasy world, but we all know Karbo has made it evolve beyond just giant women eating tiny people, and thanks to many contributors and their ideas, Felarya is more than just 'vore and fighting preds'.

Also, some of us aren't interested in the fetish side of Felarya. I got to know Karbo's art by chance - it's a long story I have told many times, you'd be bored to death listening to it again xD - and if I'm here it's because of how Felarya, as a fictional world, has been changing and improving. Some will agree with what it currently is, some won't, but the idea of just showing your overpowered character fighting against hybrid vorish giantesses has become too cliché, in my opinion.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

These are just examples of views and extreme ones at that, I doubt anyone here really thinks that way. But the point remains, when someone comes to the forum with incorrect pre-conceived notions of what Felarya is like, or what goes on there, they get curb-stomped. At often at least 4 people post on their idea/character bio pointing out exactly what's wrong with it, often written in a way that's not exactly pleasant.
This has to stop.
We have to let people know they're not right without slamming their faces into it.
Do I have to bring up the bad old times when we had real flame wars going because someone posted something bad or even something that was just a little off. We need to learn from our mistakes, not repeat them.
These unification posts here on the Felarya group and here about bring the community back together in to the single entity it was way back when Felarya was a young idea. I know that that state is near impossible to achieve again, however the state the community is in not is not the best possible one. We can have better communication. Do not let the forum be known as a place that newbies try to post on and then get beaten over the head with counter-arguments that can be summed up as: "This idea is wrong, you're wrong."

It sure has become a concern lately. I guess it's what you think, the fact some newcomers have a wrong view of what Felarya is and bring ideas that clash with the concept we've been helping to build. And some people are pissed off, taking it too seriously, when this is just a fictional work that has grown not only thanks to its creator, but also because of the community. And communities stay together, and if someone is doing something wrong, you have to tell them and even give some advice. No need to be harsh.

And if we've been harsh, we should be more careful and learn from our mistakes, as you say. We aren't perfect, but that doesn't mean we must repeat our mistakes over and over again.

I always try to be calm and be honest, never trying to hurt anyone's feelings. But if any of you guys see me doing it wrong, let me know.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Second thing; be welcoming. I send a welcome message to every new member on the forum and have been doing so for years. (...)
Send welcome messages to newcomers, tell them a little bit about what you do in the community, whether it be writer, idea maker or whatever it is. Tell them what you're interested in, what you can help them with.

Some of us should visit the introduction topic more often, at least not to make newcomers think no one pays attention. And the idea of telling people what you're good at or what some people might be of help sounds good, although something tells me not many will make use of it.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

The key here is communication. A forum is all about communication, yet I don't see as much as there should be. This place needs to be far more welcoming. A new member should get at least 5 welcome messages. Don't leave it to other people, thinking that someone else will welcome them. I can give a reasonable figure that at least 75% of the newcomers who post in the introduction thread post there because I linked them to it in my welcome message. Establish communication, talk to people.

Good statement there. Although the "at least 5 welcome messages" part sounds a bit awkward for me, I can consider it as a way to remind members of the community to be more talkative with the newcomers. The can't run blind into the forum, that's for sure, and the best they can do is looking for advice from the people already here.

Which takes me to your next point...

Anime-Junkie wrote:

New Members:
To newcomers to the forum reading this: Don't immediately post your ideas. Wait a little while, look around. Make sure nobody has suggest it before you (there is a search function in this forum). When you've been around for a little while, think about your idea again, does it really fit in with Felarya? In the meantime, talk to older members, we're happy to help. Give us time to get you integrated here. Many of our newer members who fitted in well are ones that just watched for a little while. Some people will have to accept that their ideas about Felarya don't quite fit. Don't let it deter you.

Everyone can contribute.

Certainly, older members are the clue for newcomers to get integrated. Knowing the people that is already here and can tell you more of Felarya to help you get the right meaning of the community and the world becomes very useful when thinking of your own ideas. Heck, myself I had to wait before I could create my first character! And it was worth it, as I got time to know the setting and how things work in the forum in particular and in the community in general.

So it's sure that both experienced members and new ones will have to put a lot of effort into this, but even if results won't come immediately, giving steps in the right direction will lead to something better for all of us.

