On the Ur-Sagol and Negav Gates

So, how do the ones Negav and Ur-Sagol Dimensional gates work?
(Not now do they function, that's a mystery. How the functions manifest themselves are how they work.)

As far as I know, this hasn't been worked out, at least not to any extent. It seems like there are a few ideas floating around out there. Let's hear them.

I'm not going to post my own yet, I'd rather just get this thread off the ground and see everyone else's before I post my own.

EDIT:
Yes, I edited this so it's solely about the Ur-Sagol and Negav gate since they deserve their own discussion.

I had posted my own ideas for the existing dimensional gates and a new type called Hex Gates in my idea thread, but the idea is in story form and could actually benefit from being critiqued. This is actually a good opportunity to get that done. Since the version in my idea thread is in story form, I'll have to post a more clear and concise version of it here (later today when I have time to type it).

Due to recent filling of some empty wiki entries (namely the Correctors) I will be scrapping a lot of the ideas that I came up with. I'm open to apply any of those ideas for the Hex Gates to the existing dimensional gates if anyone likes them.

Edit: I won't be posting a brief description here afterall.

One thing to remember I suppose is origin. The Negav gate I'm not sure about, but the Sagolian gate was an old Corrector artifact the Sagolians dug up and got working again.

I can't remember the particulars, but the Sagolian one has some specifics in how it works, right?

Jætte_Troll wrote:

One thing to remember I suppose is origin. The Negav gate I'm not sure about, but the Sagolian gate was an old Corrector artifact the Sagolians dug up and got working again.

I can't remember the particulars, but the Sagolian one has some specifics in how it works, right?

Yeah, I always had the impression that the Negavian gate was a copy, or an imitation of the Ur-Sagol gate. Maybe descendants of the Ur-Sagolians errected it after they fled to the region that eventually became Negav.

Hmmm... a very good question...

Personally, I'm against what RCS said in the Q&A thread, that the Ur-Sagolian gate is only one way.

From what's been included on the Wiki, such as Mhurr's Souvenirs Shop and the Orb Tower that shoot lightning in order to "dissuade a great predator from simply laying down, mouth wide open against the gate", I would say that it is possible to connect to the Great Dimensional Gate from somewhere else.

Therefore, it's a possibility that every portal network has some means of establishing a link with it, allowing trade with civilisations normally inaccessible to Negav.
Of course, discovering how exactly to connect to it is probably an issue.

As for why things like the Felarya Express choose to use the Negav=Ur-Sagol route instead of using the Negav gate to link with the Ur-Sagolian one, I'm guessing it's because use of Negav's gate is heavly regulated by the Magiocrates, who probably charge for use of the portal by the second.

Good thread idea is good.

To be honest, the fact that the great dimentional gate can automatically connect anyone to any portal is just a little too convenient, but that's neither here or there.

Personally, I can't think of any reason why that when the DGD 'hacks' into an existing portal, it should allow you to go back as well, even beyond the obvious 'balance' issues of such a thing. Maybe I just watched too much Stargate, where none of the portals were two-way.

Maybe short-range portals (like Voidfingers uses) are two-way affairs, while the big, super long-range mega-gates are either 'incoming' or 'outgoing'. Most could obviously perform both functions, but not at the same time.

My main ulterior motive here is that I'd rather it wasn't too easy to travel back and forth between Negav and Ur-Sagol, because then Ur-Sagol would be crawling with adventurers (ruin of a super-advanced civilization potentially packed with priceless treasure, and an easy transit? Heck, I'd be tempted to take a crack at it), and it might kinda spoil the 'ancient mysterious undisturbed ruin' atmosphere. It's already easy to get back to Negav from there thanks to the gate, so I imagine it's a desirable treasure hunting spot. No return trip would have to be a big deal in Felarya.

Mmmh, I dunno, my brain is on the fritz tonight, so feel free to ignore my random ramblings.

If the Ur-Sagolians are fleshed out more, we might get a better explanation of how they work.

A pity they all had to die out in some cataclysmic disaster.

Quote :

My main ulterior motive here is that I'd rather it wasn't too easy to travel back and forth between Negav and Ur-Sagol, because then Ur-Sagol would be crawling with adventurers

Keep in mind, the Magiocrats control the operation of the Negavian dimensional gate. Its primary goal is offworld trade, and keeping Negav connected to all of the dozens of worlds it is allied with. I really doubt they are going to take the time to connect it to some dead, ruined city, instead of one of their offworld partners (Unless its some sort of official Magiocrat/Isolon Fist expedition). They'd probably consider it a waste of time.

You'd still need to get to Ur-Sagol the long way, but if you make it you could, in theory, use the Ur-Sagol dimensional gate for a quick shortcut back to Negav. The trip to Ur-sagol is still going to take weeks, or even over a month, considering how far away it is, and there will certainly be plenty of danger along the way.

That is assuming you'd even survive. Ur-Sagol is kind of a death-trap now, with how Frenchsnack and other writers have lumped their characters around it. You're better off going to other ruins that aren't camped constantly.

I used the Negav Gate to get to Ur-Sagol in a story. Notice a patern yet?

Actually, I imagine when a gate is erected, someone has to plug in the coordinates in order for the gate to even take someone somewhere. Otherwise it will be a random chance of where you'll come out. Or even more appropriately, it's like an undefined variable in a programming language.

The gate in Ur-Sagol hasn't been tampered with in that regard since the days of when the city was still around in all it's glory. If anything, I think the trip would be one way from Negav to Ur-Sagol. As I see it, people could have gotten the Negav gate to warp people to the Ur-Sagol one, but since no one could "redefine" those variables in the Ur-Sagol gate, once you go there, you'd be forced to walk back to Negav, as going back through the same portal would probably take you a different place.

