Alright, everyone, let's make some magic!

Zion please don't start talking about your intellectual discussions and definately leave out hot pokers in ass

Grave has his own opinion which is different from yours

Spoiler:

Jew wrote:

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Spoilers are broken.
Edit: They work now.

Anime-Junkie wrote:

Jew wrote:

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Spoilers are broken.

YOU RUINED THE SURPRISE

Jew wrote:

Zion please don't start talking about your intellectual discussions and definately leave out hot pokers in ass

Grave has his own opinion which is different from yours

Spoiler:

Sorry. I've been frustrated, is all.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm tired of people making these damn assumptions.

ZionAtriedes wrote:

We're just trying to create a basic model for how it works.

Sounds like rules.

Grave wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

We're just trying to create a basic model for how it works.

Sounds like rules.

More like "explanation".

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Grave wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

We're just trying to create a basic model for how it works.

Sounds like rules.

More like "explanation".

An explanation is a set of statements constructed to describe a set of facts which clarifies the causes, context, and consequences of those facts.

This description may establish rules or laws, and may clarify the existing ones in relation to any objects, or phenomena examined. The components of an explanation can be implicit, and be interwoven with one another.

~ wikipedia

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Grave wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

We're just trying to create a basic model for how it works.

Sounds like rules.

More like "explanation".

To avoid Godmodding and contradictions in canon. God even the magic systems of the Ars goetia, Egyptian and Greek magic, Ars Magna, Agrippa, Honorius, and the 13th to 18th century grimoires have set guidelines. Any practitioner of magic that doesn't follow them better prepare for his/her karma and that in Felarya is especially bad consequence-wise. Without a frame of reference where would you be in anything? That's what this is about, setting the bloody guidelines. Okay done.

Quote :

An explanation is a set of statements constructed to describe a set of facts which clarifies the causes, context, and consequences of those facts.

This description may establish rules or laws, and may clarify the existing ones in relation to any objects, or phenomena examined. The components of an explanation can be implicit, and be interwoven with one another.

~ wikipedia

Heh Wiki attack

Running Scared wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

Grave wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

We're just trying to create a basic model for how it works.

Sounds like rules.

More like "explanation".

To avoid Godmodding and contradictions in canon. God even the magic systems of the Ars goetia, Egyptian and Greek magic, Ars Magna, Agrippa, Honorius, and the 13th to 18th century grimoires have set guidelines. Any practitioner of magic that doesn't follow them better prepare for his/her karma and that in Felarya is especially bad consequence-wise. Without a frame of reference where would you be in anything? That's what this is about, setting the bloody guidelines. Okay done.

Quote :

An explanation is a set of statements constructed to describe a set of facts which clarifies the causes, context, and consequences of those facts.

This description may establish rules or laws, and may clarify the existing ones in relation to any objects, or phenomena examined. The components of an explanation can be implicit, and be interwoven with one another.

~ wikipedia

Heh Wiki attack

Who really wants to have to follow guidelines?

Grave wrote:

Who really wants to have to follow guidelines?

To find ways around them after you understand them. Without them it'll be too easy. Be creative.

Besides it's up to Karbo on what is and isn't okay magic-wise regardless of anything we can do.

Running Scared wrote:

Besides it's up to Karbo on what is and isn't okay magic-wise regardless of anything we can do.

Bingo.

People who like to have a structured story, like it or not everything has rules or structure; even chaos. Of course if you feel this to be too limiting feel free to write a story without them, but as this is a community and with every one having their own ideas it is a good idea to have a basic structure in order to keep things running smoothly.

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

People who like to have a structured story, like it or not everything has rules or structure; even chaos. Of course if you feel this to be too limiting feel free to write a story without them, but as this is a community and with every one having their own ideas it is a good idea to have a basic structure in order to keep things running smoothly.

Wait, I thought we were talking about magic here?

Grave wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

People who like to have a structured story, like it or not everything has rules or structure; even chaos. Of course if you feel this to be too limiting feel free to write a story without them, but as this is a community and with every one having their own ideas it is a good idea to have a basic structure in order to keep things running smoothly.

Wait, I thought we were talking about magic here?

I am, after all this thread is about magic. I'm just looking at things on a broader sense.

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

Grave wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

People who like to have a structured story, like it or not everything has rules or structure; even chaos. Of course if you feel this to be too limiting feel free to write a story without them, but as this is a community and with every one having their own ideas it is a good idea to have a basic structure in order to keep things running smoothly.

Wait, I thought we were talking about magic here?

I am, after all this thread is about magic. I'm just looking at things on a broader sense.

Thank you Yes we need to look at the broader scope of magic as well as specific types of magic that are in Felarya. One question I have is that people have described certain forms of magics in detail but what about the merging of science and magic? Using applied magic to normally purely scientifically based creations(Like the idea of using magic to power electronics). Then again some "scientific" inventions of various races may require magic to function in the first place(Though I haven't seen anything of this sort yet). But anyway we do need to take a broad look at magic so it can encompass existing stories and have some definite structure for future ones to use as a basic foundation.

Running Scared wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

Grave wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

People who like to have a structured story, like it or not everything has rules or structure; even chaos. Of course if you feel this to be too limiting feel free to write a story without them, but as this is a community and with every one having their own ideas it is a good idea to have a basic structure in order to keep things running smoothly.

Wait, I thought we were talking about magic here?

I am, after all this thread is about magic. I'm just looking at things on a broader sense.

