Fairy magic, and a way to help out preds

I've been looking at Felarya stuff for a while now, and I've come to notice something. There are many giant predators, ranging from Nagas to even a few Dryads, who have an interest in Human goods. The main example for this is Anna, and her addiction to cigarettes. I've also seen a few stories and comics where Anna is in possession of a cigarette. Well, I've been thinking and I'm pretty sure I have a way that would provide those predators with the items they want through the use of Faries.

Now, from what I've seen of Fairy size changing magic, and correct me if I'm wrong here, a Fairy can change the size of other people, herself, and objects. An example of this would be Fairies who wear clothing, carry items, and other such things. So why hasn't anyone thought of using the Fairies size changing magic to alter the size of items a giant predator might want? For instance, a pack of cigarettes and a lighter for Anna. It wouldn't be that hard either. Most predators have at least one Fairy friend, and they have access to the Humans and Nekos that have the items they want.

Good question. You're not the first to think of it, though. In a story I once had Anna receive a packet of cigarettes from a human, and say she'd get a fairy to make them bigger for her.

Bear in mind, though, that fairies cannot permanently alter something's size.

I had those thoughts for Kyria and Seelvee, since the later, a dryad, loves to read the books of soon-to-be-prey... and of course, due to her size, she needs some her from her mute fairy friend. Never featured in a story since I haven't had the chance for so, but always had that thought.

But as FS says, you have to take in account that size-changing magic isn't permanent. Anyways, the closer the fairy stays, the longer the spell will last, but don't think of it as something that will last forever, maybe the fairy should re-cast the spell even if she isn't too far from the altered object/person.

I believe the issue comes from the fact that a lot of stories are not considered canon, which stories as such would no doubt fall into. Another issue is the rarity of fairies. Contrary to popular belief, fairies are rarely encountered, unless you go to places such as the Forest of Whispers or the Misty Glade, where they are fairly common. Yet another problem, and this is my cynicism speaking, is that fairies are not selfless souls to anything that has a pair of bug wings or are above 50 ft tall. Their personalities are very varied, something which no one ever touches about, just like every irrelevant writers refuse to portray Vivian as anything other than a slut, and as such, might need a reason to even tamper with an inanimate object's size.

On a unrelated note, I find the clause that fairies need to be close for a size-shift to be a quite silly limitation. I realize I am the first guy to come explain why some magic shenanigans could work, but wouldn't this mean that they emit some sort of magic field that amplify size-shifting? And by extension, wouldn't that mean that in order to alter the size of anything, it would be at its most effective in close proximity?

Your ability to ignore the disclaimer "on an unrelated note", meaning that this is just me rambling and that you shouldn't take this as the new subject, is quite simply awe-inspiring. But, since you desire to bring this train off its rails, then if simple contact is all that matters, explain to me, without proximity being a factor in any shape or form, how a fairy being closer to something she made bigger/smaller make it keep its modified size over a lengthier period of time?

Shady Knight wrote:

Your ability to ignore the disclaimer "on an unrelated note", meaning that this is just me rambling and that you shouldn't take this as the new subject, is quite simply awe-inspiring.

Cool it. If you make a comment on the forum, people are entitled to respond. If you wouldn't want anyone to reply, because you think it's off-topic, just don't make it in the first place.

Shady Knight wrote:

Your ability to ignore the disclaimer "on an unrelated note", meaning that this is just me rambling and that you shouldn't take this as the new subject, is quite simply awe-inspiring. But, since you desire to bring this train off its rails, then if simple contact is all that matters, explain to me, without proximity being a factor in any shape or form, how a fairy being closer to something she made bigger/smaller make it keep its modified size over a lengthier period of time?

Quote :

Fairies have no problem with growing their own clothes and equipment with them when they feel like roaming around at giant size but, sometimes, they want to share items with a non-fairy giant friend as well. However, when an object is "grown" by a fairy and is relinquished, it will be subject to effects of imperfect dimensional scaling. If not on direct contact of a fairy person, that upscaled object will obtain some amount of dimensional instability, eventually "popping" back to its original size.

Direct quote from the wiki. When the object is not in contact with the fairy, it becomes unstable. Be it an inch or a thousand feet.
Also, it was in response to what Feadraug said too, not just your post.