Hum I'm very wary of this notion of correct and incorrect views personnaly.
To me there is no such things except in some extreme cases. The problem - and also what make its flavor - of the universe is it's built on different things.
Ideally it's better to find a balance between them but if you don't, it's fine too in my book. I'm not really in favor of an unique view.

For example if someone want to write vore stories only, that's fine. And if someone want to concentate only on the civilization aspects , that's cool too.

And to me the bottom line is : Whatever someone come with , that person should not be attacked and flamed for it.
You think they made an error somewhere or didn't get a fact right ? well then tell them but *calmly*, not as if the person has commited an unspeakable sin...
There is a fine line between offering blunt but helpful criticism and being outright hostile and rude, which we see more and more lately...

What you've described is really how everything should work in the end ... and well I'll try my best. At least I try to show a little more activity in this Forum ... bashing or telling "Newbies" that their ideas aren#t good wouldn't come to my mind. I really like the ideas you brought up but also like Feardraug said: These sub-groups are normal and it's also on a way good that they exist. And the most important: Most of us are adult persons so we should be able to talk with each other on a civilized and calm niveau, shouldn't we?

I'm not good with introductory stuff and I'm a cynic at heart. While some people may say that it's only the contributor's fault for not being recognized, I see it both ways. The sub-communities also pigeon-hole themselves. Due to having a pretty stiff view of how a story is told, or how a character is structured, I usually stay away from giving criticism, as I tend to be poignant, and speaking in a neutral tone isn't that easy.

I was under the impression that the Felarya Group on dA was the first step toward being more unified, but it instead did nothing, as members of the group would see the stories of the contributors being submitted. However, it didn't help in the slightest, as people either vote without checking, or simply close the window. Very few actually check out the content of the submission.

As far as people coming in with bad ideas from the start, this can also be attibuted with the newcomer itself, being too eager to join or too lazy to do some actual research. While we are all lazy to a point, the fault also come to the old-schooler who give little chance to others. While some are more tolerant than others, a third chance should be awarded after the initial screw ups. But it is indeed true that some people simply won't learn, which justify the fiery temper to a point.

In my opinion, the first priority would be to dissolve the sub-communities centered only around certain contributors, as more often than not, only the same characters and the same artists receive mention, when others are continually left in the dark. This is my biggest problem with this "community": the lack of universal support. Some people people, such as yours truly, receive very little feedback, and while they may have more readers than s/he thinks, it is the presence of various feedback that assure him that more than one person have read the story.

This is not the case here. Some people receive a flood of feedback upon the story or art being submitted, while some receive a fair amount of comments overnight, and others receive some comment every once in a blue moon. This attitude serve only to prove the split nature of this group of people with a common interest: they are only interested in one person and refuse to broaden their horizon. While the fault can't be attributed entirely to them, it is a shame that people who take the lesser used road is left in the dust due to stubborn readers who subsist themselves on only one flavor of material.

While some might say that it is only a matter of time before being found, and patience is a virtue, patience also has its limit, and this lack of attention will of course produce jealousy. A good amount of feedback is also what motivate someone to move on and see mistakes that he couldn't see on his own, and a lack of proper support naturally stunt this necessary progress. If people bothered to leave tap on their keyboards for a few more second and leave comments, this would already be a good step toward a more consolidated community, which is not the case in its present state.

As a newcomer myself to Felarya (as in adding stuff to it since I spent myself mostly looking at Karbo's pictures before I tried my hand at a character), the biggest issue for me is the lack of anything definitive in the world.

There is so much information on here about different species, ideas, fauna, being discussed, but I haven't seen any of this in the wiki. Like the Dryad Reproduction topic. If there isn't anybody to finally go. "Okay, here is the decision" and make things canon, we're just going to continue to talk and talk until we get irritated with each other re-hashing the same theories over and over. (Not that I'm saying that is happening now, I'm just trying to point out something. )

I think that sooner we can get the information of felarya on the same page, the more we can get the fans on the right page.

Karbo wrote:

Hum I'm very wary of this notion of correct and incorrect views personnaly.
To me there is no such things except in some extreme cases. The problem - and also what make its flavor - of the universe is it's built on different things.
Ideally it's better to find a balance between them but if you don't, it's fine too in my book. I'm not really in favor of an unique view.

For example if someone want to write vore stories only, that's fine. And if someone want to concentate only on the civilization aspects , that's cool too.