Thank you Yes we need to look at the broader scope of magic as well as specific types of magic that are in Felarya. One question I have is that people have described certain forms of magics in detail but what about the merging of science and magic? Using applied magic to normally purely scientifically based creations(Like the idea of using magic to power electronics). Then again some "scientific" inventions of various races may require magic to function in the first place(Though I haven't seen anything of this sort yet). But anyway we do need to take a broad look at magic so it can encompass existing stories and have some definite structure for future ones to use as a basic foundation.

If we want to seriously do this then I recommend we look at how magic is used in a wide range of stories (and the manga) and use this to construct a working model that encompasses all of them. This would be a large undertaking, something that would require more than one person. However I believe the end result would definitely be worth it.

Grave wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

We're just trying to create a basic model for how it works.

Sounds like rules.

Please read this very carefully, because I will NOT repeat it.

We're not making rules. This is a discussion thread, to make questions and offer opinions in response. Any models we arrive to are merely empyrical, so to speak, and do not involve new rules for you or anyone to retroactively break. We know that magic doesn't have to always make sense, can we pretend it does?

In our defense, we're having fun.

I think what's happening is that you're trying to set up a general ballpark for how magic works.

Which is just how I'd love to see it. It isn't restrictive, but you can't fly everywhere you want without pulling a foul.

Stabs wrote:

Grave wrote:

ZionAtriedes wrote:

We're just trying to create a basic model for how it works.

Sounds like rules.

Please read this very carefully, because I will NOT repeat it.

We're not making rules. This is a discussion thread, to make questions and offer opinions in response. Any models we arrive to are merely empyrical, so to speak, and do not involve new rules for you or anyone to retroactively break. We know that magic doesn't have to always make sense, can we pretend it does?

In our defense, we're having fun.

In my defense, so am I.

Grave wrote:

In my defense, so am I.

Indeed however when an individual's idea of having fun pretty much involves trampling on everyone else; either with uber magic, uber characters etc. it usually results in a backlash, not to say that you were going to make that mistake.

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

Grave wrote:

In my defense, so am I.

Indeed however when an individual's idea of having fun pretty much involves trampling on everyone else; either with uber magic, uber characters etc. it usually results in a backlash, not to say that you were going to make that mistake.

Nothing is unbeatable. Why would you have to make rules to keep such things from being made?

Grave wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

Grave wrote:

In my defense, so am I.

Indeed however when an individual's idea of having fun pretty much involves trampling on everyone else; either with uber magic, uber characters etc. it usually results in a backlash, not to say that you were going to make that mistake.

Nothing is unbeatable. Why would you have to make rules to keep such things from being made?

To avoid situations where people like you just want to fight or use Felarya as a proving ground.

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

To avoid situations where people like you just want to fight or use Felarya as a proving ground.

Grave, do not answer!

Cauldron, that was unjustified! Grave here has written more poetry than UPCs. He's not got a problem with "nerfing" magic, quick and dirty, he's got a problem with quantifying and qualifying it, same as I did before I changed my mind.

Grave, read my first post. There are things we're doing and things we're not. We're trying to find common ground, not make rules.

Stabs wrote:

CauldronBorn24 wrote:

To avoid situations where people like you just want to fight or use Felarya as a proving ground.

Grave, do not answer!

Cauldron, that was unjustified! Grave here has written more poetry than UPCs. He's not got a problem with "nerfing" magic, quick and dirty, he's got a problem with quantifying and qualifying it, same as I did before I changed my mind.

Grave, read my first post. There are things we're doing and things we're not. We're trying to find common ground, not make rules.

Thank you. To find the common ground for Felaryan magic as well as the if and general how of outsider/offworlder magic will work is the point of this. If we didn't have any guidelines there would be undead running wild everywhere without the no necromancing rule/guideline(Tanya may be cool but she's a exception). Besides, death wouldn't have it's edge as it would as it does now if people kept coming back. Though, there's ways to get around that rule/guideline. We just need to clarify the limits for the writers(I wonder how a offworld necromancer would react to felarya if he/she was suddenly dropped there without any knowledge of the place. Be more creative than said necromancer raising a army of eaten adventurer corpses to try the old and used dominate the world plot on felarya.)

This basically is to give ideas for Karbo to adopt for canon. It's up to Karbo on all of this. Be creative. Be civil. And relax. Internet flamewars and whatnot are pointless to the original intent of the topic(unless it's a troll). Let's try to set up a even playing field, magically speaking. Magic may be less predictable as science it still has formulated rules like in "real-world" alchemy and in the Ars Goetia style magic that Aleister Crowley used. Though, that doesn't mean there's a jotun-sized rulebook, the "chaos" magics and these old school medieval magic and wicca revivalist movements aren't what you call set in stone in how every group worships their god(s)/goddess(es) and practice magic. Even the "hard" magics like alchemy and the Aleister Crowley type magics that have more rules are really more guidelines than exact rules. Magic is PERSONAL, more unique a practitioner is while understanding the basics is more powerful than a in-the-box mage, in spiritual, creative, and magical terms. Like in anything the more open minded person often will be more creative than the narrow minded one.

Running Scared wrote:

Magic is PERSONAL, more unique a practitioner is while understanding the basics is more powerful than a in-the-box mage, in spiritual, creative, and magical terms. Like in anything the more open minded person often will be more creative than the narrow minded one.

And thus it is when writing stories that involve magic.

Therefore, we do not want to be too close-minded when setting the guidelines as then we are restricting ourselves and others, but being too liberal just leads to the guidelines being so weak that they might as well not be there at all.