Getting there's the easy part, coming home is a bigger issue.

rcs619 wrote:

Keep in mind, the Magiocrats control the operation of the Negavian dimensional gate. Its primary goal is offworld trade, and keeping Negav connected to all of the dozens of worlds it is allied with. I really doubt they are going to take the time to connect it to some dead, ruined city, instead of one of their offworld partners (Unless its some sort of official Magiocrat/Isolon Fist expedition). They'd probably consider it a waste of time.

You'd still need to get to Ur-Sagol the long way, but if you make it you could, in theory, use the Ur-Sagol dimensional gate for a quick shortcut back to Negav. The trip to Ur-sagol is still going to take weeks, or even over a month, considering how far away it is, and there will certainly be plenty of danger along the way.

And then you'd have to explain to a battalion of Vishmitals and Fists each why you interrupted off-world gate traffic for a measly handful of adventurers, before having to pay a hefty fine for unauthorised gate usage.

Note: This makes far more sense if you read my treatise on how dimensional gates work, since this is based on the assumption that that is how they work.

Since the Great Dimensional Gate at Ur-Sagol disregards limits to acquire connection, it does hack into a secure network by forcing the exit gate to accept the connection. But that connection will be one way, because the exit gate will be resisting the connection due to the the Ur-Sagol gate not being part of its limited network.

Normal gates (that aren't part of a limited network) would be able to hold a two way connection from the Ur-Sagol gate, assuming that it wasn't interrupting or breaking an existing connection to some other gate. Why should this be so? Because gates must be made to hold incoming connections, unless it's a gate that's been limited to only accepting connections from certain other gates or it's an outgoing-only gate.

Operation: (Note that this part is just a response to some people claiming that the Ur-Sagol gate is too “easy”)

To operate the gate at Ur-Sagol you simply think of your destination. But how easy is it to just think of one thing? Having a clear mind isn't exactly easy, especially considering that any adventurer using it would also have their mind on whatever treasure they may have found or some danger they have escaped. It's entirely possible that one could have their mind so preoccupied with treasure, riches or some other thing that the Ur-Sagol gate instead sets their exit portal to something similar. Instead of walking out of the Negav portal, they could end up walking out into a top secret bank vault (where they would be persecuted), an abandoned tomb (which is required to be full of traps) or some other, similarly undesirable location.
Just because something sounds easy doesn't mean it is. A band of adventurers or treasure seekers planning to use the Ur-Sagol portal should take along a mage, monk or someone else trained to clear their mind.

That's why you can't rush it. The gate teaches people patience and having a clear mind.

Though personally, I'm not a fan of it "forcing" the connection to accept it. That seems a little plot-hack-ish. There should be some connections that can't be hacked.

rcs619 wrote:

That is assuming you'd even survive. Ur-Sagol is kind of a death-trap now, with how Frenchsnack and other writers have lumped their characters around it. You're better off going to other ruins that aren't camped constantly.

The zone was always supposed to be dangerous, without Jissy around or not. It' kind of like Supprozad or basically every other ruins in Felarya.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

the Sagolian gate was an old Corrector artifact the Sagolians dug up and got working again.

Err that's not true, sorry ^^;

As I see it the Negav gate is mostly a regular gate that works in a pretty normal way. It's just a big.

Karbo wrote:

rcs619 wrote:

That is assuming you'd even survive. Ur-Sagol is kind of a death-trap now, with how Frenchsnack and other writers have lumped their characters around it. You're better off going to other ruins that aren't camped constantly.

The zone was always supposed to be dangerous, without Jissy around or not. It' kind of like Supprozad or basically every other ruins in Felarya.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

the Sagolian gate was an old Corrector artifact the Sagolians dug up and got working again.

Err that's not true, sorry ^^;

As I see it the Negav gate is mostly a regular gate that works in a pretty normal way. It's just a big.

Where did the Sagolians get their gate then? The wiki states that the gate is older than Ur-Sagol.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

Karbo wrote:

rcs619 wrote:

That is assuming you'd even survive. Ur-Sagol is kind of a death-trap now, with how Frenchsnack and other writers have lumped their characters around it. You're better off going to other ruins that aren't camped constantly.

The zone was always supposed to be dangerous, without Jissy around or not. It' kind of like Supprozad or basically every other ruins in Felarya.

Jætte_Troll wrote:

the Sagolian gate was an old Corrector artifact the Sagolians dug up and got working again.

Err that's not true, sorry ^^;

As I see it the Negav gate is mostly a regular gate that works in a pretty normal way. It's just a big.

Where did the Sagolians get their gate then? The wiki states that the gate is older than Ur-Sagol.

Yeah, I always assumed it was a leftover Corrector artifact, which explains why it is so powerful.

As for the Negavian gate, I assumed it was either...
A: Another leftover that the sagolians found in disrepair when they fled to the negav area and were taken in by the Nekos. They tried to repair it, but couldn't get it completely fixed, which is why it has limitations when compared to the Ur-Sagol gate.

or

B: A copy of the Ur-Sagol gate, made by Sagolian refugees when they fled to the negav area. It is less powerful because its just a copy, and with less advanced technology and an inferior power-source.

*note: This is going by Jeatte's timeline. In said timeline, Nekos settled the area where Negav now stands. They took in Ur-Sagolian refugees that fled south after the city was destroyed. This explains why a Neko king ruled Negav prior to the Great destruction.

Well that's the same point as for the giant elves being artificial beings.

Those are nice ideas, that *could* work. But regardless, they are only assumtions and not established facts and should not be presented as such as it could induce people in believing they are.