Well, if it's fine with you, no problems. After all, it's your work people take as a base for their stories and drawings. If you as the creator have no problems with people having cliché'd views of Felarya, good, I'll stand corrected.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I'm not good with introductory stuff and I'm a cynic at heart. While some people may say that it's only the contributor's fault for not being recognized, I see it both ways. The sub-communities also pigeon-hole themselves. Due to having a pretty stiff view of how a story is told, or how a character is structured, I usually stay away from giving criticism, as I tend to be poignant, and speaking in a neutral tone isn't that easy.

That's why it has to be discussed with all parts involved, because all of us are to blame for something.

Sean Okotami wrote:

I was under the impression that the Felarya Group on dA was the first step toward being more unified, but it instead did nothing, as members of the group would see the stories of the contributors being submitted. However, it didn't help in the slightest, as people either vote without checking, or simply close the window. Very few actually check out the content of the submission.

Maybe I should comment more on the stuff submitted for voting, but I take a look at what people want in, and sometimes I have to ponder for some time before I go for the final answer. But anyway, voting blindly isn't a good way either and there's also that people in charge of the votes will have different points of view. And that causes conflict as well.

Sean Okotami wrote:

In my opinion, the first priority would be to dissolve the sub-communities centered only around certain contributors, as more often than not, only the same characters and the same artists receive mention, when others are continually left in the dark.

Not again the whole 'popularity contest' issue, please... I thought this was discussed some time ago and was hoping we wouldn't get to it again. But once again, I say it, this has to be discussed by everyone, even if it has to be once again the 'popularity' problem. And I don't think disolving the groups inside the community will be that easy nor that good. But sure, people need feedback, because many times we think we're on the right path but then are proven that we can do better. Nothing against feedback, in fact, I love it, it's helpful.

And I don't mind being an underdog nor having nothing on the wiki nor... I guess you get my point.

You still cannot deny that issue. In order to be more unified, this trend need to die down, as to show we support each other, people with next to no feedback must receive feedback. The keyword is Support. Support require the help of someone else and some people do not receive this help. This does not show that we're binded by a common interest, but rather sub-groups of people binded by personal views on how the grand scheme of things should be.

Quote :

If there isn't anybody to finally go. "Okay, here is the decision" and make things canon

That's what Karbo does. He's the only one in the community who can declare stuff canon. Ideas are proposed, discussed and debated, and then eventually Karbo will pick and choose what things fit in with his vision for the setting. Its not the fastest process around, but it works fairly well.

@rcs619,

I assumed that Karbo did do that. I guess I haven't been here long enough to see something go from start to finish.

I'm sorry if this comes off as me being petty... But I have to just explain why I've been feeling a little vexed lately.

I've been a part of the Felaryan community since about October of 2010. In these last few weeks, what I've noticed is new people not wanting to hear anything contrary to their views in critiques, and I've noticed some members trying to gather followers while being less than pleasant to anyone that isn't part of their following. Both of these factors breed hostility and I've become a tad sickened by it.

Newbies should understand when they come through the door that they will receive critiques on their ideas and stories, and that the point of critiques is to help them assimilate into the community. Saying everything is fine, is fine but it will lead to division. People should be willing to accept the minimal requirements for making respectable ideas in Felarya, but too often they are not, even when asked politely. I've made some incompatible ideas and characters in the beginning, and may still have a few, but I take the critiques and try to apply them instead of just saying, "Well, I don't agree with that." Why should anyone even bother critiqueing then?

To my point about gathering followers and segregating oneself from the rest of the community, I've noticed that happening and the personal attacks on anyone who doesn't share that view is disgusting. We don't have to share the same interests and opinions to be accepting of each other, rather than carry around a brash gang mentality.

Having said that, I hope anybody that I might have offended with my views since I've been here will accept my apologies and understand that I don't discriminate against others for their views. I also ask that people think for themselves and not be easily swayed in one direction or another on personal views, and opinions on other people.

Sean Okotami wrote:

You still cannot deny that issue. In order to be more unified, this trend need to die down, as to show we support each other, people with next to no feedback must receive feedback. The keyword is Support. Support require the help of someone else and some people do not receive this help. This does not show that we're binded by a common interest, but rather sub-groups of people binded by personal views on how the grand scheme of things should be.

It is more of feding up with going back to the same thing rather than ignoring it. Just that.

