Felarya/Negav Calendar

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i just dont want it to be one two and three because its ugly and, for me, doesnt at all represent the negavian population.

It isn't supposed to represent the Negavian population. The Magiocrats don't care about them enough for that. The only people who's opinions would weigh on their decisions would be the traders, and merchants and businessmen that have made Negav one of the biggest trade-hubs in the multi-verse. They only care about the common Negavians enough to ensure that they are never angry enough to revolt or anything.

Keeping the system strictly numerical keeps it simple. It keeps it consistant, and unchanging. Look at how dates work on Earth. Each nation has its own names for the months, but in airports, and any places with a lot of different kinds of people, they always display the date just using the dd/mm/yy number system. Words can be mixed around, numbers don't change.

Don't assume that this is strictly how they do it just because that's how you think. Remember that Karbo has the final word on it.

airports are international, negav is just one dam city.

you should stop acting like if you knew everything about whats happening in the head of the magiocrats, and come back to life. as an human, do you prefer numeric dates or named dates?

even the worst tyran can show compassion to their population. ussr one day gave the world most beautiful and useful metro ever.

and youre simplicity is making the thing complicated, by the way.

Has anyone suggested starting small and working up? Seconds, minutes, and hours? Or does taht all very in Felarya, too?

we're kinda at the point to know how much hours in a day in felarya, and what goes after.

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airports are international, negav is just one dam city.

Negav not only has people from dozens of different worlds constantly going in and out of it, it has people from different regions on those worlds coming and going as well. It is international and interplanetary.

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do you prefer numeric dates or named dates?

I prefer numeric dates myself. That is what most people use these days anyway, since they are so much easier to write. I don't know many people that write out the whole months anymore.

You really look like someone who want to monopolize the idea i had to make it in your own terms. every thing i say, you have a word agaisnt.

what if i decide now to disagree with the whole sequence and cycle thing? just like that, right now. because there is no obvious cycle in felarya.

i say that naming cycles is better than not naming them because humans are humans and, wherever the damn place they come from, they name everything, and simply putting cycle 1 2 3 4 5 6 looks empty and boring. we use numbers to do maths and temperatures and scores and i dont know what else. we use the dd-mm-yy thing because its simplier for people on earth to see what date it is, thats it. in their own city, in their house, they use a calendar like the one i have in my kitchen, just not in the same language.

now tell me what is wrong again with that? "its not simple, does not represent the reality"?

I'd personally go with JT's idea. Since he already made a pretty decent one, I figure there's no point in reinventing the wheel.

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You really look like someone who want to monopolize the idea i had to make it in your own terms. every thing i say, you have a word agaisnt.

That's called debating. Point and counter-point. That is how the forum works, someone proposes an idea, and everyone picks at it from a bunch of different angles to help refine it and make it better.

Also, the idea belongs to all of us. You started the original discussion, and then me, you, Aisu and the people in the chatbox refined the structure of it. All Im doing is defending my position on the why I think naming system of the calender should work.

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we use the dd-mm-yy thing because its simplier for people on earth to see what date it is

Thank you for proving my point for me.

In an international situation, we use numbers because they are simple, they are constant, and they prevent confusion. Negav is very much an international city. It is like the port and trade cities of old. There is a native population, but there is also a very large foreign population that is just there to trade, or buy rare goods, or use the city as a rest stop before moving on somewhere else.

Keep in mind, this isn't the only calender in Felarya. It is exclusive to Negav. Different city-states (which is basically what the major cities in Felarya are) will have different calenders, unique to themselves.

I think what Krisexy is trying to say is that going just by number is pretty bland, and that if you think of actual names, it give the setting its own flavor. Sure, we could settle for just 21st of 4th cycle of 2068 AU, but I think if we go that extra mile and put some actual month numbers, then it's going to give Negav its own unique feel, since we can all stop at just plain numbers, but we need to be a bit more creative for cycle names.

Alternatively, since it's the Magiocrats who're currently running the asylum, they could use the same calendar as wherever they come from.

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Thank you for proving my point for me

i dont think i proved your point. i half-agreed. the dd-mm-yy is simplier than simple, which make it child-looking. we're not in a debate here, we're in a forum, ill let you go check in the dictionary whats the difference between them both. youre positon, as far as i see it, is "magiocrats are that that and that so they wont do it like this". even if the magiocrats wouldnt be like that, from an outside-felarya point of view, like me and everyone on the forum, itll look originality-lacking. are we creative or not?

and since negav have a great influence on felarya, i wouldnt be surprised to see a negavian calendar in a neko village, here and there.

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we're not in a debate here, we're in a forum, ill let you go check in the dictionary whats the difference between them both

Definition of FORUM
- A public meeting place for open discussion

Definition of DEBATE
- A regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

You're right, we aren't in a debate. You can't be in a debate. You CAN be in a forum though, which is a place where debates happen.

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and since negav have a great influence on felarya, i wouldnt be surprised to see a negavian calendar in a neko village, here and there.

No. The distances on Felarya are vast, and there are no real means of long-distance communications. The only people that will know about Negav are the ones in it, near it (Nekomura and the Dridder forest), and Harpies who fly past it. To everyone else, Negav is pretty much a myth, if they've even heard of it at all.

open discussion doesnt mean debate

and be creative a bit, many explorers pass by negav to go in felarya

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and be creative a bit, many explorers pass by negav to go in felarya

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

If you mean that explorers are going out and spreading word of Negav to those living in the jungle, I highly doubt it. Explorers go off into the jungle, sure...but the chances of them finding one of the many small, hidden settlements within it is almost nill. The jungle is vast, and any settlements are tucked out of the way and well-hid. It isn't like there's a big map with every settlement in Felarya on it. That is part of the reason why the jungle is so dangerous...besides a few major landmarks, it is largely unmapped outside of the near-Negav area.