French snack wrote:

Good question. You're not the first to think of it, though. In a story I once had Anna receive a packet of cigarettes from a human, and say she'd get a fairy to make them bigger for her.

Bear in mind, though, that fairies cannot permanently alter something's size.

Yeah, I figured I wasn't the first to come up with it. Hmmm....I wonder if it would be possible to mix a size altering spell with a permanency spell...neither spell is that difficult to cast, and it wouldn't take long to do. Guess it would be up to the Fairy in question.

Shady Knight wrote:

Contrary to popular belief, fairies are rarely encountered, unless you go to places such as the Forest of Whispers or the Misty Glade, where they are fairly common.Yet another problem, and this is my cynicism speaking, is that fairies are not selfless souls to anything that has a pair of bug wings or are above 50 ft tall.

I realize I am the first guy to come explain why some magic shenanigans could work, but wouldn't this mean that they emit some sort of magic field that amplify size-shifting? And by extension, wouldn't that mean that in order to alter the size of anything, it would be at its most effective in close proximity?

Yeah,those points would cause a crimp in that idea. However, despite a Fairy's natural selfish nature, they do seem willing to help a good friend. And most of the predator OCs I find seem to have at least one Fairy friend, despite their being rare. I doubt the Fairies would ever start some kind of service, but I can easily see them helping out a friend, provided a friend asked them to.

I can actually see a Fairy naturally creating a sort of magic field around them, possibly without them even noticing. Fairies are naturally...for lack of better description, steeped in magic. Even a comparatively weak Fairy can be a far more accomplished spell caster then a Human. I would expect this closeness to magic would have an effect other then just being able to cast spells easier.

Feadraug wrote:

the closer the fairy stays, the longer the spell will last

You wrote:

When the object is not in contact with the fairy, it becomes unstable.

We have a contradiction. The quote you lifted from the wiki does not disprove Feadraug's statement. It does not mention proximity, but no mention doesn't mean that it's not the case. It merely says that it will pop back to its original size EVENTUALLY. The key word here is "eventually", meaning that it occurs after an undetermined amount of time, and that said undetermined time period could be longer or shorter depending on the proximity of the caster fairy, which the quote does not explicitly debunks.

As for you, Nergal, your statement of a comparatively weak fairy being a far more accomplished spellcaster than a seasoned wizard is a logical fallacy. It is the equivalent of saying that a neko who never trained in its life would beat the olympic athlete human in a competition of agility every single time. I remind you that fairies are indeed natural born magic users than humans, but only on average. Not all fairies follow a life of using supernatural forces as its weapon and many in-fact favor physical might, which would result in their magic being weaker than the aged human sorcerer.

Really, the main thing this whole issue depends on is how Fairy magic actually works.

When a fairy changes a person's size, that person has to remain within a certain distance of her in order for the fairy to maintain the spell. For example, if a fairy shrunk a group of adventurers and one of them managed to sneak away and hide, he'd eventually return to normal when the fairy leaves and the spell wears off.

Now, I don't believe if it's been said how this affects inanimate objects. One could argue that the reason the spell needs to be maintained on living things, specifically people, is because every living thing possess a magical field and that magical field provides some resistance, no matter how small, to the spells of another. If we go by this thought process, then inanimate objects might not have such a magical field, and spells would not degrade when cast on them and left alone. This could, in theory, allow for the permanent up-scaling of inanimate objects.

However the biggest problem with this for me, personally, is an issue of balance. Being able to scale up food, or cigarettes, or clothing/jewelry/accessories is one thing. But imagine if fairies began up-scaling technology, weapons, armor, tools, and so on. One could, potentially, get their random giant pred any kind of random useful object via a fairy. From a world-balance standpoint, it's a ticking time-bomb.

Just my two-cents on the matter anyway.

Quote :

Even a comparatively weak Fairy can be a far more accomplished spell caster then a Human

Also, this is inaccurate. On a relative scale (both individuals being the same size), fairies are simply more magically-inclined than the average human. Learning magic, and performing more powerful spells comes easier to them, and they are able to learn things quicker. That doesn't mean they will always be more powerful than a human of the same size, especially when talking about the highly trained and educated mages of Negav. Even with the fairies' access to ancient books and tomes on magic, they are still going to be less formally educated than the mages of Negav, who trained and learned in a very strict, structured, school-like environment.