Because really, I agree with the support and feedback parts, those are good ways for people to know that someone has taken their time to go through their material (be it ideas, drawings or stories) and tell them what they like and what could use some improvement.

And we are trying to get some union among diverse groups inside the community and take the blindfold off to see what other people's points of view are, and respect them.

gt500x wrote:

I've been a part of the Felaryan community since about October of 2010. In these last few weeks, what I've noticed is new people not wanting to hear anything contrary to their views in critiques, and I've noticed some members trying to gather followers while being less than pleasant to anyone that isn't part of their following. Both of these factors breed hostility and I've become a tad sickened by it.

The first issue I've witnessed it, and it's pretty bad from them like it is bad from us if we act like assholes in those situations... but the second one, sorry, maybe it's because I've been a bit away from the community during the last months, but aside from the 'popularity contest' Sean mentions, I'm afraid I haven't seen anything of some members and their acolytes.

Anyways, let's move on...

gt500x wrote:

Newbies should understand when they come through the door that they will receive critiques on their ideas and stories, and that the point of critiques is to help them assimilate into the community. Saying everything is fine, is fine but it will lead to division. People should be willing to do accept the minimal requirements for making respectable ideas in Felarya, but too often they are not, even when asked politely. I've made some incompatible ideas and characters in the beginning, and may still have a few, but I take the critiques and try to apply them instead of just saying, "Well, I don't agree with that." Why should anyone even bother critiqueing then?

It is important for both sides - newcomers and old members - to behave properly. If a newbie comes with an idea and you tell them "it's rubbish" and the newbie gets pissed off, it can't be (entirely) his fault. However, if you give good advice and the newcomer says "thank you, but I want change anything, even if it contradicts Felarya", then sure the newbie is to blame.

Problem is more of the situation we are evaluating. After all, for now we've been discussing the "old members acting like jerks when some newbie shows a bad idea", but there are more scenarios like the newbie being the jerk.

Now that I think of it, this situation is a bit more complicated than I expected it to be.

gt500x wrote:

To my point about gathering followers and segregating oneself from the rest of the community, I've noticed that happening and the personal attacks on anyone who doesn't share that view is disgusting. We don't have to share the same interests and opinions to be accepting of each other, rather than carry around a brash gang mentality.

Wait, now that you are being more specific, I think I've seen that lately - and I thought I hadn't... - and well, I don't know what to say in the matter aside from the "keep diversity but achieve unity" speech. Really, for this the solution is that we all act like a large community with points in common, just keeping in mind who we are and make us unique.

gt500x wrote:

Having said that, I hope anybody that I might have offended with my views since I've been here will accept my apologies and understand that I don't discriminate against others for their views. I also ask that people think for themselves and not be easily swayed in one direction or another on personal views, and opinions on other people.

No problems from me, I'm sure this can be helpful for giving ideas and opinions on how to improve the Felarya community. We have to work hard for this to keep going well, after all, and all opinions are welcome and discussed.

i disagree a bit with you, MATT, =P talking about your 2 points of what felarya isnt.

i take it for granted everyone knows felarya is a fetish world. Yes? thank you. It's not that felarya isnt the parady giantess and the badass human lands, the thing is: Felarya isnt JUST THAT. what you think will happen in a world saturated with magic filled with huge treasures and such? yeah, powerful mages will come and super armored guys as well. And for the giantess, what you want them to do in their life except chasing all day and sleeping? yeah, they find distraction. sex is a good one because it procures them pleasure.

but like i said, felarya ISNT JUST THAT. though its an aspect of it. for the sex part, just think bout vivian.

thats it for me for now =P i may find other things to say another time

Maybe "Popularity Contest" isn't the proper term for this problem. It's really people who gather in smaller groups of shared interests in one of Felarya's aspects. In theory, that's a good thing, since these sub-groups can focus on something more specific. The problem is the lack of interaction between said sub-groups, and at times, hostility between said groups. It doesn't help that a lot are sheltered like hermits and refuse to check someone who is attempting something new. I admit, if you read my latest stories first, you may wonder what it has to do with Felarya, and unless you read from close to the beginning, you will be lost, which may drive certain people away at first. I think the problem is that people in the community lack courage and can't swallow their pride when they see something lesser used or don't really like.