Would a settlement or two have heard about Negav from a random traveller that came across them? Probably here and there. Negav is so far away though, that it may as well be mythical. No one from that villiage is ever going to be able to get there.

The main reason you wouldn't see calenders in jungle settlements is the same reason you wouldn't see preds using them. The people of that settlement are likely native-born Felaryans, which means that they are going to be illiterate, and have no need for a calender. Like the preds, the only time-keeping they would care about is what time in the day it is.

Cliff, I hate to say it, but I agree with Sean and Krisexy.

Humans by nature love to name things they own. In any given language there are also terms that people easily come up with that will mean what they want. Like in Japanese when one person's name means something, or like in French, where names form phrases (ex: Adam LaFontaine would mean "man of the fountain").

Also, by just saying "here's our three measurements, and these are our numbers" is something that, if you were given a homework assignment to create a calendear, and all you submitted were a bunch of numbers... the best grade I can imagine would be a "C" average grade. Humans LOVE creativity, that's how our cultures will become so different. Our calendars are no exception.

As for the prefixes, I can agree with Aisu, I would personally come up with new letter combinations for prefixes and suffixes, or find something symbolic. Status, power, wealth all play important roles, and the magiocrats undoubtedly also come from different worlds themselves. I think they would want to name months to show off a sample of their own culture.

there could be two suffixes, one for the first half of the year, and the other for the later half. Here are some random letter-words I made up as possible candidates for them:

imija
ajein
oza
ilren
elidra
(insert a magiocrats name that starts with a vowel here, or any famous mage)
elbeln (in honor of archmage talbeln)

Those are just some ideas. Feel free to do as you wish.

I'm gonna add to my compromise measure.

On Earth, months have names, but we also know them by numbers, as Cliff said, so why can't we do the same? We can have names, but for ease, numbers can be used. I don't get why we need t argue for one or the other, when we can do both...

thank you bael

now we just need karbo's agreement for the cycle sequence thing to move on to the details.

and aisu, the thing is that cliff does not want to name the months because itll make things too complicated and will not represent the reality of felarya, and blabla

No. That sort of thing is called an "abbreviation". I do not wish to sound snide, but formally a month would be named, but written down on paper on an application for a job, putting "11-20-97" (felaryan system so far) is the abbreviation for what the calendar's numeric values are.

China for exmaple goes so far as to name their YEARS. and on top of that, they have Dynasties. That just goes to show how elaborate humans love to make their calendars, even for a profit-based society such as China.

well the french republicain calendar was going as far as naming days

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Humans LOVE creativity, that's how our cultures will become so different. Our calendars are no exception.

HUMANS are creative. Politicians, beaurocrats and businessmen are not. They just focus on making things that work.

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and the magiocrats undoubtedly also come from different worlds themselves

I doubt that. A couple probably do, but I imagine most are native Felaryans. Keep in mind, several members of the Magiocrat council have been around since the fall under Micolon's rule, back before Negav was the bustling trade-hub it is now. Also, Felarya is one of the most magically saturated places in the multi-verse, it only makes sense that some of the most powerful mages in said multi-verse should come from there.

Just look how closely the Magiocrats and their Investigators watch and police the mages of Negav. They are a very exclusive group, and they do not like the idea of other powerful mages potentially challenging them, or causing trouble. This makes me think the likelyhood of a foreigner rising up and joining their ranks is pretty small. Its probably akin to how Voidfingers has managed to become an Isolon Fist Battlemage, despite being a Neko. Probably a long, difficult process with a lot of predjudice along the way (personally, I think that is why Void acts so humanlike. He's altered his habits to better fit in).

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HUMANS are creative. Politicians, beaurocrats and businessmen are not.

So politicians, bureaucrats and businessmen are not human?

Cliff, by this point, you are using the same argument over and over. You do not sound like you're pitching ideas, but rather that you're just too obstinate about how you believe your own view is the right one, and refuse to acknowledge other ideas as viable.

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HUMANS are creative. Politicians, beaurocrats and businessmen are not.
So politicians, bureaucrats and businessmen are not human?

Cliff, by this point, you are using the same argument over and over. You do not sound like you're pitching ideas, but rather that you're just too obstinate about how you believe your own view is the right one, and refuse to acknowledge other ideas as viable.

for now, with what i see, youre the only one sharing your point of view.

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Archmage_Bael wrote:

Humans LOVE creativity, that's how our cultures will become so different. Our calendars are no exception.

rcs619 wrote:

HUMANS are creative. Politicians, beaurocrats and businessmen are not. They just focus on making things that work.

yes, you just contradicted yourself. Politicians and the like are humans. They're sapient.

That's all I really need to say. My point has been proven with my post a little ways back. Where one comes from doesn't affect the fact that they still have culture.

Siiigh, since it looks like this argument is devolving into namecalling and shit like that, I vote we either put it to a vote or wait for Karbo to make a verdict. This is getting nowhere...

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Cliff, by this point, you are using the same argument over and over. You do not sound like you're pitching ideas, but rather that you're just too obstinate about how you believe your own view is the right one, and refuse to acknowledge other ideas as viable.

Im explaining why my idea IS right, when you take in the culture of the Magiocrats, the business they run, and the nature of what is one of the most diverse cities in the multiverse. Im not saying that other ideas aren't viable, Im just saying that what is being proposed doesn't make sense when you look at the people who would be making this calender.

Either way, if you guys really don't want to listen, you better find another structure besides Cycles and Sequences to use. I didn't put forth an idea to have it butchered.

I'll just have to put it up as a counterpoint to whatever the rest of you come up with. At least I'll get to have fun and dissect all of you guys' ideas about why the Magiocrats would have a big, overly complex calender.