Then explain to me why they can alter the size of humans without making physical contacts. As a reminder, the wiki states that humans who live in Felarya gains a degree of magical resistance, due to the water they drink, and magical resistance is one of the factors that make size altering more difficult. Mundane objects would more than likely have a very weak, if not, entirely non-existent magic resistance, yet this requires direct contact. This seems to be rather contradictory, as the more difficult and larger target can be done from a distance, while non-living material needs to make contact. I can see you think that this means that fairies need to make contact with a prey in order to shrink it, but why is this crucial information lacking, and how this can be an effective for hunting?

Shady Knight wrote:

Then explain to me why they can alter the size of humans without making physical contacts. As a reminder, the wiki states that humans who live in Felarya gains a degree of magical resistance, due to the water they drink, and magical resistance is one of the factors that make size altering more difficult. Mundane objects would more than likely have a very weak, if not, entirely non-existent magic resistance, yet this requires direct contact. This seems to be rather contradictory, as the more difficult and larger target can be done from a distance, while non-living material needs to make contact. I can see you think that this means that fairies need to make contact with a prey in order to shrink it, but why is this crucial information lacking, and how this can be an effective for hunting?

Direct physical contact has never been required. Even in the mangas, it shows fairies able to shrink things without touching them. They can't like, shrink someone or something from a mile away, but I've never heard it implied by anyone that they had to be directly touching them. I do believe the range on shrinking magic is relatively short though, like direct line of sight.

That wasn't aimed at you, you just happened to post before I got the chance to submit that.

I then ask you why this would be a different matter when the principle is the same? Also, in case you have not noticed already, the quote from the wiki uses clothes and equipment as an example, objects that one is WEARING. It simply explains how when a fairy alter its own size, why the clothes wouldn't tear or fall off in the process. It doesn't say that if they want to make this pebble the size of a boulder, it must be holding it.

Shady Knight wrote:

I then ask you why this would be a different matter when the principle is the same?

I don't know. I just ask you then, why not? Living beings are different than objects where certain types of magic are involved.

Shady Knight wrote:

Also, in case you have not noticed already, the quote from the wiki uses clothes and equipment as an example, objects that one is WEARING. It simply explains how when a fairy alter its own size, why the clothes wouldn't tear or fall off in the process. It doesn't say that if they want to make this pebble the size of a boulder, it must be holding it.

Quote :

However, when an object is "grown" by a fairy and is relinquished, it will be subject to effects of imperfect dimensional scaling.

I think I get the feeling that the fairy needs to touch the object from this sentence. It says that after the object is "grown" it is relinquished to the pred that wanted the object. The relinquished part strikes me as a requisite, therefore implying that the fairy has to touch the object and change sizes with it, not just grow it wherever it is. Of course, I may be misinterpretting things.

Wow, didn't know a simple comment I made about what I supposed the whole 'changing the size of an object' worked would end up becoming... this. I just supposed there had to be a proximity issue there because I've read somewhere - no, not the wiki - that a human who ended shrunk and managed to stay away from the fairy would eventually turn back to normal... supposed the same could be said about any object, without thinking of the magic field.

Anyway, this wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong... Didn't see the part on the wiki about the contact, but reading it, I see it as "what the fairy is wearing/holding" and besides, they don't need to touch anything/anyone to use their magic on them, right? As long as it isn't too far, that's it.

Hmmm...It didn't post my reply...must have hit the wrong button. Curse being a forum noob. XD

Shady Knight wrote:

As for you, Nergal, your statement of a comparatively weak fairy being a far more accomplished spellcaster than a seasoned wizard is a logical fallacy.

rcs619 wrote:

Also, this is inaccurate. On a relative scale (both individuals being the same size), fairies are simply more magically-inclined than the average human. Learning magic, and performing more powerful spells comes easier to them, and they are able to learn things quicker. That doesn't mean they will always be more powerful than a human of the same size, especially when talking about the highly trained and educated mages of Negav. Even with the fairies' access to ancient books and tomes on magic, they are still going to be less formally educated than the mages of Negav, who trained and learned in a very strict, structured, school-like environment.