Well, then it's not a 'popularity contest' like I said, I stand corrected. So in the end, it's back to the sub-communities and the interaction between them.

This is how it should work.

I really try to help the community, since I oversaw this forum's creation from netcode for a website. And I just hate the thought of potential newcomers being chased off due to some grumpy veterans.

I really hope I'm doing my part, and I apologize if I slip up.

Karbo wrote:

Hum I'm very wary of this notion of correct and incorrect views personnaly.
To me there is no such things except in some extreme cases. The problem - and also what make its flavor - of the universe is it's built on different things.
Ideally it's better to find a balance between them but if you don't, it's fine too in my book. I'm not really in favor of an unique view.

For example if someone want to write vore stories only, that's fine. And if someone want to concentate only on the civilization aspects , that's cool too.

And to me the bottom line is : Whatever someone come with , that person should not be attacked and flamed for it.
You think they made an error somewhere or didn't get a fact right ? well then tell them but *calmly*, not as if the person has commited an unspeakable sin...
There is a fine line between offering blunt but helpful criticism and being outright hostile and rude, which we see more and more lately...

Now, I'll say this carefully to avoid flaming... but I want to clarify.

Few people will criticize someone purely for making stories focused on vore. That's up to the writer and the readers to do what they enjoy.

Where I have heard grumblings, wether justified or not, is where characters that seem to be designed solely for vore, with little or unpleasant characterization, are given preference over well developed and likable characters who, for whatever reason, engage in little or no vore. This is worst when it comes to the very touchy issue of canon.

Now, I am not saying this is totally true. But this thread is about bringing the community together. And I am pointing this out as something I fear is a factor threatening unity and stability and is dividing members into "camps" as they feel threatened, bitter or frustrated.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that too. This one is touchy. On one hand, I don't hate vore stories per se. Ravana's On The Hunt series is great for your voraphiliac's urges. However, some people pass gratuitous vore for plot, and some people try to defend characters who are, in essence, mean-spirited and unlikable. Controversial opinion (Maybe): Eka somehow made an art of unlikable characters being popular only because they satisfy someone's fetish. I won't put any names to avoid creating sparks.

good idea to avoid names mister shady

Jætte_Troll wrote:

Where I have heard grumblings, wether justified or not, is where characters that seem to be designed solely for vore, with little or unpleasant characterization, are given preference over well developed and likable characters who, for whatever reason, engage in little or no vore. This is worst when it comes to the very touchy issue of canon.

Now, I am not saying this is totally true. But this thread is about bringing the community together. And I am pointing this out as something I fear is a factor threatening unity and stability and is dividing members into "camps" as they feel threatened, bitter or frustrated.

This. A thousand times this. There's no denying it's a touchy subject but it really causes a lot of trouble most of the time

Krisexy26 wrote:

i disagree a bit with you, MATT, =P

OI!

Krisexy26 wrote:

talking about your 2 points of what felarya isnt.

i take it for granted everyone knows felarya is a fetish world. Yes? thank you. It's not that felarya isnt the parady giantess and the badass human lands, the thing is: Felarya isnt JUST THAT. what you think will happen in a world saturated with magic filled with huge treasures and such? yeah, powerful mages will come and super armored guys as well. And for the giantess, what you want them to do in their life except chasing all day and sleeping? yeah, they find distraction. sex is a good one because it procures them pleasure.

but like i said, felarya ISNT JUST THAT. though its an aspect of it. for the sex part, just think bout vivian.

thats it for me for now =P i may find other things to say another time

It took a minute for me to figure out exactly what you're saying. It's not that I disagree, it's that you misunderstood what I was saying in the first place.
Felarya does get powerful mages and high tech soldiers.
The giantesse do eat humans.
I am not denoying that, but if you look at what I was saying initially:

• Felarya is a place where I can bring in by kickass character to fight predators one-on-one.
  
• Felarya is a place where giant predators eat silly humans and have vorgies all day. Humans can't fight back.

In the first point I meant those ridiculously overpowered characters who can kill predators in one or two hits.
In the second point, I mean a) humans can't fight back. and b) predators eat almost nothing but humans.
Those are obviously wrong. Humans can fight back, they aren't helpless or stupid. Humans aren't the main part of a giant predator's diet.

Sean Okotami wrote:

In my opinion, the first priority would be to dissolve the sub-communities centered only around certain contributors, as more often than not, only the same characters and the same artists receive mention, when others are continually left in the dark. This is my biggest problem with this "community": the lack of universal support. Some people people, such as yours truly, receive very little feedback, and while they may have more readers than s/he thinks, it is the presence of various feedback that assure him that more than one person have read the story.

This is not the case here. Some people receive a flood of feedback upon the story or art being submitted, while some receive a fair amount of comments overnight, and others receive some comment every once in a blue moon. This attitude serve only to prove the split nature of this group of people with a common interest: they are only interested in one person and refuse to broaden their horizon. While the fault can't be attributed entirely to them, it is a shame that people who take the lesser used road is left in the dust due to stubborn readers who subsist themselves on only one flavor of material.

While some might say that it is only a matter of time before being found, and patience is a virtue, patience also has its limit, and this lack of attention will of course produce jealousy. A good amount of feedback is also what motivate someone to move on and see mistakes that he couldn't see on his own, and a lack of proper support naturally stunt this necessary progress. If people bothered to leave tap on their keyboards for a few more second and leave comments, this would already be a good step toward a more consolidated community, which is not the case in its present state.

You speak to my soul, sir!

I have the same problem. I try to contribute, and I even take time to do as much research and painstaking detail as possible and still for all my efforts only one or two regular people comment on my work and maybe once in a while I get feedback from a new guy, but then that's it. It's frustrating as a writer, but even more frustrating is the fact that "artwork" seems to attract more attention than "literature." I know exactly why this is, too. It's far easier and faster to take in a picture than it is to take time out of one's busy day to read a story, even a short story. I get that. But after a while I have been feeling more and more inadequate because of lack of support and I feel as though I came late to the party, so to speak. I feel that if I had just discovered this phenomenon a few years earlier I could be as famous and well-known as "WowandWas," "Zoekin," "RCS619," "Randomdude678," and "kikijohnson." Just to name a few.

Karbo, God bless him, comments on my work; And it's gratifying to hear support from the original creator. But it's just about the only thing that keeps me going lately and even then I'm starting to lose confidence, energy, and enthusiasm... three factors that are essential to creating art IMO. I know it's something I need to do too. Some days I just need to get on Deviantart and go around and comment on people's work or "fave" it. I'm doing it more lately because I feel that by doing this I can get my name and my avatar out there a little bit more and maybe some people will reciprocate me. At least that's my hope.

Quote :

Those are obviously wrong. Humans can fight back, they aren't helpless or stupid. Humans aren't the main part of a giant predator's diet.

Just going to repeat this because its honestly something that a LOT of people tend to forget, overlook or just not know.

It is perfectly possible to fight, hold off and/or kill a predator with the right equipment. Look at the Isolon Fist, that is one of the things they train to do, and they are fairly good at it. Granted, they are just one group though...and a focus on stealth is a whole lot better option for the average person (yes, hiding would work. The 'predator sense' is only limited to Nagas and Fairies now, and it is nowhere near 100% accurate).

Also, the second point is so, so important. It has been stated on the forum, and confirmed by even Karbo on several occaisions. There are not millions of humans running around in the jungle all the time. Humans are nowhere near a main part of a predator's diet because of that. Humans are a semi-rare treat that preds occaisionally happen across, kind of like the predator equivalent of a cookie. Most of their diet is made up of smaller animals, fruit, fish and other such things.

The fact is, Felarya is not really a vore-fetish world anymore. It hasn't been for a good year and a half. It has grown as a setting, thanks to the contributions of all the people on the forum, a few of the people on DA, and to Karbo's own new ideas for the setting. If you want to get good idea of the tone of Felarya, you just need to look at the mangas. They don't have all that much vore in them, and what vore there is ends up being integrated into the story, adding an extra sense of alienness and danger to the setting.

Now, does this mean someone can't write a vore-centric story, or focus on vore-centric art? Of course not. Vore still happens, and some people are going to choose to focus more on that aspect. With the right effort, vore stories can even be relatively good. Its all about how it is handled.