Well I didn't mean a seasoned wizard or anything. A Human Wizard can surpass a Fairy simply because the Human, or really any other species that studies magic, works harder at learning their craft. I meant something along the lines of a level 1 Human wizard vs. a level 1 fairy. Then even the slightly weaker then average fairy is going to have an easier time with their spells then the Human, simply because magic comes easier for them. That's not to say the Human would lose, but the fairy would, normally, have the magical advantage.

rcs619 wrote:

However the biggest problem with this for me, personally, is an issue of balance. Being able to scale up food, or cigarettes, or clothing/jewelry/accessories is one thing. But imagine if fairies began up-scaling technology, weapons, armor, tools, and so on. One could, potentially, get their random giant pred any kind of random useful object via a fairy. From a world-balance standpoint, it's a ticking time-bomb.

I actually don't think there's as big a danger of this happening as you might think. First off, from what I've seen most predators aren't very interested in technology, and are not good at using it. Even if a predator, let's say a giant Naga, got their hands on a gun, they wouldn't have it for very long. First off, they would run out of ammo pretty quickly if they decided to keep and use it. I think it's safe to assume that any discarded weapons that are still able to work would have been used in a vain attempt to protect the old owner from something. So the weapon would probably be out of or low on ammo. Even if it wasn't, a predator wouldn't know how to clean and care for a gun. Therefore it would likely become useless after a time. As for swords and other weapons that don't require ammo, there are already a few ways a predator can get a hold of these.

As for tools or other high tech devices, most of those need to be charged or require electricity to use in the first place. And normally you can't just cast a Lightning Bolt spell at the item in question without destroying the item. These might last a day or two at most, if the predator figures out how to turn it on, and might provide some entertainment. But once the charge on it is gone, the item is useless.

I would utilize the quote function, but considering Ilceren brilliantly chose a color that would make quote illesible, I can't do it, but that's beside the point. The simple answer is simplicity. Something that is simple is far more accessible, would you not think? Adding a clause that "it works differently for inanimate objects" would add no depth and be completely arbitrary. The statement that a fairy must hold the object, then change size along with it would makes no sense in light of official material depicting fairies altering the size of humans, a more difficult task than doing the same on an inanimate object, without requiring physical contact. Also, keep in mind that Karbo is the one writing these entries, and since English is not his native language, there is a good chance that he fumbled the actual meaning of that quote, hence why he made a thread asking which entries need to be rewritten, ergo made clearer.

Simplicity doesn't seem to work very much in Felarya, but well, I will let that go for once. And I agree with you about the wiki and Karbo, I'll have to learn not to read too deep into what's written. It's because I'm used to doing so in the other setting I know, Type-Moon, so it's become a habit.

Also, I could start a rant about the astonishingly perfect colours that were chosen for post background and quote background, but I'll refrain.

Feadraug wrote:

I just supposed there had to be a proximity issue there because I've read somewhere - no, not the wiki - that a human who ended shrunk and managed to stay away from the fairy would eventually turn back to normal... supposed the same could be said about any object, without thinking of the magic field.

It is in fact stated at the wiki:

Quote :

Moreover, altering the size of another creature is only temporary and if the target, say an adventurer that has been shrunken, manage to get far enough from the fairy, they will eventually pop back to their original size. That range can varies widely from one fairy to another.

But as I said, I thought it was just intended for living beings.

I think the last messages in this thread made me a bit confused. xD Anyway, the thing is that even if you don't think simplicity isn't the best for Felarya, take in account that there's already some complexity for magic in this world, being more than "it's magic, no explanations needed, deal with it!". I think the whole size-shifting magic is complex enough for not being too cheesy and overpowered.

Actually, that quote is not crystal clear either. It can easily be be interpreted as "if an adventurer was shrunken and manages to get far enough from the fairy that he's safe from her, he will eventually return to normal size, as she won't be able to use her magic to keep him miniaturized. The duration widely varies from fairy to another, as some are more skilled than others."