But I no longer think the "fetish world" tag applies to this setting and continuing to think of it in that regard does a great disservice to the setting, and to the hard work that a lot of us have put into fleshing it out. Felarya is a predominantly fantasy-themed setting (with a hint of sci-fi), filled with extreme danger, that can have a vorish element depending on the circumstances. I know its a bit long of a description, but I think its a more accurate one. I think part of the friction in the community arises because a lot of people, primarily the non-forum crowd, has not realized that yet.

your comments arent too long to be bored of it and not too short to miss important words. congrats mister CLIFF! (im learning people names woohoo! XD)

but yeah, the basis of felarya was the vore thing (correct me if im wrong). and its kinda hard to...delete a basis =P but yeah you convinced me properly

rcs619 wrote:

Quote :

Those are obviously wrong. Humans can fight back, they aren't helpless or stupid. Humans aren't the main part of a giant predator's diet.

Just going to repeat this because its honestly something that a LOT of people tend to forget, overlook or just not know.

It is perfectly possible to fight, hold off and/or kill a predator with the right equipment. Look at the Isolon Fist, that is one of the things they train to do, and they are fairly good at it. Granted, they are just one group though...and a focus on stealth is a whole lot better option for the average person (yes, hiding would work. The 'predator sense' is only limited to Nagas and Fairies now, and it is nowhere near 100% accurate).

Also, the second point is so, so important. It has been stated on the forum, and confirmed by even Karbo on several occaisions. There are not millions of humans running around in the jungle all the time. Humans are nowhere near a main part of a predator's diet because of that. Humans are a semi-rare treat that preds occaisionally happen across, kind of like the predator equivalent of a cookie. Most of their diet is made up of smaller animals, fruit, fish and other such things.

The fact is, Felarya is not really a vore-fetish world anymore. It hasn't been for a good year and a half. It has grown as a setting, thanks to the contributions of all the people on the forum, a few of the people on DA, and to Karbo's own new ideas for the setting. If you want to get good idea of the tone of Felarya, you just need to look at the mangas. They don't have all that much vore in them, and what vore there is ends up being integrated into the story, adding an extra sense of alienness and danger to the setting.

Now, does this mean someone can't write a vore-centric story, or focus on vore-centric art? Of course not. Vore still happens, and some people are going to choose to focus more on that aspect. With the right effort, vore stories can even be relatively good. Its all about how it is handled.

But I no longer think the "fetish world" tag applies to this setting and continuing to think of it in that regard does a great disservice to the setting, and to the hard work that a lot of us have put into fleshing it out. Felarya is a predominantly fantasy-themed setting (with a hint of sci-fi), filled with extreme danger, that can have a vorish element depending on the circumstances. I know its a bit long of a description, but I think its a more accurate one. I think part of the friction in the community arises because a lot of people, primarily the non-forum crowd, has not realized that yet.

Well, like you said, there's no problem in someone writing a story that is just vore. The issue comes up when people confuse that with "plot."

Look at it this way - vore is a fetish. A fetish is attaching sexual arousal to something that is not necessarily directly sex. But it is still the same feeling. I may get flamed over this - but a highly detailed vore scene is equivalent to a sex scene.

The thing is sex scenes are not a bad thing! Lots of fantasy and sci-fi books have them, some to a great degree.

The problem comes when a story is mostly just vore. That's like writing one long sex scene. Again, there is nothing wrong with doing this. Erotica is a viable form of literature. BUT by doing this, you create erotica with a fantasy backdrop as opposed to fantasy with some sex scenes thrown in - two very different things, both viable, but different.

The problem here is erotica usually doesn't lend itself to lots of character development - that could, in some cases, even hold it back!

Now, where most of the grumblings I've heard come from, is characters who are mainly erotica characters, due to appealing to this fetish, get more attention than characters designed for a fantasy story, sex scenes or no. Imagine any serious fantasy character, where a bio of them spent more time discussing their sex life than attributes. Imagine if a wiki-character had more description of how she ate humans, than actual personality!

Putting sex scenes in fantasy, (or, vore scenes, for Felarya fantasy stories) is a fine thing, but there should be something else there, for it to be beyond an erotica story and an actual fantasy story, if you want it to be regarded as a fantasy story.

I'm not pointing fingers - I am laying out a complaint that has been deeply rooted for a long time. Felaryan Erotica is entirely viable as a stand-alone thing and the characters are perfectly fine as instruments to this. But for a developing, complex and living world? I'm not so certain. Normally this is a mostly theoretical argument, until it sails into the treacherous waters of canon and community. Then it gets very hard to handle.